Another one bites the dust !

[Downtown]

Downtown , l was just reading more and l completely forgot the abandonment thing which seems to be at the core of BPD. And you see , this is yet another part in this that just doesn't quite fit with gf.

Chilli, yes, that is a core feature of strong BPD behavior. If you are not seeing a strong fear of abandonment, you are not seeing a pattern of behavior called "BPD." In that regard, there are two warning signs for the abandonment fear in my list of 18 red flags. One is the fear itself (item #9, which you did not tick) and the other is the way it manifests itself in the form of "irrational jealousy and controlling behavior" (item #3, which you did tick).

 

If you ticked off item #3 only because of the controlling behavior but not the irrational jealousy, then you seem to be saying you do not see a strong abandonment fear. If that is the case, you are NOT seeing a strong pattern of BPD behavior. As I stated earlier (post 4 above),

I caution that, if her rages are often triggered by anyone (e.g., other drivers on the freeway), you are describing red flags for IED (Intermittent Explosive Disorder). In contrast, with nearly all BPDers, the only people who trigger their rages typically are their partners or very close friends or family members.

BPDers have great fears of abandonment and engulfment.

 

Those fears can be triggered only by people who have drawn close. They usually are not triggered by casual friends, business associates, clients, or total strangers because there is no close

R

/S that can be abandoned -- and no intimacy to cause the suffocating feeling of being engulfed.

[Chilli]

l've just been soaking in your last post for awhile now DT thanks for that and trying to find a way of putting things.

 

But first up, it is true she will mainly fly of with me as far as l know.

But she'll stand her ground with anyone , anywhere. Seen it a few times.

She says she picks her battles though because she's well aware of her tinyness .

She's only 5ft and a tiny 5ft at that.

But , with some things you've said there l think l'm getting her thing with me and l've suspected it for awhile now so l've been trying a different way with her.

You see it never seems like it's just disagreeing with her that sets her off, we can disagree or misunderstand.

l've realized she feels l might be actually attacking her, and l don't love her or respect her and and so she flies into defensive mode and over reacts.

 

But we've talked so much lately, we always do but lately l'm doing things a bit differently and l've been gentler like, - well l'm not sure babe l dunno if l'd agree or l think this or maybe that.

Just in an assuring type way that l'm not attacking her but l just don't think l agree or whatever it is- and she's just been brilliant, just brilliant. She's a different person and the further it goes the more assured she seems to be getting.

 

So l do think yeah sure she does have abandonment fears but with reassurance and knowing she's loved and l'm not going anywhere, she's a different person.

 

The jealousy thing no , l wouldn't say it's in any irrational way but if someone actually came on to me yeah bc it's happened and the little tiger moves straight in there and stamps her territory pronto.

Which l thought was pretty cute actually.

But she's even made jokes about girls strutting past at the beach and l say so you wouldn't care , she says no l trust you it's just if someone blatantly tries it on you right in front of my eyes then they'll be dealing with me,

Which again l thought was pretty cool and sounded fair enough anyway, no girl would like that.

 

She's def; not worried about suffocation she loves lots of time together and we actually just get closer and closer usually.

So again over all l'm thinking yeah sure there are bits in there for sure but it's nothing like the stories and they improve all the time with the more secure she feels the better she gets.

 

l guess it sounds like a lot of fuss but she's a very unique person and granted she is a bit tricky but a one in a million and well worth it if we can sort it out .

She even opened up more about her son, a lot actually, which was a really tricky business just a few mths ago.

But even with that l realized she's been defending the situation and had all sorts of accusations thrown at her for years but with realizing l wasn't gonna do that, she was great, she talked for hours and let it all out and l think it was really good for her too.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Chilli

[Chilli]

just an update if you happen to drop in DT.

 

Sadly , there's been a few turns in reverse for the worst. She was doing so well , and it was as if we'd come so far.

But , l don't think your ever safe from this stuff and she blew up the other day and reverted back to old days crazy. As if it had all still just been there but she'd just been on good behavior. As if everything we'd built on didn't even exist, no trust , love, nothing.

 

l also spoke to a doctor specializing in disorders only awhile back and she to advised me to get out if it.

 

And , sadly again , after this last blow up l've had to get out of it. There's just no choice.

[Downtown]

Sadly , there's been a few turns in reverse for the worst.... As if everything we'd built on didn't even exist, no trust , love, nothing.... after this last blow up l've had to get out of it.

Chilli, thanks for giving us an update. I'm so sorry to hear that her period of remarkable improvements came to an end. If she really does exhibit strong BPD traits, that repeated cycling between good periods and bad periods is exactly what you should expect. When BPDers are behaving well, their behavior is very VERY good. And when they are behaving badly, their behavior is very VERY bad.

 

The result is that, like many smokers who claim to throw away their "last pack" every two months, BPDers typically will be seen to dramatically improve periodically. Because the abused partners are so in love with them, these partners mistakenly believe that they are seeing a permanent, lasting change. What they are actually seeing, however, is simply one more upswing in the unending roller coaster ride. As you know, even a roller coaster will be seen moving upward half the time. I therefore suspect that you made a wise decision in choosing to walk away.

[Chilli]

Thanks for that DT.

l've known people persisting with some kind of nasty side in a partner,never envy them when l'm still hearing the same stories 10yrs later. Really sad l reckon.

 

lt's so weird with her, it's basically something she chooses in a way when there's an obvious good intention or meaning in a word or sentence or action , for some damn reason she somehow manages to find the worst possible alternative and twist it all about into something that sets her off.

She was doing so well, we seemed to be.

You know , with everything said and accusations , l'm not even sure what set her off this last time. One minute we were our usual happy loving selves , next all this crap started flying from 12mths ago, 5minutes ago, from things we'd just talked about that very day, l just don't even know where to begin.

Mostly things that were supposedly all good too or if it was something , we'd sorted mths ago, l thought . Just dunno.

 

The doc that l'd met , said she suspects she has also very strong narc' tendencies , great, l get an added bonus thrown into the mix.

She also pretty well confirmed that even if you could get people like this to a doctor most don't wanna take them on anyway because they're almost unfixable , not good. But gf would never see anyone anyway, she thinks it's all just fine.

 

l must admit, l do fear now that it will never end if l tried persisting.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Chilli

[Chilli]

Here's a thing.

l've spent hours last few days reading up on the different narcissistic and BPD types and symptoms and all sorts of anything to do with both.

 

Gotta admit , although l see bits and pieces in gf the only real def' thing is the way she goes off.

l wouldn't say she mirrors me really , she's very much her own person. Not sure about any abandonment thing either tbh because again she's very much her own person and quite happy just doing her thing.

She's not the sort of person to need people, even me there's never a problem if l can't be around for a few days.

She's also very empathetic about many things and people in life , situations.

She's great with money and getting anything she needs or taking on and doing whatever she needs to to achieve anything she wants.

Very organized and together in every way really.

 

Although , l don't suppose it makes much difference because we'd still have all the same problems.

She def' has some issues and bits and pieces.

[Chilli]

oops , messed up

Edited April 19, 2017 by Chilli

[Downtown]

lt's so weird with her, it's basically something she chooses in a way when there's an obvious good intention or meaning in a word or sentence or action, for some damn reason she somehow manages to find the worst possible alternative and twist it all about into something that sets her off.

Chilli, if she exhibits strong narcissistic or sociopathic traits then, yes, she likely "chooses" to misinterpret things as a way of gaslighting you. If she is a BPDer, however, she likely believes most of the outrageous claims she makes about you. BPD is called a "thought disorder" because the intense feelings distort the BPDer's perception of your intentions and motivations. The human condition is that, whenever we experience very intense feelings, our judgment becomes colored and distorted.

 

Mostly things that were supposedly all good too or if it was something , we'd sorted mths ago, l thought.

If she really is a BPDer, nothing is ever "sorted" for very long. Because BPDers are unstable, their perception of past events and current events largely is determined by whatever intense feeling they are experiencing AT THIS VERY MOMENT.

 

The doc that l'd met , said she suspects she has also very strong narc' tendencies , great, l get an added bonus thrown into the mix.

Think of it as a fire sale where you get two or three for the price of one. The large-scale 2008 study I cited earlier found that anyone exhibiting a full-blown PD such as BPD likely exhibits one or two other PDs as well. With female BPDers, 32% were found to also exhibit full-blown narcissism (with male BPDers, that figure rises to 47%). Another way of looking at it is that, if your GF has full-blown narcissism, there is a 41% chance she also exhibits full-blown BPD.

[Jersey born raised]

What is the story of her childhood? FOO issues? You mentioned all of her family are similar, how so?

[Chilli]

l'd love it to work out so much if poss' DT , but trying to distinguish these differences sometimes is pretty hard on the head isn't it.

 

Admittedly , things she often chooses to think what she thinks about , are often things that came up , or that l did, that she just couldn't get her head around and even originally just didn't quite believe the way l'd explained whatever it was. But she let it go at the time afterward.

And so in some cases she still harbored deep down , her belief of whatever it was and so it comes out down the track when she got the sh@ts.

For instance , l was still in the divorce forum l was in when l split with my ex. She says l should be over it and outa there, yrs.

l say babe, we were together 20yrs, there's my daughter, our family, 20yrs of life together, there's still things l'm working through.

She's worried l still have it for my ex.

So for example that's one of the things that just will not go away.Not unsual though when it comes to gf's and ex's l giess but there are plenty of others where really, she just won't let go pure and simple and for no real reason except her own paranoia or whatever it is.

But yeah , l def' got the fire sale deal and at the same time l def see pieces of a lot of the stuff we've talked about.

There is one thing l can say for cert ' she does has a very short fuse at times.

l'm still thinking midway somewhere in between it all tbh.

 

Don't know if that could be workable one day ,,,,, or never !

 

Hey Jersey, she was living in Jersey when we met ,small world.

She had a pretty good childhood, loving,

same parents, still together in 80s. They moved a lot bc the dad was a traveling salesman but they had a little beach holiday house they went to every year for holidays, and an uncles farm.

Her fondest memories she said.

Her mum actually sounds like her twin though actually, pretty well rules the roost at home and ef' causes plenty of havoc when the mood strikes her, or not.

She then left Italy to study in the states 22-23.

 

Sounds like it all began hitting the fan from then actually , mainly men stuff.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Chilli

[Chilli]

rThought l'd do a bit of a report. And thank you once again DT for all of your help , seriously appreciated.

 

Well ,right now , we are no more. We split a few wks back , again.

Tbh , l can hardly remember or distinguish the different times anymore but this time it did have it's merits and in many ways l felt really terrible.

Things started going downhill at Christmas time, yep good old Christmas time eh.

But on all this, l def' can not blame gf.But since l had to cancel a visit she was sooooo looking forward to and had spent money and done all sorts of things in prep for it .

Things haven't been the same all yr since and l know a lot of it was all sorts of hurts and worries for her about me and where l'm at in this and my feelings for her, and l can't blame her,l still feel guilt.

lots of outbursts and flareups , but l could see and she even talked about it , a lot of it coming from all of that.

And then l said l wanted to take a break ,l just had no choice, l had to step back and catch my breath about everything.

She has an amazing way of just overwhelming my mind to the point where l just don;t even know wtf is going on anymore. Which l've read is pretty common with BPD'ers.

So , me wanting a break , of course caused even more of her doubts , l know it was terrible timing after the Christmas thing but l just had to have it.

A few weeks later we we talking and something new flared up out of no where, l don't really wanna say what it was as tbh l'm still in a bit of shock over what she came out with buttttt, a nasty fight blew up and we ended it.

But in her defense and in all fairness, it was all still related to her hurt over us missing out at Christmas , that really did mess up so much and some other things since..

 

But anyway ,it's been a few wks now but tbh , everything's a bit of a blur at this stage because of such mix that's been going ans among all that she'd also sold up and moved over to the West Coast, so a hige few mths..

Thing is , never having been able to be together full time yet and so much happening,l just can't tell if it would blow up into those other stories later, or what.

But l wish l could tell , because then l might know whether to let all of this go now or not.

[Downtown]

Chilli, thanks for returning to give us a 3-week update. Was wondering how you two are doing.

 

Well ,right now , we are no more. We split a few wks back , again. Tbh , l can hardly remember or distinguish the different times anymore.

Like you, Chilli, I've lost count of all the breakups/makeups you two have done -- amazingly, in only a brief 15 month LD relationship. This push-away/pull-back behavior is to be expected, however, if your exGF is a BPDer. Indeed, BPDer relationships are notorious for having multiple breakups.

 

A BPDfamily survey of about 460 such relationships found that nearly a fourth of them (23%) went through 10 or more complete breakup/makeup cycles BEFORE finally ending for good. About 40% of the BPDer relationships experienced at least six breakup/makeup cycles before ending. And 73% had three or more breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. See "Results" at BPDfamily Breakup/Makeup Poll.

 

But on all this, l def' cannot blame gf.

On the contrary, you can blame her. Indeed, you should be blaming her. Granted, we all are responsible only for our actions, not our feelings. It therefore is not her fault that she felt so disappointed and sad when you had to cancel her Christmas visit at the last minute. She is at fault, however, for the hostile pernicious manner in which she chose to respond to those feelings.

 

She has an amazing way of just overwhelming my mind to the point where l just don;t even know wtf is going on anymore. Which l've read is pretty common with BPD'ers.

Yes. Because BPDers typically are convinced that the absurd allegations coming out of their mouths are absolutely true -- they generally have a greater "crazy-making" effect than can ever be achieved by narcissists or sociopaths. This is why that, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they might be losing their minds. And this is largely why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning.

 

A few weeks later we we talking and something new flared up out of no where, l don't really wanna say what it was as tbh l'm still in a bit of shock over what she came out with.

During our repeated discussions of her abusive unstable behavior -- discussions going on since February -- you have repeatedly expressed concern as to whether her moderate BPD symptoms would get much worse as you two move past the infatuated courtship period. It appears that, given your shock at what venom came out of her mouth in the past two weeks, you have your answer.

 

Significantly, this downward trend in her behavior is not new. In your April 18 post you stated, "All the improvement, all the amazing good times, the feelings- blown to pieces with the craziest mind bending sh@t l ever heard come out of her mouth. It was worse than at the beginning."

 

A nasty fight blew up and we ended it. But in her defense and in all fairness, it was all still related to her hurt over us missing out at Christmas that really did mess up so much and some other things since.

Again, you should hold her responsible not for her hurt feelings but, rather, how she chooses to act on those feelings. So "in all fairness" -- as you say -- she should be reacting maturely to a delayed vacation. She should not be acting the way a four year old behaves when Daddy takes a toy away.

 

As to vacation delay itself, I note that BPDers generally do not adapt well to changed plans. Because they are unable to manage their own emotions, they have great difficulty keeping themselves calm while planning our an alternative event. That is, they don't know how to do self soothing by redirecting their own thoughts. And because they lack impulse control, they don't handle delayed gratification well. They want it NOW. Moreover, because they are emotionally unstable, they are attracted to a stable partner on whom they can rely for dependable outcomes.

 

Thing is , never having been able to be together full time yet and so much happening, l just can't tell if it would blow up into those other stories later, or what. But l wish l could tell.

You can tell. You just don't want to believe it. You've been well aware of her childish, dark side for many months. But understanding something at the intellectual, logical level is the easy part. What is difficult -- and what takes much more time -- is convincing the intuitive, feeling part of your mind. When that is achieved, you will have turned your new-found knowledge into wisdom -- i.e., you will have a gut-level feeling that it is true.

[Chilli]

Thank you DT , just mulling it all over right now as even things you've pointed out of just this last few mths alone, l'd actually forgotten 1/2 of already. But man , that is a ridiculous amount of crap isn't it.

Think l better join that Que of the partners that end up heading for that couch .

[Chilli]

One of the biggest reasons l wonder and often blame myself is that l've been the dumper in this mostly, right through.

l was also hesitant since about day one, l stalled a lot too, canceled another visit ,again last minute.

l just neeed to take things slower than her, l'd just been through a divorce and l was still getting back on my feet.

So when l saw signs of things in her l'd immediately start back peddling.

 

But most of the outbursts were related to all this type of thing, and really , who could blame her.

She use to say , l had a beautiful chick willing to come across the world for me , yet l was giving her this sh2t, which was true.

But only because of some of her sh2T.

l've just never known though what l would have gotten if l wasn't so hold back and like that with her.

Maybe if l was full steam ahead and confident about her and us she would have known and felt secure and not been so hurt all the time.

[Downtown]

But most of the outbursts were related to all this type of thing, and really, who could blame her?

Who can blame her? Really, Chilli? Speak with the guy who wrote this:

 

• "She also has this very short fuse and turns into a loose canon in seconds, anywhere anytime in front of anybody, and usually from things she's totally misunderstood anyway."
  
• "She wrote me this crazy one page email... l showed that to a professor mate of mine that's a pretty bright bloke and he said holy hell run man run."
  
• "She's never lived with [her] son and he hates her."
  
• "[Her son] was only 2 or 3 when she moved [thousands of miles away from him] to study."
  
• "About as black and white as you could get... sees and hears nothing else once she thinks something."
  
• "l also spoke to a doctor specializing in disorders only awhile back and she to advised me to get out if it."
  
• "The doc... said she suspects she has also very strong narc' tendencies."
  

Like I noted earlier, Chilly, it is normal for the emotional "child" part of your mind to take many months to catch up with the new understanding quickly achieved by the intellectual "adult" part of your mind. Until that gap closes, your "child" will continue to hinder you with nagging doubts, terrible guilt, and a strong feeling of obligation. It will keep telling you that the new theory and perceptions floating around in the adult part of your mind are not a sufficient basis on which to wholly abandon a loved one -- particularly one who exhibits the warmth and exuberance of a young child.

[Chilli]

Good points DT.

l guess we all wonder if we shoulda coulda in these things.

We love the good side and the good things ,which were many , in my case anyway ,that's the weird part. Some closure would all make much more sense if only it was more just one side or the other but which l know part of the BDP script is the two extremes.

So on the bad sides , l guess l'm also script there too in being the partner that's thinking if only this or she might've that.

 

l've hoped she can mend things with her son one day. lt would help her so much and l know deep down she'd love that. l've thought if only she explained the real story to him, which l only just found out the full extent of myself not long ago.

l'm not sure if that's all it is between them or if maybe it's also about her personality he knows more of than most too, but l hope that isn't part of it as well or their relationship would sadly never mend because she doesn't see that side of herself.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Chilli

[Chilli]

Do people with this type of thing normally just totally not even acknowledge things they say and do?

Even some how just turn it around and actually say you said it or did it , they just say it and seem as if they just totally believe it too as if that didn't even happen , even if the proof is right there every time that they did ?

 

gf did that all the time and still does as we still talk a bit.

lt's just unbelievable . l don;t know if she's just flat out lying point blank or if she has some memory loss or if she just says these things and then simply pretends it just didn't happen and expects you to just believe that, or if she's delusional, or wth.

 

l even started writing things down and making little notes at one stage just to see if l actually had my facts straight thinking l must be getting delusional but it still worked out that every time, it "was" her that said it or started it.

[Downtown]

Do people with this type of thing normally just totally not even acknowledge things they say and do? Even some how just turn it around and actually say you said it or did it , they just say it and seem as if they just totally believe it too as if that didn't even happen , even if the proof is right there every time that they did?

Yes, Chilli, that happens so frequently with BPDers that the abused partners have given it a name. It is called "rewriting history." It occurs in all human beings because, as I noted earlier, our perceptions of other peoples' intentions and motivations become distorted whenever we experience intense feelings. It occurs far more frequently and intensely in BPDers -- resulting in serious thought distortions -- because (due to their inability to regulate emotions) they experience very intense feelings far more often than the rest of us. This is why BPD is often said to be "a thought distortion."

 

The result is that a BPDer experiences such intense feelings that she is absolutely convinced that the feeling MUST be true. And, because she is too emotionally immature to intellectually challenge her intense feelings (like mature adults do), she never gives that feeling the laugh test to decide whether it merits believing. It thus is common for a BPDer to deny she had agreed to something you both had agreed to only three days earlier. And, if you produce a recorded video proving that she had agreed, she will be convinced that she only said she agreed because you had forced her into it, giving her no other option.

 

l don't know if she's just flat out lying point blank or if she has some memory loss.

Generally, BPDers hate to lie because they are filled with so much shame and self loathing that the last thing they want is one more incident to feel guilty about. Moreover, they usually have little need to lie because their subconscious works 24/7 to protect their fragile egos by projecting all bad thoughts and feelings onto you. Hence, when a BPDer makes outrageous and false claims, she usually believes that nonsense because the projections occur subconsciously.

 

A substantial share of BPDers, however, also exhibit strong traits of narcissism or sociopathy. About 40% of BPDers exhibit strong narcissism, for example. For that subgroup of BPDers, lying is very common. The frequent lying, then, is a characteristic of narcissism and sociopathy, not of BPD itself.

[Chilli]

Thanks very much for that DT .

l know we've touched on and around this stuff before and also through the info but tbh, l was hoping more so for the clearer picture that you've explained in the detail here that you have, so very appreciated.

Because man, it's pretty confusing stuff to the relatively newcomer.

 

We've been apart awhile now but still in touch a little and admittedly, it's been hard and l have held some hope and of course very strong feelings. Maybe with time you know, some realizations.

But, it''s as if her thinking's more out of whack now than it was before.

Things l've hoped she might realize or even admit to with some time, well, not only did they never even happen now, well not from her anyway and she would never dream of such a thing,

but now l did them , apparently !

Not just small things either , make or break stuff.

Hate to admit it but , it really does feel unbeatable and very maddening .

Edited June 5, 2017 by Chilli

[Downtown]

l don't know if she has some memory loss or if she just says these things and then simply pretends it just didn't happen.

Chilli, BPDers generally have a normal ability to remember things and events. But their emotions are so strong that they color and distort those memories. My exW, for example, has a normal memory. That did not stop her, however, from rewriting history in her mind nearly every week. She had a false self image of being "The Victim." That feeling of being "the Victim" was so strong that she was absolutely convinced that any unhappiness or misfortune was MY fault, i.e., it was something I had done to her.

 

Although this happened hundreds of times, I will give you two examples. The first is the $4,000 piano I bought her. I purchased it because she kept telling me how much she loved to play the piano because it was such a comfort to her -- and it helped to calm her down. So, of course, I purchased one and had it delivered as a surprise gift. She was absolutely thrilled -- for two weeks. In the subsequent three years, she played that piano a total of only 5 hours. Yes, that's right -- 5 hours in 3 years. So when I decided to sell it 3 years later, she told me she never really wanted a piano. She claimed it was solely my decision and I had made a mistake in buying it for her.

 

The second example is the $11,000 she spent on 3 sewing machines and fabric. She had this mistaken notion that she somehow was "a seamstress" but, in 15 years, she managed to make only one dress, one vest, and a cat collar. And because she had made all of those purchases on her own -- without consulting with me -- you might think she would have only herself to blame for throwing away $11,000.

 

Yet, when I asked her why she would not use the machines she had purchased, she explained that none of them would work properly because they lacked important functions. Of course, I then asked why she had chosen to buy 3 sewing machines, all of which were unsuitable for her sewing needs. She explained that she had purchased inadequate machines because, each time, she greatly feared my response if she had spent more to acquire a more expensive machine offering all the necessary sewing features. In her mind, then, she had ended up with 3 useless machines because I had prevented her from buying what she needed -- never mind that she had never even asked me.

 

To a BPDer, her perception of reality is whatever intense feeling she is experiencing AT THIS VERY MOMENT. Hence, even if she is blessed with an excellent memory -- or is presented with irrefutable evidence like the 3 perfectly good sewing machines setting in front of my exW -- she trusts that intense feeling. Whenever her feeling is intense, she accepts it as "reality" and will not trust her own memory or her intellectual understanding of the situation.

[Chilli]

Oh brother , she was expensive then too .

Mine was too , not that it would make her happy.

l could actually see that happening with gf, probably in different ways and reasons but the end result would somehow still just never be a win , regardless. Because so many times she used money things when she went off, so it was as if even you could up the cash flow enough , provide everything she wanted, then she'd have absolutely nothing to go off about at least in one area.

Glad l didn't physically try that one though then by the sounds of it because l couldn't afford those kinda hits.

Money matters were always a really big thing with her. But she kept forgetting that her pilot ex h , was also supporting an ex wife and ended up actually owing gf money by the time he took off anyway. So as l said to her a few times, so much for the good salary she often complained about with mine as compared.

Doesn't sound like it would've helped much anyway.

 

But one huge thing you've mentioned there that really hit home in a split second, was the victim thing.

Because that's exactly the card she threw straight at me just the other day. And when l couldn't have been any more nicer or flattering to her and us at the time, things were beautiful and had been a wk or so, hopeful. Which was often the way actually for some crazy reason , probably that push pull thing l guess,

She then though just came out with some garbage that she couldn't risk ending up the wounded bird and that abuse was unacceptable to any women.

l was just like , huhhhhh !!!!!!

l'm the one damn near ending up in the nut house here.

And if l was to print up right here , some of the things she's said to me - among all the love and admiration that is too , over our 15mths, LS would probably implode right then and there.

 

How do l even begin to deal with and answer comments like that or try to find some logic in it, and coming from both the persons that she can be, but she was the victim. !

l know , l can;t .

Edited June 6, 2017 by Chilli

[Chilli]

l can't for the life of me figure out how she sees herself as some little lamb, or wounded bird yet proudly tells me that if anyone crosses her she rips them to threads and they know it so people are very wary of her.

She is literally scary when she goes off or even with calm but crazy sentences she'll just throw out there right in the middle of telling you how much she loves you .

 

l've had her twisted one liners stuck in my head for 6mths sometimes ,a few from 12mths,you literally do actually feel abused .

Yet she turns around saying she can't be a wounded bird or abused herself .

Well obviously, no body wants that for her but how on earth does she somehow take what she does to you and somehow then turn that around and onto herself as if she was the one on the receiving end,

 

l really wish we could have parted on good terms instead of feeling like l wanna check myself into psyche ward and having memories of the bad instead of all the good.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Chilli

[Downtown]

How on earth does she somehow take what she does to you and somehow then turn that around and onto herself as if she was the one on the receiving end?

Chilli, as I noted earlier, a BPDer doesn't do this twisting of reality at a conscious level. If she did, she would be aware of the twisting occurring and thus would be deliberately lying. This is a serious problem for BPDers because they already are filled with shame and don't want the painful guilt that arises from lying. Hence, if you are seeing deliberate misrepresentation of the truth, you are seeing NPD or sociopathic traits, not BPD traits (some folks exhibit both).

 

Instead, a BPDer accomplishes the twisting and distorted view -- without lying -- because her subconscious gets rid of the painful thoughts and feelings by externalizing them, i.e., by moving them OUTSIDE of her body. This is done by subconsciously projecting them onto YOU. At a conscious level, the BPDer truly does believe that these painful feelings are originating with you. In that way, my exW truly believed that I was the one responsible for her having an expensive piano she would not play and having $15,000 worth of sewing machines and fabric bolts she would not use.

[Chilli]

God yeah and that's exactly how it seems to DT.

l always hoped walking away or time apart would snap her into realizing how damaging an silly the crap was , but it never did.

The exact opposite in fact, as if she really believed things she'd say, or like they got turned around into not even happening or in fact that l did them or said them, not her, like she didn't even know wth hell l was talking about or what happened and she was the victim of some crazy unfair thing.

 

So what you've said explains that then but man , such a shame, waste.

[Chilli]

l really regret the bad title l did on this thread too btw and wish l could change it.

l know it just cheapened everything and made it all just sound like some dating crapola but no , it was much much more.

So , l don't like coming back to it because then the title will be showing up in the index again and that's pretty sad.

 

But , we haven't been together for awhile now , things look pretty done.

But l was cleaning out stuff and got reading some of our older emails, things long forgotten.

But it amazed me at how caught up she'd get on some silly thing that really meant absolutely nothing.

l often might've even just said it, whatever it was, to actually put her at ease over whatever the sitch was.

But it was incredible seeing these old emails and seeing how stuck she gotten on the craziest light hearted things that really just meant nothing,

But she'd dissect every letter ,word , get herself all into some emotional turmoil over whatever it might be that you just sprouted out off the top of your head with only good intentions , yet she would get stuck on it for wks , even bring it up 12mths later.

 

l dunno , it was pretty surreal actually l'd long forgotten 3/4 of the totally innocent or weird sh@t that'd get me into all this troubles and battles and go on for wks.

Things l really just couldn't imagine anyone taking the wrong way and brushing iff with a chuckle , let alone going into some 2 wk or 2mth drama over.

 

l know we talked all around this type of thing, but brushing through some of it , man, it's like every word, every letter,had to be exact no matter how trivial that matter.

Unfortunately then it all started coming back, the eggshells and being ridiculously of every word even in fun. Which there was also lots and lots off ,but that could all turn with one word.

 

l always thought it was her italian tbh , they are well know for being hot headed and things.

She spoke perfect English , and works and speaks it all day long, an accent but perfect , but it did often seem that yeah even so , a lot of the old embedded ways of talking and saying things and taking things and expressions and interpretations , were maybe the culprit .

 

But , maybe not , maybe there was much more to it.

Although , it made me also realize we'd come a long way too. She'd still get all caught up on the weirdest taken all wrong things , but holy hell, not like the early days .

 

Anther thing that really struck me was reading her saying all this had never happened for her before with anyone else.

But l dunno , her ex sounded like a very quiet sorta guy , so whether he just didn't speak out, or things he did say were very chosen and few, or that he was European too , but we were and Ozzy and an American Italian trying to understand each other, or whether because the ex was so quiet , he never spoke back until he end, then he went right off the planet at her yet it was like she had no idea why.

 

So ,l dunno if this stuff was a history with her but she just wasn't aware of it until the ex blew up at the end , or if in fact it did never happen with anyone else.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Chilli