CaliforniaGirl Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 For simple and obvious reasons, that never happens in situations like this. The same narcissistic sense of selfishness and self-absorption that enables the affair also drives the cheater to hold on to an "amazing" spouse, usually by keeping them in the dark. They'll rationalize this by claiming disclosure would only hurt their partner. WS don't get where they are by doing the right thing thing. Their focus is on the right thing - for them... Mr. Lucky Well, sure it does happen. Cheaters (and non-cheaters) do feel regret, guilt and also want to freely pursue either an active partner or seek a new one, all the time and do indeed leave their spouses. It certainly happens. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Life lessons Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 This is the third or fourth time you've made this distinction. Why is it important to you to describe it as such? Do you think your husband would describe it the same way? Mr. Lucky I don't feel there's necessarily any importance other than calling it how I see it. Yes it was a PA which as stated happened a couple of times but the EA has been daily so I guess that's why I'm saying it was more an EA but yes it was a PA as well. It was an EA for months and then turned to PA then back to EA after the couple of times. Like stated above, I wanted it to end because I'm aware that it will become a PA soon if I don't end it and I don't want that. I would like to stay friends but I know that's not only possible but so unfair Link to post Share on other sites
Imajerk17 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I don't feel there's necessarily any importance other than calling it how I see it. Yes it was a PA which as stated happened a couple of times but the EA has been daily so I guess that's why I'm saying it was more an EA but yes it was a PA as well. It was an EA for months and then turned to PA then back to EA after the couple of times. Like stated above, I wanted it to end because I'm aware that it will become a PA soon if I don't end it and I don't want that. I would like to stay friends but I know that's not only possible but so unfair You truly don't grasp the magnitude of what you've done, do you. You betrayed your husband, an amazing man in your own words, and your family. And you "want to stay friends" with the guy you betrayed your husband with? Oh, and if you had "wanted it to end", it would have never started in the first place. So stop saying that, no one believes you. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
aliveagain Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I have deleted the account. My h does have full access to my phone at all times. Everything you deleted O/M has a duplicate of at his end. How much do you trust him? Anyone that has knowledge of your affair owns you. We have seen it many times before, a wife or husband stays in the affair because of the threat of exposure(extortion) from their affair partner. You need to have a plan, hope for the best but plan for the worst. Start by getting yourself into independent counselling, find out why you allowed yourself the approval to do this, one day you will have to explain it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I'm aware that it will become a PA soon if I don't end it and I don't want that. I would like to stay friends but I know that's not only possible but so unfair Life lessons, this is total BS. I'm on your side but this is total BS and denial, denial, denial... It's already a PA. You have broken your marriage vows and had sex with another man who is not your husband... And I don't know that your husband will care about anything more than that... And no, you can't stay friends. No, it's not unfair. What's unfair is what you have done to your husband. No contact is the only way if you have any hope of saving your marriage. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) The post below was written by a “player.” Does any part of it sound as if it could have been written by your OM? So the fact that you gave in to his advances on a married woman with a kid gives him the right to expect certain consideration? You can’t be rude to him by ignoring him? WRITTEN BY A PLAYER: My perspective- as a serial cheat. Before I start, I'm no GQ model look alike and I'm not wealthy. For me, it was always about extra sex. The thrill of the chase and ego boost was a plus, but I just wanted more sex than my wife did. I always loved my wife and certainly never ever wanted to leave her or lose her. Especially not over someone else's wayward wife. I had a simple method. I used it because it worked. I targeted married women. I figured they were safer for several important reasons. 1- Less likely to be sleeping around with random guys (STDs). 2- Less likely to pull the crazy girlfriend BS and call my wife. 3- In case of an unwanted pregnancy, I had a built in schmuck to pay the tab and would have claimed to have had a vasectomy. The most important part of being a player is to hide it. I started with shy looks making certain I'd get caught and then doing my best to look embarrassed. If she started to come around more or dress sexier then I'd try a safe compliment. If she called me on my BS (yes, it happened) I simply acted highly offended. After all, I'm a married family man. That usually got me an apology. A few really smart ones just avoided me altogether. If she accepted the compliment, I knew I had a chance. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. If the compliment was successful, I simply followed with more as time permitted and just let things develop. Who knew where it would go? When she would speak with me about her frustrations with her husband (they always complained about their husband) I used that to my advantage. If they complained that he didn't do enough with the kids, I was dad of the year. If he didn't help out around the house, I did everything at home so my wife didn't have to. Yes, it was complete BS, but so what. My job was to make them feel special, pretty and needed and to paint the fantasy. After all, my goal was not conversation or friendship. I wanted to score. Once things progressed and I had to keep it intense unless it was simply a once and done kind of thing. I would do that by pushing her boundaries for sex. Anal, public hook-up whatever. Keep in mind, I'm in it for the sex so I tried for everything I liked and heard more than once statements like... I never even let my husband do that. That was usually with anal, but sometimes public hook-ups also. I certainly didn't want to be paying for hotel rooms out my pocket. If she wanted to pay, that was fine. Otherwise, we could hook-up anywhere, it didn't matter to me. I always advised them to keep the secret between us, because it was so special. Actually, I didn't want to get busted. If they got busted, and some did. That was their tough crap to deal with. I certainly never vowed to love/honor/cherish them. As I look back, I'm stunned at how easy it was and how many fell for my crap. I had some that would try to pull away and I'd feed them the star crossed lovers BS, you know... kept apart by the cruel hand of fate. That worked like magic to seal the deal. I also used things like I think my wife may have cheated on me. Then I'd work in how I got tested for STDs and it was clear and somehow manage to mention my vasectomy (never had one). Understand? I'm safe, you won't catch anything if you sleep with me and I won't get you pregnant. That was the message. The one thing that sent me running was the fear of getting caught and sometimes I just wanted a quick bang and wasn't in it for a couple of months of an affair. I'm still also amazed by how many didn't see through my crap either. They didn't have to deal with the day to day stresses that adults face with me (finances, mortgages, car payments, child care, time commitments, etc.). With me, it was just fun and sex. The poor bastard at home didn't have a chance once the play was in motion. It also helped me to see him as a douche-bag when his wife whined about him for whatever reason. I work with a woman that has lost everything over an affair with me. The house, husband, family, etc. It's difficult to see. She hates me now, but I never vowed anything to her or forced her to do anything. That's her tough crap. Her kids are in therapy, their grades tanked and she's struggling financially and the kids blame her, etc. Honestly, I wish she'd quit so I didn't have to see her every freaking day. I do know a few like me that I consider even worse. They brag and laugh about getting wayward wives to do things and try to get email or text proof to show off. It's pretty easy, just tell her how much he liked doing X with her last night and let her respond. Then they had proof to brag about and trade notes. I didn't do that. I just wanted the sex and avoided the women they talked about. I liked to find the ones who would seem to be the last to ever do anything like this. Goes back to my 3 reasons. I never flirted with a married woman unless I wanted in her pants. Plain and simple, you do have to hide it so they don't see it coming, but it's really that basic. Other players use different methods, but we all use what works and modify sometimes if we're not progressing to try a different angle. Not all women are the same, and sometimes deviations are required if she'll let you in her pants. It was never about love, just sex. I sold the fantasy, yes. But that is all it ever was. A fair trade. They were adults and quite frankly should have known better. Am I a predator, I certainly never thought so and I certainly never thought about what would happen to them when we were done. Yes, all my affairs ended. Most stayed married to their H they *****ed about and screwed around on. Therefore, he must not have been that bad. People just get caught up with unrealistic expectations on life I think. For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job. Before I close, I'll say this as well. An engaged woman would have worked for me also, but I never found one that would go for me. Also, newly married women are much harder to get. I had the best luck with women who had been married for at least several years, throw a kid or two in the mix and they were usually more susceptible to being chased. It was a fair trade. Attention and compliments for sex. • Prince Charming is only charming because he wants a blowjob... That's amusing! This is hard to read, mostly because this woman's life has been destroyed and you don't seem to have any remorse for your part in her difficulties... But sadly, some women won't see "this guy" coming until it is far too late... Edited February 21, 2017 by BaileyB Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Blunt Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 What other help have you gotten other than here on this forum? By Life Lessons None! This is the only place! By Blunt If you do not get additional help you have no chance of having a successful R.....You admitting that you are a betrayer and 100% at fault is not enough......Time for ACTIONS by you...words are not enough and you cannot be believed.....what additional help do you have lined up? Link to post Share on other sites
Overtaxed Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Prince Charming is only charming because he wants a blowjob... That's amusing! This is hard to read, mostly because this woman's life has been destroyed and you don't seem to have any remorse for your part in her difficulties... But sadly, some women won't see "this guy" coming until it is far too late... Hard to read, yes. More truthful than what 95% of WW's hear from their AP? Also yes. I know I'm sounding like a broken record about this, but I don't think women realize how many affairs men like this account for. Sure, you (not you Bailey, you WW's reading this) only had one affair. But the guy you're having it with? It might be his first. It might be his 5th. It might be his 15th. My wife's AP had 2 other discovered by his wife; how many went undetected? I'm pretty confident the answer is somewhere between "more than 0" and "a lot". Wouldn't surprise me if my wife isn't the first woman at her job (they used to work together) he's slept with. The men who sweep you off your feet into an A, sure, they might just be awesome guys who have lousy wives at home. But, that's not nearly as likely as "he's good at this because he's following a script; he's done this before.. A lot". Yes, I know there are a lot of men who post here about A's they got into, but, the men who are "serials" most likely aren't ever going to post here. And, IMHO, they account for some huge proportion of affairs out there. Safe way for women to think of it, if a man knows your married and is still pursuing you, he has no respect for you, your marriage, or your life. Because, that's probably all true. He'll blow it all up to have sex with you and then walk away like nothing happened as your life crashes around you. There's a reason that most affairs don't turn into LTR's, and, while there are several factors, the main one, IMHO, is that these women are being played.. Played hard. The AP has no intention of ever turning it into a LTR, no matter what they say, or how charming they seem. Are there exceptions? Of course there are. Are they exceptional? Yes, they are, statistics tell us that with the ~10% of affairs that turn into a LTR. Even if you just want to look at that number, there's a 90% chance you're being played. And about a 100% chance that it's going to end in catastrophic heartbreak for you and your husband. Are those the kind of odds you want to gamble on? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Well, sure it does happen. Cheaters (and non-cheaters) do feel regret, guilt and also want to freely pursue either an active partner or seek a new one, all the time and do indeed leave their spouses. It certainly happens. I could have been more specific. When I said "in situations like this", I was referring to the oft-seen scenario the OP finds herself in - affair is over, clueless "amazing" and supportive spouse waiting at home. I'm hard pressed to think of a single thread where the WS goes back, exposes it all and walks away because that's best for the BS... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Globug Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I have deleted the account. My h does have full access to my phone at all times. How are you able to text him late into the night if this is true without your DH suspecting or finding out. All he has to do is look at phone logs to see the mass texting. Link to post Share on other sites
GoldenR Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Like stated above, I wanted it to end because I'm aware that it will become a PA soon if I don't end it and I don't want that. I would like to stay friends but I know that's not only possible but so unfair It will become a PA soon? Huh? It already is a full blown PA...so much minimalization. And you know that staying friends is not only possible..... That was a typo, right? Link to post Share on other sites
BluesPower Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Not trying to be a troublemaker, but why do I always get the feeling reading the commentary below (which is popular around here) that it was written by some BS trying to make a point? It just reads waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too "Dear Penthouse Forum...I NEVER thought it would happen to me" or like a woman masquerading as a man writing for Men's Health (ask me how I know all about that)...I dunno. I guess it's possible that this was an actual player, that this actual player used this M.O. and that some others do as well but I can't see why it's constantly pulled out as some sort of definitive proof that all or even most (we all know that's the intimation, despite careful disclaimers) male APs operate just like this and are laughing at the women they do and the women's BHs. I'm not trying to take away from what the OP has done, that is a totally separate issue which has been and continues to be addressed (I addressed it too, negatively). I don't know, the whole diatribe just...reads so much like a BS trying to hurt the WW who hurt him. That is all, carry on... Unfortuanatly CaliforinaGirl, It is just like this. Admittedly I was never ever as bad as the guy that wrote this little piece but it is that way. Board married women, whose husbands are not taking care of business, are frankly just so easy. Now I have reformed, but yes it is actually that easy. Toward the end for me, I just got board with it all. Not really much of a challenge. This is how these guys think... Edited February 22, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator quote formatting ~6 Link to post Share on other sites
Overtaxed Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Not trying to be a troublemaker, but why do I always get the feeling reading the commentary below (which is popular around here) that it was written by some BS trying to make a point? It just reads waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too "Dear Penthouse Forum...I NEVER thought it would happen to me" or like a woman masquerading as a man writing for Men's Health (ask me how I know all about that)...I dunno. I guess it's possible that this was an actual player, that this actual player used this M.O. and that some others do as well but I can't see why it's constantly pulled out as some sort of definitive proof that all or even most (we all know that's the intimation, despite careful disclaimers) male APs operate just like this and are laughing at the women they do and the women's BHs. I'm not trying to take away from what the OP has done, that is a totally separate issue which has been and continues to be addressed (I addressed it too, negatively). I don't know, the whole diatribe just...reads so much like a BS trying to hurt the WW who hurt him. Unfortuanatly CaliforinaGirl, It is just like this. Admittedly I was never ever as bad as the guy that wrote this little piece but it is that way. Board married women, whose husbands are not taking care of business, are frankly just so easy. Now I have reformed, but yes it is actually that easy. Toward the end for me, I just got board with it all. Not really much of a challenge. This is how these guys think...I have to agree (and Blues, you and I rarely do, shocking, right?). And I know this from personal experience; not the A part, but the "sleeping with women for sport" part of it. I read countless books. Joined communities of "players" to refine and learn new techniques. And although I never targeted married women (there were subforums that taught specific "pick up" for married women, that was too "dark side" for me), a lot of guys did. As Blues said, "just so easy" was the common thread for why men went after the married women. They didn't want to hurt other men (they also didn't care if they did), and I don't think they really wanted to hurt the women either. They just wanted sex. And they got it. A lot of it. And so did I; not from married women (well, not knowingly, I have slept with another man's wife before though during my "player" days, I just didn't know it until after it was over; not that makes it any better). It's a script. If you'd like to read it, search Google for "learn game" or "roosh game". You'll find entire communities of guys who do this stuff like most guys play baseball or go fishing. It's a sport to them, and, ladies, you are the prey. I also got bored with it. Not because it wasn't a challenge anymore, but because my soul was dying. I was searching for something through sex that simply wasn't there. I had so many lies piled up, I honestly struggled to remember who I was in the morning. And I'd become so good at lying that the truth was a distant memory. So much so that I honestly didn't even know when I was lying anymore (which, of course, is the most convincing way possible to lie). Now, the caveat. Are all men like this? Of course not. Are all male AP's like this? Also, of course not. But, when you enter into an A and the man knows and does not care that your married? There's an excellent chance that he is, in fact "like that". Edited February 22, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Link to post Share on other sites
CaliforniaGirl Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Unfortuanatly CaliforinaGirl, It is just like this. Admittedly I was never ever as bad as the guy that wrote this little piece but it is that way. Board married women, whose husbands are not taking care of business, are frankly just so easy. Now I have reformed, but yes it is actually that easy. Toward the end for me, I just got board with it all. Not really much of a challenge. This is how these guys think... This is how you think (or thought), and how a certain number of other men may think (and maybe women, who knows). Not all. It's human nature when we do something very, very bad that we want to believe "everybody does it" - that makes us feel better ("everybody hates her child once in a while," "everybody cheats on his taxes at least ONCE," "you can't tell me you've never stolen ANYTHING from your company" or whatever), but that doesn't mean it's true. Now. In this particular situation? Well, this particular situation is just that: this particular situation. This man is not you and you don't know this woman (and neither do and and neither does anyone here). This guy said the right things and so on, and meanwhile, the OP played him just as much...leaning right into the full-on conversations, being the first to kiss, this coy "I shouldn't" thing, the playing along with "it's not actually a PA yet because we haven't crossed an imaginary amount of times to call it such". Who was playing whom? It's fine to try to draw parallels in order to attempt to help someone. But to decide everybody who does a bad thing is just as bad as we were about it, doesn't make a lot of sense to me except to make the person giving the "advice" feel better. I don't see that the OP really needs any more people (including you, sorry) to fall right into HER trap of "oh, you're right, this guy was such a player, 'these guys' are so good at that." Beyond possibly just not being true/accurate, it doesn't help her one iota because it allows her to continue to convince herself - and apparently others - that none of this was her fault. Just my outlook. Edited February 22, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator quote formatting ~6 Link to post Share on other sites
CaliforniaGirl Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Now, the caveat. Are all men like this? Of course not. Are all male AP's like this? Also, of course not. Actually, that's ^ not a caveat. It's sensible and probably the most important thing you said here. By the by, if this isn't OT but you did bring it up: I know all about "Roosh" and PUA. I have seen hundreds of men complaining on relationship forums that it DOESN'T work. (I'll bet we all have.) So yet again, see my first point above. Link to post Share on other sites
aliveagain Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I have to tell that the document written by "A Player" is a document I saved sometime ago. It makes me sick to read and it is guys like him that give me cause to stay on this site to help other poor B/S's that have to deal with a man or woman like this POS. My old associate Sl*ty Jim could have written that same document with the exception he targeted the wives of police officers. He was a realtor and once he got in with one they passed him around if you can believe that. Unfortunately people like him do exist and it's all about scoring. They will never leave their wife or girlfriend, they will never allow you to get any of their wealth and they usually have more then one wife on the go. There was never anything special about your affair, that's why your actions are often very predictable. Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 A couple comments. Just because you don't want to divorce your husband doesn't mean you love him. Wives who love their husbands don't screw other men. Before you and every other WW jumps on this statement let me add that I know you think you love him but the kind of love you have for him is not the kind he wants. At your wedding, how did you answer this question: “Will you have this man to be your husband; to live together in the covenant of marriage? Will you love him, comfort him, honor and keep him, in sickness and in health; and, forsaking all others, be faithful to him as long as you both shall live?” You said "I do" or you wouldn't be here. So, your kind of love is not what most people would call "love". It's more like a "I like my life and he's a decent provider and, of course, my kids need a dad....." kind of love. Second, whether you decide to ever tell him about your cheating or not is a real question you will probably face. If you decide to divorce him there is no reason to tell him. If you break it off with OM and re-dedicate to your marriage there is no reason to tell him. All telling him about your infidelity will do is hurt him beyond anything you can imagine. If you want to hurt him than, by all means, throw it in his face. But if you have any feelings for him at all keep this to yourself. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
FortyandForlorn Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I will try to address the posts above at some point today but I wanted to let you all know I immediately went NC yesterday. I'm not going to lie, it's hard but reading all your replies makes it a hair easier to handle. Reading and re reading what you all have said has really opened my eyes. Although we did have a PA, we were intimate a few times, it was more of an EA since we haven't seen each other recently but the communication was still there daily. Not that an EA is right either. I know it's not because it has taken time away from my family. But I did want to clarify that the entire A was more of an Ea than pa. Again, I know it's still wrong. I will continue to re-read these posts because your replies have helped me more than you know. For the ones saying I don't care about my DH you are wrong. And that I don't feel bad...you are wrong. I feel horrible for everything I have done. Wow, so many pages! I had an EA. When it started, I felt that it came out of the blue because my marriage was strong and my love for my husband was rock solid. I thought it was something fun throughout my work day, and I didn't take it seriously (no declarations of love or leaving spouses, etc). But as soon as it ended, that's when I saw the cracks in our marriage and the distraction of the A was keeping me from addressing the real issues. And in the heat of it, if someone asked me if I loved my husband and marriage, I would say, "of course, without a doubt!" The affair removed all the smokescreens I put up in my marriage so I had no choice but to face what wasn't (and still isn't) working. We are rebuilding our marriage, but it's a long, painful road. And facing those issues have made NC and moving on really hard. NC for a couple days is fine. But as you move on, it's going to get unbelievably hard. You will need a therapist to help you and you will need to tell you husband. You can hide the affair, but you won't be able to hide the depression of not having the affair addiction anymore. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
seren Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Life Lessons, I hope you continue with NC, I hope you post an update years down the line and that you and your H have worked out and that all is well. x 4 Link to post Share on other sites
deadsoul Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 OP, I also hope you are able to maintain NC. I admire you for sticking it out on this thread. You've received some harsh comments. I have a pretty strong feeling that none of them are harder than the things you've told yourself. I know this because I did the same. The withdrawal is going to be tough, but I urge you to stick with it. I promise it gets easier. It won't feel like it at first, but just take a day at a time, sometimes even an hour at a time. I'm in your corner. You can do this! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
CaliforniaGirl Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Life Lessons, I hope you continue with NC, I hope you post an update years down the line and that you and your H have worked out and that all is well. x I agree. I too hope for the best. OP, if you're serious and you do love your husband, you can do this. But be honest and ask yourself why you were so willing to do this. If you don't take that step, IMO, then it can easily just happen all over again. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Just a Guy Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Hi Life Lessons, I posted a rather harsh post on your thread earlier and I would like to take this opportunity to say how sorry I am for it. I crossed a line which I should not have. No Human Being needs or deserves to be treated as less than one and I sincerely apologize for my indiscretion in doing so. I hope you will forgive me. As others have said, it is good that you have gone NC but the hard part starts now. You will have to maintain it. Also draw inspiration from the stories of other FWW on here who have successfully made it out of the woods of infidelity. Mrs. John Adams is one but there are many others. I am sure they would all be willing to help you in your difficult moments. Whatever happens remember that if you truly love your husband and child then you will do the right thing by them. If you look at all the deceitful things you have done to be able to sustain your affair you will recognize how far you have strayed from the person you are at your core. You have to work hard to recover and regain that core person again. Best wishes. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Life lessons Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 Life lessons, this is total BS. I'm on your side but this is total BS and denial, denial, denial... It's already a PA. You have broken your marriage vows and had sex with another man who is not your husband... And I don't know that your husband will care about anything more than that... And no, you can't stay friends. No, it's not unfair. What's unfair is what you have done to your husband. No contact is the only way if you have any hope of saving your marriage. Yes it was a PA, I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that it was more of an EA. Again, I have stated why I feel this way. I'm not trying to deny what I've done. I realize I messed up, beyond bad. You're right, my H will only care about the fact that I wasn't faithful. I know we can't stay friends and that being unfair to my H is what I was implying. I 100% agree the NC is the only way. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BuddyX Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 So are you actually NC right now? Or are you procrastinating? Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Good morning. Hope you are well, you have had a lot to process these last few days. Just wondering if you have made a counselling appointment this week? I hope you have taken the next step to healing this situation. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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