Well, I finally saw a therapist.

[ZayKayWill]

Probably not the right place to post this but I just wanted to do it here so everyone saw. I hate to admit it but I'm seriously starting to realize how much my break up took a toll on me. In case you guys don't know the story I basically lost my gf a year ago for buying an ex gf before her that Im still friends with a gift for her bday (there was more to it than that but that was the icing on the cake). It still hurts me a bit since the most recent ex was friends with her ex as well, but oh well. The point is my actions made her uncomfortable and hurt her, which it would to almost anyone who was doing a long distance relationship. I told my story both to people online and IRL. Almost all people online I told said what I did was inappropriate and well I just kind of used the excuse, "Oh theyre online people so of course theyre gonna be mean." But seriously maybe its just me. I was always of the mindset that if they're still really good friends even after break up, then your partner should understand that and still let them be friends, especially if they're upfront and honest about it because at that point what is there to be worried about, right? Not so much...because how do they know you're being faithful even if you are honest? The only true way they can know is if they're constantly spying on you... *sigh*. When it comes to exes the best thing to do is just distance yourself....same holds true for any opposite sex friend. Its okay to be friends, but some distance is necessary...right? Your partner becomes #1 priority even if it requires some sacrifice. Im sure some of you guys could sense some of my angst in some of my posts and well...I guess I just wanted to apologize for that. From this point on I'm just gonna do my best to get over it and just move on from here. Its not gonna be an overnight thing, but Im going to try my best and just do my best to just actually listen to people rather than 'teach them the so called *right* way'. Thanks for listening and again thanks for putting up with me. *sigh* :'(

[salparadise]

Its okay to be friends, but some distance is necessary...right? Your partner becomes #1 priority even if it requires some sacrifice.

 

Its not gonna be an overnight thing, but Im going to try my best and just do my best to just actually listen to people rather than 'teach them the so called *right* way'.

 

Do you actually get this and have it integrated into your awareness, or are you still thinking it *should* be ok, but since nearly everyone else in the world disagrees there's no point in resisting and you'll just pretend to be on board? What did the therapist have to say?

[bluefeather]

I'm glad you are getting help. Please use paragraphs.

[ZayKayWill]

Do you actually get this and have it integrated into your awareness, or are you still thinking it *should* be ok, but since nearly everyone else in the world disagrees there's no point in resisting and you'll just pretend to be on board? What did the therapist have to say?

 

I still have my personal opinions, but when it comes to relationships it's not all about me. I don't think its right to completely ditch friends, but some distance and boundaries are needed. To be honest I didn't see the therapist strictly because of my relationship. I have some anxiety problems...whether the root cause of that was because of my relationship I really don't know but thats why Im seeking help. As for what she said she says when it comes to her she doesn't talk to exes at all and she thought that mw buying that gift meant that maybe I still had feelings for the ex. Told her that wasn't the case, but yeah. Pretty much it.

[mikeylo]

Good luck with therapy.

 

Exes and opposite sex friends are one of the leading causes of issues / breal ups in relationships.

 

Its not late to make amends !

[Ronni_W]

As for what she said she says when it comes to her she doesn't talk to exes at all and she thought that mw buying that gift meant that maybe I still had feelings for the ex. Told her that wasn't the case,

If you're referring to the therapist, I'd strongly encourage you to find a replacement - in a hurry. Especially given your specific situation, the views that this therapist holds about your personal ability to have platonic feelings for opposite-gender individuals, whether exes or not, just does not fit with what you need. She is projecting her inability

to do that, onto you.

 

Personally, I have remained friends with a number of exes, including my now-ex-husband. Not always, but when it works out that way, we do exchange gifts and even go for lunch (far less often dinner) just the two of us without our current partners. And then we also get-together the four of us or in larger groups and maybe or maybe not also including their children. We are friends.

 

How I've done it is, when I started dating someone and they tried to get me to change my circle of friends/support, I made it clear that my true, trusted and valued friends were not going anywhere. If anything, it was the newest person in my life (the one who wanted to date me) who would have to take a hike. Nobody did - I guess they were all secure enough in their own sense of identity and value.

[Gaeta]

As for what she said she says when it comes to her she doesn't talk to exes at all and she thought that mw buying that gift meant that maybe I still had feelings for the ex. Told her that wasn't the case, but yeah. Pretty much it.

 

Who said that? your ex-gf or your therapist?

 

If your therapist said that you need to change therapist. They're not suppose to bring in their personal life or personal opinion into play. They need to keep it 100% professional.

 

Always check a therapist credentials. You want someone with a real license not some mumbo-jumbo self proclaimed therapist.

[ZayKayWill]

If you're referring to the therapist, I'd strongly encourage you to find a replacement - in a hurry. Especially given your specific situation, the views that this therapist holds about your personal ability to have platonic feelings for opposite-gender individuals, whether exes or not, just does not fit with what you need. She is projecting her inability

to do that, onto you.

 

Personally, I have remained friends with a number of exes, including my now-ex-husband. Not always, but when it works out that way, we do exchange gifts and even go for lunch (far less often dinner) just the two of us without our current partners. And then we also get-together the four of us or in larger groups and maybe or maybe not also including their children. We are friends.

 

How I've done it is, when I started dating someone and they tried to get me to change my circle of friends/support, I made it clear that my true, trusted and valued friends were not going anywhere. If anything, it was the newest person in my life (the one who wanted to date me) who would have to take a hike. Nobody did - I guess they were all secure enough in their own sense of identity and value.

 

I gotta say I'm glad that there's someone out there that doesn't think that I'm completely crazy. My relationship was long distance, I live in Arizona and she lives in England. The gift I got the ex before her (Ex 1) was a skydiving certificate. I'm sure that may look weird to most people considering how generous the gift was, but Ex 2 was also friends with her ex boyfriend (best friends if I may add). So I mean I figured she would have totally understood where I came from. Most people said that I probably just shouldn't have told her, but I figured that we could have related in the sense of, 'Oh we still have really good platonic relationships with the ex." That's all. Some people could see where I was coming from, but most people just didn't.

 

Had I not known that information I just wouldn't have told her or just wouldn't have done it I guess. She was far way, so I guess there was really no way for her to see how my relationship with Ex 1 truly was going, but I figured my honesty would have been enough. Again the gift buying wasn't the ONLY thing that led to break up...we had some arguments over some really stupid things honestly and I guess she just couldn't take it anymore. If she had say just told me, "Ok I really didn't appreciate you buying that gift. Just doing it once is fine but just don't do it again." then I would have been willing to compromise that. The way I see it as long as you make your partner a priority there shouldn't be any problems. Doing something like that one time I don't feel was putting her in second place, but say had I kept doing it, then at that point that would have been making Ex 1 on the same level as Ex 2 in terms of priority, ya know?

 

 

And I totally agree with the friends thing. Even though your partner should always come first, the fact of the matter is your friends have been there since the very beginning. For all you know the relationship that you just started may not even work out and then at that point you would have lost your friends AND your relationship....good luck trying to get your friends back at that point, you know? Because they may just tell you to take a hike. Even if you're hanging out with same-sex friends one on one, that doesn't stop the fact that they could still go out to the bar or something with the friend and cheat on you.

 

 

I do believe a little bit of compromise is necessary, though. For example: Don't hang out with anyone (even same sex friends) more than your partner. If you do that, then that indicates that there's something wrong in the relationship/marriage. Has nothing to do with the other people, it's all about the dynamic between the 2 people in the relationship. As for friendships with EXES...that one I'm a bit torn on. I personally don't care if my partner is friends with an ex (again my last ex was best friends with her ex and that was fine with me). In my personal point of view, as long as both partners are being honest and upfront with where their going and who they are spending time with, I don't see any problems.

 

However....and this is the part that I'm really torn on. What if my partner does feel uncomfortable about it (not just with exes, but anyone of the opposite sex)? Sure you could say, "Well they should trust you or not be insecure." But what about all the people that will argue that trust isn't just blindly given to people? I mean...in some senses I guess people DO kind of have to blindly give trust to people (otherwise you wouldn't even be okay with your said partner going outside or having hobbies that you don't share!). But what are the boundaries? For example, in the topic that I made about people going on a trip with a member of the opposite sex without said partner (not purposefully without the partner, just by chance because maybe the work schedule doesn't work or the other partner just doesn't want to go there or something), most people would NOT be okay with that. Their argument was that even IF NOTHING WERE TO HAPPEN, it would still be a dealbreaker to them because they feel that their partner is crossing one of their boundaries. I personally wouldn't mind, because in my mind I don't think that just because 2 people of the opposite sex going on vacation with each other EVEN in a romantic setting would make them start liking each other (or is even really crossing a boundary). Sure, something could happen and temptation could rise up. Even the most trustworthy of people slip up now and then, but that's still their own fault.

 

 

 

 

Temptation is very hard to not give in to, but it's not impossible. Many people have not given into temptation. It's not an impossibility, ESPECIALLY if you truly truly value your S.O. This is just me, but if say a friend of mine were to spread her legs on the bed and insisted I join, it would be VERY hard for me to not want to take the bait. But I know immediately that I would regret doing it for right after doing it, my mind is going to go STRAIGHT to my S.O. I personally would just feel too guilty and would come clean if something like that were to happen. I've had something close like that happen to me, actually. One of my best friends' girlfriends came onto me and we ended up having sex. Didn't tell my friend about it for a while, but I just felt too guilty after a while and came clean...because he's one of my best friends and deserved to know. Again, just make sure I'm still #1 in your life and there are no problems).

 

 

I feel it's all about the chemistry. If there's chemistry, they'll start liking each other. If there's no chemistry, though, then nothing will happen. There's different types of chemistry. Friendship chemistry and romantic chemistry are two of them. When I was still in college I did a Semester Abroad in which I was on a boat for 3 and a half months visiting up to 11 countries! I had met my best friend here, and she's a beautiful woman. In all honesty I kinda wanted something more at the very beginning, but for whatever reason, she just became my best friend. We drank together, went on different adventures in the countries together, we even slept in the same bed together and NOTHING happened. So I feel this is why I have such a different view on how these things work. My partners feelings and life experience is different from mine, though, so maybe to her that just wouldn't work.

 

 

So I guess the big question here is: Since I'm okay with it and some other people (even non-poly people) can be okay with it, does that mean that everyone else should be okay with it as well? Well obviously people will argue no. That some people just have different boundaries, and well that's fair. You can't change people, no matter how much you want to. Again, the way I see it, as long as I'm treated as #1 from my partner, FOR ME no boundaries are crossed. I guess when it all comes down to it, you need to sit down with your partner and just discuss these things. Some things will be allowed and others I guess just won't be. That's the beauty of communicating these things with your partner, though. You get to see each others point of view on the topic and you learn new things about it and choose what you are and aren't okay with. In reality, though, this is all a part of how a relationship grows. There will never be a time in life when people stop communicating how they feel about certain things. Idk. What do you guys think? Again, PLEASE feel free to say if I'm wrong. I'm here to learn. If I have the last word, then GREAT! MUWAHAHAHAHAH BOW TO ME!!!!!! If I'm wrong, though, then well, of course I would obviously like to know that. Why I'm in therapy...in all honesty I consider talking to you guys a type of therapy as well.

 

 

PS: Sorry again for the long essay. As you can see this is something I'm truly passionate about.

[ZayKayWill]

Who said that? your ex-gf or your therapist?

 

If your therapist said that you need to change therapist. They're not suppose to bring in their personal life or personal opinion into play. They need to keep it 100% professional.

 

Always check a therapist credentials. You want someone with a real license not some mumbo-jumbo self proclaimed therapist.

 

The therapist said that. My ex girlfriend was actually best friends with her ex boyfriend, hence why I was so surprised at how angry she got with me. :/

[Weezy1973]

Just a note that ANYBODY can be a therapist - there are no credentials behind that term. You want to see a psychologist (they had a PhD) or at minimum a counsellor (they have a Masters). And as Gaeta said, you want to make sure they're certified. And even then, sometimes it takes awhile to fine the right "fit".

[Gaeta]

The therapist said that. My ex girlfriend was actually best friends with her ex boyfriend, hence why I was so surprised at how angry she got with me. :/

 

Why in the world would you go see this therapist? At the moment she realized you 2 had a tie in your past she should have stopped the conversation and referred you to another therapist.

[ZayKayWill]

Why in the world would you go see this therapist? At the moment she realized you 2 had a tie in your past she should have stopped the conversation and referred you to another therapist.

 

Yeah :/ tbh I think she was just a counselor. IIRC I think she said she was working on her PhD in Neuroscience or something like that, but still was just a counselor. So yeah. I'm gonna find someone else. I really appreciate the support, guys. Thank you so much.

[Ronni_W]

The gift I got the ex before her (Ex 1) was a skydiving certificate. I'm sure that may look weird to most people considering how generous the gift was,

To my mind, the price of the gift has nothing to do with anything. You are a self-governing, thinking adult and you have the free-will right to decide and choose to spend however much OF YOUR OWN PERSONAL AND HARD-EARNED (non-jointly-held or assigned) FUNDS you want to spend, on whatever you want to spend it. We get to choose the cost we are willing to pay for our own sacrifices and our own wants, needs, desires and whims.

 

Had I not known that information [that my then-g/f would not understand or accept my view and stand] I just wouldn't have told her or just wouldn't have done it I guess.

To my mind and because this is a non-spouse/non-cohabiting partner, there is a third option: clearly, firmly and kindly explain that how I choose to spend my own money is really none of his/her business. I would most certainly not try to hide any of my decisions/actions or be dishonest or lie through omission about it.

 

The way I see it as long as you make your partner a priority <snip> Even though your partner should always come first,

For me, there is a HUGE difference and distinction between putting a partner’s proper and reasonable needs and desires first, versus catering or caving in to their unreasonable requests, demands and expectations, and making the fulfillment of these latter things my priority. I, personally, simply won’t do it. And, yes, I do get to decide for myself what is someone else’s unreasonable expectation, request or demand upon myself.

 

However....and this is the part that I'm really torn on. What if my partner does feel uncomfortable about it <snip> what about all the people that will argue that trust isn't just blindly given to people? <snip> what are the boundaries? <snip> Their argument was that even IF NOTHING WERE TO HAPPEN, it would still be a dealbreaker to them because they feel that their partner is crossing one of their boundaries.

Every person has the right to set his or her own boundaries and deal-breakers. After much trial, error and tribulation, , I’ve determined/decided that one of my boundaries is that I won’t consciously or willingly [1] give in to emotional manipulation or blackmail or, [2] cater to other people’s expectations and unreasonable requests or demands.

What does it matter if people are engaging in these types of behaviour on account of their usually-self-diagnosed ‘trust issues’ or ‘insecurity issues’ (or whatever other type of undiagnosed or non-medical psychological issue)? I, you, we are not responsible or obligated to help other people stay undisturbed and comfortable in their ‘issues’ – allowing them to just wallow and stay stuck there. In fact, we’re not even doing them any favours or service by taking on the responsibility to act like their emotional doormat or doorkeeper. (For which, by the way and to be sure, down the road we’re only going to feel resentful, pissed off and used/unappreciated – and this despite the fact and even though they never asked us to take on that role in the first place.)

 

It’s to our own detriment to just keep supporting them in their own sense that they’re somehow entitled to just keep using their ‘issues’ as their excuse to ‘rug-sweep’ or ignore, rationalize away or justify their emotional garbage/vomit and their negative impact on the people around them.

 

Voi! We each have our own set of emotional wounds and psychological blocks – healing of which should be and we should make our priority, even ahead of our partner’s not getting upset or having some freak-out melt-down over this or that event or condition. (We get to set ‘shoulds’ and ‘should nots’ for ourselves...but not ever for others.)

 

Temptation is very hard to not give in to,

No, it’s not nearly half as difficult for self-confident, high-self-esteem people to stand up and make the efforts needed for them to stay in alignment and integrity with their own self-determined, self-defined personal principles and philosophy about who they are, who they want to be and how they want to represent themselves and live in this world. It does take self-control, self-discipline and self-determination, yes, but that is all.

When we do this, we will be trustworthy – and ALL the people who know we are doing this will trust us. (If their ‘trust issues’ preclude them from trusting trustworthy people, then that is exclusively on them.)

 

Now; yes, on meeting new people (romantic, professional, whatever), there is an inherent need for and element of ‘blind trust’ – but, again, this is only in the initial stages. However, the onus then falls on us to be realistic and honest with ourselves when/if we see signs of untrustworthiness – lies; deception; fabrication; making excuses for own bad behaviour; putting unreasonable demands and expectations on others; trying to block or limit how others express their opinions, thoughts and feelings; trying to block or limit what other people can and cannot or ‘should’ and ‘should not’ do as part of their own self-expression.

Engaging in, or getting involved with people who engage in, this type of attitude or mindset and behaviour is courting unhappiness and unfulfillment – and self-doubt, resentment and guilt or blame – that will be felt at some point in the future, sooner or later.

 

So I guess the big question here is: Since I'm okay with it and some other people <snip> can be okay with it, does that mean that everyone else should be okay with it as well?

No, OF COURSE it does not mean that! (What the heck are you smoking over there??? )

 

Seriously. When it comes to humans and human relations, in every circumstance/situation and about anything and everything, there really is no ‘should be’ and there really is no ‘should not be’; and, you can know this for yourself just through your own outer, reasoning-logical mind.

To wit, for you (or me) to tell someone else, “You ‘should’ (or ‘should not’) feel okay with this;” or, “You ‘should’ (or ‘should not’) want to take this particular action;” or, “You ‘should’ (or ‘should not’) believe in and live by this particular creed, philosophy or thought system” --- what, actually, are we doing but trying to force our own paradigms and worldviews and unreasonable expectations and requests onto other people; trying to put our own needs, wants, opinions, desires and whims on them; trying to make our own free-will thoughts, decisions, choices and opinions superior over theirs - as if you, I, we have cornered the market on what is 'better', 'best', 'most appropriate', ‘right’, ‘proper’, ‘reasonable’ and possible in this world...and what is not.

 

So...you ‘should not’ want to do that! .

 

Warmly,

Ronni

 

PS: Hhmmm...I seem to be a little passionate about this, myself.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Ronni_W
grammar

[preraph]

It's good you finally understand how someone would feel about what you did and why. I mean, that's important. And I'm sorry, but yes you do have feelings for the ex. Maybe not urgent love feelings, but you've got them and you were willing to risk your relationship to buy her a gift.

 

Now, I know better than most how complex an after breakup relationship can be. I am still friends with an ex bf from the 1970s, although I have not had sex with him since then when he betrayed me with my best friend. But I know how it can be that some part of you is friends with them despite the fact you know it's playing with fire. And it is playing with fire. At weak moments, there can be close calls.

 

But mainly, it's like you said in your first post on this thread, and that is that most people cannot trust you if you do something like that. Exes are best kept on an acquaintance level while you're in a relationship and if you do see them, you better take your partner with you and never do it alone. I actually see my ex and his wife about once a year, and then we just stay in touch in between, on a light level. We may trade music once in awhile, but that's because we were both working in music together and that's our common bond. No birthday gifts or anything more than a Christmas card from the whole family.

 

Don't let anyone tell you not to go to the therapist. It's been good for you. You can always change therapists if you feel you hit a dead end.

[thefooloftheyear]

Good job.....

 

I'll reiterate what I said in your other thread....

 

Its not about trust...Its all about consideration...

 

TFY

[ZayKayWill]

It's good you finally understand how someone would feel about what you did and why. I mean, that's important. And I'm sorry, but yes you do have feelings for the ex. Maybe not urgent love feelings, but you've got them and you were willing to risk your relationship to buy her a gift.

 

Now, I know better than most how complex an after breakup relationship can be. I am still friends with an ex bf from the 1970s, although I have not had sex with him since then when he betrayed me with my best friend. But I know how it can be that some part of you is friends with them despite the fact you know it's playing with fire. And it is playing with fire. At weak moments, there can be close calls.

 

But mainly, it's like you said in your first post on this thread, and that is that most people cannot trust you if you do something like that. Exes are best kept on an acquaintance level while you're in a relationship and if you do see them, you better take your partner with you and never do it alone. I actually see my ex and his wife about once a year, and then we just stay in touch in between, on a light level. We may trade music once in awhile, but that's because we were both working in music together and that's our common bond. No birthday gifts or anything more than a Christmas card from the whole family.

 

Don't let anyone tell you not to go to the therapist. It's been good for you. You can always change therapists if you feel you hit a dead end.

 

 

With all due respect are you saying I have feelings for the first ex in the sense that I'd get back with them if given the chance? Because if so that's not true. We've been single multiple times on the same occasion and never have I wanted to get back with her. That's not to say that there isn't that possibility in the future (you have the potential to get with any of your opposite sex friends exes or not), but no, I have absolutely no desire to get back with her. She is a friend and nothing more. And yes, it did cost me my relationship, but c'mon. Had I known that what would have happened happened I would NOT have done it.

[ZayKayWill]

Also, preraph I'm not gonna lie I've noticed some of your posts in the past and (to me) it seems like you assume that if someone is nice to a person of the opposite sex, it means that they inevitably like them. If you think I'm talking crazy I have a few topics I can link you to that make me think what I think. And I'm sorry, but you're wrong. I know you have your perspective and experience, and only you can change that, but if you're really gonna be one of those people that say that I have feelings for someone just for being nice, then I'm sorry, but I may just have to put you on my ignore list...sorry but I'm just really tired of dealing with that kind of poison in my life. :/

[preraph]

Sorry you don't like my advice (per your PM). Honestly I have no other substantial thoughts on it but you could just ask yourself a couple of questions.

 

Has my ex bought me a present since the breakup?

 

Given the choice, would I rather have my first ex back or my second ex back?

 

Are you going to send your second ex a gift too?

 

Good luck.

[ZayKayWill]

I appreciate your advice I really do. It just bothers me when people jump the gun that people still have feelings just for nice gestures such as the one I did is all.

 

And to answer your question at this point I don't want either of them back really. Even though I may have made some mistakes the first ex was a bit flaky. This was the 3rd time she broke up with me, so I mean she was a bit unstable. I would love to give it one more chance, but I just don't see that happening. I would definitely choose her over the 1st ex though if that answers anything.

[ZayKayWill]

Hey guys. Just wanted to update you on my status as of now. I'm seeing a life coach right now..[who] has been awesome and way better than the last therapist I saw.

 

I've done a lot of thinking and.....*sigh*.....I was wrong......I was so so wrong.....

 

I can't believe I'm saying this but...the way I view relationships just isn't practical...I view relationships as more 'how they should be' and not 'how they actually are'. IDEALLY opposite gender friendships should be no problem, but sadly...that's not how emotions work. Logically maybe that's probably true. But we're emotional animals. All there is to it. Some people will be okay with it, and some people would even be okay with my particular gesture (my Life Coach herself said she wouldn't have cared about what I did) but....most people just won't be. And honestly...that's okay. As you get older, people grow apart...just the way life is. Getting coffee or meeting up every once in a while will probably be fine with most people, but getting close is just iffy... :/

 

You guys must think I'm crazy. I'm sure some of you noticed my Opposite Sex Friends FAQ....I honestly didn't make that in order to convince you guys that 'I'm right'...if you notice in the very last bullet. I did it strictly for myself...to put my own ego in check....I made a stupid mistake and she isn't coming back :/. Maybe she was being a hypocrite, but oh well. There's nothing I can do about it. I am so sorry for making you guys put up with me. I lost someone I really cared about...and now I have to pay for it. Ugh. I am so sorry..... I'm gonna try my best to continue posting here to keep my ego 'in check' so I don't relapse to old behaviors I guess. I feel awful. Whatever you guys have to say I am open ears...from now on I work with you guys...and not against you.... :/

Edited June 6, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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