Letting go, a little at a time(sunshine, out, blue and the rest of the crew)

[deadsoul]

Yes, I'm also wondering about this friendship thing.

 

I know that would never work for me, especially since BH and I are working on R. And to be honest, I'd be too scared that it would be so easy to get pulled back in. He was a drug to me and I know now I have to stay completely away and NC or I'm scared I'd get right back into it again. It's scary to admit that, especially since I never want to go back to where I was... but I don't trust myself at this point. I hope it changes.

[deadsoul]

We ran into some lady my husband used to go to school with this weekend. She was BEAUTIFUL and single and you can bet your cookies my jealousy spiked through the roof. Here was this amazing woman, who never hurt my husband the way I have, single, and obviously knows my husband. Who am I to stand next to her? It hurt- I have to admit.

 

You are right - affairs are a doorway to another side - a loss of something in your marriage you can never get back. Sometimes it can be the grit you both need to make it better and sometimes it does the opposite. Only time will tell in our case but damn right i was one jealous wife.

 

Can I just tell you? Being in the infidelity club sucks. How easy would it be for the betrayed spouse to say, "You did it to me, so why shouldn't I do it back?" I feel like nothing will ever be the same again. Hell. I still am not even sure .we are going to R at this point.

[deadsoul]

It's like fighting the urge for anything you are trying to quit. You kind of suffer through the feeling and the feeling subsides. Then next time you know it will eventually fade a bit. You just tell yourself not to do or you will be right back at square one.

 

Plus, obviously now I literally could not reach out since his wife reads his emails but before that, I'd keep a few particularly good emails which would make me remember how stupid I felt when I'd reach out and he'd write back, some jazzy response reminding me how he could only be my friend now. That was basically how I really stopped contacting him. To witness firsthand how I had meant nothing and how he really was fine, how I was lamenting over something that was just a big lie designed to get me into bed - it was pretty humiliating. And when I spoke to him, I would feel so horrible about myself, so worthless.

 

Does it ever go away? Well yes of course. I know I've been very upset and hung up on people in my past and its gone now. Everything passes. Your problem is that you see him. It keeps the pain fresh. I lived that for a year. It's been 3 months for me now, except that one encounter. I do feel better but the feelings of humiliation and anger at myself do remain.

 

Blue, So much of what you write really affects me. I feel/felt all of these things too. I wish I had something worthy to type here, but I just want you to know you aren't alone in these thoughts.

[Outofmysystem]

Deadsoul, it really is like Blue says, it is a drug....a very powerful one at that....the conversations, the texts, for me the emails as soon as we were apart and the sex, all held me like I've never have before....

 

Still get some (1 1/2 years later) triggers that rush the chemicals in my brain and they just take over as I re-live the memory till it passes....never felt that before....it doesn't last as long as it used to, but I'm at my old store where there are triggers all around, people we both know, restaurants where we went for lunch....the garage where most of the sex happened....yea.....it's tough sometimes.

 

But then I substitute the reality now of her, how she is with the unsuspecting new *******, what they are doing together, her (now worse since her divorce) circumstances from her bad decisions and her alcoholic tendencies....and I count myself lucky.

[HeCantBreakMe]

Deadsoul, it really is like Blue says, it is a drug....a very powerful one at that....the conversations, the texts, for me the emails as soon as we were apart and the sex, all held me like I've never have before....

 

Still get some (1 1/2 years later) triggers that rush the chemicals in my brain and they just take over as I re-live the memory till it passes....never felt that before....it doesn't last as long as it used to, but I'm at my old store where there are triggers all around, people we both know, restaurants where we went for lunch....the garage where most of the sex happened....yea.....it's tough sometimes.

 

But then I substitute the reality now of her, how she is with the unsuspecting new *******, what they are doing together, her (now worse since her divorce) circumstances from her bad decisions and her alcoholic tendencies....and I count myself lucky.

 

That is the crazy thing in all of this and what lets me know it is a complete and utter unhealthy addiction to this other person - is that you can look at them and in some part of your rational brain think "I know i would not be good with this person". In my case he drank too much, was a complete hot head, not nearly as good hearted and motivated as my husband, would at some point cheat on me- but yet... but yet.. there is this weird addiction and I know the emotions would cloud out any rational part of my brain; hence the reason for complete and utter NC.

 

And Dead I completely agree i truly wish i was not in this terrible infidelity club. Please someone wake me up from this self-induced nightmare.

[Chica80]

I am surprised, how are you doing with the friendship? Is it hard ?

 

Well I'm not going to lie. It is not easy, and I should say it's a process we are moving towards. If that makes sense.

 

Like I said there are some things going on in my personal/family life. He has been there the whole time. I can count on him. He has proven that time and again.

 

As lovers....no...as friends yes always...so that's where we are.

[Jemima1234]

Sunshine I would love to know more about what friendship looks like as am in a similar place!!!

 

Does his wife know you are friends? How much contact do you have? Do you see him? Is there no physical intimacy at all?

[Chica80]

Sunshine I would love to know more about what friendship looks like as am in a similar place!!!

 

Does his wife know you are friends? How much contact do you have? Do you see him? Is there no physical intimacy at all?

 

His wife knows we are friends. I'm not a secret in his life (our affair yes but me personally, no).

 

There hasn't been physical intimacy in months. But that has never really been the focus of our relationship. (there has been opportunity, but we didn't do anything)

We text everyday some days more than others. We talk sometimes on the phone when it has been a couple days.

We see eachother a couple times a week. (we work together)

 

This is new though. I tried to end everything a couple months ago. that didn't last long. And then some personal things happened...so that kind of took the focus over everything else.

 

I would not say everything is totally on the up and up (obv) given our history.

But we are trying. Like weaning....I guess.

 

He doesn't want to hurt me I don't want him to hurt so if the only way to stay in eachother's lives is legitimate friends not lying or hiding than that's what it will have to be.

[road]

I won't repost my story, but anyone who read or participated in the thread I started (destabilization phase..) it's been four months since exMM broke it off, since we've had any physical contact. He blocked me and we didn't talk at all for the first month or more.. but we have talked some in the time since, and by that I mean mostly tidbits of arguments about the whole thing. I am about 90% sure he is having some sort of relationship with one of HIS employees (he's over one of the departments in our organization, was never my boss) who is ten years younger than him. And I have called him out on it, which he denies of course, and other people have noticed the flirting, etc too. I still hurt every day.. but it's becoming less unbearable. Since I witnessed the flirting a few weeks ago, and told him what I thought, I have felt a lot more detached from the situation. When I think about it it hurts, but I'm more angry and disgusted that he fed me the excuse it was too risky with our jobs. I feel like, for the first time during this three year mess, if he came back right now, I wouldn't want him. And that's a big step for me. He's known he's had me on a fish hook for too long. He knows now how angry and disgusted I am, I've been meaner and more cold to him the past few weeks than I ever have. I finally feel like I can beat this. I realize he's never coming back.. and I finally think I realize that's a good thing.. where are all of you? Still in, trying to get out, still NC? Let me know!!

 

This is why it is said: when they cheat with you they will cheat on you also.

[Jemima1234]

His wife knows we are friends. I'm not a secret in his life (our affair yes but me personally, no).

 

There hasn't been physical intimacy in months. But that has never really been the focus of our relationship. (there has been opportunity, but we didn't do anything)

We text everyday some days more than others. We talk sometimes on the phone when it has been a couple days.

We see eachother a couple times a week. (we work together)

 

This is new though. I tried to end everything a couple months ago. that didn't last long. And then some personal things happened...so that kind of took the focus over everything else.

 

I would not say everything is totally on the up and up (obv) given our history.

But we are trying. Like weaning....I guess.

 

He doesn't want to hurt me I don't want him to hurt so if the only way to stay in eachother's lives is legitimate friends not lying or hiding than that's what it will have to be.

 

Thank you. That's really interesting and kind of what I am teuing to work out just now! Don't know if it's possible - think it may hurt too much but will see

[Birdies]

That is the crazy thing in all of this and what lets me know it is a complete and utter unhealthy addiction to this other person - is that you can look at them and in some part of your rational brain think "I know i would not be good with this person". In my case he drank too much, was a complete hot head, not nearly as good hearted and motivated as my husband, would at some point cheat on me- but yet... but yet.. there is this weird addiction and I know the emotions would cloud out any rational part of my brain; hence the reason for complete and utter NC.

 

And Dead I completely agree i truly wish i was not in this terrible infidelity club. Please someone wake me up from this self-induced nightmare.

 

This discussion is really interesting to me. I have a way different perspective but can still relate so much! In my case, the MM and I both ended our marriages and have been together for a year or so now. And things are great between us (not to say we're not both doing a lot of hard work to assess our boundaries and coping skills, dealing with a lot of guilt, etc - but that's beside my point here).

 

Things are great between us and I DO love him and he loves me and we're really really good together.... but it's still SUCH a different dynamic than the affair. All of the insane rush of emotions, the limerance, the feeling on fire just from someone's touch, etc is obviously a product of the forbidden and limited nature of the affair, rather than a product of that person. We still love each other's company and the sex is really great but that addictive rush has changed. In my case, that's a good thing, those feelings are not sustainable or healthy.

 

Anyway I'm kind of rambling, but I guess my point is that EVEN IF you two are "meant to be" together etc - it wouldn't feel like it did when it was an affair. I'm a scientist so I've found this before-and-after comparison really fascinating.

 

Also before anyone starts with the "you've just opened up a place for another mistress" stuff... I'm not naive, and we're addressing those issues head on.

[HeCantBreakMe]

This discussion is really interesting to me. I have a way different perspective but can still relate so much! In my case, the MM and I both ended our marriages and have been together for a year or so now. And things are great between us (not to say we're not both doing a lot of hard work to assess our boundaries and coping skills, dealing with a lot of guilt, etc - but that's beside my point here).

 

Things are great between us and I DO love him and he loves me and we're really really good together.... but it's still SUCH a different dynamic than the affair. All of the insane rush of emotions, the limerance, the feeling on fire just from someone's touch, etc is obviously a product of the forbidden and limited nature of the affair, rather than a product of that person. We still love each other's company and the sex is really great but that addictive rush has changed. In my case, that's a good thing, those feelings are not sustainable or healthy.

 

Anyway I'm kind of rambling, but I guess my point is that EVEN IF you two are "meant to be" together etc - it wouldn't feel like it did when it was an affair. I'm a scientist so I've found this before-and-after comparison really fascinating.

 

Also before anyone starts with the "you've just opened up a place for another mistress" stuff... I'm not naive, and we're addressing those issues head on.

 

Some cases are different Birdies as you know- there are the small percentages of affairs turned relationships that work and hopefully in your case it is sustainable. What happens (from what I have studied) is that during an affair the 'halo effect' takes place where you minimize all of your AP's shortcomings and only see the good. Limerence lasts anywhere from 3-36 months and so once you end your marriage and start a real relationship the limerence wears off (which is normal), and as you said a good thing because no one wants to be 'addicted' to someone else. But what happens that makes affairs difficult to maintain is that once the limerence wears off the halo effect goes away and all of the negative qualities that you (or whomever) overlooked start to become reality and people start to think ' what the hell did I give up for this person'.

 

In my case, my xAP, was never someone I would have looked twice at. We had a friendship prior to the affair and I even remember thinking at one point " i feel bad for his wife he is such a hothead" . I know that had we ended up together and i finally start thinking rationally again i would have realized what a flipping idiot I had been to give up my family for a man I really didn't mesh well with. I also know he would cheat on me again because he would never have been willing to put the work in to take care of his issues that caused him to be unhappy in his marriage in the first place, and then caused him to choose to have an affair. He was always one to blame his wife and never himself- which is a huge red flag in any case.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I used to be in the place you all are. I now feel somewhat advanced. I can assure you it does change but it is not necessarily this wonderful freeing feeling. Sometimes you see someone post how fabulous their life is, how their marriage is all better, life is grand, they are over the xmm, it's all just peachy.

 

It's not like that. It's more like returning to the place where you used to live, except the fire rolled through and scorched the earth. The fire is gone but the remnants remain. You have good days and bad days. Sometimes you almost forget, but it's sort of still there, not so much thinking about xmm like you used to all the time, but more this awareness that things are just different. I would use the word sobering.

 

Some people use this time to be anything but - they drown themselves in liquor, activities, work, sports, anything to avoid being still and reflecting on the havoc you have caused and brought into your own life. If you sit still, you think a lot. The more you think and search for answers, you will find them in unexpected places. They will not come out of the mouth of xmm though.

 

For me, I have learned that it is true what you read here. These guys lie. They lie to their wives, they lie to you. I read a lot here about the lamenting of a friendship. I was there too. I'm not now. These guys, they are not our friends. They never were. Now we were friends to them, I will give you that. But it was one sided. There is nothing to be sad about. You didn't lose anything you never had in the first place.

 

Like the layers of an onion, I've been finding out things and it stinks. It's odd too. My life is not a soap opera. Typically when a person leaves my life, I never see or hear of them again. I found out more lies when I ran into him last month. This week, someone from our group long ago showed up and for whatever reason, told me a number of things about xmm which were the direct opposite of things he told me - nothing to do with his marriage, these were things about himself. She told me that xmm put on a total act in the group, he was a very different person outside of the group.

 

I'm being vague, no one wants to read a novel. The point I realized was that it was all lies, more than just the I love you stuff, but his entire personality - created. I never knew who he was, I knew the image he wanted me to see. A lot of the lies over the years are odd. It's like he lied about anything, what he ate, music he liked, his interests, skills, activities. For example, he told me he was not into music, meanwhile I just found out he was a professional music player of an instrument. I'll be honest when I say, I really don't get it.I'm not really sure why but I'm going to go with that he created the persona he felt would get me to basically sleep with him. I can just tell you that it is very odd to learn that the person you knew for 4 years was all a fabrication.

 

So where I am now is that xmm is gone because he never existed and I'm left with this hole. A big space. I'm at a loss to explain it.

[CantgetoveritNY]

Blue - lets not be sexist here. If you were to substitute "her' and "husbands" for "him" and "wives" in your post, you would be describing my fWW to a tee.

 

Women can be just as soulless and manipulative as men. I'm sure her xAP only saw what she wanted him to see. Who she was with me was a complete fabrication as well, until we got married.

[Chica80]

Thank you. That's really interesting and kind of what I am teuing to work out just now! Don't know if it's possible - think it may hurt too much but will see

 

It will never be easy if you are only thinking of your own pain. How much it hurts, how much you miss him, need him.....etc

 

I miss him I miss how we were but if I think about how this affects him, how this hurts him, how it affects other people around us then it becomes a bit easier.

 

Like I said it's a process, I wouldn't say we are totally in the friend zone but definitely more than before.....

 

Or who knows maybe we are just transitioning to something else....not sure.

[deadsoul]

I used to be in the place you all are. I now feel somewhat advanced. I can assure you it does change but it is not necessarily this wonderful freeing feeling. Sometimes you see someone post how fabulous their life is, how their marriage is all better, life is grand, they are over the xmm, it's all just peachy.

 

It's not like that. It's more like returning to the place where you used to live, except the fire rolled through and scorched the earth. The fire is gone but the remnants remain. You have good days and bad days. Sometimes you almost forget, but it's sort of still there, not so much thinking about xmm like you used to all the time, but more this awareness that things are just different. I would use the word sobering.

 

Some people use this time to be anything but - they drown themselves in liquor, activities, work, sports, anything to avoid being still and reflecting on the havoc you have caused and brought into your own life. If you sit still, you think a lot. The more you think and search for answers, you will find them in unexpected places. They will not come out of the mouth of xmm though.

 

You didn't lose anything you never had in the first place.

 

 

 

So where I am now is that xmm is gone because he never existed and I'm left with this hole. A big space. I'm at a loss to explain it.

 

I think you've once again nailed it with this post. I do feel like a fire has run through my life and scorched everything. A fire I started. A fire that caused so many consequences and I caused them.

 

There are so many up and down days in my household right now, I don't know which way is up. I just muddle through the best I can.

 

It's frustrating because the limerence is still there a bit. I'm able to put those thoughts aside much easier though, but today has been a harder day than others.

 

I've been listening to a lot of Nine Inch Nails lately. Hence my user name....

[Outofmysystem]

Dead, good choice of bands...although they can get bleek at times....music will trigger for sure, I go through periods of playlists that do nothing but that, I just let it play though till the memories are finished and move on.....but it does feel like sometimes just "going through the motions".

 

Scorched earth

[FoundMyStrength]

I do feel like a fire has run through my life and scorched everything. A fire I started. A fire that caused so many consequences and I caused them.

 

This says it all. I also feel like I took a flamethrower to my life and my heart and my spirit. 6 months later, and I'm just beginning to see some green shoots sprouting up from the destruction. I feel lucky, in some ways. I'm at a transition point where I get to pack up all of my stuff in a few months and move to a new city and a new job and the start of a new career. I don't think that I'll get past this feeling of utter destruction until I'm there. Only a few months to go. Then, maybe, I can forget him and all of the mistakes I made.

[Outofmysystem]

I don't recommend this, however it's what I'm doing anyway, good or bad, it is what it is. I'm still in full NC (6 months), I have to fight my "tendencies" to think of her (DXOW) of how she "was", not how she "is" right now....again, brain over heart... as logical as I can be, or anyone for that matter, that time, those words and feelings still linger even after all this time. Facebook, as ****ed up as it is still keeps me in the present. I will get to the point that I don't look anymore, I have gone stretches of weeks without....but seeing her posts initially shock my system, then desensitize me after the initial flood of chemicals....it's working for me at the moment.....it is a process, not a fun one, but a process nonetheless.

[Outofmysystem]

There is a band I like about to put out a new album at the end of this month.....one of the songs will be called, "wasted all my time", one of the lines I heard was, "wasted all my time ****ing you, wasted all my money buying **** for you too"....sounds like I'll be playing that over and over for awhile, lol.

[deadsoul]

I don't recommend this, however it's what I'm doing anyway, good or bad, it is what it is. I'm still in full NC (6 months), I have to fight my "tendencies" to think of her (DXOW) of how she "was", not how she "is" right now....again, brain over heart... as logical as I can be, or anyone for that matter, that time, those words and feelings still linger even after all this time. Facebook, as ****ed up as it is still keeps me in the present. I will get to the point that I don't look anymore, I have gone stretches of weeks without....but seeing her posts initially shock my system, then desensitize me after the initial flood of chemicals....it's working for me at the moment.....it is a process, not a fun one, but a process nonetheless.

 

FB is "pain shopping" I was doing that too. That's why I had to delete all my social media. It was hard to do, but I'm glad I did it. I hope that you eventually are able to quit doing that because all it does is cause more pain.

 

You'll have to let me know what that song is. I may need it too....

[MidnightBlue1980]

I don't recommend this, however it's what I'm doing anyway, good or bad, it is what it is. I'm still in full NC (6 months), I have to fight my "tendencies" to think of her (DXOW) of how she "was", not how she "is" right now....again, brain over heart... as logical as I can be, or anyone for that matter, that time, those words and feelings still linger even after all this time. Facebook, as ****ed up as it is still keeps me in the present. I will get to the point that I don't look anymore, I have gone stretches of weeks without....but seeing her posts initially shock my system, then desensitize me after the initial flood of chemicals....it's working for me at the moment.....it is a process, not a fun one, but a process nonetheless.

 

How do you see her posts? Are you friends or does she post global?

 

If she posts global, she may be doing it on purpose in case you are reading it.

 

In my situation, he does not post anything global and its the same picture from 2014. We are connected on Linked In, but he does not post. I do know what you mean about staying in the present. Seeing him last month was the best thing to happen to me. I had been living in my mind, in 2015.

 

I'm somewhat all over the place. Some days I am one way, others, a different way. I can feel totally moved on only to feel sad, bad or used. Today I realized I've been acting like this pitiful victim, scared, giving him all the power. I rearranged everything so I did not have to go back there to see my client this month, and while that is fine, I also should not give a sh*t about if I have to see him. I'm carrying on over someone who used me and moved on over a year ago without a concern. I need to focus on increasing my own self worth.

[Outofmysystem]

Blue, I have access through friends, I'm not on it myself. Signals for me?, not likely....she knows where I'm at, has my phone number, old email address we used....she hasn't reached out once unless it was to respond to me giving her more stuff, birthday, Christmas, just because....and that always was a, "thank you but...." type of thing.....she has changed into someone I don't recognize anymore, which again, it is what it is.

 

Dead, ill hit you up when it releases and I get to hear the whole song.....and yes, I get the pain part, but it forces me out of my "fantasy" thoughts of her.....her situation is ****ed (her choices), she looks ****ed up, her new boyfriend is ugly as hell, she's drinking like she can't get enough.....

 

Reality.