Shindig Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 My other half raised his 2 kid sisters after their parents passed. He and I have had a role that's somewhere between big brother/sister and dad/mom. One sister dates a guy who won't work, claims to be disabled, but won't apply for disability 'out of pride' she says (enabling him) and is afraid to bring it up "again" which worries me that she's asked him multiple times and he's presumably invalidated her and/or punished her for bringing it up. He's introduced her to drugs (I do think pot should be legal, but it's not going to help either of them move up in the world to be spending a portion of her hard earned money on something that could confer a criminal record.) I've watched him slowly erode her self esteem and introduce new stresses into her life in order to keep her off balance. She works, he doesn't. Finances are stretched. He broke his foot 2 years ago and has no problem driving, walking, sitting for hours as far as I can tell, isn't looking for work and isn't collecting disability. He tells her he'd be dead on the street if she wasn't taking care of him (he lived with his grandmother before and presumably grandmother had stricter rules/requirements for him), for example. Another example of a troubling yet typical interaction between the two of them would be me walking into a room where she's on her hands and knees cleaning cat pee from the kitten he picked up from a neighbor (she definitely can't afford another pet) and he's looming over her watching. I said, "Would you like some help? I feel bad just standing here." He proceeded to make a show of 'shooing away' the cat who had no interest in interfering with her activity (which tells me he knows this looks bad) while I helped her with the mess. She's got gorgeous auburn hair, he calls it mousey brown. She's got a underwear model figure and he tells her she's scrawny. He tells her people don't like her (including me) when I love her like family. He's sabotaged her efforts to go back to school (he used her savings to get the kitten fixed and get himself a video game console. She cried and he played dumb that the money was for school) and be more independent (repeatedly "forgetting" or making other plans to take her for her driver's ed test to the point where she eventually just gave up). From talking with her, she doesn't think she can do better at work and I infer from that she thinks he's also the best she can do, but I avoid the topic. It's all textbook abuser behavior a la Lundy Bancroft. The other issue is that he just generally makes me uncomfortable and pings a lot of ex-boyfriend buttons (my ex was similarly unemployed because it was easier to live off me. I broke up with him when he admitted he didn't have a job because he didn't want to get one. After 3 years unemployment, he got a job 2 days after I kicked him out.) I've considered carefully that my past issues might be coloring my perception of this guy, but in talking with other family members, nobody likes him. I don't think I'm imagining or overinflating that he's a loser. I know I'm the bad guy either way. If I say something I risk alienating her and then I can't help her when she really needs someone. If I don't say anything, she might end up making a kid with this guy and be linked to him forever. I've been rationalizing that she'll be ready when she's ready and not a moment sooner and I'm watching things escalate as she's faced with increased pressures; her sister is moving out and she'll be saddled with 100% of the bills and her sister won't be around to drive her (she has no license and no car. When she needs to go somewhere, her boyfriend drives the sister's car *if* he feels like it which usually only happens when they're going to hang out with *his* friends). Should I continue to avoid the topic and let her get there on her own or should I say something? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Tough spot. I work on the idea of only giving opinions if they are asked for. Rarely is advice taken well if it's not wanted. That said, if she uses you as a shoulder to cry on, feel free to say what you think. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
angel.eyes Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Is she an adult? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Shindig Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 She frequently comes to me for advice (which is awesome - I want to be there for her), but she avoids this particular topic and I can't help but wonder if on some level she knows what I'd say. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 You know how young people always have to make their own mistakes. Hopefully he won't try to marry her since he has no money for a ring. My priority with her would be to make SURE she is on birth control pills so she's not stuck with that loser for life. The other thing you can attempt to do is work on her self-esteem so she won't think this loser is who she deserves. It sounds like she had a rough childhood, so maybe she is connecting with him over something like that. Get her in classes to do with her dream, you know, like if she wants to be a singer or actor, get her in private classes to build her self-esteem and change her focus. Cooking class, whatever it is she wants to do. Send her abroad if you can afford it. Somewhere like France or Italy where guys will be all over her. Travel works wonders on one's perspective. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Shindig Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 Legally she's an adult at 22. I'm not her parent. I have an awkward mentor/older sister role that's hard to explain just because of her being raised by an older brother who was 20 when he started taking care of her ten years ago and me being around for the last couple of years. She's been with this guy for almost a year. She's got some social anxiety issues that led to her dropping out of college and complicate things (she's still paying off bills for being hospitalized with a nervous breakdown some time ago, e.g.). She's a little behind in her development for missing out on those social opportunities that happen during university and for being raised by first an abusive schizophrenic parent and then her brother (who is an amazing compassionate person, but he wasn't even remotely prepared to raise his siblings). 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Shindig Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 That's basically the approach I've been taking in encouraging her to invest in herself. The rub is that she's so off balance (no time, no money, no driver's license, no car) she's having trouble making that happen. I've offered to get her to the DMV anytime she wants, but she's working extra hours lately. I might just keep pushing that one and hope the extra freedom can snowball when it eventually happens. Thanks! 3 Link to post Share on other sites
angel.eyes Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Other than be supportive and be there when she needs you, there's very little you can do that won't antagonize her. She avoids seeking your advice on him even though she comes to you for guidance on other things. So she already knows the gist of what you're likely to say, and isn't interested in hearing it. It would be unwelcome advice. Forcing the topic will just push her away...and sadly towards him even more. Unfortunately, this is going to be a learning experience that she puts herself through. Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) That's basically the approach I've been taking in encouraging her to invest in herself. The rub is that she's so off balance (no time, no money, no driver's license, no car) she's having trouble making that happen. I've offered to get her to the DMV anytime she wants, but she's working extra hours lately. I might just keep pushing that one and hope the extra freedom can snowball when it eventually happens. Thanks! first off i would like to say to you i feel you are an amazing loving compassionate person...now that's done ...smilin....hey shindig another poster suggested getting her out to do her passion in classes sing dance act kick box....whatever..this is a really good idea...it helps with self esteem.....after an emotional breakdown its hard sometimes to get back up to that place where you feel good about yourself.....creativity helps.....it really does......getting out in fresh air helps in a scientific functioning way ... especially when you dont want to go out at all just oen outing a day however small can change a persons perspective..... also ...let her come to you...by the sounds of it..... she will.....if it gets to the point where she cant handle it herself anymore.....i got to that point quite a few times in my life my church i go to now..... saved me you know.....the hidden way that happened..not only the obvious to reconcile me with god.............was it got me out of the house on a regular weekly basis in a safe and nurturing environment we have regular activities and women's meetings...to tell the truth....never had many women friends ...always males.....i had more trust issues with females.....i understand men.....but since church .....my perspective has changed......i dont have a car well i do but i dont drive and i need to get my drivers license first ...i know when i do ......i will be out a lot.....because i love nature and i do love people so i can visit people......i care about......but through church i have made caring friends.....and they offer to take me places ...i dont even have to ask.....i really hate asking.....even with this loathing i feel comfortable enough to ask...and that's change in me.....through simple kindness and compassion they have bought me partway out my shell...i joined choirs and i do creative writing now.....huge changes have come about.......one person i can talk to with lack fo judgment is my bishop he si a real dad figure even though eh is younger he is really thoughtful......and has a way fo speaking that helps you to coem to a decision by yourself..... thats what adults need to do ....choose to make their own decisions advice is to be taken into consideration when choosing a path.....you sound very caring....and i am sure you are very much appreciated by your sis.....fi sh ereally needs you she wil come to you......ultimately she will make her own mistakes or have success life isnt risk free...sometimes you have to jump even when everybody tells you dont jump, dont jump you will fall......and mistakes often teach us more than success does....teaches how to stand back up again after falling......i often leap...in spite of advice.....sometimes its right for me to jump ...and sometimes its an epic fail.....i never do anything by halfs....i have family who are there for me .....i have strong role models in my life i can turn to ...women and men.....and i would like to think...i am strong too enough to make my own mind up......and be respected.....people do come to me for advice.....even though i am often jumping myself..... whatever your sister decides...it isnt your responsibility you do enough by being there....thats all you need to do be there in times she makes right decisions and times she makes wrong ones...and just love her as you do..sometimes fixing a mess you made yourself is infinitely better than not ever knowing what that mess looks like....and understanding how that mess came to be there and accepting responsibility ...and even asking for advice or help to clean it up........its growth..and a chance for humbling experiences.......stand by her ...as she grows.........best wishes always....deb Edited February 28, 2017 by todreaminblue Link to post Share on other sites
O'Malley Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I'll second what Preraph said - make sure that she's on a reliable form of birth control. Just continue to be a supportive presence in her life, emphasize her options and her future, from getting her license to looking into returning to school. Encourage her to be your buddy in a class, a sport, a girls night out, take her out to socialize with people who aren't his buddies. She knows he's a loser and it sounds like she's getting burnt out by his behavior, but unfortunately she is still strongly influenced by and dependent on the relationship due to her inexperience and good nature. Your best hope is that as she matures and sees her peers getting educations, working and contributing as equal partners, she'll outgrow him emotionally and find the strength to leave him. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Shindig Posted March 26, 2017 Author Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) Relevant backstory here [threads merged] I wrote previously about a friend who is dating a guy who won't work, won't apply for unemployment and is basically useless (like... won't even do dishes. He just smokes pot all day). Her two roommates (her sister and brother/my boyfriend) are moving out and she's asking for help paying the property taxes and bills on the house the three sibings own together until they can sell the property (inherited after their parents moved out for retirement). I see it as an opportunity to put pressure on the useless boyfriend to get work or apply for disability since she's not just asking us to support her, she's also asking them to support him too and we don't think he's as cute as she does ::ew::. She's not asking him because he punishes her by pouting and getting upset that she's being "too demanding" /eyeroll. What's the most diplomatic way to engage him in a discussion about getting work without having it blow back on her. Obviously the best option would be for her to stop supporting this guy/break up with him, but he's manipulative and she's got self esteem issues. Help me help my friend, pls! Edited March 26, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Threads merged ~6 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 I think all anyone can do is refuse to help her and tell her why: Because your live-in boyfriend is who should be helping you and you're not asking anything of him. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 You keep out of it unless your friend asks for help. The only way for her to learn is to have consequences for her decisions. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
SpiralOut Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) I don't think anyone should talk to the bf about getting work. There is no way to do it without pissing him off. In fact, if it really bothered the other roommates that much, they could have refused to let him live there in the first place. For whatever reason, they didn't. Now that they moving out, what happens next is beyond their control. All they can do is agree or disagree to help financially. Edited March 27, 2017 by SpiralOut Link to post Share on other sites
Author Shindig Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 She never asked when he moved in. He just spent more and more time at the house and suddenly we realized he was living there. Link to post Share on other sites
SpiralOut Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 They could have forced him to leave. From what you describe, it sounds like they own the home. If it's two siblings against one, they are well within their rights to kick out an unwanted tenant/houseguest. It sounds like the two roommates are afraid of rocking the boat. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 I don't think anyone should talk to the bf about getting work. There is no way to do it without pissing him off. In fact, if it really bothered the other roommates that much, they could have refused to let him live there in the first place. For whatever reason, they didn't. Now that they moving out, what happens next is beyond their control. All they can do is agree or disagree to help financially. I agree. Nothing teaches you like experience. Leave her alone. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 I still say the most important thing, even though she's not your child, is to have a serious talk with her about birth control and get her on it. No one else is going to! I mentored a younger woman with issues who 30 years later is my best friend. I am sure I'm the first one who told her she drank too much and that it changed her when she did. Her mother was alive but this girl had been through some trauma and her mother was very laid back and not proactive. Was afraid of saying the wrong thing and losing her. I wasn't afraid of that, so I became like an older sister. I recently talked to her about getting her girl on birth control early because of how attention-seeking her girl is. So I still talk to her about stuff like that. It doesn't hurt. Have a serious talk about it. She's going to use money for an excuse. If you really want to help her, tell her the one and only thing you would be willing to pay for is a doctor visit and then birth control pills for her. But if you do, tell her you'll have to go with her to be sure she does that. If you're in the US, take her to Planned Parenthood where she can get discounted rates. You have nothing to lose by trying. Link to post Share on other sites
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