Where should we be by now?

[Birdies]

1. If your kid needed medical attention to save their life and your husband or church said don't do it, let's pray, what would you do? Hopefully, you'd say "screw that" and get the help. Well, in this case, your marriage is your kid. It's dying. What are you going to do.

 

2. You need counseling. He says "no, I don't like it and it hurts me". Well, screwing some dude and lying to your husband was something that you had no problem doing and that was bad. You get counseling from a qualified counselor and that is gonna help. His solution is not a solution. Get you a counselor ASAP. IC and MC. he can come or not.

 

3. He is drinking and not facing reality. Well, reality is happening. You would not let him drive in his condition. You would not let him drive you or your kids in that condition. Well, why let him drive how things move now?

 

4. Working towards the healing that you all need is not something that he is capable of doing. He's totally screwed up right now. He's a drowning man and you pushed him. Time to put on your big girl pants, and steer this shipwreck back to shore. It may not make it, but right now, it is never going to make it.

 

^^^ Repeated for good measure.

 

SS, I just don't see how you two can make it just muddling through on your own, him hurt and pissed off and drunk, and you guilty and hurting and numb, and neither of you doing enough to dig deep in yourselves and with each other to get through this together.

 

It's sad to me that you'd let church doctrine prevent you from doing the necessary steps to heal yourself, your husband, your children, and your marriage. Frankly I think the whole of human history indicates pretty clearly that the standard church method of dealing with things, i.e. ignore the bad difficult things and present a facade of functionality, doesn't work. Look at every church scandal on the planet. Look at all these good "Christian" families where the man is secretly an abusive jerk and everyone is miserable.

 

Which would you rather do, pretend everything is ok or actually do the work to MAKE it ok?

Edited March 15, 2017 by Birdies

[Owl6118]

Southern, I have followed this thread quietly after my first post rapping your knuckles about the victim thing. You added a lot in later posts that better flesh out the whole situation.

 

I like the kind advice you give to others here. I have been wracking my brains for a way to return the favor with some kind of advice for you but I am at a loss.

 

As a sober alcoholic I take the drinking issue very seriously. Very seriously indeed. The ordinary advice I would give would be for you to have your own boundaries. To communicate that while you can't control his choices, you won't enable his behaviors with alcohol when they have negative impacts on you and the kids. Up to and including attending alanon to help you, getting therapy to help you. Up to and including separation if it comes to that.

 

I also get why, after the affair, this default advice would be extremely hard to implement.

 

And as someone who has suffered major depression, and benefitted enormously from treatment (in my case therapy was more helpful than medication) my default advice to you to deal with your other issues would be IC. I beleive you said you felt the IC you did get helped you until you stopped.

 

But you also say IC is mistrusted by both your husband and your faith community. I get the sense the same is true for AlAnon for you or AA for him. So the faith community opposes these tools. And the suggestion to work with your BS's boundaries to make him feel safer sees to close off these tools right now.

 

I literally do not know what to tell you. Except maybe I do. I would say this -- you need to save you before you can save him or your marriage or anything else. If YOU think YOU benefitted from therapy, or would benefit from a group like AlAnon, and you think the support and counsel offered within your faith community is not on its own objectively enough to help you,, I would choose to grasp that lifeline.

 

You cannot save your marriage while losing yourself to depression and hopelessness. Seek out help in the form that generates real, objective positive results for you. And let the chips fall where they may. It may lead to a temporary alienation from the faith. It may lead to a temporary or permanent separation if your husband makes you not getting treatment to supplement what the faith offers a deal breaker. But you need help, and those are honestly the places and tools I think would be best suited to help you.

 

I know you are on the horns of many dilemmas. I understand you are pressed in confIcting directions. But looking on from the outside, that is the truest thing I can think of to say to you.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Owl6118

[Quiet Storms]

SS, I am worried for you. Not trying to be negative here, but you are in a worse place than you were just after telling your BH.

 

I feel that you are clinically depressed, and that is one HUGE weight that is crushing you and preventing you from taking some actions that perhaps you should be taking. You have always taken responsibility for your choice to have an affair (IMO), but that doesn't change the fact that your AP was a narcissistic, manipulative a**. He changed you. He caused you to lose yourself. You are a naturally strong person, but he stole that from you. You haven't found it back, and part of that is because of the depression. The other part, I believe, is because you aren't sure that you want the relationship with your BS if it's going to be this way forever, and you don't know what to do about it. And because of the depression you aren't motivated to do something about it, even if you knew what that is.

 

You aren't taking care of yourself, SS, and I worry about you.

 

Truth is, you can't fix all of this. It takes two. He has to address his alcohol issues. You didn't "make" him drink - that is his choice. Only he can fix it.

 

As far as the church, it doesn't sound like you, frankly, and it doesn't sound like it's helping you much. I would say that for now you should forget about the church, forget about what your friends and parents want, and forget about fixing the sex or lack thereof with your husband. That needs to improve, but first you have to fix yourself. Start with treating your depression. One step at a time.

 

I wish I could help you as much as you have helped... other people.

 

As for posting here, I echo the sentiment you stated that some people view things from their own experiences. And some people are excessively hard on you, either by stating things that they can't possibly know, or by suggesting that there is something wrong with you because you aren't 100 percent vested in reconciling a marriage that doesn't look so good to you right now. I think you know what I mean.

 

As always, take care SS. Believe in you. I do.

[deadsoul]

Depression is an ugly beast... and it seems both you and BH are dealing with it in different ways. I'm really starting to look close at all of my negative thinking patterns and how I can't control my feelings, but I CAN control the cognitive thoughts that cause those feelings. And I'm really seeing how much I put myself down and how little I think of myself.

 

You've given me some great advice. You have it in you to heal. I believe in you and whatever needs to happen to put your family back together again, I know you can do it.

 

I do think that any organization that frowns upon counseling might not be the best organization to listen to. I say this gently, as I don't want to offend, but do consider the counseling, even if it means stepping outside your family's beliefs.

 

Take care, friend.

[Southern Sun]

I feel like you just cracked open my brain...my heart...and looked inside. See below:

 

SS, I am worried for you. Not trying to be negative here, but you are in a worse place than you were just after telling your BH.

 

I feel that you are clinically depressed, and that is one HUGE weight that is crushing you and preventing you from taking some actions that perhaps you should be taking. You have always taken responsibility for your choice to have an affair (IMO), but that doesn't change the fact that your AP was a narcissistic, manipulative a**. He changed you. He caused you to lose yourself. You are a naturally strong person, but he stole that from you. You haven't found it back, and part of that is because of the depression. The other part, I believe, is because you aren't sure that you want the relationship with your BS if it's going to be this way forever, and you don't know what to do about it. And because of the depression you aren't motivated to do something about it, even if you knew what that is.

 

Yes, yes, and yes. I am a different person than I used to be. The relationship sucked the life right out of me, I'm afraid. Left me emotionally drained, battered, and confused, with little left to give to anything or anyone else. The last things I was clinging to that I felt might give me a sense of self back were taken away, as a result of my going back to the affair, confessing, and the church's direction as to what I should/should not be doing. I know going back to the affair was hideous, but it was a ridiculous loop of pressure: I was alone and depressed with work as an option taken away and all I had was myself and my thoughts all day long. And then my angry husband. Eventually I turned back to the only outlet I had. Terrible logic, but that was my only perceived "escape" at the time. Which of course just broke me down further and made everything worse for my BS.

 

You aren't taking care of yourself, SS, and I worry about you.

 

Truth is, you can't fix all of this. It takes two. He has to address his alcohol issues. You didn't "make" him drink - that is his choice. Only he can fix it.

 

As far as the church, it doesn't sound like you, frankly, and it doesn't sound like it's helping you much. I would say that for now you should forget about the church, forget about what your friends and parents want, and forget about fixing the sex or lack thereof with your husband. That needs to improve, but first you have to fix yourself. Start with treating your depression. One step at a time.

 

You're right about the church. I think I've been trying to fit a square peg into a round hole for a long time. My H is loyal to them for reasons OTHER than God, oddly. Truth is, I don't know what I believe anymore. About the depression...I did go to a doctor after the 2nd D-Day and he prescribed me something. It hasn't helped much so he increased my dosage. I have not taken the increased dose, but as of yesterday, I decided to. I also found an IC that I can see through video conferencing. I have to start somewhere.

 

I wish I could help you as much as you have helped... other people.

 

You are helping me, right now.

 

As for posting here, I echo the sentiment you stated that some people view things from their own experiences. And some people are excessively hard on you, either by stating things that they can't possibly know, or by suggesting that there is something wrong with you because you aren't 100 percent vested in reconciling a marriage that doesn't look so good to you right now. I think you know what I mean.

 

As always, take care SS. Believe in you. I do.

 

Thank you.

[Southern Sun]

I literally do not know what to tell you. Except maybe I do. I would say this -- you need to save you before you can save him or your marriage or anything else. If YOU think YOU benefitted from therapy, or would benefit from a group like AlAnon, and you think the support and counsel offered within your faith community is not on its own objectively enough to help you,, I would choose to grasp that lifeline.

 

You cannot save your marriage while losing yourself to depression and hopelessness. Seek out help in the form that generates real, objective positive results for you. And let the chips fall where they may. It may lead to a temporary alienation from the faith. It may lead to a temporary or permanent separation if your husband makes you not getting treatment to supplement what the faith offers a deal breaker. But you need help, and those are honestly the places and tools I think would be best suited to help you.

 

I know you are on the horns of many dilemmas. I understand you are pressed in confIcting directions. But looking on from the outside, that is the truest thing I can think of to say to you.

 

Thank you, Owl. I sincerely appreciate this. I am trying to pull myself up and out. Alanon may be a good way to go. I just posted about increasing my med and, "damn the torpedos", getting some IC. I need help. I do hope my husband can find his way too.

[Southern Sun]

Depression is an ugly beast... and it seems both you and BH are dealing with it in different ways. I'm really starting to look close at all of my negative thinking patterns and how I can't control my feelings, but I CAN control the cognitive thoughts that cause those feelings. And I'm really seeing how much I put myself down and how little I think of myself.

 

You've given me some great advice. You have it in you to heal. I believe in you and whatever needs to happen to put your family back together again, I know you can do it.

 

I do think that any organization that frowns upon counseling might not be the best organization to listen to. I say this gently, as I don't want to offend, but do consider the counseling, even if it means stepping outside your family's beliefs.

 

Take care, friend.

 

You aren't offending. I am open to thoughts at this point.

 

I want my family healthy and happy, whatever form it takes. I can also say that I want my husband happy...and guess what: I want to feel that happiness too.

 

Thank you for your words.

[understand50]

Southern Sun,

 

From your last post, I see your hope for better times. I did want to remind you that in the normal ebb and flow of a marriage, there are both good and bad times. Add infidelity, and everything becomes magnified. Point is, that you may be in a natural ebb, and then had added your cheating. I think that for you, the best way forward, is doing thing designed to reconnect and reestablish with your husband. Even if you are not really feeling it.

 

I have fallen in and out of love with my wife, more times then I can count, but I know on the times I am not feeling it, that I need to work and refine why I married her in the first place.

 

So....

 

Dress nicely, make an effort to look attractive.

 

Try and suggest things to do. Make them "intimate" meaning things that are just you and him. Sex may follow or not, but do not use that as the yard stick of if the "Date" was a success. Long walks, going for a cup of coffee, going to a movie, show, use your imagination. Here are some ideas.

 

18 At-Home Date Ideas | The Art of Manliness

 

I would also suggest the website "the Artofmanliness" it is written from a mans point of view, but there is many good ideas on DIY marriage counseling, and you never know where the next good idea comes from. If got me thinking, while I do not agree with somethings, it is well worth reading.

 

Free Marriage Counseling: How to Do it Yourself | The Art of Manliness

 

You are going to have to be the one to do and try. This site can help, and be ONE of the many sources of information you may need.

 

Getting back to my first thought. No matter how, you need to look at ways to reconnect. Because you are not "connected" now, trying to reconcile, is not working as the "base" is not there. This makes it much harder, then what Deadsoul is doing now, or what Mr & Mrs Adams did, or myself and my wife or many others. Not that what we all did, or are doing, is not hard enough. With out a connection, how can you reconcile? The fact that he is in the marriage and staying is a good sign, I think before you work on the "whys" and "what" of your infidelity, you need to do this. The only way to do this is to try as many things as possible, until something works, and read and learn about how and why. Being relentless and staying the course, is what will bring you and him though all this. Keep up the hope.

 

As Always, I wish you luck......

[merrmeade]

Just wanted to say, you're courageous to choose an action that's been discouraged by your faith community. Please remember that you really have done nothing wrong in choosing to seek help with so much personal crisis, and it doesn't mean you are turning your back on your faith. At some point, you'll probably want to sort out what it does mean for you in terms of how you see and interact with your community in future, but I hope it can be later. You have some critical, urgent issues to tend to first. You could bring it up in IC perhaps because a good psychologist won't try to change your world view but will work with it.

[understand50]

Ummm, no. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. They know about it and my consequences have been dealt. It completely changed how I live my life. I feel it is TMI to say on this forum.

 

Southern Sun,

 

In this we agree completely. As I put on Deadsouls thread, sometime when we give too much we risk becoming a soap opera. Only give out information you are comfortable with, and only to help you. If you do not "get" as much as to "Give" you should think about if LS is helping you. Remember, you and your situation are not entertainment, but a discussion on helping you navigate through a very stressful situation. Also, remember, you are the giver of facts, and as such, poster will accept them or not, but it does not change those facts to you.

 

I wish you luck.

[Quiet Storms]

I feel like you just cracked open my brain...my heart...and looked inside. Thank you.

 

I'm glad if I could help a little bit.

 

I am happy to hear you are going back on the antidepressants. Keep in mind that it's a crapshoot - anyone's guess - which antidepressant is going to work in which patient. So, if the increased dose doesn't do anything, then keep at it and get your doctor to try something else. It does really help when you get it worked out, I promise you.

 

Your career/school (basically your entire independent life) was tied into this AP and affair. Where is all that now? Is that adding to things? Because I am sure that loss is making you feel even more like you have lost yourself. You don't have to answer my questions if you don't want of course.

 

I'm really sorry you're going through this.

[Jersey born raised]

Hi Sun,

 

You need to accept you on a journey, one that need you need to result in a better, stronger you. Accept that it may result in you divorcing. I don't say divorcing lightly. The person who emerges from your journey will be a very different person. Can your husband grow with you or will the person he becomes be unacceptable to you? Two of your threads haunt me.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/sexual-reproductive-health-practices/559994-my-dad-let-me-see-his-playboys. Then a latter thread

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/597018-being-called-mm-s-toy

 

I wonder if the "great sex" with MOM was mostly in your mind that was influenced by the childhood exposure to adult magainze. That you felt "glamorized" by MOM attention. That you let your inner bad girl out, a taboo broken?

 

This is a question for an IC, not discussion here. Again not for discussion here. Just a suggestion to purse with an IC. You might find you need to be able to explore this side of you within an intimate relationship, enclosed within a marriage. If so can your husband be that man?

 

To be clear, the adultery is on you. Not sharing this part of you (if it exists) is on you and you set your husband up to fall.

 

Be well

[Just a Guy]

Hi Southern, I have read most of your thread and I am sorry to see that you are in such an unhappy situation. I guess all of us, at some point in our lives are faced with a situation where we have two distinct possible choices in front of us. Call it the'Fork in the road' syndrome. If one chooses one path it leads on to happiness and success in one's personal and professional life. However, at that particular point in time it seems humdrum and unexciting and does not really look like an attractive option. The other path leads to sorrow, pain and a complete dead end from which recovery seems extremely difficult if not impossible. However, at that particular moment it seems exciting, attractive and very enticing while completely hiding the pitfalls that lie ahead. Deep down within ourselves we know that it is s path to nowhere but the immediate possibility of gratification and excitement are just too much for us to resist and we fall prey to our shallow need for scratching that itch rather than paying attention to our deeper and wiser counsel. Of course there is a tangle of many other factors which are roiling under the surface of our conscious mind and which sometimes propel us to make such unwise choices.

 

I think in your case there were some bottled up feelings of frustration with your husband and the state of your marriage and vice versa which, whether the two of you acknowledged or not, was present under the surface and creating a pressure which needed release. In your case you succumbed to an affair and now, with the exposure of your affair, your husband is responding to that same pressure brought on both by your affair and his bottled up frustration by going on a drinking binge. His drinking may also be a way in which he is seeking to punish and hurt you the way you hurt him. Another man may have had a revenge affair/s with the same aim in mind. Whatever the reasoning, the end result is that both of you are in great pain and suffering immensely. Most folks on here have suggested both IC for the two of you followed by MC. I agree with that line of thinking. Also, I noted that you seem to be in the throes of a deep depression and a complete lack of self esteem. You should be seeing a psychiatrist for this problem and in addition I would recommend that you read the book 'Psycho-cybetnetics' by Dr. Maxwell Maltz. You may get it at your local library or you can order it on Amazon. It is a book which, if you follow the exercises laid out in it sincerely, will help to change you in a fundamental way, unleashing your hidden talents and giving you a boost of confidence you never thought you could ever have. Try it, it may be just what the doctor ordered and may be lifesaving for you. Warm wishes.

[Southern Sun]

Hi Southern, I have read most of your thread and I am sorry to see that you are in such an unhappy situation. I guess all of us, at some point in our lives are faced with a situation where we have two distinct possible choices in front of us. Call it the'Fork in the road' syndrome. If one chooses one path it leads on to happiness and success in one's personal and professional life. However, at that particular point in time it seems humdrum and unexciting and does not really look like an attractive option. The other path leads to sorrow, pain and a complete dead end from which recovery seems extremely difficult if not impossible. However, at that particular moment it seems exciting, attractive and very enticing while completely hiding the pitfalls that lie ahead. Deep down within ourselves we know that it is s path to nowhere but the immediate possibility of gratification and excitement are just too much for us to resist and we fall prey to our shallow need for scratching that itch rather than paying attention to our deeper and wiser counsel. Of course there is a tangle of many other factors which are roiling under the surface of our conscious mind and which sometimes propel us to make such unwise choices.

 

I think in your case there were some bottled up feelings of frustration with your husband and the state of your marriage and vice versa which, whether the two of you acknowledged or not, was present under the surface and creating a pressure which needed release. In your case you succumbed to an affair and now, with the exposure of your affair, your husband is responding to that same pressure brought on both by your affair and his bottled up frustration by going on a drinking binge. His drinking may also be a way in which he is seeking to punish and hurt you the way you hurt him. Another man may have had a revenge affair/s with the same aim in mind. Whatever the reasoning, the end result is that both of you are in great pain and suffering immensely. Most folks on here have suggested both IC for the two of you followed by MC. I agree with that line of thinking. Also, I noted that you seem to be in the throes of a deep depression and a complete lack of self esteem. You should be seeing a psychiatrist for this problem and in addition I would recommend that you read the book 'Psycho-cybetnetics' by Dr. Maxwell Maltz. You may get it at your local library or you can order it on Amazon. It is a book which, if you follow the exercises laid out in it sincerely, will help to change you in a fundamental way, unleashing your hidden talents and giving you a boost of confidence you never thought you could ever have. Try it, it may be just what the doctor ordered and may be lifesaving for you. Warm wishes.

 

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

 

I sure as heck wish I had chosen better.

 

Both my H and I have been doing much better since the start of this thread. He has been moderating his drinking, apparently on purpose. Some things have happened on my end that have helped with my depression as well. As well, I've gotten into an IC.

 

I am interested in your book recommendation. I will check it out.

[Owl6118]

Both my H and I have been doing much better since the start of this thread. He has been moderating his drinking, apparently on purpose. Some things have happened on my end that have helped with my depression as well. As well, I've gotten into an IC.

 

I am so happy to hear all these things. Good for you for reaching out for support during this rough down swing, and for persevering through it. Wishing you and husband well on your journey.

[Aliceislost]

I'm late to this discussion. But after a 2nd DDay? Especially if the affair continued sexually after 1st DDay? Was it sexual the 2nd time?

 

I can see where his head is at. Even though he is harming himself by the habit but I can relate. After the 2nd DDay and husband leaving, I just don't remember what happened for the next 3 months. I was that drunk for that period.

 

He needs a lot of help. I'm glad I had support in my life who forced me into rehab and then AA.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Alice, I am sorry for what you have had to face. Infidelity can be truly soul killing. However, I think that resorting to something as harmful as binge drinking is equally tragic and harmful. Succumbing to an escape mechanism like binge drinking is like having a death wish and I think nothing that another human being can do to hurt us merits punishing ourselves in that way.

 

In any case I hope you are well on the way to recovery in every way, from the effects of infidelity and from your addiction to alcohol. I have'nt read your story assuming you have even posted it on this forum but from what little you have shared here I would think you should change your moniker from Aliceislost to Aliceisfound! Smile. Warm wishes.

PS. Southern, sorry for the thread jack but I did think I should respond to Alice's post as she came across as someone who is also very hurt and in need of some comforting thoughts. Warm wishes to you as well.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Just a Guy

[JustJoe]

op,

I can't sugarcoat it. It's going to take a long time for hm to come to terms with what has happened. It sounds to me like there is a lot going on in your situation.

 

- it sounds like he is not willing to accept that you had two affairs so he drinks so he can avoid it

 

- he's deeply hurt and deeply angry, probably far more than he wants to be. Again, if he drinks, can avoid facing this

 

-he doesn't trust you, again, out comes the alcohol

 

he's self medicating,and I suspect that's because it's easier to avoid his pain and anger that work through them.

 

I can understand his behavior, but it's not healthy and can even be dangerous. Is there any way that you could invite a family member or friend over whom you trust, or your priest/pastor ( and who knows what happened) and have them act as a neutral third party while you talk to your husband about your concerns and give him a chance to express his feelings as well?

For some bs, they feel stuck because they can't express their feelings. For them, writing them out can be helpful. Ask your husband to write a journal of his feelings for you to read, or write you a letter about them, etc. Sometimes, that can be really helpful.

 

About his seeming to be stuck, while I understand how that could be frustrating and worrying for you, think of it as a form of survival for him. He found out you had two affairs, and he's , if if he's not conscious that he's doing so, protecting himself. A the saying goes, once bitten, twice shy, and it may tale a long time for him to feel safe with you again.

 

I'm sorry, but that's how it goes. Mind you, if he ever lays a hand on you in anger, if he starts insulting you in front of your kids or if you are afraid, then don't stay. If it reaches that point, you are better off apart.

Sorry wrong post Edited April 1, 2017 by JustJoe

[Ms.Leo]

I haven't read through all the posts, except the first 3 pages about your husband's drinking. I was curious if there are any hobbies that your husband enjoy? Fishing, golfing, hunting etc. Instead of him turning to alcohol to try and numb his pain, maybe you can retrace the things that made you both happy in the beginning of the R and work on doing these things together? What did you guys do together that made you both happy? Maybe you can try to recreate that memory and spark again?

 

Also, it sounds like you may be suffering from depression as well. I'm guessing maybe your husband see's this and it might be viewed differently in his head? Your husband is feeling a ton of pain and resentment which is probably making you feel guilty, ashamed and sad. He might see your sadness and think you're reminiscing about the OM? I might be wrong. It just feels that his moods and your moods are rubbing off on each other. If you are suffering from depression, maybe seeking help should be your top priority so that you are strong enough mentally to help him through his drinking.