Wife insisting on pursuing "friendship" with younger man

[Cephalopod]

Why do you think that?

 

 

Are you serious? Go back and read your original post.

[lolablue17]

Well, she is a cheater, that's one thing. But she also a liar and lied to you many times. She was lying to you in the face until you had proofs. What does it mean?

 

First it means that her words mean nothing. DId you read me clearly? IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT SHE SAYS. many red flags, and the only reason she want you to stop guarding her is for being free to cheat again. I believe it's chronic. You can't change that.

 

If you still want to be with her under these circumstances, I advice you to take a decision. Open your marriage. Don't ask her, just open it, and only after you find a girl for you that likes being with you under the open marriage status, then tell her about the new arrangment. What do you care if she likes it or not? she surely doesn't care about anything you care about.

 

I believe this will stop the snooping and the fighting.

[BaileyB]

She clearly brings a lot of baggage from her previous marriage.

 

She is also serial cheater who doesn't know the meaning of the word monogamy.

 

You need to decide if you want all this drama... Do you want an open relationship with a woman who has lied and cheated in the past? That seems to be what you've got, although it's not really an "open" relationship when she has someone lined up on the side in the way she has gone about this... I would call that cheating...

 

It doesn't seem likely that either of you would be successful in a monogamous relationship. If that is what you think you have, or what you hope to have with this woman, you really should go back and reread what you wrote in your first post and think about this again...

[NTV]

I would expect that you know whether or not she's worth all this hoopla.

 

Maybe there's something you're not telling us? What are these mysterious other issues?

[calidad]

I would expect that you know whether or not she's worth all this hoopla.

 

Maybe there's something you're not telling us? What are these mysterious other issues?

 

The other issues? There are a few. Last year I found some skimpy clothes in her car that have never been brought into the house. They are still in her trunk 6 months later. I've never confronted her on that.

 

Also last year she'd disappear sometimes as much as 6 hours during the day. I started questioning her and she became resentful of it. So I put spyware on her computer and started tracking her phone logs. Never found anything conclusive except that she was flirtatious with a handful of people on Facebook. She of course found out I was spying on her and flipped the **** out. This has been used against me time and again now and she claims she's 'living under a microscope'. My response is that she's getting the normal amount of observation of a once cheating spouse and she doesn't like being accountable.

 

She's also lied to my face a number of times about watching porn. She doesn't do it often but still I know for a fact that she's lied and she won't come clean on that so it's another red flag. She had a problem with me wanking to porn and I stopped for her. Like the open relationship, she seems to want one way jerking off.

 

Through all of that though, there's been many many happy times and a lot of love. We make love every single day and have for over 2 1/2 years. Only a few days we've missed. The sex is not nearly as hot as it was though and she's narrowed what we do to 1-2 positions and what used to be 2-3 hours is now 10-25 minutes.

[BaileyB]

If you value trust and monogamy in a relationship, this woman is probably not the right woman for you...

Edited February 23, 2017 by BaileyB

[MJJean]

So, we've established that she's not monogamous and that she lies. What are you going to do about it? Seems the options are accept she occasionally gets some strange and turn a blind eye, drive yourself insane spying on her while she gaslights, blameshifts, and manipulates you, or file for a divorce.

[BluesPower]

The other issues? There are a few. Last year I found some skimpy clothes in her car that have never been brought into the house. They are still in her trunk 6 months later. I've never confronted her on that.

 

Also last year she'd disappear sometimes as much as 6 hours during the day. I started questioning her and she became resentful of it. So I put spyware on her computer and started tracking her phone logs. Never found anything conclusive except that she was flirtatious with a handful of people on Facebook. She of course found out I was spying on her and flipped the **** out. This has been used against me time and again now and she claims she's 'living under a microscope'. My response is that she's getting the normal amount of observation of a once cheating spouse and she doesn't like being accountable.

 

She's also lied to my face a number of times about watching porn. She doesn't do it often but still I know for a fact that she's lied and she won't come clean on that so it's another red flag. She had a problem with me wanking to porn and I stopped for her. Like the open relationship, she seems to want one way jerking off.

 

Through all of that though, there's been many many happy times and a lot of love. We make love every single day and have for over 2 1/2 years. Only a few days we've missed. The sex is not nearly as hot as it was though and she's narrowed what we do to 1-2 positions and what used to be 2-3 hours is now 10-25 minutes.

 

Hold on a minute...

 

Are you serious? Are you really not understanding what is going on here?

 

I mean you had an "open marriage" and it still is for her and it always has been.

 

Come on, is this a real post? You are not really serious about this.

 

And wow you actually get to jerk off inside your wife for 15 to 20 minutes a day. Stop putting us on. No one is really that stupid.

 

Here are your options with this "wife" of yours... I would actually use other words but whatever.

 

1) If you don't want the "hotwife" lifestyle, divorce her yesterday. I mean she won't even allow you to have any side chicks. That is just not fair.

 

2) If you want to be her cuck, you are going to have to talk to her. You what to be allowed to watch and all of her partners have to come to your house or a hotel room of your choosing. I think most guys like you want to video tape the action. So you have to get her to agree to that.

 

But don't go for the cock cage, I hear those things are really uncomfortable.

 

I mean you can have as much fun with this as you want. Yeah, you could start your own website and actually monetize her sexual escapades, now that is something to think about.

 

But hey, you have to negotiate at least one or two girl friends for yourself, or pretty soon you won't even get you 15 to 20 minute jerk off time with your wife.

 

So which way do you want to go with this?????

[calidad]

Kinda f'ed up man. This is a real relationship. Just trying to get some perspective and feedback on navigating. Yes she's been dishonest but I don't have any evidence she's continued to keep her side open.

 

Hold on a minute...

 

Are you serious? Are you really not understanding what is going on here?

 

I mean you had an "open marriage" and it still is for her and it always has been.

 

Come on, is this a real post? You are not really serious about this.

 

And wow you actually get to jerk off inside your wife for 15 to 20 minutes a day. Stop putting us on. No one is really that stupid.

 

Here are your options with this "wife" of yours... I would actually use other words but whatever.

 

1) If you don't want the "hotwife" lifestyle, divorce her yesterday. I mean she won't even allow you to have any side chicks. That is just not fair.

 

2) If you want to be her cuck, you are going to have to talk to her. You what to be allowed to watch and all of her partners have to come to your house or a hotel room of your choosing. I think most guys like you want to video tape the action. So you have to get her to agree to that.

 

But don't go for the cock cage, I hear those things are really uncomfortable.

 

I mean you can have as much fun with this as you want. Yeah, you could start your own website and actually monetize her sexual escapades, now that is something to think about.

 

But hey, you have to negotiate at least one or two girl friends for yourself, or pretty soon you won't even get you 15 to 20 minute jerk off time with your wife.

 

So which way do you want to go with this?????

[oldshirt]

Calidad - you haven't mentioned what she does for work. Is she or did she ever used to be a stripper, escort, nude model etc or have a history of drug addiction, childhood sexual abuse or have a history of mental disorder like a personality disorder or something?

 

Because this is sounding a lot like when naïve beta's and guys with White Knight Syndrome marry strippers, addicts or damaged chicks with personality disorders thinking that their love and support and acceptance will transform them into normal, faithful wives of virtue.

 

It's kind of codependence/enabler type thing. These guys think that if they love and support them enough and give them enough "freedom" that these chicks will love and appreciate them enough that they will somehow morph into a normal, healthy woman with healthy boundaries and self control.

 

I think Dr Laura Schlesinger said it best, "When men rescue damsels in distress, all they have to show for it is a distressed damsel on their hands."

[oldshirt]

And if you haven't seen it yet, you need to watch the video - "Hot Crazy Matrix - A Man's Guide To Women," on You Tube.

 

Regardless of what she does for a living, she is clearly in the "Danger Zone" of the matrix which is the "....redheads, strippers and anyone named Tiffany."

[BluesPower]

You have all the evidence anyone would ever need.

 

Are you reading what you are actually reading what you are writing?

 

What kind evidence do you need to understand what she has been doing?

 

You understand that she has already screwed this young guy, right? Why do you think she did not want you to go to lunch?

 

You simply have got to understand what is going on with her?

 

And hey, don't disparage those people in the Cockold/Hotwife lifestyle, it seems to be a legitimate fetish like some of the others out there. It is not my thing but is it a real fetish.

 

While I may have been sarcastic about that in my earlier post, that is the lifestyle that you are participating in RIGHT NOW, whether you realize it or not.

 

Come on, you cannot tell me that you can read and write and not see all the past and current RED FLAGS that are going on with her????

 

This is what she is and has been doing, whether you want to see it or not.

 

The question is, do you want to be part of this lifestyle that she has chosen for you or do you want another type of marriage.

 

What do you want?

[sandylee1]

Why do you think the clothes are in the boot?

 

I think you should revert to the open relationship, because she's not a one man woman by a long stretch. You're kidding yourself if you think she can be monogamous.

[calidad]

She's a yoga teacher actually.

 

Here's an update. This issue came to a head a few hours ago. We got in a fight about it and a few minutes after she calmed down, came over to me and said "I want to take a lie detector test. In fact I'm happy to do it because I already know what it's going to say".

 

So I've got to decide on this. Either she's bluffing because she thinks I won't make her do it or she's telling the truth.

 

If I do it and she's telling the truth though, it could destroy what's left of the marriage as that's a lot to ask someone to go through.

 

What do you think about this? Is it a bluff? Should I make her do it?

 

Calidad - you haven't mentioned what she does for work. Is she or did she ever used to be a stripper, escort, nude model etc or have a history of drug addiction, childhood sexual abuse or have a history of mental disorder like a personality disorder or something?

 

Because this is sounding a lot like when naïve beta's and guys with White Knight Syndrome marry strippers, addicts or damaged chicks with personality disorders thinking that their love and support and acceptance will transform them into normal, faithful wives of virtue.

 

It's kind of codependence/enabler type thing. These guys think that if they love and support them enough and give them enough "freedom" that these chicks will love and appreciate them enough that they will somehow morph into a normal, healthy woman with healthy boundaries and self control.

 

I think Dr Laura Schlesinger said it best, "When men rescue damsels in distress, all they have to show for it is a distressed damsel on their hands."

[Mumbles]

Calidad - you haven't mentioned what she does for work. Is she or did she ever used to be a stripper, escort, nude model etc or have a history of drug addiction, childhood sexual abuse or have a history of mental disorder like a personality disorder or something?

 

This.

 

A lot of the behaviour being spoke of here directly correlates to my own wife - minus the sneaking around bit ... because we're in an open marriage.

 

Someone else has mentioned that she's already had sex with the young guy, 99.9% certainty there I'm afraid. Why on earth would he still be orbiting her if this wasn't the case?

 

It sounds like the OP wants to keep his relationship and thats fair enough if other aspects of it are good. But, OP, you have to just let her be herself and she is quite obviously a philandress.

 

To the OP, why don't you have a serious open marriage discussion instead of all these arguments? Don't forcefully try to leverage her perceived behaviour to drive home the point, just tell her this is what you'd like, set up some reasonable and realistically _maintainable_ boundaries and live and let live? You can take up your option for other women if you like, or not, your choice. Open marriage opens the door to possibility.. you don't _have_ to have sex with other women if you don't want, but you are able to do so if the want arises. Likewise, she can dally on the side with some strange if or when she wants. It deflates immediately the whole argument around sex and fidelity.

 

Currently, it sounds like the OP is expending a large amount of mental and physical energy trying to contain and gather evidence on activities - but why? Honestly now ... this is demonstrably her personality and its not going to change. Find a way to live in peace with it ... or not .. but if not, then divorce is probably the only realistic way forward.

[Mumbles]

Oh, on the polygraph thing. If she's strongly or even mildly psychopathic, and she might be, then she will probably pass the test regardless of the questions and her actual historical actions.

 

The word Psychopath has a lot of culture based bad connotations but a lot of people suffer this to a larger or lesser degree. One actually bumps into full functioning, low level psychopaths all the time in general life - it might not be this, but don't dismiss the idea without a bit of thought.

[bubbaganoosh]

Ya know whats really funny here? She's the one that cheated. She the one that lied. she's the one that broke the trust. she's the one with the skimpy clothes stuffed in the trunk of her car. She's the one that goes missing for 6 hours at a clip. She's the one that lies up a storm and then she gets pissed off at you because your checking up on you and YES MY FRIEND your accepting the blame like the good door mat you are.

 

Time for you to pull your head out of your ass and start to realize that YOU DON'T HAVE A GOOD MARRIAGE and your doing nothing about it.

 

What you should do is tell her that if she wants an open marriage, then open the front door and tell her "It's open now take yourself out of here" and move on before you start apologizing and take the blame for her piss poor behavior. Sorry if this is blunt but you need to wake up and see it for what it is.

[oldshirt]

If someone gets to the point of needing a polygraph to determine if their spouse is faithful or not - what's the point?

[NTV]

You still hadn't answered me on whether this relationship was worth all this trouble? Is that because you're not sure?

 

To me having been cheated on before if I'm cheated on again in a relationship I'm not ready to leave my response would be something along the lines of " well since you force me into an open relationship I'm going to go exercise my rights and have as much fun as I want"

 

The course no matter how you respond here it really does sound like you're in the death kneel of your marriage.

[oldshirt]

You still hadn't answered me on whether this relationship was worth all this trouble? Is that because you're not sure?

 

.

 

I'm getting the feeling that Calidad is a rescuer and has a nasty case of White Knight Syndrome.

 

 

Guys with WKS think that if they can love and accept and enable these damaged chicks enough and can give them enough support, that they can turn them into normal people.

 

It's like the guys that find an old rusted out junker in the scrap heep and think they can buff it out and turn it in to shiny new, reliable car.

 

They see "worth" where everyone else sees a pile of rust and twisted metal. To them the value comes from feeling like a hero during the fix-up process and not necessarily the street value or performance of the end-product.

 

One of my best friends was one of these rescuers and he would brag about how much drama and trouble he could endure and how much work and effort he could put in to these train wrecks. It's like the tinkerer that likes to have car parts spread all over the garage and spending all his time and energy trying to get an old junker to run----- but doesn't actually like driving it or having a reliable car that works all that much. The fun for them is the fix-up process.

[road]

No, just dump her and be done with it.

 

She's a serial cheater with no boundaries.

 

This pretty much sums it up. Not much else to say

 

Trust me she wants to bang the 23 year old. There's a lot of this going on these days with women having sex with guys young enough to be their sons. I know of 3 such relationships going on right now in real life. You can't trust her as she will always need new sex to feel complete.

 

I'm pretty confident she has been. Come on what else does a 20 yo kid do to hold a 40 something yo woman's attention.

 

She is a serial cheater

She is not wife material, damn she is not even GF material

Dump her

[Cephalopod]

CaliDad, I'm a California man like you, and like you I had a serial cheating wife.

 

Believe me when I say that kicking her to the curb, as painful as it was, is the best thing I ever did for myself and my daughter. The alimony sucks, but it is worth the money I have to shell out every month just to keep that harpy out of our lives.

[calidad]

If someone gets to the point of needing a polygraph to determine if their spouse is faithful or not - what's the point?

 

Good question. For one, it puts the issue to rest. If she comes through as truthful, then we are basically at zero and can start over.

 

There is a lot of love in our relationship and we do have a lot of great times. There's a deep, soulful connection, warmth, genuine affection, and the sex -- even though it hasn't been great lately, when it's good it's off the charts, sheet soaking, better than any porno ever good.

 

Did she **** me over during our early relationship? Big time. Has she lied about wanking to porn? Yes. Has she been secretive and created question marks around her fidelity? Definitely. But do I have any hard evidence that she's cheated? No, nothing.

 

So putting her through the polygraph will tell us what we need to know. If she's a serial cheater, we'll find out and she's gone. If she's been honest about everything and came fully clean 3 years ago, then there's an opportunity for a clean start.

[BettyDraper]

I don't understand why you would marry a serial cheater.

 

This marriage was over before it began. She is going to sleep with the young man.

 

Time to see a lawyer and end this "marriage."

[calidad]

I don't understand why you would marry a serial cheater.

 

This marriage was over before it began. She is going to sleep with the young man.

 

Time to see a lawyer and end this "marriage."

 

What makes you so sure? People do change. She ****ed around in the beginning of our relationship and she owned it. We've had sex almost every day for 3 years. If she were a serial cheater, wouldn't she stop ****ing me? At least for a few days or a week?