Dumper can't seem to get past my last relationship:(

[Sourpatchtiger]

Okay so to preface this is going to be long but I do use paragraphs. I had to break up with my ex gf and it was absolutely scarring and I just can't seem to get over it. I know this gorgeous, amazing, sweet girl who went out of her way to ask me to take her on a date and for some reason I just couldn't say yes. I just couldn't. Okay so here is some backstory or else you won't understand the situation. Thanks for any and all help/advice:)

 

My now ex and I are from different countries (I'm American and she is Filipina) but she was here for a few years and we met at my college and were just friends. Believe it or not my ex before this one committed suicide on some other stuff. I have been to therapy sessions and they helped greatly but during this time I couldn't go back to school and it just so happened my cousin's husband committed suicide so we spent the summer and spring together and also my last ex was there she definitely helped me through some dark days. I decided I needed to go back home and left school and ended up taking up a loftily business opportunity for a 21 year old. I also started dating my ex (blurred lines).

 

Okay so my ex moved to Thailand for work after she got her degree (can't stay here more than visa allowed). She was also mad I left school for business (I also didn't want to end up with a 200K debt like my sister who has several medical degrees. I digress. I had never been in a serious LDR like this but I had the money at the time to visit so I did.

 

One year I actually spent three months traveling with her (some of the most amazing memories I've had in my short life). Sounds all nice but really it was so difficult with all my energy going into running a business. There were many fights, breakups and makeups, she was a lot of drama but I loved her like I've loved no other even though we were so different.

 

I felt around the end 2014 she may be cheating on me and also she accuse me of cheating (I've had so many opportunities but I had always passed because I don't cheat so this infuriated me bigtime) but I was pretty much always working so it didn't make sense but during this time I did not trust her. But I decided to see her from December to March (business was booming and I needed a long break because it was affecting my health and stuff). I confronted her about if she was seeing anyone else and to just be honest.

When it comes to feelings I am very open and raw but she is closed off, keeps stuff inside and it was so difficult to talk to her when we fight. Also she is Christian and I am agnostic (I believe in God I just don't put all my faith in books) and still finding my way in that area but I always was kind and gentle when it came to religious things and always went to church with her when I was with her. We even visited many of her family all over the world and they all loved me tremendously (her mom and sister and friends and i still talk but I stopped recently because it must be awkward for her and also weird for me)so no one was against us getting married (even my ex aunt/uncle who are pastor in church and super strict.

 

Even throughout all the fighting and stuff we had some of our best times together for sure and I could never nor would I ever want to forget those times. The real rough stuff comes now.

 

I had a fiancé visa going because I didn't want to move to Thailand (she wanted this) because it made more sense to have her come here to US. This process was only possible thanks to having connections and even with that was worse than writing any research paper. Plus super slow took about 2 years to get it done and I also had to go to embassy in bkk. What a pain right but I did it still and I felt she never really appreciated the effort I put in.

 

Around fast forward to September 2015 I was booking hotels for us to stay and using her email to setup the account when I accidentally stumbled onto a few message threads with another guy. I probably shouldn't have read them so in depth. I actually went back and matched up the dates he was with her to when she was acting funny (we always message each other yeah we were one of those couples) and they matched. So I decided I will not tell her yet and explore more through her email and stuff. Big mistake. She had been messaging many guys and saw this one guy a few times and actually broke up with him when I came to stay for 3 months. Talk about ****ed up got me feeling bad for him (he had no idea and actually bought her stuff like an iPhone and stuff). I mean I'm very romantic even when I wasn't there I'd have surprises set up at her work or home with flowers, stuffed animals, cake, other surprises just because I wanted to see her smile.

 

It has been a few days since I found out and I can't take it anymore and bring it up. She denies and everything and starts to get mad. I took photos of everything in case she decided to do this. I sent them. She stops and begins saying sorry and I had my reasons. When I heard that I went cold and decided I needed to take time away from her. This is where **** gets dark. She is prone to cutting and hurting herself (she has a messed up past) and she started cutting her wrists (my ex before this one killed herself by cutting her wrist taking pills and putting hairdryer in the tub but the dryer didn't work). This **** hit me and of course I am worried about her life so I call her back (had 100's messages from her and photos of her bleeding and with a handful of pills). I had to call her aunt and her go to check on her and they had to hospitalize her when they found her. Yeah this is not even everything.

 

A week later I broke up with her and said I need space but we had this vacay set up so we decided we will see each other and see if we can't work it out. I still needed my space and she understood that.

 

Our vacay was middle of Nov to end of Dec and we went to therapy and spent most of our time figuring things out. We had a few big fights and one time she took my hands and slapped herself with them and then tried to choke herslelf with an extension cord I had to stop her by pinning her to the bed. That is just one of many things.

 

We read the five love languages and other books to help us understand one another on a deeper level, which I highly recommend if you haven't read. It definitely helped both of us but when we went back to LDR I felt her fall back into same habits with somethings but she did definitely change and I appreciated that for sure because it showed she cared.

 

I broke up with her start of summer 2016 because we just couldn't communicate properly and I didn't feel it was fair to either of us if we broke up later as we will be married and she will have migrated her life here but if we broke up that would be bad for her. I had tried many times to tell her before she had to do more for me to trust her. I didn't mention before but there was this guy friend who apparently was madly in love with each other (she told me her aunt said she needed to do something about him cuz it was unfair to me. Weird so weird). After I found out I said she can't hang out with him if I can't hang out with my bff (she is like my little sister) and so we fought about that. On top of it the pastor's son at her church socially proclaimed his love for her and how they are supposed to be together (btw he is absolutely hideous and she always thought he was creepy). This just made things worse as I didn't trust her cuz when I did trust her she crushed it. She said she is trying all she can and doesn't know what to do. I don't know what to do but neither one of us was happy. I was ****ing miserable.

 

I basically told her I want to be friends but I can't take the chance on marriage with someone when I can't even trust them especially when a divorce would make our lives so much more miserable in the end. Long story shorter we didn't talk from April-Nov when she start messaging me. Weird as I've messaged her and she never even reads them. It feels like everything comes back when she messaged me. Apparently she has a new guy (kinda fast for a relationship of 3+ years). I'm actually glad she is with someone who makes her happy. I'm frustrated I can't move on. It isn't that I'm looking for anyone. I feel like it isn't worth being in a relationship with anyone. Is there something I can do to get over this feeling of being afraid to be in a relationship with another woman. I find I have no problem hitting it off but when they want more I find myself running for the hills. And I can't stand it because I know it is a defense mechanism against getting hurt again. It has almost been a year since I broke up with my ex and living a new life but it feels like the I can't get over the pain no matter how hard I try. And I been through so many things in my life and nothing fazes me like this. Sorry to drag on but thank you for taking to read this! It is much appreciated (: If I need to make any clarifications please ask I tried to make this as short as possible and did skip many things.

[Downtown]

Tiger, the neediness, instability, cutting, threats of suicide, rapid flips between adoring and devaluing you, drama seeking, lack of impulse control, and always being "The Victim" are red flags for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).

 

She is prone to cutting and hurting herself (she has a messed up past) and she started cutting her wrists.

The APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5) lists "self-harming behavior such as cutting" for only one disorder: BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). That is, of the 157 disorders listed in DSM-5, only BPD has "cutting" listed as a defining trait. Moreover, many studies have shown that self harm like cutting is strongly associated with BPD. A 2004 hospital study, for example, found that

Self-mutilating behavior is a symptom seen in both men and women with various psychiatric disorders, but

the majority of those who self-mutilate are women with borderline personality disorder

. This complex, maladaptive behavior is used by clients as a means of self-preservation and emotion regulation, and is often associated with childhood trauma.

See

J Psychosoc Nurs Ment Health Serv. 2004

.

She took my hands and slapped herself with them and then tried to choke herslelf with an extension cord I had to stop her by pinning her to the bed.... had photos of her bleeding and with a handful of pills.

"Recurring suicidal behaviors or threats" also is listed in the DSM-5 as a defining trait for BPD. Together with "cutting," the "suicidal behavior" constitutes one of the 9 defining traits for BPD.

 

I felt she never really appreciated the effort I put in.

If she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong and persistent BPD traits), she has little ability to regulate her own emotions. The result is that she will frequently experience feelings so intense that she is convinced they MUST be true. This means that a BPDer's perception of reality, like that of a young child, is dictated by how she is feeling AT THIS VERY MOMENT. Those intense feelings wash aside the feelings she experienced several days ago, or several hours ago. It thus is impossible, with a BPDer, to build up any lasting sense of appreciation that you can draw on during the hard times.

 

There were many fights, breakups and makeups, she was a lot of drama....

BPDer relationships typically are filled with drama and are characterized by a repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back. The reason is that a BPDer has a great fear of abandonment and engulfment -- two fears which lie at opposite ends of the very same spectrum.

 

This means that, as you draw close to assure a BPDer of your love, she will soon start feeling suffocated and controlled -- and will create a fight (over absolutely nothing) to push you away. Yet, as you back off to give her breathing space, you will unavoidably start triggering her abandonment fear. She therefore will resume the love bombing to pull you back. In this way, a BPDer relationship is a push/pull cycle that feels like a roller coaster ride.

 

BPDer relationships therefore are notorious for having multiple breakups. A BPDfamily survey of about 460 such relationships found that nearly a fourth of them (23%) went through 10 or more complete breakup/makeup cycles BEFORE finally ending for good. About 40% of the BPDer relationships experienced at least six breakup/makeup cycles before ending. And 73% had three or more breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. See "Results" at BPDfamily Breakup/Makeup Poll.

 

She has a messed up past.

Are you referring to her childhood experiences? I ask because, in a recent large-scale study, 70% of the BPDers reported they had been abused or abandoned in childhood.

 

It has almost been a year since I broke up with my ex and living a new life but it feels like the I can't get over the pain no matter how hard I try. And I been through so many things in my life and nothing fazes me like this.

Tiger, if your exGF has strong BPD traits, walking away from her will be very painful. This is why most abused partners try to walk away so many times before they are able to successfully avoid returning.

 

The main reason it is so difficult to leave BPDers is that they exhibit an emotional intensity, immaturity, passion, and purity of expression that otherwise is seen only in young children. This means that, like young children, they are very easy to fall in love with and very hard to walk away from. Indeed, walking away from a BPDer can feel like you're abandoning a sick child who desperately needs you.

 

Is there something I can do to get over this feeling of being afraid to be in a relationship with another woman?

Tiger, yes, you can start reducing your fear by realizing that the behaviors you describe are not those of a normal, healthy woman. Instead, you're describing many red flags for a strong pattern of BPD behavior. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exGF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

 

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and temper tantrums.

 

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a painful situation, e.g., taking your exGF back or running into the arms of another woman just like her. Take care, Tiger.

[Sourpatchtiger]

Wow omg downtown I think you nailed it!! Everything you described and I read all fit perfectly! I'd say she is on the high end of BPD but she did get better like not cutting herself but I don't know if that will last forever with her or not.

 

Her parents were very strict growing up and her father killed himself when she was young and supposedly had another family or something like that. I come from a good but bad childhood.

 

This explains how many times we would be on the verge of breaking up and at the last second she will grab me and beg me to stay. I have been grappling with this for so long and you have helped me tremendously. Thank you so much for the explanation! I'm the type of person that always has to figure things out and this helps make sense of a lot of things I just couldn't understand!

[Downtown]

She did get better like not cutting herself but I don't know if that will last forever with her or not.

Tiger, BPDers don't cut themselves to feel pain. On the contrary, they do it to reduce pain. They experience so much internal pain -- from their self loathing and fear of abandonment -- they are able to reduce it somewhat by externalizing it, moving it to the surface of their bodies. Another benefit of the cutting is that, when a BPDer is starting to feel numb and removed from her own body, cutting will bring her back and make her feel alive again.

 

It was absolutely scarring and I just can't seem to get over it.

Tiger, if you only feel "scarred" from the toxic relationship, consider yourself lucky. A large share of the abused partners walking away from BPDer relationships feel like they may be going crazy. Of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. Therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning.

 

We just couldn't communicate properly.

Most likely, you often had the feeling you were walking on eggshells around her -- never knowing what minor comment would trigger her mood change. This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book (targeted to the abused partners) is titled Stop Walking on Eggshells.

 

This explains how many times we would be on the verge of breaking up and at the last second she will grab me and beg me to stay.

BPDers absolutely HATE to be alone because they lack a strong sense of self identity to provide direction. Moreover, they have a strong need to perceive of their partners as the cause of all their unhappiness -- in order to "validate" their false self image of always being "The Victim." They therefore want to devalue you but don't want you to leave them. This is why the #2 best-selling BPD book is titled I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!

 

I'm the type of person that always has to figure things out and this helps make sense of a lot of things I just couldn't understand!

In that case, Tiger, I suggest you read two articles on this issue written by professionals. One is Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with BPD and the other is Leaving a Partner with BPD. Here at LoveShack, I recommend Salparadise's post. Sal describes what it's like to live with a BPDer wife for 23 years.

[spiderowl]

I'm sorry you are still suffering Tiger. Sometimes the most dramatic of relationships are the hardest to get over. I'm not sure why, but the highs tend to be very high and lows very low. You did the right thing by ending it. It was never going to be the secure relationship you wanted. Long distance makes it all the more difficult too. I can sort of understand someone wanting attention from others if they are feeling lonely. She must have felt lonely when you were not there, as you would have felt lonely for her. Unfortunately, she took it further than you and got involved with others.

 

It obviously came very close to what you would have wanted which is why it seems so hard to get over her. It is best not to stay in contact if want any chance of recovery. As you have found, it all comes flooding back and then you are back to square one.

 

You are doing the right thing by not taking other relationships further until you feel you are ready to do so. It would not be fair on another girl if your heart wasn't in it. If you think you are doing this for fear of being hurt (which is different from still being attached to your ex), then maybe going to counselling would help you to work through this and resolve these feelings somehow. I hope things get better for you soon and you can start to enjoy getting to know someone new.

[Sourpatchtiger]

I have been diligently researching this and confirmed it with what happened in my relationship. I did get my ex to go to therapy and she did change quite a few bad habits I did not expect her to. I am glad I made the right decision for the both of us in the end. I have to say my perception of how a relationship is pretty ****ed up to begin with but now I am just starting to understand how terrible things got. It does make me feel better to understand the craziness, manipulation, mood swings, nonsensical decisions, always felt like she had one foot out the door. I still can't believe how asking this question (almost didn't) has helped me out so tremendously! My mood has already gotten so much better and a weight has been lifted.

[Downtown]

I did get my ex to go to therapy and she did change quite a few bad habits I did not expect her to.

Tiger, how do you know your ex-finace has changed "quite a few bad habits"? Five days ago you said that you two had broken up a year ago and she has been dating a new guy. If she really does exhibit strong and persistent BPD traits as you believe, it likely will take several years of intensive therapy before you would see any lasting, substantial improvement in her behavior.

 

After five days and one therapy visit, you cannot know she will improve at all. The vast majority of BPDers don't have the self awareness to know they need therapy. Even when they do -- as might be the case with your Ex -- they are not home free. They also must have the ego strength to be willing to work very hard in the treatment program. Otherwise they will just play mind games with the therapist. I would be surprised if as much as 1% of high functioning BPDers have both the self awareness and ego strength to remain in therapy long enough -- several years at least -- to make a real change in their behavior.

 

I spent a small fortune taking my BPDer exW to weekly visits with six different psychologists (and 3 MCs) for 15 years -- all to no avail. I'm not talking about one therapy session but, rather, hundreds of therapy sessions. It did not make even a dent in her BPD traits. Not one dent. On the contrary, her behavior eventually got much worse. As the years went by, her fear of abandonment got worse as she saw her body aging. Moreover, her resentment of me grew larger due to my failure to make her happy (an impossible task). Although she had an awareness that she had some sort of problem, she was unwilling to do the hard work necessary to retrain her mind.

 

I therefore encourage you not to go down the path I took. You will find that it is very difficult to determine whether a BPDer is making any real improvements. In the same way that many smokers are always "quitting" every month and throwing away their "last pack," a BPDer typically exhibits dramatic improvements in her behavior every few weeks. Instead of seeing real progress, however, what you typically are seeing is the upside of another hill in the unending roller coaster ride. Remember, even a roller coaster moves upward half the time.

[Sourpatchtiger]

Let me clarify because we have had several breakups but I meant when I found out she was cheating (and also showing signs of being abusive to those guys) I broke up with her around that time (Sept/Oct 2016) and we went to Philippines together and spend a few weeks going to therapy and what I notice now that the therapist and I could only see pieces of what was going on. This time and after I noticed she changed in the sense that she was more loving and caring, which was not enough with her inability to communicate effectively and her other BPD tendencies. I simply meant I saw a difference even though in the end it didn't help as much but she also stopped with the suicide threats and physical harm. I have no interest at this point of rekindling anything. I guess I was so so crushed with how everything turned out even though I still love her I don't want to be with her. Right now the progress she made is a bit confusing because she was putting in the effort and then it felt like one day she stopped trying and stopped going to therapy. It is just hard to believe all this was a game she played. She must have the high score. At this time self healing is my #1 goal.

[Sourpatchtiger]

Also I broke up with her around April/May 2016 (it was like a process cuz her family was messaging me to confirm because she just cried and didn't say why so people were freaking out.

 

 

I meant Sept/Oct 2015 not 2016. That was when I came across her emails exposing her indiscretions.

[Downtown]

She was putting in the effort and then it felt like one day she stopped trying and stopped going to therapy.

Tiger, if she is a high functioning BPDer, that outcome is to be expected. Although there are excellent treatment programs (e.g., DBT and CBT) in most major cities, it is rare for a BPDer to remain in therapy long enough to make a real difference.

 

It is just hard to believe all this was a game she played.

When I said that BPDers generally only "play games" with the therapist, I meant that they typically won't work in a productive way with the therapist. It isn't that they want to be playful but, rather, that they cannot trust the therapist. BPDers generally are unable to trust anyone who becomes very close to them, largely due to their great fears of abandonment and engulfment. Because the therapist cannot avoid triggering those two fears, the BPDer will experience intense feelings that distort her perception of your relationship. She thus will be telling the therapist false information which she is convinced must be true.

 

At this time self healing is my #1 goal.

Excellent. As it should be!

[Sourpatchtiger]

I don't know if she was really high functioning because she did admit she had serious issues and I thought she was Bipolar but she had characteristics of passive aggressiveness among other things.

 

Ahh I understand now. I was actually worried about this and it was in the back of my mind. She really did make me feel crazy like I didn't know what to believe and it was even messing with my perception of things in our relationship. Looking back it seems like I was living a very dramatic tv show until I discontinued that ****.

 

Yes it is the first time in a longtime I feel this happy!:DDD All about me now. It felt like the relationship was me giving and her taking pretty much all the time and not really putting in as much as I needed her too. At least this experience is helping me understand just what I want and what I won't accept in future relationships