I dont know what I should be expecting?

[viatori patuit]

First, sorry you have to deal with this situation. I have been on both sides of this and know the pain you feel.

 

My first marriage ended with single conversation. I never saw her again and I was positively tormented. I am 6 foot one and I was down to 138 pounds after 30 days of not eating. Sleep was a rarity during that time and all I wanted to know was "why?". I found out very early on why. I got very sick early on and had to stay home from work. While home, maybe five guys called my home line looking for my soon to be ex wife. It did not take a rocket scientist to figure out she was having an affair. Was it physical or just emotional? I don't know. I was too sick to try and find out.

 

Fast forward 15 years and I was in a dead relationship. I never took the time to process and work through what happened and I just jumped into a relationship with a very nice girl who was not compatible with me. As I struggled with this I met a girl who want NSA sex. To my shame I jumped at it with gusto. I quickly realized my mistake and ended my second marriage. I should have ended it first, but I simply was a coward.

 

I finally started to connect the dots and today I can see both sides. I understand why infidelity happens, but I could never condone it. The guilt and shame is enormous and I felt every bit as horrible as I did on the other side.

 

My experience has been a blessing in disguise. Today I am stronger and more

confident. I understand this may happen to me again and I am not the least bit frightened if it does. Been there and done that. I know this situation has more to do with the cheaters psyche then it does me. I can say I will not cheat ever again. I will end the relationship before I ever contemplate that.

 

Good luck with your choices. I never did try to reconcile so I am not sure about that. I have to believe that is infinitely harder than running like I did.

[Mrs. John Adams]

It is a rarity. What is NOT rare, however, is a WS minimizing the number of times they physically cheated. And it seems they never minimize it to "only twice" or " only a handful of times"

 

They all start off with "once," and if that flies, they let it. This place is chocked full of BS's who found how what once really meant.

 

My om kicked me out of his bed to go on a "real" date...and never really pursued me again.

 

Maybe he got a conscience? but I doubt it....maybe he thought I wasn't worth the trouble?...more likely...or just maybe...I was a bad screw

 

and my only reason to post this is to say...sometimes we all act like we know everything...but in reality...we are just guessing....and until someone speaks out to set us straight that things are not quite the way we say it is....

this crap will continue

 

I am here to tell you...not every affair is the same....not every wayward is the same...and not every affair partner is the same either....and when push comes to shove....every betrayed is also not the same

 

so maybe we all need to stop projecting our personal experience on new people...and telling them that we know their waywards are lying...no doubt about it

[understand50]

johnjones,

 

What you are hearing is the benefit of both WS and BS from the point of view of their experience. Some divorced, some were able to reconcile, and worst of all, some are just not sure where they are at. There is no reason if you want to why you could not reconcile if that is your choose. There is no reason why you should not divorce, if that is what you feel you need. I can tell you from me, reconciliation, from both her ONS, and from her financial infidelity is what was and continues to be the best for me, and the woman I love. There is no right answer written in the stars, and no one is going to hold you both accountable except yourselves.

 

I think you are trying to reconcile. I think your wife is doing everything she knows to try and help you. Is there more that can be done? Yup, and the link in my first post is just a first step. You need to read and study, and put into practice what works for both you and her.

 

I am a big believer that once you decide to reconcile, to go on, you need to work on yourself, but also be there for your spouse. She did evil and hurt you, but she is also scared, and hurting as well. At the end of all this hurt and pain, you want a better marriage, a better relationship. Compassion for the WS that is trying to do right, goes along way to both help her and help relive your pain and the pain in general. The true rock that can be built from all this is for both of you to remind yourself, it is not all about ones self. You can be strong and not a doormat, but you can also be kind and have compassion. You will need both courage and strength to get though this, but remember, you do not want a beat down wife, but a woman, wife and lover who understands what she did and will never repeat it. That is part of forgiveness, and while you will never forget, the forgiveness can help when you when you feel triggers and the nightmare came back for a visit. Remember, she will always have the same feelings, but made worse because she forgot her morals and let this happen.

 

What can you expect?

 

Some pain and remembrance for a lifetime, but time and new memories will dull these. You will learn about human frailty, and remorse, and you will learn about how compassionate you can be, and how you can reach beyond yourself, and see a better future. You can also help redeem your FWS, and help her on the path to becoming a better person and wife. You can grow and become stronger then before.

 

If you divorce, you can give the last gift of love to your wife, a clean quick break with no hope left of getting back together.

 

I wish you luck.....

[JohnAdams]

You have no children, so perhaps it is best to call it quits and start over. It is much tougher when children are involved.

 

On all of this how many times they had sex, if it was once or a hundred times, does it really make any difference? Your wife had sex with another man, the ultimate insult to you! The number is just a number.

 

There is no hurry, you are doing the right things in trying to see if you can reconcile. In the end, it may be too much. Do what is right for you.

 

Divorce or reconcile, this will always be part of your life. Best of luck with whatever you choose.

[TrustedthenBusted]

My om kicked me out of his bed to go on a "real" date...and never really pursued me again.

 

Maybe he got a conscience? but I doubt it....maybe he thought I wasn't worth the trouble?...more likely...or just maybe...I was a bad screw

 

and my only reason to post this is to say...sometimes we all act like we know everything...but in reality...we are just guessing....and until someone speaks out to set us straight that things are not quite the way we say it is....

this crap will continue

 

I am here to tell you...not every affair is the same....not every wayward is the same...and not every affair partner is the same either....and when push comes to shove....every betrayed is also not the same

 

so maybe we all need to stop projecting our personal experience on new people...and telling them that we know their waywards are lying...no doubt about it

 

 

I'm not saying she's lying. I am just saying there is a possibility, if not a PROBABILITY that she is minimizing.

 

And I know, not just from my own experience, but from life, and from the hundreds of stories here, that many affairs ARE in fact very much the same. I see it every time I come here.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I'm not saying she's lying. I am just saying there is a possibility, if not a PROBABILITY that she is minimizing.

 

And I know, not just from my own experience, but from life, and from the hundreds of stories here, that many affairs ARE in fact very much the same. I see it every time I come here.

 

every scenario is a possibility

 

of course she could be lying

 

and so could he be lying

 

how many threads are started here by people making up stories as they go to reel us in so we comment

 

and no two affairs are exactly the same...they may have similarities...but they are not the same...because the people are involved are different

 

 

I am not criticizing you...I do the same thing

 

We project our situations onto other people and we think we have the right answers

 

We have insight...we have walked a similar path...but we don't know how these two people feel because we are not them

 

If I knew then what i know now....would i have changed the path we have walked? and would John?

 

 

We love each other immensely....but would divorce have been easier?

 

I don't know

 

Did we do the right thing?

 

I think we did...but how do any of us know?

 

This man...says he loves his wife. He says he wants her. Is that the right thing for him? I don't know.

 

But who am I and what right do i have to tell him...I know better than he does...what is right for him?

 

is she lying? probably

 

is he lying? maybe

 

next thread......

[understand50]

As always, OP in this case johnjones, is the giver of facts. He states he is fairly sure she only had sex once. Unless he comes back and restates, that she did more, we should go on what he tells us. At some point you, as BS, must accept you have the story from a cooperating WS. He has asked what to expect. I think we have given him a good idea. Now there are times, when my imagination gets ahead of me and wonder if I know all, but the truth is I probably do, as I am a intelligent and thorough person. In order for more to have gone on, I would have to dismiss 40 plus years of marriage, and her characters during our marriage. I do not see it. I am sure this is the same for Mr and Mrs Adams and many others. There will always be a little doubt, but at some point the odds are heavily in favor of you knowing all and also know just how many times Sex happened and anything else you may wonder about.

 

johnjones, do not chase the last 1%, when you are 99% sure. 1% will always be there, but unless she is actively working to hide things, what are your odds?

 

I wish you luck....

[Try]

every scenario is a possibility

 

of course she could be lying

 

and so could he be lying

 

how many threads are started here by people making up stories as they go to reel us in so we comment

 

and no two affairs are exactly the same...they may have similarities...but they are not the same...because the people are involved are different

Although "every scenario is a possibility", from experience we know that some are probable and others are highly unlikely, with cheaters usually trying to get you to believe that the highly unlikely that they only did it once is the truth. As for you saying that "no two affairs are exactly the same", they are usually so close to following the same cheaters script that I sometimes have to think a bit to remember what thread I am on. BTW, a major study on infidelity showed that in only 7% of all affairs do the cheaters ever admit to even having an affair (despite the evidence) much less give truthful details. It is not a stretch at all to say that the cheater is not telling their spouse the full truth about the affair, as that is almost a given when you talk about affairs.

[merrmeade]

The quote above is one of the most profound statement on remorse that I have ever read, especially when you say "don't confuse remorse with being sorry....remorse is about understanding the pain she has caused."

Yes, I'm also glad that it's coming out as normal for someone who's cheated not to wholly embrace remorse in its perfect form in the beginning. I related to this because I don't think my husband will EVER get there. It's a fact. I will always have to be satisfied with the sincere apologies I've gotten. But whatever paln he experienced was about himself.

 

It's a rare person gets the remorse full package imo.

 

As Mrs. JA said, deep, pure remorse is understanding the pain caused, but I would add one more thing before that. It's also WANTING to understand it. It may see like some WSs finally understood because of something that fell out of the sky in front of them - like Mrs. JA reading the Linda McDonald book - but uh, uh. I don't buy that either. They were already getting ready on another, less conscious level; they just weren't aware of it. But they were putting together all the pieces and pieces to the foundation in place.

[Cephalopod]

OP, I would recommend that, given you are still young and have no kids, you should run, not walk, to a lawyer and file. You will never forget this or ever truly get over it. Yes, it is possible to rebuild your marriage, but it will tak a MASSIVE amount of work and effort on both your parts to ever hope to achieve some kind of parity in the marriag again. It will be a marriage with a limp.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Cephalopod

[KatieLaw]

You are doing a lot of blame-shifting and taking a lot of the heat for your wife climbing on and riding some other dude.

 

BS's will often accept a hefty serving of blame because if they can blame themselves, then they will also feel like they will be able to have some control and will be able to fix it. It gives them a sense of empowerment in that if they feel that they can play the "Pick Me! Dance" well enough, the WS will choose them over the AP.

 

The fallacy with this thought process though is that the reality is the WS got down with the AP do to their own lack of character and moral direction. They did it because the AP turned them on and they went for it. They did it because they wanted to. They did it because they wanted some extra fun, excitement, attention, validation and just simply didn't have the respect and regard for their BS to say no.

 

In other words, it's because they suck.

 

Let me put this in another frame. If you weren't good enough and weren't meeting her needs and she felt she would have been better off without you - she would have left you, with or without an AP waiting in the wings.

 

If she felt the OM was a better man for her and he would have offered to take her fulltime - she would have left you for him.

 

so what this all means is either she was just getting some extra strange for fun and excitement.

 

Or she was wanting to go with the OM but he was just wanting a pump and dump from her and didn't want to take her fulltime.........in which case you are right - she is just using you as a back up plan and fall-back guy.

 

Either way, she is simply cake-eating and it has nothing to do with you. It's on her.

 

Your choice here is whether you want to settle and take back a woman that is either in "neutral" about her feelings for you, or is simply a person of very low character and moral fortitude.

 

Or whether you want to cut your losses and start a new life at the very prime and marketable and enviable age of 34.

 

It's really your choice on whether you want to deal with her crap and her baggage or not. I would encourage you to do what you want with your life and not really worry about what she wants. She didn't really care about you enough to not go down on some other guy's junk or to not wrap her legs over his shoulders. IMHO she tore up her wife card and waived her rights as a wife and waived her right for your consideration of her wants and needs.

 

Where do you want to go with your life is your question now.

 

Thank you so much. I agree with everything you said.

[KatieLaw]

This is what predatory OM do. They groom women to become AP's. They

work multiple women at the same time. Using the friend angle into an EA. Then the EA into a PA.

 

 

So why they are working a future WW they will be patient for months or

longer because they are currently banging a WW that they got her to have

an affair with them.

 

 

It is a numbers game for them.

I think that's what's happened to me! It was a very long time ago, but the man put way too much time on me for just a ONS (which he didn't get.) I thought he was my friend.

[Overtaxed]

I think that's what's happened to me! It was a very long time ago, but the man put way too much time on me for just a ONS (which he didn't get.) I thought he was my friend.

 

This is, honestly, from what I know of friends and what I've read online, what happens to most WW's. Sad thing is, the "emotional connection" (which is what most women seem to be missing in their marriages when they step out) that you get from the AP is, at least in most of the cases I know, a complete illusion. It's words that sound like emotion, but there's no feeling behind them.

 

The sex that the male AP gets however? That's real. It really happened. He gets to "reflect" on that for the rest of his life and so does the unfortunate female AP who falls into this kind of thing.

 

In short, very often the male AP gets what he really wants (sex). The female AP almost never does; men, especially married men, aren't going to build an emotional connection with their "side chick"; in fact, they are going to actively avoid it while, at the same time, pretending like they do.

 

TLDR version. If you want an emotional connection, don't get into an A with a married person. You're not going to get it, even if you think you are; it's an illusion. If you want sex, then having an A, as much as I hate to say it, will fulfill that need. And, if you enter into an A with a man who seems to know all the right things to say? He's done this before. You're probably in a rotation with his W and a few other girls who he's whispering sweet nothings to.

 

It's sad, it really is. And no, I don't think all women are the victims here, they willingly enter into it. But man, if you could sit in on one conversation between my friends, you'd never do it. Because, chances are very good, you're going to be the butt of the joke at some dinner in the near future. He'll leave your bed telling you he loves you and then come tell me what a stupid woman you are for falling for his BS. Is this all male APs? No, of course not. Is it many/most of them? IMHO, yes, it is.

[KatieLaw]

This is, honestly, from what I know of friends and what I've read online, what happens to most WW's. Sad thing is, the "emotional connection" (which is what most women seem to be missing in their marriages when they step out) that you get from the AP is, at least in most of the cases I know, a complete illusion. It's words that sound like emotion, but there's no feeling behind them.

 

The sex that the male AP gets however? That's real. It really happened. He gets to "reflect" on that for the rest of his life and so does the unfortunate female AP who falls into this kind of thing.

 

In short, very often the male AP gets what he really wants (sex). The female AP almost never does; men, especially married men, aren't going to build an emotional connection with their "side chick"; in fact, they are going to actively avoid it while, at the same time, pretending like they do.

 

TLDR version. If you want an emotional connection, don't get into an A with a married person. You're not going to get it, even if you think you are; it's an illusion. If you want sex, then having an A, as much as I hate to say it, will fulfill that need. And, if you enter into an A with a man who seems to know all the right things to say? He's done this before. You're probably in a rotation with his W and a few other girls who he's whispering sweet nothings to.

 

It's sad, it really is. And no, I don't think all women are the victims here, they willingly enter into it. But man, if you could sit in on one conversation between my friends, you'd never do it. Because, chances are very good, you're going to be the butt of the joke at some dinner in the near future. He'll leave your bed telling you he loves you and then come tell me what a stupid woman you are for falling for his BS. Is this all male APs? No, of course not. Is it many/most of them? IMHO, yes, it is.

 

I'm glad I didn't have sex with him. I asked my H what he remembered about the (his friend)and it's not much. The man barely came around until I entered the scene! I was secure and looking for nothing. Can't imagine if it were otherwise. Thanks for your honest assessment.

[johnjones]

I can't thank everyone enough for all your input and help. Its given me a lot of food for thought. I will have to print it all off and go back to Iceland to contemplate it! ( i went there alone in Dec mainly to see if she would miss me... Which she didn't... Much... But then she must've been still trying to get over the om)

 

I originally wanted any ideas of what I should be expecting from her in the way of remorse, I think I see now that I have been expecting too much. I don't want her to be moping about all the time, but I didn't want her to be acting like nothing has happened either. Again, thanks to the article she has read - I see she is being that little bit more compassionate and considerate these last few days. Hopefully she will be able to keep it up for as long at I need it.

 

I must say that the reason I beleive once was once in this case is because I managed to undelete many of her messages, one of the last messages was her asking for him to arrange a place they could go "even if it's just to cry" - this was days before we went on holiday where I found out. Im 99% certain this was an ea on the brink of turning physical- not a ons. She has even said she regrets taking that next step. The only thing I'm struggling to beleive is the manner in which it happened. I think I'd rather beleive it was how she has described ( clumsy, boring and clothed) than question it!

 

There has been much talk here of reconcile vs divorce, especially since we have no children. I have been particularly interested in those saying they reconciled but it would've been better to divorce. My own mother has been through this and she advised me to also forgive but then she had 4 children at the time ,- But then again, she is heavily religious and doesn't agree with divorce - so many variables!

 

I would love to beleive that the hard work and heavy lifting that is needed to come through this together is going to be worth while. And I won't regret it. I guess the truth is I won't know until a bit further down the line. But your experiences have been insightful. Also, Thankyou life lessons for mentioning that it's more likely to be infatuation than love. I'll hang on to that, probably get it tattood somewhere ?

 

I would also like to comment on the codependency thought as I found that very interesting. We have been together for a long time, she has been my world and I have been hers, we were each others firsts but she was always more needy of me than vice versa. We have always been happy with this relationship, that's why I feel this was more an unfortunate set of circumstances where I was distracted, and she needed emotional support. Whether the om intended to get into her knickers or not he gave her the emotional support first and she fell. I'll look out for what my therapist says on that! - When I go and get one.

 

Im sure there was something else I wanted to comment on but it's late and the dr told me to get plenty of rest!

 

Thankyou all once again!

[Try]

I must say that the reason I beleive once was once in this case is because I managed to undelete many of her messages, one of the last messages was her asking for him to arrange a place they could go "even if it's just to cry" - this was days before we went on holiday where I found out.

If this is what you are basing her "once was once" on, I do not see it as confirming any such thing. In fact I see it the other way around, where she wanting to see him even if it meant there would be no sex this time.

 

I think I'd rather beleive it was how she has described ( clumsy, boring and clothed) than question it!

You would laugh in the face of a friend if he told you the same thing about his wife's affair. To me this only confirms that she is selling you a line.

 

I feel this was more an unfortunate set of circumstances where I was distracted, and she needed emotional support.

Do you realize what you keep saying in trying to rationalize her cheating on you? You keep saying that while you were dealing with your dad "just having had 3 strokes", rather her being there for you, she goes of and cheats on you because you did not help her in "coping with a hard time at work". As if your father's life is less important than her work issues. While now you know. If you do not want your wife cheating on you again, you better get your priorities straight and not be "distracted" again by silly life and death issues of you family, so that you can always keep 100% of your focus on her.

 

You may prolong the pain and stretch it out, but your marriage will not end well when it in fact does end, and it will unless you stop doing what you are currently doing.

[merrmeade]

I would love to beleive that the hard work and heavy lifting that is needed to come through this together is going to be worth while. And I won't regret it. I guess the truth is I won't know until a bit further down the line. But your experiences have been insightful. Also, Thankyou life lessons for mentioning that it's more likely to be infatuation than love.

Just know that I'm pretty sure most of us expressed some version of this optimism, too. I'm sure (hope) many were gratified later by this attitude and others who realized things would only improve just so much.

 

If you knew ahead of time where you'll end up on scale, you'd be psychic .

[Giacomo67]

jj, i think that you really need to just do something for your own self! Did you ever want something, or do something but just put it away for one reasn or another? Well---- NOW IT'S THE TIME TO DO IT!

Buy a motorbike? Get a Tatoo? Learn to fly? Get a new sports car? Meet new peaple? ANYTHING!

 

Start Loving your Life and detatch from everything negative, including your WW. Convince yourself that you dont need nobody, that you can and will do whatever it takes to feel happy.

YOU DONT HAVE TO DO hard work and heavy lifting, THATS NOT YOUR GOAL!

IT'S YOUR WW JOB TO DO.

 

Only then you will see in the long run if R or D is what you need.

[bigman1]

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you really have to stop thinking for her. You are so willing to look for any kind of "truth" that avoids the pain that is infidelity.

 

You said, "she was my world and I was hers". Clearly, that is not true. She may have been your world, but not the other way around. Stop romanticizing your relationship. Too many "nice guys" do this. You had a marriage with all of the warts and beauty that any ordinary marriage had. You adored your wife, so there was a lot that you overlooked, missed, excused, or downplayed.

 

You also said, in reference to their encounter, "I think I'd rather beleive it was how she has described ( clumsy, boring and clothed) than question it!" Please stop.

 

If you want to R, you have to do so with the HARSH UNFILTERED TRUTH. If you decide to D, you have to do so with the same.

 

Start here: YOU WERE NOT HER WORLD. Sorry. Now what will you do?

[Mrs. John Adams]

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you really have to stop thinking for her. You are so willing to look for any kind of "truth" that avoids the pain that is infidelity.

 

You said, "she was my world and I was hers". Clearly, that is not true. She may have been your world, but not the other way around. Stop romanticizing your relationship. Too many "nice guys" do this. You had a marriage with all of the warts and beauty that any ordinary marriage had. You adored your wife, so there was a lot that you overlooked, missed, excused, or downplayed.

 

You also said, in reference to their encounter, "I think I'd rather beleive it was how she has described ( clumsy, boring and clothed) than question it!" Please stop.

 

If you want to R, you have to do so with the HARSH UNFILTERED TRUTH. If you decide to D, you have to do so with the same.

 

Start here: YOU WERE NOT HER WORLD. Sorry. Now what will you do?

 

Let me fix this... at one time you very well might have been her world... and you could even be her world again. But during the time of her affair her world revolved around her... she lost focus of her world and she focused on herself. She became her world. This is truth. If you had remained her world... she would never have cheated.

 

I don't doubt for a minute you used to be her world...because my husband was mine...

 

Now I can't explain why or how I became my own universe but I can tell you with certainty that i did.

 

Now you must ask yourself as big man has suggested... can you live with this knowledge? Can you commit to this woman who placed herself first?

 

Are you willing to take the chance that she might do it again...can you live the remainder of your days always asking why? And never getting a satisfactory answer?

 

My husband is my world... maybe even more so now than ever before .. because I know I almost lost him.... and I am 100% to blame.

 

I pray that if you choose reconciliation that your wife gives you everything you need for healing... I pray you once again become her world... and I pray you live happily ever after.

[Nirbhao.Nirvair]

 

There has been much talk here of reconcile vs divorce, especially since we have no children. I have been particularly interested in those saying they reconciled but it would've been better to divorce. My own mother has been through this and she advised me to also forgive but then she had 4 children at the time ,- But then again, she is heavily religious and doesn't agree with divorce - so many variables!

 

 

 

Why does your wife want to reconcile? Beyond the codependency, beyond the guilt, there must be some higher need that should justify the reconciliation for both of you. Luckily you both know, it's not for the children. Did she tell you why didn't she leave you and tried to end the affair before you found out, even though she came very close to that? Have you had a heart-to-heart discussion on that yet?

 

 

From what you have posted here, you seem to have not had that discussion. Is it because you are afraid you wouldn't hear what you want to hear, but end up hearing that she stayed out of guilt, as you have mentioned earlier? If it is just guilt, then if you chose to adult-up and decide to forgive her and offer her a divorce and a life with her OM, will she have taken that? An answer to that question will go a long way to lessen your pain.

 

 

Anyway, it's good to see that she is doing some heavy-lifting. But that won't be enough to cure your paranoia. A real discussion on the reasons for reconciling will do that.