Clarity and Missed Opportunities

[BluesPower]

You have really gotten some great advice from a lot of good people.

 

So, the affair, you seem to be thinking pretty clearly about what is really going on. And, you realize that your OM is really just meeting your emotional needs and that plus the affair are pulling you together.

 

The folks on your thread have been really kind and gentle with you and I really think that is a good thing in a lot of situations.

 

You and I are very different types of people and yet there are some similarities.

 

Before I get into that though, you realize that you have to end the affair ASAP. Then work on your BF and see if you can get that relationship going the right way. Also, be aware that you will, sometimes, invent things to be resentful or unpleased with your BF simply because you are having an affair. So you always have to be aware of that as well.

 

But honestly, your R with you BF really seems pretty good from what you describe. You really should focus on that and get it working for the long term.

 

Now about the affection thing, and the emotional thing as well. With me, I actually just realized the my primary love language is tough and affection. With my STBXW, our life was in such a crisis with her hidden drug use and other issues, I never realized it. My main GF is totally affectionate, she is also one of my former AP's, turns out that she is the one that helped me realize what my needs actually were.

 

I tell you this because if you stay in your primary R, you have to help him realize how big of a need that this is for you. Or, you will continue to be vulnerable to me who are affectionate, like your OM.

 

Understand that your BF, like you, has intimacy issues, emotional and physical. Not physical as in sex, but emotional and physical intimacy.

 

You are both going to have to work on these issues individually and together. If you put the work in your primary R will blossom, but it will be very hard for your BF because he does not even realize the strong need that you have for physical and emotional intimacy. He actually does not understand what you are saying to him when you try to talk about it with him. Some people have rejected it in their lives because they did not receive it in their childhood and the only way they could accept this need not being met was to belittle it or pretend that it does not exist.

 

This is where you BF is with this stuff, and it will take a good amount of work to break through this mindset.

 

I wish you luck with everything...

[Beautywithin]

Can i just say i know exactly how you feel i had a EA with a co worker and it turned my life upside down....

 

it all ended last summer ( very sudden no explanation ) he ignored me for 6 months until we finally chatted again in December i needed some closure to fully move on and i got that in the end... the 6 months he never spoke to me literally killed me bit by bit inside, having to see him every day, listening to him laughin and talking was hard, like you i often got moments when i heard him talking about his family and i new i'd never be part of that....

 

fast forward nearly 8 months later and its got a little easier, we say hello every now and again but that is it... i still get times my mind takes me back to " this time last year"

 

for me personally it has changed me as a person, made me question a lot of things.... we are fools for allowing yourself to get into something like this.... because 99% of the time.. we are the ones who will end up feeling destroyed.

 

I am currently looking for another job as much as i can get on with things a lot easier.... he will always be there.. i will always feel something for him...

 

No doubt the next few weeks/months will be tough for you.... but please stay strong... just remember the outcome with this other guy would never be a pleasant one

 

((( hugs )))

 

xx

Edited February 20, 2017 by Beautywithin

[BourneWicked]

I don't know yet. I definitely don't think the whole package exists in real life like it can feel in an affair, due to limerance and the intensity of feelings in an affair. Nothing in real life can compete with that. It sounds like you know that too

 

My AP and I blew up our lives, nuclear detonation style. An accident obviously. But it did give us a chance to try being together. It's been a year or so now, and things are really really good and easy and natural. Thank god, because the rest of our lives were a mess there for a while.

 

In your case, with a kid in the mix....I'd really try to reconnect with your boyfriend and see if you two can forge a deeper emotional connection through your mutual hobbies. Talk to him about your desire for affection. It doesn't sound like things are too far gone.

 

Good luck! This life is a tricky thing isn't it.

 

Birdies -Ah yes! Life sure is tricky.

 

I wish the best for your relationship. I'm curious how it will work out for you down the road. That's the thing with affairs.. sometimes it's a flash in the pan, and sometimes it's gold. I think there really is a strong connection, similar interests, like, maybe love? But at points in our lives where to even give it a shot would mean so much chaos for everyone involved. Nuclear detonation style - great way to phrase it, and that's without two families involved.

 

So I think that is ultimately why I posted here in the first place.

 

I could just go on, blissfully eating my cake, but I recognize how horrible the fallout of being discovered would be.

 

Feels like society has sold me an image of love that is completely wrong, and frankly, I want my money back.

 

I'm lucky that my boyfriend is as great as he is, since got here by limerence in the first place. We got here by me being high off him, enjoying his company and that great physical connection, and now I'm waking up from that 8 years later.

 

Really... it's scary. I've never made a conscious decision to be with someone. Historically, from my first couple relationships at 19, it's gone, "okay, I'm single. why not."

 

Three years later, I'm in a sexless relationship and I surface to, "hmm... well, he's blond and funny, body like a Greek god (haha yes I said that to one of my gfs one over a cocktail and I still think that ). I like both of those things" (my now boyfriend)

 

And eight years later with a little stress from having a toddler and a mini midlife crisis, "gosh doesn't he have a way with words. he's clever, funny, and gorgeous."

 

So my sad point is I've never consciously made a decision to get into a relationship. I've never said "wow I've known him for years and he's amazing. We have the same interests, and both want to paint pictures and travel Europe when we retire (or whatever). Yes." I've just said, 'eh okay,' and let the chemicals do the rest.

 

It's terrifying. Is this how we all live?

 

Definitely planning on focusing on my primary relationship. The sort of life and family I can give my child by doing a little work is what I only dreamed of as a kid.

[BourneWicked]

Wow, that was a really thoughtful post, Bourne. I can see the work you are doing on yourself. The self reflection is going to serve you well. I wish I had been as thoughtful when trying to extricate myself from my A.

 

Have you read Glass' entire book, Not Just Friends? It was a life changer for my husband and myself. We both engaged in affairs (mine was decades ago, my H's much more recent). The book explained so much. It definitely helped the healing process and it gave us a lot to think about as we recovered. Your example of the the way he touched your back is something close to what happened in both of our situations. That was not an accidental touch. You realize that, right?

 

 

Appreciate your feedback. I will absolutely give this book a read. Yes... I know the touch wasn't accidental whatsoever. I also know I let my own boundaries appear a little shady to let that happen. Although I don't think he's a serial cheater, I do think he puts himself in these situations frequently. Long days, late nights, , fatigue, and close company make opportunities. It made me realize how important it is to be conscious of these things - and to be honest with myself about my own feelings about people! When you lie to yourself, you're creating a chink in your own armor.

[BourneWicked]

You have really gotten some great advice from a lot of good people.

 

So, the affair, you seem to be thinking pretty clearly about what is really going on. And, you realize that your OM is really just meeting your emotional needs and that plus the affair are pulling you together.

 

The folks on your thread have been really kind and gentle with you and I really think that is a good thing in a lot of situations.

 

You and I are very different types of people and yet there are some similarities.

 

Before I get into that though, you realize that you have to end the affair ASAP. Then work on your BF and see if you can get that relationship going the right way. Also, be aware that you will, sometimes, invent things to be resentful or unpleased with your BF simply because you are having an affair. So you always have to be aware of that as well.

 

But honestly, your R with you BF really seems pretty good from what you describe. You really should focus on that and get it working for the long term.

 

Now about the affection thing, and the emotional thing as well. With me, I actually just realized the my primary love language is tough and affection. With my STBXW, our life was in such a crisis with her hidden drug use and other issues, I never realized it. My main GF is totally affectionate, she is also one of my former AP's, turns out that she is the one that helped me realize what my needs actually were.

 

I tell you this because if you stay in your primary R, you have to help him realize how big of a need that this is for you. Or, you will continue to be vulnerable to me who are affectionate, like your OM.

 

Understand that your BF, like you, has intimacy issues, emotional and physical. Not physical as in sex, but emotional and physical intimacy.

You are both going to have to work on these issues individually and together. If you put the work in your primary R will blossom, but it will be very hard for your BF because he does not even realize the strong need that you have for physical and emotional intimacy. He actually does not understand what you are saying to him when you try to talk about it with him. Some people have rejected it in their lives because they did not receive it in their childhood and the only way they could accept this need not being met was to belittle it or pretend that it does not exist.

 

This is where you BF is with this stuff, and it will take a good amount of work to break through this mindset.

 

I wish you luck with everything...

 

 

Thanks so much. So many good things in here.

 

Yes... the OM is meeting my emotional needs. I do appreciate that you recognize the importance of touch. I am, and have always been a very physical person. My bf is the same... but for him, sex is enough to cover what he needs. Ironically, one of the things that would make me the most jealous in our relationship is when he would put his arm around some female friend from high school. Like I said, I trust him, he's overall an honest guy - so - we have tons of sex, we have a kid together, I can't get a f***ng hug and kiss out of you after work, but you'll pull some chick you haven't seen for five years in for the real thing? He'd do the same with his guy friends, but of course with the women it bothers me more.

 

The touch thing is kind of a big deal. The affection thing too.

 

That's probably why it started with a touch.

[BourneWicked]

Can i just say i know exactly how you feel i had a EA with a co worker and it turned my life upside down....

 

it all ended last summer ( very sudden no explanation ) he ignored me for 6 months until we finally chatted again in December i needed some closure to fully move on and i got that in the end... the 6 months he never spoke to me literally killed me bit by bit inside, having to see him every day, listening to him laughin and talking was hard, like you i often got moments when i heard him talking about his family and i new i'd never be part of that....

 

fast forward nearly 8 months later and its got a little easier, we say hello every now and again but that is it... i still get times my mind takes me back to " this time last year"

 

for me personally it has changed me as a person, made me question a lot of things.... we are fools for allowing yourself to get into something like this.... because 99% of the time.. we are the ones who will end up feeling destroyed.

 

I am currently looking for another job as much as i can get on with things a lot easier.... he will always be there.. i will always feel something for him...

 

No doubt the next few weeks/months will be tough for you.... but please stay strong... just remember the outcome with this other guy would never be a pleasant one

 

((( hugs )))

 

xx

 

 

Ugh I absolutely feel you on this one. It's terrible isn't it? I always thought I was smarter than this, and never understood people and their silly workplace romances.

 

But we learned didn't we? Boy did I learn.

 

Glad to hear it's getting easier for you... thanks for taking the time to share your story. I like to believe the not having his physical presence daily will help, but I doubt it will make that much of a difference.

[BourneWicked]

Fabulous plus of avoidant attachment - you don't face your feelings, you shove them down deep. You don't chase the person you want, you try to tell yourself that they never existed.

 

Just an update - I think it's over. I don't know if I believe myself yet, or I trust it. It doesn't hurt yet, so I'm not sure if it's real. I think, when we don't talk tomorrow, then I'll believe it. When I start feeling the reality of missing him, it will be true.

 

Ask me tomorrow. Ask me when the pain comes.

[minimariah]

Ask me tomorrow.

 

what did i miss...?

 

 

did you talk to him? the pain will come... so will the desire to contact him - he was a great source of emotionally stability for you and it's OK to acknowledge that. you need to grieve so this is the time to write your heart out on LS & seek support in trusted friends.

 

Trust in my primary relationship: that is probably the number one reason I feel I need to end this. MM does not have trust in his relationship; she looks at his phone. I haven't done that in years, and my bf never would. This trust is important to me.

 

hmmmm... let me give you my point of view: it seems to me that your MM has a better marriage than you do. you mention trust... in YOUR situation... is it really trust or indifference...? do you trust him OR could it be that you're not interested in what he does outside of the relationship...?

 

you're in love with another man - you're obviously going through something. your boyfriend didn't mention a thing which means that he's emotionally distant and doesn't really pay attention to you. you have no emotional bond. the MM & his wife do and that's exactly why she was able to notice the change in him and react - they DO have something emotional going on and his spouse pays attention to him enough to catch the difference.

 

you and your boyfriend have entirely different love languages - you need to talk to him openly. let him know how serious it is, how you're standing on the doorstep without a desire to go back in. make that crystal clear to him so he can give his all, SERIOUSLY this time.

 

about your future with the MM - the distance is saving your likeable butt right now, trust me... even though the A was primarily EA. don't allow yourself to overanalyze things - you don't want to keep banging your head against the wall over and over and over again... you did realize many important things, take action an try to keep it moving. trying to find the WHYs and HOWs will emotionally drain you.

[BourneWicked]

Yes - we talked, and I told him the things I meant to tell him before. That I couldn't do this anymore. I felt like crap for a few days and drank a little more wine than I should. He's respecting my boundaries, tho I think he's miserable, which I appreciate.

 

So it kills me a little that you note that - in his relationship, she actually noticed something was wrong. My bf had a hint some time back and made a comment that he doesn't look at my phone, as if to say he knew I was up to something...

 

The distance is really saving me. In some ways, I was feeling separated for a while, and that almost hurt more than it does now with this break up.

 

I haven't talked to my bf yet... I realized exactly how hard it is to talk to him. He doesn't really take anything seriously, and we don't really have conversations about much of anything beyond who needs to go to the store, and about our kiddo. Probably the draw of the conversational MM... Bf grew up with an alcoholic mother and this is why we're both so good at dancing around our feelings.

 

The beginning of the week was feeling pretty bleak. Right now, I am feeling better for a moment. I'm feeling like I took my power back, like I'm not going to get fired for this ridiculousness at work. Like I'm finally being sensible for once.

 

The distance... oh distance. I can do this now and it's not so bad, because I was making it to a point where there was no contact outside work anyway. Honestly, it feels like I was breaking it off before I talked to him, and that's why it hurt so bad. However he's visiting late March for a big marketing project that I'm involved in. I'm terrified. I've started doing some planning... Although vacay is discouraged while working on this project, I might actually see if my boss will let me off. If we're shoved in a room together and on this project, I'm going to be right back where I started. It's not like a month away from him will make him less beautiful, funny, and smart to me; he's still going to taste like candy and feel like drugs.

 

Ugh.

 

But at the moment, doing okay. I think it will get worse before it gets better.

[Furious]

He's your boss, probably older and has young adult children, has pictures of his family on his desk. He doesn't future fake you, and no texts or calls allowed outside of work.

 

A couple of mini d-days and claimed he never saw this chick before. His wife is suspicious, who knows maybe he's cheated before and she's the marriage police, or perhaps she's listening to her gut and feels there is something no quite right.

 

You've said many times in your responses that you're not married even though you're living common law for the last eight years and have a young child together.

That's pretty much "married with children" without a piece of paper. Do you feel that cheating on your Partner is of less degree of betrayal because it's common law?

 

When you say breaking off the affair feels like getting back your power and less fear of being fired seems as though that is more important to you than hurting your Partner and most likely a broken home for your child.

 

I get that you no longer love your Partner, that's ok to fall out of love but how does it justify falling out of respect for him. The way you've described him is that he's actually a great guy and great father.

 

Have you ever been single for a period of time, or have all your relationships overlapped to some degree? Maybe the things you are looking for comes from within, maybe no one is perfect and will fulfill every need at all times. Something to think about.

[HeCantBreakMe]

It does get worse before it gets better but good for you in walking away. Do not let him back into your life it only makes it more difficult over time.

 

I am sorry for your pain. These men are dogs and should not have any of your respect or love. Keep walking.

[minimariah]

So it kills me a little that you note that - in his relationship, she actually noticed something was wrong.

 

how do you feel about that...? hypothetical question - would you be able to empathize with his wife, to work with her in coparenting if it really came to their divorce and you & your MM started a relationship? how do you feel about the wife and their marriage in general - neutral, negative?

 

However he's visiting late March for a big marketing project that I'm involved in. I'm terrified.

 

the IDEAL thing would be to quit the job but that's probably not too realistic. you can't avoid him forever so you need to learn how to get over him WHILE seeing him, meeting him for business. make a list and try to come up with his negative traits - you mentioned something about his fatherhood... start there. i personally don't think it's love --- you don't know this man, at the end of the day. i think you know ENOUGH but not entirely... just like you said in your 1st post. he has an entire LIFE going on that you don't know much about, you don't know how he acts, you don't know his family or friends... like a huuuuuuge chunk of his life is out there and you know nothing about it. so you're entitled to a very small portion of him... not the ENTIRE him - keep that in mind when you think about his qualities.

[BourneWicked]

Furious - some great comments. No, I don't think what I'm doing is any better than what he's doing - though I didn't ever say any words in front of piles of people about death do us part and what not. Again, because it's primarily EA, I don't feel that terrible about it. The PA that happened... that makes me feel guilty, though I know my bf made mistakes in the past as well. Not really an excuse.

 

Though - one thing gave me a little laugh. He is not my boss, I am the boss. He works in a hm parallel line of business and manages less people than I do. This relationship is not going to hurt me by giving it up; he's not going to be vindictive and he's actually been very respectful of my wishes. I have options to contact him outside work, but I avoid them.

 

The reason I feel like I took my power back is I've worked a very long time to get where I'm at. I've climbed to where I am, and I've never done something as stupid as this before. I've never put my job on the line for something like this. By cutting it off, I'm back to where I was before - powerful, proud of my work and my people, well-connected. Not risking it all with pseudosexual phone convos during work hours.

 

Hecantbreakme - thank you. I will say - and I knew this before - but men are infinitely dumber when it comes to sex.

 

 

Minimariah - I feel good about his marriage. Well - at times I wish it didn't exist, but I think he overall has a good marriage with someone who's pretty different from him. Same as my situation. I think she's a good person. I think they might both be bored, stagnant, enjoying the stress of parenting. Also, I do recognize there is a lot of good - a lot of great - in my relationship.

 

Honestly, I think the space between us is the only thing that's kept either of us from destroying our lives completely.

 

I think that's the thing that really made me cut it off. This stupid moment of clarity where I realized as much as I know him, I don't. I know some of him friends, I've heard about his family, but I don't know how he reacts in a crisis or fight. I haven't seen it. I'm totally crazy about him. The one thing I realize in my relationship... oh my goood I want someone to talk to. But hey, I have girlfriends. And most women feel this way right. That darn MM, tho, he sure knows how to hold a good conversation. And I have male friends who do the same. I just never realized that was something you could get from a guy.

 

So, it's very LC, it's horrible, I still smile every time I see or hear his name at work. And really, I want to keep that. I'd rather remember him fondly than having either of us think of the other as the person that ruined our lives.

 

I have found myself surfacing from the affair. it doesn't feel good, but it feels a little more like normal. To answer the past relationship question - nope, I've had three overlapping relationships. No true single time prior to my first relationship. And so, finally at a point where I'm confident and know what I want, but I've kind of already set out my life's path. Le sigh. First world problems

 

I kind of touched on it but... I thought I was a bad@ss because I didn't need these romantic things that other people seem to need. I thought friends who tracked their partners, or always checked in by text were over the top. I thought friends who made a big deal about valentines day or cute little letters from their partners were needy. It turns out I'm needy... I've just denied it for years to make myself stronger.

 

That's the other thing about this. I keep saying the word vulnerable. I make myself that with him. Bare my soul. (I know... everyone does in these things). I haven't quite let myself feel things about it being over. I have lost something here - a friend, a confidant, a listening ear, a quick wit, and a kind heart. I'm kind of severing my feelings. Long time coping mechanism. It scares me because someday I wonder if I will feel things at all.

 

Well tomorrow is another day. Whatever I feel tomorrow, it will be better than that crystal moment where I realized what it would feel like if we got caught.

Edited February 24, 2017 by BourneWicked

[minimariah]

hi, Bourne. how are you holding up?

[BourneWicked]

Oh yeah, I made it like a week and a half of hell and I caved.

 

I don't know... it's still really an EA. Somehow it feels healthier now, and I'm not sure why. Maybe some of that horrible limerence is gone. Ugh. Is it realistic to think that a person can be with one person for the rest of their life? Is it realistic for me?

 

Of the many things I've learned, this is one - yeah, physical attraction is important... but that emotional connection, and having awesome intellectual conversations is important to me. Having someone that connects with the geek in me is important. I guess I've always devalued the nerd within, so to have someone that recognizes and connects with that part of me is another part of what makes this thing so addictive. I know it's the whole affair aspect that makes it feel so ridiculously complete when it's really... nothing.

 

Even if I could have him, is he the right person for me? I dunno. I like that my bf doesn't have the wandering eyes that MM has. I like that I feel safe and certain with my bf. I do feel like the rest of my life would be way more exciting, fun, interesting with MM. I do feel I would be more self-actualized, more inspired to pursue my goals and talents with MM.

 

I've found out I likely won't see him until June so that's good. Always I feel myself distancing...

 

So yeah. I want this. Not the A, not the perfect disaster, not the fear and worry and the sleepless nights. Not someone I don't know if I could trust, not someone who is chasing the high worse than I am.

 

What I do want is the emotional, mental connection. And the physical. Way too much to want, way too much to hope for. Oh and that voice. So you know, just all that and a bag of chips

 

Opposites attract is complete bogus. I've discovered I really do want someone similar to me, someone with similar interests, way of thinking and speaking, passion for travel and languages, love of books and old places.

 

This is for the future though. Right now I think what my child wants is more important than what I want. I do need to refocus on me as far as my hobbies and interests, but I don't need MM to do that. I just need me.

 

Ugh. What a time waster. I just wish I could shut off the liking him bit.

 

Distancing, distancing... =(

[BourneWicked]

Ugh I feel like a pile for some reason. Not sure why. Oh is it because I'm having a shady mostly emotional, pseudo-sexual affair with a married man?

Yeah, that might be it.

 

I'm leaning pretty heavily towards seeking counseling. Apparently I can't handle a normal, stable life. Apparently I feel the need to chase these ridiculous highs and lows.

 

Before the A, I was kind of flat-line, maybe borderline depression. But that's kind of the state of my life. The state of my personality.

 

Since the A, I chase these highs. Not always with him - a lot of them in the form of physical extremes, drinking more than I should, pushing people, pushing myself, pushing relationships. Riding the edge of life.

 

I scare myself.

 

I just want to find that baseline again. That something that felt like normal, as boring and routine as it might have been. I hate to say it, but I think I should look for a new job. As hard as I've worked for this, I don't think I can be an authentic, decent person when I've thrown this shadow over everything I've worked so hard for.

 

It's funny because he'll say these things when he's worried that I'm getting too attached. Things like, "someday we'll be able to be friends" and all this bogus. Thing is, I've seen it, he copes with us separating a lot worse than I do. Some f*ed up part of me enjoys that. Enjoys knowing when we separate, when I really mean it, it's going to tear him apart and I'll go to that place where I distance myself, become a different person. Ultimately, it will hurt him more than it hurts me, because I won't allow myself to feel these things. I'll find that part of myself and cut it out.

 

A bird's eye view - never, ever, ever. I will never do this again. I have amazing friendships with men that are healthy and do great things for my life and well-being. If I knew this guy's wife, I just couldn't. I'm mostly an honest and decent person, and would have a hard time lying to save my life.

 

One of the big things I think about - I just really don't want to model this behavior for other women that I work with. Relatively subtle, but when I see him in June, I can't hide those feelings. I absolutely do not want any women that I work with to think that this is good behavior to improve your career. Because it's not. It's bullsh*t, and for 9 of the last 10 years I knew that.

 

So anyway. I'm going to do some lurking here and hope I learn a lesson. Some days, I get so healthy about this and barely think about him. Other days, he's everything.

 

There are bits of my personality that make me stronger than him. That part that draws from within and doesn't care what other people think. That part that can spend hours lost in a book or a complex problem. I need to draw on that part of me to get past him.

 

Ugh. Thanks for listening

[minimariah]

Thing is, I've seen it, he copes with us separating a lot worse than I do.

 

 

i have another theory; i think he's coping well. you're not.

 

he's dealing with his emotions and going through that rough time and awful pain, allowing himself to feel. that's healthy and that's how people REALLY move on. you don't seem to do any of that - instead of facing your feelings, the loss... you ignore it and you hope it will all go away. and one day, it will come back like a boomerang and it won't be pretty. i do understand you enjoying his pain --- you're in love. and when we're in love, the suffering of the other person is some kind of validation. confirmation that what you had was real and that you're not easily replaced.

 

you should take some time and think about all of this. don't do anything during high times or low times. yes, finding a new job would be a good way BUT - think about the consequences. will that cause resentment with your partner?

 

counseling is a great idea - we ALL need it. taking care of our mental health is important and most of us neglect it. i think few conversations with someone neutral and professional will do you good.

 

take one day at a time!

 

and DEAL with these emotions. you know damn well you can't press fast forward and cut stuff out!

[BourneWicked]

Thanks MiniMariah. And yeah, you're right, I guess I really wasn't dealing well. Sometimes... I feel like I have trouble identifying my own feelings. Like I need someone else to do that for me! That's really good advice not to make snap decisions in the highs or the lows.

 

A quote I read that I'm feeling to day - the cure for pain is in the pain.

 

This morning I feel a lot better, and I'm not sure why. I'm looking forward to the things I have planned for the weekend, and the fact that the likelihood of interacting with him on the weekend is minimal. Kind of a relief.

 

So this is a good place to be... but this comes in waves... not looking forward to the next low. I do have a really good book on my kindle that I'm hoping to hide in when it hits

[minimariah]

Bourne!

 

waiting for an update, girl. i hope all is well.

[BourneWicked]

Thanks for checking up on me.

 

Just a collection of random thoughts tonight.

 

You can love someone and it can mean nothing at all.

 

I've built the perfect family that I wish I'd had growing up. I found a kind father for my children, created a strong career and built a life that I didn't dare dream of as a poor kid with a single mom. I was a accepted into a family that was so much better off, so much more 'normal' and healthy than my own.

 

In building, in thinking I was never quite good enough, I never asked for what I really wanted. I never asked for romance, deep conversations, affection, an undercurrent of connection that makes a person feel like they've done this before in a past life, because I was just trying to survive.

 

There are things about this that have made me feel more whole than I ever have in my life. In this facade of a relationship, where I've felt comfortable being openly, truly, myself, I've pieced back a part of myself that was broken since childhood.

 

At the same time, if I could have him, would I want him? Yes, definitely yes. Would it work? I don't know. We would have fiery, passionate love, adventures, companionship, sweetness I could pour in my coffee in the morning.

 

But. He has his weaknesses. I know this; after all, I'm one of them.

 

I have my weaknesses. The fact that I'm not insanely jealous in my current relationship is a reflection of the character of my partner, not of me.

 

My family is more important than my selfish desires. What I choose now will impact my children for the rest of their lives.

 

This relationship has a shelf life, due to the nature of our work and my own self-imposed deadlines. It won't live til winter. I've given us, and life has given us, until the leaves fall.

 

He'll be in town in a week. We talk daily, but I haven't seen him in person for half a year.

 

Wish me luck...

 

Or perhaps wish me strength of character, or better decision making skills...

[minimariah]

Bourne!

 

i love the way you write - i'm kind of selfishly hoping for another update just so i could enjoy your writing some more. how was this week?

 

also - did you discuss the idea of being together at all? if i understand, the A is back on but do you discuss any further plans or just kind of take it one moment at the time?

 

good luck! with everything.

[BourneWicked]

Mariah you’re too kind

 

I have a non-update update. Basically that I’m still languishing in my bittersweet cake-eating ways, long distance.

 

We saw each other a few weeks ago, and it was as you would expect. Wonderful, amazing, a high like I’ve never known you could get from a person before. So, totally healthy there.

 

He’s beautiful. Funny, clever, gentle, with a hint of sarcastic. His eyes, his lips, his shoulders, his hands. His laugh. And what really kills me is his voice…

 

The saddest part: that I found him too handsome, smart, to get to know him without screwing it up. I think we could have had an amazing (innocent) lifelong friendship if that line hadn’t been crossed. But because I was too shy and intimidated, I couldn’t get to know him on a friend level. Apparently I had to sleep with him to be able to talk to him. So strange – most of my friends would say I’m relatively outgoing and don’t have a hard time talking to strangers or new people. But this one was different

 

We did briefly discuss being together. The logistics, the wreckage, make it pretty unlikely. It was nice to hear him speculate about it though – it made me feel like we were on the same page, the same level of caring about each other and enjoying each other’s company.

 

Slightly off topic but – when I was out for a girl’s night, a guy talked to me. An engineer, with good looks and people skills. He was trying to hit on me, but I said no thanks (See? I can do it! I do it all the time. Ugh…) I’m with someone. Somewhere in this conversation he told me that he had a fiancé, who he only cheats on when he’s away on business. He showed me a picture. She was supermodel gorgeous. I told him he should probably stop that, and should probably let her know. He said it would only hurt her. I said, it will hurt her more once you’re married. Bizarre, that somehow he could sense in me that I was in a similar place he was. I confessed, to this complete stranger, that I am with someone, but in love with someone else.

 

He said he’d never been in love. About ten years older than me, and he’s never been in love.

 

I said – consider yourself lucky.

 

Truly being in love – I’ve experienced it twice in my life, with these two men. The one I’m with, and the one who isn’t mine. What a horrible trick biology plays to try to trick you into making babies. It’s so strong, I think, or our species wouldn’t continue. I wonder, at times, how my mom ever ended up with my dad, and I know it must have been love. This terrible chemical addiction. She experienced it once, she married him, and he made her change her opinion on men forever. She’s barely dated, and clearly never found that again. We make these life-changing decisions in an altered state of mind. People can’t get tattoos when they’re drunk, but we let people get married when they’re high.

 

I realized something else about why I fell for him, the last time I saw him. I’m not quite ready to talk about it.

 

My work offers counseling services, so I’m looking at those. I struggle to pull the trigger, because I feel I need to unload all this baggage – but I have a friend who is a counselor, who tells me all day long about the lives of her clients. So, as someone who has trouble trusting, it’s hard to bring this life-wrecking story to an unknown person in my small community. Which is why I told a stranger passing through from Arizona…

 

~Looking at posts and advice of anyone who went LC with someone they worked with. Love my job, but looked at the job boards at work for the first time in years. Living authentically is not drugs and secret meetings and late night phone calls.~

[sunrise_sunset]

Wow, Bourne. Do you know, I haven’t posted here in months (although I am a faithful lurker!) – but this post of yours pushed me to finally weigh in…? I should probably update my own post as well…sigh. So, your latest post. YES. I’ve been in and out, up and down, all around the emotional/physical map with my MM (sometimes its xMM) for 1.5 years. We have been in serious LC for the last couple of months (NC hard to achieve, as we do work for the same company – but luckily, not in the same building), but I have to tell you~~even as I attempt counseling and shifting my focus constantly back to home~~if he were to even come looking for me again, I’d probably take him back in a heartbeat.

 

I have been the one to end it several times. But those highs? THE HIGHS. I crave them. I hate them and love them. I think back often to when this all unfolded, and it’s what you said…I think we truly could have been awesome friends if I hadn’t crossed that line. We are so different, but we really connect whenever we see each other. I’m so angry with myself that I had to take that leap JUST TO SEE what it was all about.

 

Not one person in my life knows this has happened. And, like you, I consider myself a pretty social, happy-go-lucky person on the outside. But one difference from your story (aside from you guys being long distance and your having an LTR – I am married): My guy has never, ever discussed the possibility of us in the future. I myself think about it all the time. But all this romanticizing, putting him on some pedestal, treating him almost like he was some unattainable GOD (and he liked ME? No – he probably saw me as an easy target)– it has to stop. How to do this with work constantly bringing us together?

 

We have both tried to leave. So much so, that we’ve both taken on side jobs in the hopes that they will turn into longer, full-time gigs that can get one of us out of there. But honestly, most of this is my doing. He seems to be able to compartmentalize extremely well. I do not. Talk to me about that. How are you coping, and how is your LTR at the moment?

[Vivir]

The saddest part: that I found him too handsome, smart, to get to know him without screwing it up. I think we could have had an amazing (innocent) lifelong friendship if that line hadn’t been crossed.

Bourne, this part of your post really, really resonated with me. This very thing comes up repeatedly in my journal, and I have apologized to xMM for it. When I first saw him, I couldn't take my eyes off of him. I was always sneaking stares and studying his features; I just couldn't believe how attractive he was. It was literally ridiculous... I didn't necessarily want to sleep with him, but I was utterly mesmerized by his beauty.

 

In any case, I apologized to him for my part in the destruction of both our boundaries, and told him that I could have been a real friend to him if I had made very different decisions. At the same time, I realize that he is the one who escalated to physical intimacy, but I did provide for him the opportunity. Perhaps he was always wanting an affair; he was likely operating under married people's dating rules. I was definitely operating under the dating rules for single people... even though he was married... I had no real idea what I was getting myself into.

 

But all this romanticizing, putting him on some pedestal, treating him almost like he was some unattainable GOD (and he liked ME? No – he probably saw me as an easy target)– it has to stop.

 

So, ultimately, I ended up with the thinking that sunrise_sunset has put forth. He is not GOD. He is a man. With all of his beauty, he is flawed - like the rest of humanity. He probably did see me as an easy target (this is something I seriously continue to struggle with and cry and feel deep shame about even though the affair is over).

 

We no longer work together. One has to be VERY strong to end an A in the workplace when you have to see or work together. I saw him daily when we were working together, and it got to the point I looked exactly how I felt: terrible. I knew the affair had to end, I knew he wasn't going to end it, and I was struggling with doing it myself. He had some issues (i.e., flaws) that helped get him terminated. During this time, I felt a type of survivor's guilt; it was bad... I have no idea how to successfully manage LC/NC in the workplace, but there are threads around here on the subject.

 

Best of Luck to you both.

X

[BourneWicked]

Sunrise_Sunset - I am glad to get your perspective. And - as you say - I think I see love, and he probably saw opportunity. Not to make him out to be a bad person, because he's probably one of the better ones. (Like a lesser bottom feeder... because I can judge...) With your situation, and with mine, I think the lack of future faking makes them better people.

 

It's good to hear you're in a place of LC. I desperately want to get there. I feel if we went LC, I could slowly get past him. Maybe not, but at least it would be a possibility.

 

It's frustrating... when I look back at my patchwork quilt of romantic history, I don't care what my couple of ex boyfriends are up to now. There's no feeling, I wish them well, but I just simply don't care. Because I know there's no happy ending here, I wish I could just fast forward to a point of not caring. With this one though, I think I will always wonder. I think I will always want to know what he's up to, where he is, what he's thinking. I hope not, but it's hard to believe anything else right now.

 

Of us, I actually think I'm the better compartmentalizer (at times) than he is. If I get upset, I move away, separate, and he chases. Basically, when I get bothered with feels, I start to distance and cut them off, focus on other things. Definitely focusing on hobbies, interests helps. I have been as obsessively interested in different passions of mine as I am in MM, and I try to lose myself in those. It works, for a spell. Then... I go back to work.

 

My LTR is alright. My partner seems happy, our sex life is still good, we still get along pretty well. The messed up part is I want sex with someone else, so I compartmentalize there too. I realize what I'm doing is awful, and there are certain things in my LTR I am and should be very grateful for. I've also realized... I'm pretty smart. That's not a brag, or narcissism, it just is. (Obviously a lil stupid in certain situations but...) I've never been involved with someone I consider to be the same intelligence level. I've always worked white collar and dated blue collar. And that's what I've been attracted to; there's something about a guy that can fix a car, hit a home run. There are different sorts of intelligence, too. So, I have lots of nerdy guy friends who are great to talk to that I have zero attraction to who spend their nights playing D&D in the basement. Then along comes this guy - super smart, but with social skills and physically active.

 

So... although, overall I respect my partner, and realize he has a lot of knowledge about mechanical things, plays a mean pool game, is good in bed, and makes me feel attractive, I've realized that there is a small part of me that dies a little every time I have to explain a historical or mathematical concept, or reiterate something I thought was common knowledge.

 

So when I talk to MM, and our conversation flows as if he's plucking the thoughts from my head, it's very difficult to let that go.

 

Part of it, too, is that I don't know if I ever would have let myself get close to someone so clever and funny and sweet if I'd been available. Because that would mean setting myself up to get hurt. My boyfriend is more like me - definitely some avoidant attachment going on there. The outpouring of kindness and caring I get from MM is quite the drug, in varying dosages, that keeps me hooked.

 

It's all just a mess, a sort of limbo. It feels safe, because distance, and we have some boundaries to our contact, but it really isn't. Every time my bf asks me why I'm smiling, and I come up with some weak half-truth, that creates a little rift between us.

 

I have this year goal to kill it, that relates to our business. That's a few more months. Delay tactics. I hope I find the strength to do it when the time comes. I am decent with goals... Probably I need to lay out an action plan.

 

Vivir - Journaling is smart. Something I plan to do more of. It helps work through all the complicated feelings. An article I read also said that journaling about your daily relationships (like this LTR that is probably the more important one I need to focus my attention on) can actually make those relationships stronger.

 

Thanks for sharing your stories... it's good to hear your coping strategies.

 

Interesting too, that we blame ourselves for being available when most of the time he was the one initiating contact. But, women are really the gatekeepers of relationships in society, so I guess we're equally at fault for not shutting these things down. Definitely a mistake I won't repeat.

 

I've ended it a couple times, he respects if for a bit, then chases through work-related things. I miss him, a little contact, and slowly returns to where we are now. Not really friends, not really lovers. Like - oh, you're off the heroine but someone left this needle right here...