Was I silly to turn this down?

[ZA Dater]

Long story short there is someone I know reasonably well through mutual friends, she has modelled in NYC and seems like a nice genuine person. Anyway was with friend and her today and as is this friends penchant he blurts out "Well why don't you take J out", she answers she will take me out to meet people.

 

 

I wasn't too excited about the idea because while she is well meaning I felt I would just be a project and its not a nice feeling to have. The other problem I have is I am not really fun and she wanted to go clubbing. My stance on this is well known.

 

 

On the other hand my friend points out "If you walk in with her, many heads will turn" which is undoubtedly true.

 

 

At the end of the day I decided to give it a skip, I know I would just feel extremely self conscious and uncomfortable.

 

 

I am guessing this was possibly a mistake? I did chat to her and explain about me and dating. Perhaps she hit the nail on the head "you need to go out chill and have fun". Truthfully I don't know how to do that because my mind is always working on something.

 

 

The offer is always there so the door isn't totally closed but the idea of meeting all her beautiful glamorous friends is extremely daunting because I would be a fish out of water.

 

 

Not sure of this forum is the correct one, mods please move as you see fit.

[Imajerk17]

I really think you should say yes.

 

1. It's meeting up w someone not a lifetime commitment.

 

2. Friends help friends meet someone all the time.

 

3. She could give you pointers, pointers that this board can't give you. OR she may like you herself!

 

4. You were the one who framed it as "a sad-sack getting help". Maybe this woman doesn't see it that way, she probably did not until you told her that was what it was.

 

5. Related to 4. above, I am impressed w her already. You griped about your datelessness and she's still there and even nicely called you out on your stuff. She actually sounds quite right about you when she said you need to chill out. What's wrong w making new friends if nothing else?

 

It actually sounds to me that The Universe is trying to give you a gift, ZA. And I am about as far from "woo-woo" as you can get.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Imajerk17

[preraph]

Not sure how she plans on introducing you to friends. That is best done at a party or something, which I guess you don't like. I think it's good you let her off the hook. Her friend shouldn't have volunteered her like that.

[ZA Dater]

Not sure how she plans on introducing you to friends. That is best done at a party or something, which I guess you don't like. I think it's good you let her off the hook. Her friend shouldn't have volunteered her like that.

 

That was my thinking. Was probably going to be at a club and I know from past experience I fit in very badly. There was some superficial appeal in the idea but I think she herself saw it would not work.

 

I just don't enjoy feeling like a project.

[CptInsano]

I just don't enjoy feeling like a project.

 

I think that is the key point. The woman might actually enjoy going out and spending time with you. You are assuming that they wouldn't. In my "awkward phase" I had several women who tried to get me to go out more, and we both enjoyed it, and I learned at lot from this experience. But the difference is that I appreciated them and their effort.

[ZA Dater]

I think that is the key point. The woman might actually enjoy going out and spending time with you. You are assuming that they wouldn't. In my "awkward phase" I had several women who tried to get me to go out more, and we both enjoyed it, and I learned at lot from this experience. But the difference is that I appreciated them and their effort.

 

Look I am quite happy to go to markets, dinners, shows and those sorts of things. What I don't enjoy are clubs and bars, lounge bars.

 

When I am at those places I feel awkward and like a miss fit.

[ZA Dater]

I think that is the key point. The woman might actually enjoy going out and spending time with you. You are assuming that they wouldn't. In my "awkward phase" I had several women who tried to get me to go out more, and we both enjoyed it, and I learned at lot from this experience. But the difference is that I appreciated them and their effort.

 

"I'll take you out and introduce you to people" it's hard not to feel like a project. By my own admission I am not fun so.

[Lilyana76]

You will always miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

[ZA Dater]

You will always miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

 

True but inevitably I would have just felt even more sorry for myself because I don't fit in.

[CptInsano]

Look I am quite happy to go to markets, dinners, shows and those sorts of things. What I don't enjoy are clubs and bars, lounge bars.

 

When I am at those places I feel awkward and like a miss fit.

 

I'm not much of a fan of bars and clubs, either. But if you're there because a beautiful woman wants to dance with you, then so be it. The key is not that you're comfortable, but that you get to have new experiences.

 

"I'll take you out and introduce you to people" it's hard not to feel like a project. By my own admission I am not fun so.

 

By my own admission I am not good looking. Yet there are women out there who swear that I do look great, and even more so who don't care how I look because they enjoy my company for whatever reason. Why would I try to question them?

 

Why would you in turn question somebody who has offered to spend time with you? They must see something in you if they are willing to introduce you to their friends or acquaintances.

[Lilyana76]

Honestly, a few hours of mild discomfort and feeling like you don't fit in, to hang out with a beautiful woman who wants to introduce you to other beautiful woman. Is that not worth it?

 

Sometimes in life you have to put yourself out there, get out of your comfort zone, to find what you are looking for. We all have to do it at some point.

[ZA Dater]

Honestly, a few hours of mild discomfort and feeling like you don't fit in, to hang out with a beautiful woman who wants to introduce you to other beautiful woman. Is that not worth it?

 

Sometimes in life you have to put yourself out there, get out of your comfort zone, to find what you are looking for. We all have to do it at some point.

 

Cant really argue with you. I am just lacking any sort of confidence at the moment.

 

 

Perhaps I simply don't want to date as much I thought I did. In all honesty I think I have found other aspects of life which are more important to me.

[ZA Dater]

I'm not much of a fan of bars and clubs, either. But if you're there because a beautiful woman wants to dance with you, then so be it. The key is not that you're comfortable, but that you get to have new experiences.

 

 

 

By my own admission I am not good looking. Yet there are women out there who swear that I do look great, and even more so who don't care how I look because they enjoy my company for whatever reason. Why would I try to question them?

 

Why would you in turn question somebody who has offered to spend time with you? They must see something in you if they are willing to introduce you to their friends or acquaintances.

 

 

Wasn't quite as simple as that. Friend who was there turned to her "Why don't you take J out tonight" when she mentioned she didn't have plans In that position you aren't exactly going to say no. Friend left and I spoke to her about it and then it was "well I don't think I am going out tonight". Hence my project feeling.

[Lilyana76]

If thats true, great! Finding yourself, and whats important to you is a great step in self acceptableness and worth! It will help with your confidence.

[elaine567]

I would guess 80% of those out to bars and clubs are not there because they love it, they are there to meet other people.

They often drink to excess because they need some dutch courage to be there and to be able to chat to and "pick up" people they do not know.

 

Do not think you are the only one who feels they don't fit in.

Most just make a very good show of it.

Once they meet Mr/Miss Right they tend to avoid such places.

Not everyone out in bars and clubs is a born party goer.

 

If she is willing to introduce her to her friends then that is a good thing. Meeting people through friends and acquaintances is the tried and tested way of meeting like minded people. You may not meet Miss Right on this one occasion, but you may meet another single chap in similar circumstances that you could team up with.

It is all about widening your horizons and opening up possibilities.

[ZA Dater]

I would guess 80% of those out to bars and clubs are not there because they love it, they are there to meet other people.

They often drink to excess because they need some dutch courage to be there and to be able to chat to and "pick up" people they do not know.

 

Do not think you are the only one who feels they don't fit in.

Most just make a very good show of it.

Once they meet Mr/Miss Right they tend to avoid such places.

Not everyone out in bars and clubs is a born party goer.

 

If she is willing to introduce her to her friends then that is a good thing. Meeting people through friends and acquaintances is the tried and tested way of meeting like minded people. You may not meet Miss Right on this one occasion, but you may meet another single chap in similar circumstances that you could team up with.

It is all about widening your horizons and opening up possibilities.

 

I guess there is a high degree of truth to this. My issue is I cant really see those possibilities, in this circle of friends all will be models, all can choose whichever guy they want and I never say this I'd just feel inferior to be honest.

 

 

A while ago I helped someone out in a similar position, she had the most horrendous bf who belittled her continuously, managed to help her build her confidence up and today she has a great job, has left him and found happiness.

 

 

In short my issues are self inflicted.

[ZA Dater]

If thats true, great! Finding yourself, and whats important to you is a great step in self acceptableness and worth! It will help with your confidence.

 

I just like achieving, be it a well written article, a project which goes well, an event I worked hard at and it was a success. I enjoy all of those things more than chasing people and hoping they will like me. It seems rather senseless to expect anyone beautiful to really like me when nobody ever has before. For so long I chased that dream but its probably not attainable and unfortunately I have landed up in the position of being around people who have massive success with whoever and my nose gets rubbed in that more and more, even though they don't intend to do it.

 

 

"here look at her, isn't she stunning, look at this one", its hard to describe how that makes me feel but perhaps the best way would be to say, just sad.

 

 

The most valuable thing is to believe one is a good person and I am that, that I know but the eye opener is what people actually LIKE and what I THINK they like, there is a major disconnect between the two.

[elaine567]

I guess there is a high degree of truth to this. My issue is I cant really see those possibilities, in this circle of friends all will be models, all can choose whichever guy they want and I never say this I'd just feel inferior to be honest.

 

 

OK but how many of those girls actually have bfs? Does your friend have a bf?

[Shining One]

On the other hand my friend points out "If you walk in with her, many heads will turn" which is undoubtedly true.

OP, I'm not a fan of clubs either. They are a means to an end. I'll share an experience with a good friend of mine who volunteered to be my wing-woman.

 

One night, she had plans with her boyfriend, but she still had time to help me. I was at the club for about 30 minutes before she arrived. I was basically ignored by all of the women there. She arrived, had one drink with me, and we danced for two songs. At that point, her boyfriend texted her that he was outside and she left. My dance card was full for the rest of the night and I didn't go home alone.

 

Take the chance. What do you have to lose?

[normal person]

I wasn't too excited about the idea because while she is well meaning I felt I would just be a project and its not a nice feeling to have. The other problem I have is I am not really fun and she wanted to go clubbing. My stance on this is well known.

 

You start dozens of threads on here about how endlessly hard it is to meet, connect with, and date women. Someone offers to help you do that on the fast track and you decline because you don't want to feel like a "project." One of the things I find myself saying in "advice" threads more often than anything is "step out of your comfort zone," "it won't be easy or comfortable, but it will be what you need to do." You're a beggar, if you also want to be a chooser, you're going to lose a lot of sympathy from people.

 

At the end of the day I decided to give it a skip, I know I would just feel extremely self conscious and uncomfortable.

 

So despite all the threads about how difficult of a time you have meeting women and how miserable it is for you, at the end of the day, you're really just saying you'd rather avoid being temporarily self conscious or uncomfortable (which are blockades that only exist within your own head, by the way -- they are overcome rather easily if you rationalize them) than meet women. Like I said, I'm finding it very hard to sympathize with you.

 

I am guessing this was possibly a mistake? I did chat to her and explain about me and dating. Perhaps she hit the nail on the head "you need to go out chill and have fun". Truthfully I don't know how to do that because my mind is always working on something.

 

Learn. A golden opportunity wasted because you "didn't know how to chill out." What a convincing reason not to go.

 

I too have a brain that always works. I apply it to productive things. I learn. I adapt. Plenty of women find it fascinating and attractive. You can't use this excuse again on me. You have an asset, not a liability. If your brain is always working, put it to work in new situations and use it to your advantage rather than complain about what a burden it is.

 

The offer is always there so the door isn't totally closed but the idea of meeting all her beautiful glamorous friends is extremely daunting because I would be a fish out of water.

 

If you feel the prospect of being a fish out of water is of greater detriment to you than your lack of women, I'd say you made the right choice. If it's not, you made a very wrong choice. You had an opportunity to learn, adjust, confront/conquer fears, and adapt handed to you on a silver platter. You turned it down because, God forbid, you didn't want to feel momentarily uncomfortable.

 

If you want progress and change, you need to step out of your comfort zone and do difficult, uncomfortable things and learn from them. You want women in your life to enrich it, but at the same time, you don't want to do anything you don't want to do for them, and ultimately that attitude will be what prevents you from succeeding. Love, dating, and relationships are Darwinian. If you expect the environment to adapt to you rather than the other way around, you'll be humbled as you have been up to this point.

 

Stephen Hawking said intelligence is the ability to adapt to change. You won't entertain even momentary change because it would be uncomfortable for you. You're unwilling to deal with the pain or discomfort because you're insecure. Insecurity is fear. Fear is the opposite of confidence, which women love. Your inability to face and deal with fear has prevented you from even entering an arena of women. In this feedback loop, you have basically just removed yourself from contention by labeling yourself insecure and therefore undesirable.

 

What can you do now? Next time, stop being a slave to your discomforts, realize nothing will change unless you do, rationalize how trivial your supposed fears are, summon the courage to try something different, learn from the experience, and apply what you learned elsewhere. That's all you can do. "Adapt or die."

 

Someone will surely reference this thread the next time you post something about how difficult it is to meet women. Sure, it might be difficult for some people sometimes. The difference between those who end up succeeding and those who don't is the willingness to do something about a situation rather than be paralyzed with fear by it.

[elaine567]

No-one asked you to go white water rafting, where your fear may end up with you being dead having done the wrong thing.

 

It was only a trip to a bar/club.

You turned it down as you are scared of making a fool of yourself.

99% of people have made fools of themselves at some point and in some way or another, in a bar/club, but do they really care?

Awkwardness, pain and rejection are par for the course...

 

No-one is going to say, "Look at Za dater, doesn't he look out of place", as soon as you walk in, everyone is far more interested in what they themselves are doing to worry about some guy surrounded by a bevy of beautiful women..

Oh dear poor guy...

[ZA Dater]

OK but how many of those girls actually have bfs? Does your friend have a bf?

 

She doesn't want a bf. The bottom line is choice and the ability to choose.

[ZA Dater]

No-one asked you to go white water rafting, where your fear may end up with you being dead having done the wrong thing.

 

It was only a trip to a bar/club.

You turned it down as you are scared of making a fool of yourself.

99% of people have made fools of themselves at some point and in some way or another, in a bar/club, but do they really care?

Awkwardness, pain and rejection are par for the course...

 

No-one is going to say, "Look at Za dater, doesn't he look out of place", as soon as you walk in, everyone is far more interested in what they themselves are doing to worry about some guy surrounded by a bevy of beautiful women..

Oh dear poor guy...

 

 

Its not what they think its about how I feel and the way I end up interacting which isn't very elegant and I just end up sitting there with nothing to say because I cant relate to anyone. My problem yes.

 

 

For those who say "oh put yourself out there" sure fine enough but surely that should be doing something you enjoy versus something you don't enjoy.

[ZA Dater]

You start dozens of threads on here about how endlessly hard it is to meet, connect with, and date women. Someone offers to help you do that on the fast track and you decline because you don't want to feel like a "project." One of the things I find myself saying in "advice" threads more often than anything is "step out of your comfort zone," "it won't be easy or comfortable, but it will be what you need to do." You're a beggar, if you also want to be a chooser, you're going to lose a lot of sympathy from people.

 

 

 

So despite all the threads about how difficult of a time you have meeting women and how miserable it is for you, at the end of the day, you're really just saying you'd rather avoid being temporarily self conscious or uncomfortable (which are blockades that only exist within your own head, by the way -- they are overcome rather easily if you rationalize them) than meet women. Like I said, I'm finding it very hard to sympathize with you.

 

 

 

Learn. A golden opportunity wasted because you "didn't know how to chill out." What a convincing reason not to go.

 

I too have a brain that always works. I apply it to productive things. I learn. I adapt. Plenty of women find it fascinating and attractive. You can't use this excuse again on me. You have an asset, not a liability. If your brain is always working, put it to work in new situations and use it to your advantage rather than complain about what a burden it is.

 

 

 

If you feel the prospect of being a fish out of water is of greater detriment to you than your lack of women, I'd say you made the right choice. If it's not, you made a very wrong choice. You had an opportunity to learn, adjust, confront/conquer fears, and adapt handed to you on a silver platter. You turned it down because, God forbid, you didn't want to feel momentarily uncomfortable.

 

If you want progress and change, you need to step out of your comfort zone and do difficult, uncomfortable things and learn from them. You want women in your life to enrich it, but at the same time, you don't want to do anything you don't want to do for them, and ultimately that attitude will be what prevents you from succeeding. Love, dating, and relationships are Darwinian. If you expect the environment to adapt to you rather than the other way around, you'll be humbled as you have been up to this point.

 

Stephen Hawking said intelligence is the ability to adapt to change. You won't entertain even momentary change because it would be uncomfortable for you. You're unwilling to deal with the pain or discomfort because you're insecure. Insecurity is fear. Fear is the opposite of confidence, which women love. Your inability to face and deal with fear has prevented you from even entering an arena of women. In this feedback loop, you have basically just removed yourself from contention by labeling yourself insecure and therefore undesirable.

 

What can you do now? Next time, stop being a slave to your discomforts, realize nothing will change unless you do, rationalize how trivial your supposed fears are, summon the courage to try something different, learn from the experience, and apply what you learned elsewhere. That's all you can do. "Adapt or die."

 

Someone will surely reference this thread the next time you post something about how difficult it is to meet women. Sure, it might be difficult for some people sometimes. The difference between those who end up succeeding and those who don't is the willingness to do something about a situation rather than be paralyzed with fear by it.

 

You can think what you want but its me having to sit through these things and I have in fact done it before, only to find one person friendly and the rest ignored me for the same multitude of reasons I don't fit in at clubs. You tell me how fun or nice it being ignore all evening. Trying to make small talk and having nothing to say. You tell me how that feels. Then tell me how keen you would be to go through that again?

 

 

I agree, productive thing for me is work, not sitting in a bar/club listening to "he is cute" "she hooked up with ABC", for me that's not productive at all, amusing if you are part of the group, completely isolating if you are not part of the group and don't know the people in question. Productive for me is setting out with a specific objective in mind and measuring successes on the way to achieving that objective but before I set off I decide on that the odds of success are.

 

 

Sympathy isn't something that bothers me, its a tough world out there and sympathy is in short supply at the best of times. I don't need your sympathy.

 

 

You are 100% right, I'd rather not bother than feel like a fish out of water, been there done that got the t shirt and nothing positive ever came of it. Just like the last time someone tried to help me (again extremely pretty), the tactic was exactly the same, go out and meet her friends and that time I did and you know what it was horrible in every way imaginable, I had nothing in common with them, there was no common conversation and it was a terrible evening from start to finish, in fact I wasn't with a friend I would have left within 30 minutes. Being looked down at as a pity project doesn't impress me, its downright humiliating and if that's what you mean by "getting out of your comfort zone" then no thanks.

 

 

I have spent long enough being this show pony, long enough hearing "he is so desperate he cant find a girl" "shame he never had any luck", "shame nobody ever likes him" " why don't you go for her she is gorgeous (when in fact she isn't and I know the person telling me this wouldn't give her the time of day".

 

 

Enough of all that, all this scenario was, was another pathetic attempt to feel sorry for me and try conjure up something fake which would never work, added to the fact I hardly know this girl at all, probably spent less than 20 minutes talking to her in the 5 odd years I have known her.

[Imajerk17]

OK OP, a Masters-Level thesis from you on why you were right to turn down this one invitation for this one night out, so you can instead stay home, stuck and unhappy in your little cocoon. Fine then. It's clear you feel you already have the answers, so why did you even bother asking us.

 

I think it's a shame you didn't go out. You probably weren't going to meet the love of your life anyway, but you might have actually had fun and made some new friends. And yes, sometimes the change of pace really does makes you more productive the next day.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Imajerk17