Was I silly to turn this down?

[ZA Dater]

OK OP, a Masters-Level thesis from you on why you were right to turn down this one invitation for this one night out, so you can instead stay home, stuck and unhappy in your little cocoon. Fine then. It's clear you feel you already have the answers, so why did you even bother asking us.

 

I think it's a shame you didn't go out. You probably weren't going to meet the love of your life anyway, but you might have actually had fun and made some new friends. And yes, sometimes the change of pace really does makes you more productive the next day.

 

Friends what are those lol. Fun, fun for me is achieving things. Happy is wide open scenic spaces and the key to something nice in my hand. Happy is helping others when they need it. Happy is making a positive difference. Happy is a great sunset and a good wave to surf.

 

I don't have answers but the question remains why people go to places they don't like in the hope they might meet someone they do like. Why do people pull people down instead of build them up.

 

No, it wouldn't take a lot, if she had said let's go to dinner I wouldn't have thought twice.

 

Against the hope I have always had I concede I am probably better off chasing more rewarding endeavours. I just don't get it.

[normal person]

You can think what you want but its me having to sit through these things

 

Yeah, and it's you that will suffer the consequences of your inaction and/or inability to adapt to the circumstances.

 

and I have in fact done it before, only to find one person friendly and the rest ignored me for the same multitude of reasons I don't fit in at clubs.

 

Translation: "I tried it once and it was hard, so rather than learn from it and try to conquer it, I'll just use it as an excuse to never try again." This is not a physical limitation keeping you from doing these things. Your fear is entirely imagined. It only exists within your mind.

 

You tell me how fun or nice it being ignore all evening.

 

What a horror!!! You're an adult man, but you're sounding like a child. You have agency. If you're feeling ignored, utilize your own agency and do something about it. Have the courage to engage someone else rather than being entirely dependent on them to do so for you. You can sit and sulk and claim that clubs or horrible because no one asks you how your day's going... or you could just ask someone else how their day is going. Problem solved.

 

Trying to make small talk and having nothing to say. You tell me how that feels.

 

I can't imagine meeting a total stranger, who's lived a whole life completely different to mine with a whole set of experiences that I've never heard about, and not having any sort of natural curiosity about them. Not only would I have things to say, I would have too much to say, or rather ask. If you can't summon the modicum of courage it takes to ask someone -- who is basically a whole book you haven't read -- an engaging question, then I have no sympathy for you. What's the worst thing that's going to happen if you try and find out what makes them tick? Most people like talking about themselves. They'll enjoy the process of someone else taking an interest in them, and they'll like that person as a result.

 

Then tell me how keen you would be to go through that again?

 

This is a non-starter because I wouldn't be in that position to begin with. I would rationalize my situation and conquer my fears rather than be paralyzed by them. I would say: "No one's speaking to me right now? Great, I'll speak to them and make them regret not speaking to me sooner." Even if that wasn't the case, I wouldn't act like being momentarily not paid attention to was some sort of heinous insult that would ruin my whole concept of socializing.

 

I agree, productive thing for me is work, not sitting in a bar/club listening to "he is cute" "she hooked up with ABC", for me that's not productive at all,

 

If you want a relationship or simply to interact with women better, dealing with and understanding these sorts of nuances are crucial. Why do they think he's cute? Why did she hook up with ABC? How does that affect their image of her? How do they treat her differently as a result? How can you take these things apply them to your own actions? If you're so smart, deploy your intelligence to decode these very crucial details and use them to your advantage. You have an incredible chance to observe and learn and you're writing it off because you think it's nonsense. Objectively, it might be -- but it's the kind of nonsense that might be so practical that it can bring you what you want. On an intellectual level, I often hate listening to women talk to each other about banal stuff. But I absorb what I hear, I extract the macro themes and elements of it, learn, and use it.

 

 

amusing if you are part of the group, completely isolating if you are not part of the group and don't know the people in question.

 

So be part of the group. Rather than wait for someone to let you in, make them want you in. Step out of your comfort zone, realize that you're a grown man who doesn't have to wait for people to speak to him. Everyone else has the agency to speak to other people, why don't you think you do? Those people didn't know each other from birth, I'm guessing. At some point, they met and got to know each other. What's your excuse as to why you can't do the exact same thing that they've already done?

 

 

Productive for me is setting out with a specific objective in mind and measuring successes on the way to achieving that objective but before I set off I decide on that the odds of success are.

 

And how's that worked out for you so far? You lost my sympathy at "for me." The market doesn't care about you and your goals or definitions thereof. It's under no obligation to you and your definitions. Quite the opposite. You either bend to it, or it will break you, as it has thus far. You can call yourself productive, but here you are with the same problems and concerns. I'll consider you productive when you do what you need to do to get what you want, regardless of how uncomfortable it is for you.

 

Sympathy isn't something that bothers me, its a tough world out there and sympathy is in short supply at the best of times. I don't need your sympathy.

 

What'd you start this thread for? Real advice or a bunch of soft, sugar coated sympathetic replies like "Yeah, bars can be too loud. It's good that you stayed away and let it prevent you from getting the thing you desperately want more than anything in the world?" Maybe you don't want sympathy, but what you do want is reassurance that you shouldn't have to do anything you don't want to do in order to get what you want. You're only hurting yourself.

 

You are 100% right, I'd rather not bother than feel like a fish out of water, been there done that got the t shirt and nothing positive ever came of it.

 

Apparently so, and I'll guess that you didn't try and learn anything from it, extract any value, observe any theme or concept you could take with you for next time, you didn't take any chances to see how acting a bit differently might benefit you, you didn't try and find any common ground with anyone, you assumed that because no one immediately wanted to talk to you warmly and ingratiate you into the group that doing so was utterly impossible on your own because you're too scared to try and do it yourself, and you immediately wrote it off as a completely waste of time because you felt somewhat uncomfortable.

 

Just like the last time someone tried to help me (again extremely pretty), the tactic was exactly the same, go out and meet her friends and that time I did and you know what it was horrible in every way imaginable, I had nothing in common with them, there was no common conversation and it was a terrible evening from start to finish, in fact I wasn't with a friend I would have left within 30 minutes. Being looked down at as a pity project doesn't impress me, its downright humiliating and if that's what you mean by "getting out of your comfort zone" then no thanks.

 

At what point will you refuse to stop being a victim of circumstance?

 

I have spent long enough being this show pony, long enough hearing "he is so desperate he cant find a girl" "shame he never had any luck", "shame nobody ever likes him" " why don't you go for her she is gorgeous (when in fact she isn't and I know the person telling me this wouldn't give her the time of day".

 

Clearly you haven't spent long enough hearing it because you're not willing to do enough to rectify it.

 

Enough of all that, all this scenario was, was another pathetic attempt to feel sorry for me and try conjure up something fake which would never work, added to the fact I hardly know this girl at all, probably spent less than 20 minutes talking to her in the 5 odd years I have known her.

 

What a horrible scenario: you have a problem and people who want to help you, however it isn't absolutely, completely, 100% ideal for you and therefore not worth your precious time.

 

You have excuses for everything. I hope one day you wake up and realize it's you you're hurting with these excuses, it's your life you're wasting by writing things off so quickly and by being paralyzed by fear.

 

Most things worth doing aren't easy. Anyone reading this thread who's ever achieved something they supposedly couldn't have is just laughing right now.

 

You are not willing to do what it takes to get what you want. Plain and simple.

[mightycpa]

True but inevitably I would have just felt even more sorry for myself ;_; because I don't fit in.

Well, I think that says it all.

[ZA Dater]

Yeah, and it's you that will suffer the consequences of your inaction and/or inability to adapt to the circumstances.

 

 

 

Translation: "I tried it once and it was hard, so rather than learn from it and try to conquer it, I'll just use it as an excuse to never try again." This is not a physical limitation keeping you from doing these things. Your fear is entirely imagined. It only exists within your mind.

 

 

 

What a horror!!! You're an adult man, but you're sounding like a child. You have agency. If you're feeling ignored, utilize your own agency and do something about it. Have the courage to engage someone else rather than being entirely dependent on them to do so for you. You can sit and sulk and claim that clubs or horrible because no one asks you how your day's going... or you could just ask someone else how their day is going. Problem solved.

 

 

 

I can't imagine meeting a total stranger, who's lived a whole life completely different to mine with a whole set of experiences that I've never heard about, and not having any sort of natural curiosity about them. Not only would I have things to say, I would have too much to say, or rather ask. If you can't summon the modicum of courage it takes to ask someone -- who is basically a whole book you haven't read -- an engaging question, then I have no sympathy for you. What's the worst thing that's going to happen if you try and find out what makes them tick? Most people like talking about themselves. They'll enjoy the process of someone else taking an interest in them, and they'll like that person as a result.

 

 

 

This is a non-starter because I wouldn't be in that position to begin with. I would rationalize my situation and conquer my fears rather than be paralyzed by them. I would say: "No one's speaking to me right now? Great, I'll speak to them and make them regret not speaking to me sooner." Even if that wasn't the case, I wouldn't act like being momentarily not paid attention to was some sort of heinous insult that would ruin my whole concept of socializing.

 

 

 

If you want a relationship or simply to interact with women better, dealing with and understanding these sorts of nuances are crucial. Why do they think he's cute? Why did she hook up with ABC? How does that affect their image of her? How do they treat her differently as a result? How can you take these things apply them to your own actions? If you're so smart, deploy your intelligence to decode these very crucial details and use them to your advantage. You have an incredible chance to observe and learn and you're writing it off because you think it's nonsense. Objectively, it might be -- but it's the kind of nonsense that might be so practical that it can bring you what you want. On an intellectual level, I often hate listening to women talk to each other about banal stuff. But I absorb what I hear, I extract the macro themes and elements of it, learn, and use it.

 

 

 

 

So be part of the group. Rather than wait for someone to let you in, make them want you in. Step out of your comfort zone, realize that you're a grown man who doesn't have to wait for people to speak to him. Everyone else has the agency to speak to other people, why don't you think you do? Those people didn't know each other from birth, I'm guessing. At some point, they met and got to know each other. What's your excuse as to why you can't do the exact same thing that they've already done?

 

 

 

 

And how's that worked out for you so far? You lost my sympathy at "for me." The market doesn't care about you and your goals or definitions thereof. It's under no obligation to you and your definitions. Quite the opposite. You either bend to it, or it will break you, as it has thus far. You can call yourself productive, but here you are with the same problems and concerns. I'll consider you productive when you do what you need to do to get what you want, regardless of how uncomfortable it is for you.

 

 

 

What'd you start this thread for? Real advice or a bunch of soft, sugar coated sympathetic replies like "Yeah, bars can be too loud. It's good that you stayed away and let it prevent you from getting the thing you desperately want more than anything in the world?" Maybe you don't want sympathy, but what you do want is reassurance that you shouldn't have to do anything you don't want to do in order to get what you want. You're only hurting yourself.

 

 

 

Apparently so, and I'll guess that you didn't try and learn anything from it, extract any value, observe any theme or concept you could take with you for next time, you didn't take any chances to see how acting a bit differently might benefit you, you didn't try and find any common ground with anyone, you assumed that because no one immediately wanted to talk to you warmly and ingratiate you into the group that doing so was utterly impossible on your own because you're too scared to try and do it yourself, and you immediately wrote it off as a completely waste of time because you felt somewhat uncomfortable.

 

 

 

At what point will you refuse to stop being a victim of circumstance?

 

 

 

Clearly you haven't spent long enough hearing it because you're not willing to do enough to rectify it.

 

 

 

What a horrible scenario: you have a problem and people who want to help you, however it isn't absolutely, completely, 100% ideal for you and therefore not worth your precious time.

 

You have excuses for everything. I hope one day you wake up and realize it's you you're hurting with these excuses, it's your life you're wasting by writing things off so quickly and by being paralyzed by fear.

 

Most things worth doing aren't easy. Anyone reading this thread who's ever achieved something they supposedly couldn't have is just laughing right now.

 

You are not willing to do what it takes to get what you want. Plain and simple.

 

I read this a few times before deciding if I should reply.

 

 

Suffer the consequences, that a new one, haven't heard that one before. Strangely enough I think I live the consequences of being different everyday. You know what I, I am not sorry I am different, not sorry I don't go to places I don't like to try and meet people, try be someone I am not in the hope I may meet someone. That to me seems like a rather sad existence.

 

 

It never been about being too hard, its rather a case I simply don't enjoy being passed around like some sort of project much to everyone amusement.

 

 

I am through making people want to like me, its extremely boring and the result is always the same, all I am going to be is me, I can look that person in the mirror and feel reasonably happy.

 

 

You say I should be curious about people, well I am just not, most are variations of the same thing, from time to time I will find someone brave enough to stand out from the norm and do things that most don't do, doesn't sit at bars and clubs hoping to meet someone. I don't care who sleeps with who, who is dating who and so on and so forth. Tell me what value any of that has to me.

 

 

So I must act differently, why and how am I supposed to act? If people aren't friendly and look down their noses at me, no I have no interest in interacting with them. Glad you subject yourself this sort of treatment.

 

 

I am a victim of circumstance, circumstance created by myself over a years believing I had some desirable traits. I was wrong. I believed it was ok to be my own person and not follow the crowd, what a monumental mistake this was.

 

 

You are right I am not prepared to sacrifice my identity to "maybe" get what I want. If people cannot accept me as I am then so be it, I am not going to grovel and beg for people to like me.

 

 

To answer one more question, yes I don't believe in doing things I don't want to do unless there is a clear upside or I can see if I persist at them I will ultimately succeed at them. Nothing about dating has given me any indication that either is remotely possible.

[normal person]

Suffer the consequences, that a new one, haven't heard that one before. Strangely enough I think I live the consequences of being different everyday.

 

I'm saying you'll live with the consequences (ex: not getting what you want) of your inaction, I didn't say the consequences of being different. Everyone is different. Most people figure out they aren't perfect as is, things aren't going to fall directly into their lap, that they need to take some chances and learn from their mistakes to get what they want.

 

You know what I, I am not sorry I am different, not sorry I don't go to places I don't like to try and meet people,

 

Nowhere did I say being different was a bad thing (or even address "being different"), so don't put words in my mouth like I'm attacking you or that you need to make some defiant apology to me. All I did was tell you what you need to do -- you just don't want to do it. You don't have to apologize to me. Maybe to yourself, if you want. I'm not saying you need to apologize for it. But you are unhappy with your circumstances, so if you want to change them, you know what you need to do now.

 

try be someone I am not in the hope I may meet someone. That to me seems like a rather sad existence

 

If you'd rather be the most pure, uncorrupted, non-conformist version of yourself, that's totally fine and within your right. The problem is that you do that and still come on here and complain about women all the time. You want it both ways. You don't want to change anything about yourself or accept the fact that you might have to make some compromises to get some women, but you also want the women. If I were you, I'd either realize I'm not optimized to get the things I want and work and learn until I was, or if I was going to be happier not compromising, I'd make no changes but also stop complaining about how hard it is.

 

If you don't want to change or do work, that's fine -- but when you do that, you're essentially forfeiting your right to complain about women.

 

It never been about being too hard, its rather a case I simply don't enjoy being passed around like some sort of project much to everyone amusement.

 

Understandable that it's not entirely enjoyable in the moment -- but your refusal to do it basically is a declaration that you'd rather not experience some momentary discomfort for the thing you ultimately want. You'd rather feel secure and be guaranteed to not get the women you desire than to be uncomfortable for a little while and have a chance to get them, which is fine if that's the way you want it. If you're happier this way, why keep complaining about it?

 

I am through making people want to like me, its extremely boring and the result is always the same, all I am going to be is me, I can look that person in the mirror and feel reasonably happy.

 

Ok, it's too boring for you and you don't want to learn from your experiences. That's fine, but again, if you make that choice, you can't complain anymore.

 

 

all I am going to be is me, I can look that person in the mirror and feel reasonably happy.

 

If you're happy, why do you keep making threads like this?

 

You say I should be curious about people, well I am just not, most are variations of the same thing, from time to time I will find someone brave enough to stand out from the norm and do things that most don't do,

 

Ok, you're right, every person is the same and you have absolutely no need to talk to anyone, make friends, form connections, hear their stories, learn about their life, and enjoy their company. Fair point.

 

I don't care who sleeps with who, who is dating who and so on and so forth. Tell me what value any of that has to me.

 

If you wanted to be a mechanic as badly as you wanted to be with a women, would you not revel in a discussion between mechanics about the nuances and intricacies of their job? What tools they use for what job? The best way to fix a carburetor? If you listen to women and pick up the subtleties of them, why they think ABC is attractive, why they don't think XYZ is attractive, then you can reverse engineer the discussion and implement the good qualities of ABC into yourself and try your best to rid yourself of those of XYZ, and then use that all to your advantage in being with a woman. But you don't care, and you know everything already, so what's the point, right?

 

So I must act differently, why and how am I supposed to act? If people aren't friendly and look down their noses at me, no I have no interest in interacting with them.

 

If people look down their noses at you, change their minds if you want to be ingratiated into the group that badly. You're smart, surely you can reverse engineer an experience where you were indifferent about someone and then came around to liking them. Use what you learned there and apply the same concept on these people.

 

 

Glad you subject yourself this sort of treatment.

 

I'm not a bitter, reluctant, person filled with excuses. I'm someone who realizes that no one will hand me anything and that if I want something, I need to work for it even if it isn't entirely convenient or comfortable. I was once shy, passive, and emasculated. It lead me nowhere near the things I wanted. I summoned the courage to throw myself into the fire. I, as many people do, dealt with the things that you just don't want to. It changed me, I learned, I applied it elsewhere, saw success, and I'm much happier for it. Doing difficult things and succeeding is a great joy in life. Yes, I'm very glad I subjected myself to that. I wish the same experience on everyone.

 

I am a victim of circumstance, circumstance created by myself over a years believing I had some desirable traits. I was wrong. I believed it was ok to be my own person and not follow the crowd, what a monumental mistake this was.

 

No one's saying change yourself entirely -- but there are lot of difficult things you need to do in life that may be necessary for you to get what you're after. No one's perfect. Thinking you're desirable "as is" is just silly. Most people need to compromise things about themselves. That's why they go to the gym to get in shape. That's why they where nice clothes even if they're uncomfortable. That's why they work long hours to make more money. That's why they study to get into the good school. You're smart enough to know this.

 

You are right I am not prepared to sacrifice my identity to "maybe" get what I want. If people cannot accept me as I am then so be it, I am not going to grovel and beg for people to like me.

 

Ok, so instead you're just going to continue coming on here making bi-monthly threads complaining about how no one appreciates you as you are? Also, where did I suggest you beg?

 

 

To answer one more question, yes I don't believe in doing things I don't want to do unless there is a clear upside or I can see if I persist at them I will ultimately succeed at them. Nothing about dating has given me any indication that either is remotely possible.

 

Yeah, if you aren't good at something, it's best not to try again or entertain any alternative methods.

 

Best of luck.

[NTV]

Wow... lol. What do you think you would get as advice? 'No, you should not go on this date with a model.'???

 

Lol. My vote is to not just go but to one up the whole 'project' thing you've been worried over by telling this model that you are looking for a 'sex teacher'.

 

In fact, I recommend making this a prime directive for at least one evening.

 

I don't like clubs too much either. Too loud and I stink at dancing. Would rather zumba for 4 hours for all I get out of it. Doesn't mean that I wouldn't try for the right person.

[WomenWubber]

At the end of the day I decided to give it a skip, I know I would just feel extremely self conscious and uncomfortable.

 

Maybe you should look into that. Ever taken a social anxiety test?

 

(I'm not up to date with your threads, sorry if that has been asked already.)

[angel.eyes]

Deep down you're terrified of getting close to people.

 

It's much easier to come online and rant about how women are unreasonable, and it's only women the size of blue whales (your words) with a passel of children in tow who contact you on OLD. You claim you have no friends and no social circle to help you date, yet your threads often start with how some friend tried to set you up, or some model tried to help you, including the one who worked with you on your dress and look. Every thread of yours then devolves into you fighting with posters over how all their advice doesn't apply in your particular situation, how hopeless it all is, and why you shouldn't bother to lift a finger to change anything about you.

 

Quite frankly, the only person getting in the way of what you want is you.

[GemmaUK]

Change your behaviour and your attitude will change.

 

To be honest your last post came over as quite entitled sounding - bit like a toddler who complains when his toy is taken away. The kid doesn't want to take any responsibility for the reason why his toy was taken away

 

If you don't want to change your behaviour then you will never get rid of the attitude

[ZA Dater]

Wow... lol. What do you think you would get as advice? 'No, you should not go on this date with a model.'???

 

Lol. My vote is to not just go but to one up the whole 'project' thing you've been worried over by telling this model that you are looking for a 'sex teacher'.

 

In fact, I recommend making this a prime directive for at least one evening.

 

I don't like clubs too much either. Too loud and I stink at dancing. Would rather zumba for 4 hours for all I get out of it. Doesn't mean that I wouldn't try for the right person.

 

Whilst the above post made me smile I think there is a lot of value in it.

 

I am not saying I would never ever go to clubs. Sure, if I met someone I really liked ad she liked to go out to the odd club or bar I would certainly do that. What I wont do is go to clubs/bars in the hope I might meet someone.

 

I don't have the "game" for that. In fact in all probability 9/10 of the issues I have are because I battle to meet people in the right sort of environment where I can actually appear impressive enough for people to want to get to know me. Its basic marketing I guess.

 

There are situations and places where I do come off really well according to people who are with me at the time, some of the same friends/associates I keep mentioning her. Equally there are places where my personality doesn't work at all.

 

Its how you think about it I think and how much value I place on my myself in a particular situation. Sitting at a coffee bar at my favourite lifestyle centre/classic car dealer. There I have value and I can integrate myself. Thing is you don't find single women there.

 

Sitting at a bar full of people with load music and dancing, there I have little to no value.

 

The above post illustrates the point I am trying to get across, making me go to places I don't like isn't going to make me likeable because I cant pretend to like something I don't and like the above I'd rather go to some quiet place and watch the sun set of sit on my own at some street café pizza place.

 

I don't think anyone is entitled to anything and see my whale comment is well remembered...regrettably.

As someone said the only person to blame here is me but I guess that's because I don't integrate like everyone else does and I overthink each and everything I do. For months I have tried not to do this but it still happens. On the advice of some I try to smile and keep conversations light but the underlying still seems to be there.

 

People tell me "have fun" and I don't really know what that is, I know what I enjoy but I don't really understand what everyone else seems to enjoy or perhaps I do and its easier to just turn my back and walk away because there is no common ground to be found.

 

Its just hugely frustrating to constantly feel behind the curve, constantly trying to catch up and then waking up one day and realising the race is for the most part lost, this happens when you look around and everyone else you know is married has kids and then you realise at near age 33 you haven't even been kissed. That is hard believe me it is. What do I do, I try and paper over this enormous hole by working, planning events, writing, reading, keeping fit and driving to nowhere in particular. All of which is find but that hole never really goes away AND every time I find myself being treated like a project that hole opens again and the wound is as sore as ever.

 

Its equally sore when you look around and start looking, you start OLD and you realise that nobody really fulfils the idea you have or what other people around you have, yes I am going to get called out for entitlement but for me there is what I like, what I can get and these two never seem to align ever. Friends, they pick and choose like I pick and choose vegetable. Me, for some reason I should just be satisfied with whoever shows interest. Again I just walk away from that.

 

Sure, I'd go out with the model and then what? Find I compare unfavourably to the other guys, that's a near certainty my inexperience and awkwardness would see to that. Its an absolutely draining endeavour trying to look like you enjoy something when you don't.

 

I wont lie this model is nice as is the other one but I think the realistic part of me knows what is and isn't possible, nothing I have seen in dating suggests the superlative is possible for me. Many people seem to be able to overcome that by apparently 'doing difficult things' but equally how many do them and find no greater success at all?

[ZA Dater]

I'm saying you'll live with the consequences (ex: not getting what you want) of your inaction, I didn't say the consequences of being different. Everyone is different. Most people figure out they aren't perfect as is, things aren't going to fall directly into their lap, that they need to take some chances and learn from their mistakes to get what they want.

 

 

 

Nowhere did I say being different was a bad thing (or even address "being different"), so don't put words in my mouth like I'm attacking you or that you need to make some defiant apology to me. All I did was tell you what you need to do -- you just don't want to do it. You don't have to apologize to me. Maybe to yourself, if you want. I'm not saying you need to apologize for it. But you are unhappy with your circumstances, so if you want to change them, you know what you need to do now.

 

 

 

If you'd rather be the most pure, uncorrupted, non-conformist version of yourself, that's totally fine and within your right. The problem is that you do that and still come on here and complain about women all the time. You want it both ways. You don't want to change anything about yourself or accept the fact that you might have to make some compromises to get some women, but you also want the women. If I were you, I'd either realize I'm not optimized to get the things I want and work and learn until I was, or if I was going to be happier not compromising, I'd make no changes but also stop complaining about how hard it is.

 

If you don't want to change or do work, that's fine -- but when you do that, you're essentially forfeiting your right to complain about women.

 

 

 

Understandable that it's not entirely enjoyable in the moment -- but your refusal to do it basically is a declaration that you'd rather not experience some momentary discomfort for the thing you ultimately want. You'd rather feel secure and be guaranteed to not get the women you desire than to be uncomfortable for a little while and have a chance to get them, which is fine if that's the way you want it. If you're happier this way, why keep complaining about it?

 

 

 

Ok, it's too boring for you and you don't want to learn from your experiences. That's fine, but again, if you make that choice, you can't complain anymore.

 

 

 

 

If you're happy, why do you keep making threads like this?

 

 

 

Ok, you're right, every person is the same and you have absolutely no need to talk to anyone, make friends, form connections, hear their stories, learn about their life, and enjoy their company. Fair point.

 

 

 

If you wanted to be a mechanic as badly as you wanted to be with a women, would you not revel in a discussion between mechanics about the nuances and intricacies of their job? What tools they use for what job? The best way to fix a carburetor? If you listen to women and pick up the subtleties of them, why they think ABC is attractive, why they don't think XYZ is attractive, then you can reverse engineer the discussion and implement the good qualities of ABC into yourself and try your best to rid yourself of those of XYZ, and then use that all to your advantage in being with a woman. But you don't care, and you know everything already, so what's the point, right?

 

 

 

If people look down their noses at you, change their minds if you want to be ingratiated into the group that badly. You're smart, surely you can reverse engineer an experience where you were indifferent about someone and then came around to liking them. Use what you learned there and apply the same concept on these people.

 

 

 

 

I'm not a bitter, reluctant, person filled with excuses. I'm someone who realizes that no one will hand me anything and that if I want something, I need to work for it even if it isn't entirely convenient or comfortable. I was once shy, passive, and emasculated. It lead me nowhere near the things I wanted. I summoned the courage to throw myself into the fire. I, as many people do, dealt with the things that you just don't want to. It changed me, I learned, I applied it elsewhere, saw success, and I'm much happier for it. Doing difficult things and succeeding is a great joy in life. Yes, I'm very glad I subjected myself to that. I wish the same experience on everyone.

 

 

 

No one's saying change yourself entirely -- but there are lot of difficult things you need to do in life that may be necessary for you to get what you're after. No one's perfect. Thinking you're desirable "as is" is just silly. Most people need to compromise things about themselves. That's why they go to the gym to get in shape. That's why they where nice clothes even if they're uncomfortable. That's why they work long hours to make more money. That's why they study to get into the good school. You're smart enough to know this.

 

 

 

Ok, so instead you're just going to continue coming on here making bi-monthly threads complaining about how no one appreciates you as you are? Also, where did I suggest you beg?

 

 

 

 

Yeah, if you aren't good at something, it's best not to try again or entertain any alternative methods.

 

Best of luck.

 

If you aren't good at something you try improve, if you cannot see any change after improvement then you question whether something really is possible or not and if it isn't you decided to either keep going with the same result or simply find another way to achieve the same/similar result.

 

Lets not kid ourselves here not EVERYONE lives the fairy tale you like to project I am would then assume you accuse them of not trying hard enough either or giving up? Its nice you can date whoever you like, I am happy for you but did it ever occur to you, that you aren't representative of the broader population and their dating struggles?

 

I think many people are desirable as is, they are born with a gift of attraction a warm personality, great looks etc. How much work do those people do? Not much really. You can put on nice clothes, you can work out but it doesn't change who you are, I do both and the results don't differ to when I wore clothes I liked, now I wear clothes other people apparently like in the hope they will deem me more attractive. I do exercise I don't like in the hope it builds me up to this muscle bound person other people seem to like. Do you think that's perfectly acceptable. Excuse me when I refuse to go to places other people want me to in the hope other people will like me or I must pretend to like the place so other people think I am fun and having fun. Where I come from that's called living a completely false life and I am guilty of it to.

 

Things changed you? Did you want to change or did you feel like other people wanted you to change? What things were these?

 

Why should I change peoples minds, why not just move on from those people completely? Or do I pay lip service and digest every bit of ridiculous about who is attractive and who isn't. You seem to forget I have done this and the conclusion is overwhelmingly superficial. Its exactly this which gets the self same people the bf's they supposedly want but then complaint to me about, "oh he doesn't do this for me "oh he forgot my birthday, oh he didn't get my anything for valentines.

 

If I am so bad as you portray then why is it these people open up to me and seek attention, for 3 years I was someone's office bf, why because her bf never gave her any attention and I did. Who did she love and sleep with, him not me but who was it on a Monday morning she called when he car wouldn't start, yes me not him.

 

I wont and don't believe sitting a bar has any upside at all, I went to many of them when I was doing research for my novel, went to many clubs too and I found them all ostensibly the same and yes I sat at the bar and drank water. Did I really care about the looks around me, not really but I did feel lonely.

 

Being there for people I am very good at, unfortunately that isn't what people want it seems, they seek whatever it is I have no idea so what I have essentially become is a sort of friend zone harmless guy, of course you will tell me this isn't ok and you might have a point.

 

Would there have been upsides going out with this model, perhaps but I can tell you this she would have looked pretty stupid bringing me along and its for that primary reason I didn't go because in my world other people are more important than myself. By some twisted logic I seemed it think it was good to take interest in others that perhaps they would take interest in me.

 

One of the few things I don't regret is taking an interest in people even when I know nothing more will ever happen because in the lonely world I live in the modicum of attention I get is better than no attention at all.

 

Everyone can live the idyllic life you mention, the difference is some experience it and some like me dream of it realising it wont ever happen.

[NTV]

You talking like you have this perfect plan to find the perfect person in the perfect situation and have everything just be magically delicious.... but you also admit that this hasn't worked out too well for you so far. It might be time to give somebody else's plan a try and see if their plan has better success rates.

 

Also this I don't know how to have fun thing is kind of weird. You know darn well you know how to have fun. Maybe you're just depressed and this is depression talking or maybe you are taking some sort of medication that blocks all the good feelings that you would normally have as a real person or maybe you just have taking life so seriously that you forgot what your childhood was like the fun parts of it anyway. The secrets to having fun man don't involve other people it's all about you and if you didn't have fun by yourself then guess what. That's right it's time to find a sex teacher.

[ZA Dater]

You talking like you have this perfect plan to find the perfect person in the perfect situation and have everything just be magically delicious.... but you also admit that this hasn't worked out too well for you so far. It might be time to give somebody else's plan a try and see if their plan has better success rates.

 

Also this I don't know how to have fun thing is kind of weird. You know darn well you know how to have fun. Maybe you're just depressed and this is depression talking or maybe you are taking some sort of medication that blocks all the good feelings that you would normally have as a real person or maybe you just have taking life so seriously that you forgot what your childhood was like the fun parts of it anyway. The secrets to having fun man don't involve other people it's all about you and if you didn't have fun by yourself then guess what. That's right it's time to find a sex teacher.

 

Not likely to happen the only ones I can find are those who charge by the hour and that doesn't interest me.

 

Fun for me is different things, a great day at a beach, good waves, a great cycle, a nice sunset, driving something fast. Achieving things is fun. I have a serious demeanour and I always have. Laughing smiling aren't things I do often but I do try do them more.

 

Normal Person is right about one thing, if you want exceptional you need to be what exceptional likes which unfortunately I am not.

[normal person]

I am not saying I would never ever go to clubs. Sure, if I met someone I really liked ad she liked to go out to the odd club or bar I would certainly do that. What I wont do is go to clubs/bars in the hope I might meet someone.

 

That's too bad, considering it's the most plausible way of meeting someone if you can just grin and bear it for a few hours.

 

I don't have the "game" for that. In fact in all probability 9/10 of the issues I have are because I battle to meet people in the right sort of environment where I can actually appear impressive enough for people to want to get to know me. Its basic marketing I guess.

 

Basic marketing would involve being visible to people who want to buy, ex: the people who are usually at bars. Just because the environment is one you feel most comfortable in doesn't mean it's the most conducive to getting what you want. Maybe you feel most comfortable on a tranquil farm in the middle of nowhere without distractions. You might be in the right state of mind, but that doesn't do you any good if there are no women for 100 miles in any direction.

 

There are situations and places where I do come off really well according to people who are with me at the time, some of the same friends/associates I keep mentioning her. Equally there are places where my personality doesn't work at all.

 

What you have to do is make your "personality work" where the women are, not just where you're comfortable. Apparently they aren't the same place.

 

The above post illustrates the point I am trying to get across, making me go to places I don't like isn't going to make me likeable because I cant pretend to like something I don't and like the above I'd rather go to some quiet place and watch the sun set of sit on my own at some street café pizza place.

 

You want to do everything on your own terms. The market doesn't care about your terms, it operates on its own. It will continue without you. What you'd rather do is fine if it makes you happy, but the point is you can't both do that and expect to get what you want as a result. If you want women, you need to go where the women are and do the things to get them. Not the things you want to do.

 

People tell me "have fun" and I don't really know what that is, I know what I enjoy but I don't really understand what everyone else seems to enjoy or perhaps I do and its easier to just turn my back and walk away because there is no common ground to be found.

 

Socializing should be fun. Talking to other people and learning about their lives should be fun. Dig until you find a commonality in your lives and discuss that. If you're incapable or unwilling to do that, you can't form connections with people and can't date.

 

Sure, I'd go out with the model and then what? Find I compare unfavourably to the other guys, that's a near certainty my inexperience and awkwardness would see to that. Its an absolutely draining endeavour trying to look like you enjoy something when you don't.

 

So if you already knew the answer and weren't prepared to make any changes, why make the thread?

 

I wont lie this model is nice as is the other one but I think the realistic part of me knows what is and isn't possible, nothing I have seen in dating suggests the superlative is possible for me.

 

Try harder. You've got an attractive woman at your disposal who I'm sure is a wealth of knowledge. Why don't you ask her for real, unfiltered, pragmatic advice and execute on it rather than give excuses as to why it's a bad idea?

 

Many people seem to be able to overcome that by apparently 'doing difficult things' but equally how many do them and find no greater success at all?

 

Which is better: trying and not succeeding immediately, or living with the regret of never trying hard enough to make a difference?

 

If you aren't good at something you try improve, if you cannot see any change after improvement then you question whether something really is possible or not and if it isn't you decided to either keep going with the same result or simply find another way to achieve the same/similar result.

 

You're correct that some things are impossible. Most people will never be pro athletes, they just don't have the physical capabilities no matter how hard they try. However, dating is much more a mental game. Most people are able to find love. All you have to do is, like everyone else, clear some mental hurdles -- which you insist are insurmountable. The percentage of people who are able to just bite the bullet and accept vulnerability to figure out what they need to do is very high. Billions of people have done it. You're smart enough to figure out the process, you have a forum of people holding your hand, and a model at your disposal. You're just too scared to do things you don't like.

 

Lets not kid ourselves here not EVERYONE lives the fairy tale you like to project I am would then assume you accuse them of not trying hard enough either or giving up? Its nice you can date whoever you like, I am happy for you but did it ever occur to you, that you aren't representative of the broader population and their dating struggles?

 

But the biggest reason I'm not representative of everyone else is because I work harder than basically everyone else. I adapt better than everyone else. I work myself like a dog to change things I don't like rather than just complain about them. The reason I'm not representative of everyone else is because most people aren't willing to do those things, case in point: you. It's not my fault everyone else is hesitant to grind it out. Most things I tout in this forum are things I've learned firsthand, often by sticking my neck out and learning from whatever happened.

 

 

I think many people are desirable as is, they are born with a gift of attraction a warm personality, great looks etc. How much work do those people do? Not much really.

 

Does it matter what other people have to do or don't do? You have to play the hand you're dealt.

 

Excuse me when I refuse to go to places other people want me to in the hope other people will like me or I must pretend to like the place so other people think I am fun and having fun.

 

It's well within your right to not want to do those things. Just realize your unwillingness to do so is a giant hindrance to getting you those women, and in accepting that you forfeit your right to complain about it.

 

Things changed you? Did you want to change or did you feel like other people wanted you to change? What things were these?

 

I changed in order to live the life I wanted. It was no one's decision but mine. I wanted to live my best life and optimize all my experiences; to be the best person I could be because I'm only going to live once. I started a business, I made sacrifices for it, I did uncomfortable things in order to learn, I put my nose to the grindstone, I didn't waste time on frivolous things, I deconstruct things and apply their value elsewhere, etc. I streamlined my existence. It worked, I couldn't be happier with the way it's all turned out.

 

Why should I change peoples minds, why not just move on from those people completely?

 

It might be advantageous if you learn things from them. If you don't think so, don't do it. You surely know better than I do.

 

If I am so bad as you portray then why is it these people open up to me and seek attention, for 3 years I was someone's office bf, why because her bf never gave her any attention and I did

 

I didn't say you were bad. I just said you're unwilling.

 

I wont and don't believe sitting a bar has any upside at all

 

Ok, fine. Again, you'd know better than I would.

 

Would there have been upsides going out with this model, perhaps but I can tell you this she would have looked pretty stupid bringing me along and its for that primary reason I didn't go because in my world other people are more important than myself.

 

Yeah, the only reason you didn't go is because you were afraid she, that gorgeous model who I'm sure is the apple of every man's eye, would look stupid conversing with you (for some reason) and you're such a selfless white knight that you'd rather fall on the sword than have another human being feel the horrible curse of stupidity for being seen socializing with someone else. Here's the thing: she won't look stupid. I think it's safe for her to socialize with you at a bar. Crisis averted.

 

Everyone can live the idyllic life you mention, the difference is some experience it and some like me dream of it realising it wont ever happen.

 

No, the difference is some do what they need to do in order to get it, and others don't.

 

I think you've got enough information out of me. Best of luck.

[angel.eyes]

People who are exceptional worked hard to become exceptional. It never ever crosses their mind to sit down in the middle of the road, pout, and whine that life is too hard and unfair and give up. For them, any hurdle is simply there to show what they are capable of and to prove that they are worthy of what they seek.

 

Get out of your comfort zone and learn to be comfortable around women...or sit comfy and perpetually single at the coffee bar at your favorite classic car dealer where you feel you "add value." I'm guessing that means that you hit anyone who will listen with trivia and minutiae about cars, reveling in the fact that you know something that they don't.

 

For the most part, what we get out of life is a direct reflection of our effort and focus. Are your choices moving you closer to what you claim to want?

[NTV]

Why do you sound like you're giving up?

 

If this weren't dating but it was a soccer game would you want your team giving up before the game started? Most matches don't get played at home in perfect conditions. It's away games in the rain and fog and snow and bad refs that separates the good teams from the mediocre.

 

You're admitting to mediocre before even your first game of the year and each game is different.

 

You came here under the guise of seeking advice bit that's not why you're here is it? This is about giving up isn't it?

[normal person]

People who are exceptional worked hard to become exceptional. It never ever crosses their mind to sit down in the middle of the road, pout, and whine that life is too hard and unfair and give up. For them, any hurdle is simply there to show what they are capable of and to prove that they are worthy of what they seek.

 

Very well said.

 

You came here under the guise of seeking advice bit that's not why you're here is it? This is about giving up isn't it?

 

What's funny to me is that he phrased the thread title like a question, as if he doesn't already know the answer and isn't simply too scared to admit it. He knows he messed up, he just wants people to tell him how it's not so bad, or for someone to give him some magic bullet that will solve all his problems for him.

 

OP, you can have your friend help you or not. If you're willing to go through that process to get what you want, do it. We will applaud you for trying and you can take pride in facing your fears even if the outcome isn't immediately the exact one you wanted.

 

If you don't want to do that, that's fine too -- but if so, stop complaining.

[Chris2016]

OP, how do you get to hang out with models?

[ZA Dater]

OP, how do you get to hang out with models?

 

The simple answer. Part of my life are actually quite glamorous at times.

[ZA Dater]

OP, you can have your friend help you or not. If you're willing to go through that process to get what you want, do it. We will applaud you for trying and you can take pride in facing your fears even if the outcome isn't immediately the exact one you wanted.

 

If you don't want to do that, that's fine too -- but if so, stop complaining.

 

What I find amazing is this "process" it seems this is restricted to certain people, I guess some are unlucky to have to need to go through it.

 

The bold part I have a problem with. I am going to invest in something I look at all the underlying factors and past history and yes sometimes you will not make anything in the short term but you unlikely to forfeit everything you invest. My problem is I look at me and I look at my history. Then I look at the people I tend to find attractive, then I look at how many people I actually find attractive.

 

If you put all of that together I am left with the objective feeling that the investment isn't worth making, sure if I saw some gains somewhere then perhaps I would say ok, lets try this and lets try that but the issue really is for me its outcomes based, getting someone's number. I get told "well done", I don't really see it like that when the overall outcome is negative.

 

I often feel when it comes to dating I am putting my hand in a jar of sweets and rummaging around for the nice one and I never seem to pull that one out of the jar or anything out of the jar at all.

 

In all honesty I am in between giving it another try (with who I don't know) and simply giving up completely with a degree of knowledge the underlying factors were my undoing.

[ZA Dater]

People who are exceptional worked hard to become exceptional. It never ever crosses their mind to sit down in the middle of the road, pout, and whine that life is too hard and unfair and give up. For them, any hurdle is simply there to show what they are capable of and to prove that they are worthy of what they seek.

 

Get out of your comfort zone and learn to be comfortable around women...or sit comfy and perpetually single at the coffee bar at your favorite classic car dealer where you feel you "add value." I'm guessing that means that you hit anyone who will listen with trivia and minutiae about cars, reveling in the fact that you know something that they don't.

 

For the most part, what we get out of life is a direct reflection of our effort and focus. Are your choices moving you closer to what you claim to want?

 

I would disagree, some people simply turn up and wow everyone. How hard they worked to achieve that is debatable.

 

The bold part made me laugh because you actually probably 95% correct except I don't revel in the fact I know more than they do. Its social interaction and its an interest of mine so I don't see any downsides to it.

 

If I had to choose I'd do most of my life over again which I cannot do so that question is a mute one. I live with many, many regrets mainly relating to choices I made. But, you cant cry over spilt milk and I just like to believe I am good person which tends to get me through most days.

[ZA Dater]

That's too bad, considering it's the most plausible way of meeting someone if you can just grin and bear it for a few hours.

 

 

 

Basic marketing would involve being visible to people who want to buy, ex: the people who are usually at bars. Just because the environment is one you feel most comfortable in doesn't mean it's the most conducive to getting what you want. Maybe you feel most comfortable on a tranquil farm in the middle of nowhere without distractions. You might be in the right state of mind, but that doesn't do you any good if there are no women for 100 miles in any direction.

 

 

 

What you have to do is make your "personality work" where the women are, not just where you're comfortable. Apparently they aren't the same place.

 

 

 

You want to do everything on your own terms. The market doesn't care about your terms, it operates on its own. It will continue without you. What you'd rather do is fine if it makes you happy, but the point is you can't both do that and expect to get what you want as a result. If you want women, you need to go where the women are and do the things to get them. Not the things you want to do.

 

 

 

Socializing should be fun. Talking to other people and learning about their lives should be fun. Dig until you find a commonality in your lives and discuss that. If you're incapable or unwilling to do that, you can't form connections with people and can't date.

 

 

 

So if you already knew the answer and weren't prepared to make any changes, why make the thread?

 

 

 

Try harder. You've got an attractive woman at your disposal who I'm sure is a wealth of knowledge. Why don't you ask her for real, unfiltered, pragmatic advice and execute on it rather than give excuses as to why it's a bad idea?

 

 

 

Which is better: trying and not succeeding immediately, or living with the regret of never trying hard enough to make a difference?

 

 

 

You're correct that some things are impossible. Most people will never be pro athletes, they just don't have the physical capabilities no matter how hard they try. However, dating is much more a mental game. Most people are able to find love. All you have to do is, like everyone else, clear some mental hurdles -- which you insist are insurmountable. The percentage of people who are able to just bite the bullet and accept vulnerability to figure out what they need to do is very high. Billions of people have done it. You're smart enough to figure out the process, you have a forum of people holding your hand, and a model at your disposal. You're just too scared to do things you don't like.

 

 

 

But the biggest reason I'm not representative of everyone else is because I work harder than basically everyone else. I adapt better than everyone else. I work myself like a dog to change things I don't like rather than just complain about them. The reason I'm not representative of everyone else is because most people aren't willing to do those things, case in point: you. It's not my fault everyone else is hesitant to grind it out. Most things I tout in this forum are things I've learned firsthand, often by sticking my neck out and learning from whatever happened.

 

 

 

 

Does it matter what other people have to do or don't do? You have to play the hand you're dealt.

 

 

 

It's well within your right to not want to do those things. Just realize your unwillingness to do so is a giant hindrance to getting you those women, and in accepting that you forfeit your right to complain about it.

 

 

 

I changed in order to live the life I wanted. It was no one's decision but mine. I wanted to live my best life and optimize all my experiences; to be the best person I could be because I'm only going to live once. I started a business, I made sacrifices for it, I did uncomfortable things in order to learn, I put my nose to the grindstone, I didn't waste time on frivolous things, I deconstruct things and apply their value elsewhere, etc. I streamlined my existence. It worked, I couldn't be happier with the way it's all turned out.

 

 

 

It might be advantageous if you learn things from them. If you don't think so, don't do it. You surely know better than I do.

 

 

 

I didn't say you were bad. I just said you're unwilling.

 

 

 

Ok, fine. Again, you'd know better than I would.

 

 

 

Yeah, the only reason you didn't go is because you were afraid she, that gorgeous model who I'm sure is the apple of every man's eye, would look stupid conversing with you (for some reason) and you're such a selfless white knight that you'd rather fall on the sword than have another human being feel the horrible curse of stupidity for being seen socializing with someone else. Here's the thing: she won't look stupid. I think it's safe for her to socialize with you at a bar. Crisis averted.

 

 

 

No, the difference is some do what they need to do in order to get it, and others don't.

 

I think you've got enough information out of me. Best of luck.

 

There is doing what you need and doing what you hate because you think it will get you what you need.

 

Because I wont go sit in a bar, I am unwilling? Perhaps a poll is needed here to determine where people actually find success because I find it doubtful everyone picks up girlfriends at bars and clubs.

 

You wanted your best life so just did what everyone else does, that's fine it worked for you but tell me this before you wanted this supposed best life what sort of success did you have, some success, no success. If I was a betting person I'd guess you enjoyed success even before you decided to get this "best life". It may surprise you, I have met guys who preach the same things you do BUT NONE of them ever struggled ever which brings new meaning to "take it from whence it comes".

 

Where you are wrong is by not doing those things I don't forfeit any right at all, I merely point out an indisputable fact that its crowd mentality, that people go somewhere they don't like to try and find a partner to me is just staggeringly follow the crowd like. Then again I am someone who has never followed the crowd at anything.

 

I like they way you continue to paint utopia when there are millions of examples of people who never get anyone and MANY I am sure try the self same things you tout here, if the world you portray is perfect why are there pay sites and suchlike. You portray perfection but it is, its simply not, to tell everyone there is someone for them totally ignores a reality. I prefer to live in reality where realistically some never find success, in your world you will simply blame it on them rather than the entire way dating seems to work. Yes, you cant change it but you can acknowledge its fundamentally flawed.

 

You say I should ask for advice. Ok I have done this once before and let me give you the gist of what it was

1: You must go out and meet people

2: Make friends

3: Be outgoing

4: Dress like this

Where have I heard all this before. 1, 2 and 3 are problematic. I cant make guy friends never mind lady ones, ok I might have one now but its based on work nothing more. I am shy, yes on my day I can be outgoing but those days are quite rare. Its very easy to prescribe advice but when the person prescribing said advice is 100 out of 10 its difficult to understand how someone like that can relate to me and my situation. Maybe one day I'll meet someone who was like me and managed the impossible.

 

I do play the hand I have dealt, its not a one which appeals to many if any which I guess is the reality of it. Probably the only way I can see to change it is to work on being totally superficial and then see what happens but I suspect that will only take me so far.

 

Reality is all/most of this is my own fault and perhaps if I had read the above at 16-20 I would have been able to change things around a bit when I had more opportunities. As it stands nobody is interested in a 33yo virgin who has never dated, you simply cannot beat the societal stigma attached to that.

[NTV]

There is doing what you need and doing what you hate because you think it will get you what you need.

 

Because I wont go sit in a bar, I am unwilling? Perhaps a poll is needed here to determine where people actually find success because I find it doubtful everyone picks up girlfriends at bars and clubs.

 

You wanted your best life so just did what everyone else does, that's fine it worked for you but tell me this before you wanted this supposed best life what sort of success did you have, some success, no success. If I was a betting person I'd guess you enjoyed success even before you decided to get this "best life". It may surprise you, I have met guys who preach the same things you do BUT NONE of them ever struggled ever which brings new meaning to "take it from whence it comes".

 

Where you are wrong is by not doing those things I don't forfeit any right at all, I merely point out an indisputable fact that its crowd mentality, that people go somewhere they don't like to try and find a partner to me is just staggeringly follow the crowd like. Then again I am someone who has never followed the crowd at anything.

 

I like they way you continue to paint utopia when there are millions of examples of people who never get anyone and MANY I am sure try the self same things you tout here, if the world you portray is perfect why are there pay sites and suchlike. You portray perfection but it is, its simply not, to tell everyone there is someone for them totally ignores a reality. I prefer to live in reality where realistically some never find success, in your world you will simply blame it on them rather than the entire way dating seems to work. Yes, you cant change it but you can acknowledge its fundamentally flawed.

 

You say I should ask for advice. Ok I have done this once before and let me give you the gist of what it was

1: You must go out and meet people

2: Make friends

3: Be outgoing

4: Dress like this

Where have I heard all this before. 1, 2 and 3 are problematic. I cant make guy friends never mind lady ones, ok I might have one now but its based on work nothing more. I am shy, yes on my day I can be outgoing but those days are quite rare. Its very easy to prescribe advice but when the person prescribing said advice is 100 out of 10 its difficult to understand how someone like that can relate to me and my situation. Maybe one day I'll meet someone who was like me and managed the impossible.

 

I do play the hand I have dealt, its not a one which appeals to many if any which I guess is the reality of it. Probably the only way I can see to change it is to work on being totally superficial and then see what happens but I suspect that will only take me so far.

 

Reality is all/most of this is my own fault and perhaps if I had read the above at 16-20 I would have been able to change things around a bit when I had more opportunities. As it stands nobody is interested in a 33yo virgin who has never dated, you simply cannot beat the societal stigma attached to that.

 

fear of rejection is a powerful thing isn't it? It's immobilize you for about 20 years now right?

 

You're here because doing the same thing is just going to keep giving you the same results and you know that. But it also sounds like you're unwilling to change what you doing.

 

Does that about capture Where You Are?

[ZA Dater]

fear of rejection is a powerful thing isn't it? It's immobilize you for about 20 years now right?

 

You're here because doing the same thing is just going to keep giving you the same results and you know that. But it also sounds like you're unwilling to change what you doing.

 

Does that about capture Where You Are?

 

Not really, I think I have been rejected often enough to simply not enjoy the feeling or have any particular need to feel it again, sure if I had some success and then got rejected sure.

 

At the end of the day I cant be doing everything totally wrong if a friend of a friend tells me her friend had fun around me at an event. Maybe it is what you make of it but for me that small compliment just lifts me and sure this friend has a bf but nonetheless if I had a few more of these small victories.

[Imajerk17]

I saw an update on this thread and I thought I should respond. I must admit though OP, I only skimmed through the tsunami of words in your recent posts. Too much writing anyway.

 

Look ZA, you take yourself way too seriously. You were invited out so that you can relax and enjoy a little silliness and maybe even make new friends in the process, not so that people can make fun of you. Hell one of the girls might have even taught you to dance!

 

I get that clubs are not your thing. Fine, do something else the next weekend. Or even just say no and forget about it. But meanwhile, the way you say no and then write all these words trying to rationalize why (how shallow and stupid most people are, how you just can't connect w anyone, how you find more productive ways to spend your time)...you are just going around and around in circles. I mean, here you are talking about an invitation to go out a full **5 DAYS** after the fact, it's even almost next weekend.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Imajerk17