He proposed and I said no! Did I make a mistake?Update: I think we're really over now

[devilish innocent]

I wouldn't be so sure that things will work out for him and the other girl. The last time they dated, they were teenagers. There is a big difference between what a person needs for a high school relationship versus what they need for an adult relationship. Besides, things must not have worked out that well for them the first time if they ended up splitting apart.

 

It's a somewhat unfortunate situation because any other woman he dates will have the same issue you did. His other ex is going to be a part of his family. Unless he would be willing to see a lot less of his family, it would take a rare type of woman who would feel alright with the situation.

 

You at least have the fortune to move on from this whole mess. Breaking up when you had what you had with him is never easy. In time, though, it will get better. You will have plenty of opportunity to love again.

[Grathblagg]

.

.

.

 

 

Yeah I realise that now..

 

The whole thing really is a tragedy. I feel for you. Relationships are sooooooo hard to understand sometimes. They're so complex.

 

My point was, to everyone else, since you've been quite moderate in your tone, that making someone bad so that the other person can be called "good" or "right", isn't very productive sometimes. People lose track of the lessons they could learn for the future, if one side of the equation is blamed for everything.

[Grathblagg]

Mackie, please don't feel that you have to justify yourself to anyone on this board, because you don't.

 

You made the right decision for you.

 

Take care.

 

Some call it justification. Others call it communication, education, reflection, and coming to an understanding.

 

Some people say, "You don't need to talk to those people!". Others say, "I may have something to learn from them, and them from me".

 

Everyone has a right to lock themselves up in an echo chamber and shake their fist in righteousness at fate, but I personally prefer being questioned about my decision making process. That's just me though, because I'm not perfect.

 

In fact, I've learned many things from this thread, one being the dynamic of self-righteous group think, it's contribution to victimhood, and the potential hazard it poses to self-reflection and personal growth.

 

The other thing that I've experienced is an uplifting resistance to that type of group think, Mackie (and others) for example, when she persists in taking a moderate and reflective tone with regards to a heartbreak that many have instead chosen to embrace as some sort of victimhood-based badge of honor.

 

I cannot help but come to the conclusion that Mackie is behaving in more of an enlightened manner here than many of the people here that she came to seeking enlightenment.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Grathblagg

[JuneL]

I wouldn't be so sure that things will work out for him and the other girl. The last time they dated, they were teenagers. There is a big difference between what a person needs for a high school relationship versus what they need for an adult relationship. Besides, things must not have worked out that well for them the first time if they ended up splitting apart.

 

It's a somewhat unfortunate situation because any other woman he dates will have the same issue you did. His other ex is going to be a part of his family. Unless he would be willing to see a lot less of his family, it would take a rare type of woman who would feel alright with the situation.

 

You at least have the fortune to move on from this whole mess. Breaking up when you had what you had with him is never easy. In time, though, it will get better. You will have plenty of opportunity to love again.

 

I also got the impression that the ex may not love Dane nearly as much as Dane loves her; she probably couldn't bear "losing" Dane to another woman for good. Of course, that's not your business now. OP: Did the ex ever have a boyfriend during those 4 years you were together?

 

If the posters in this thread are any indication, it's not unlikely that Dane's next girlfriend will have the same issue (assuming things don't work out with the ex).

[ExpatInItaly]

I would not have married this guy either, OP. For a number of reasons. He sounds naive and emotionally immature, if I may be blunt. Two proposals at 18 and 22?

 

I'm sorry, but what woman is going to be okay with their boyfriend's ex living with the family? Has she not dated anyone who thought it was odd she lives with her ex-boyfriend's family?

 

I get there were extenuating circumstances, but I just don't think it's a sustainable situation anymore. Frankly, I'm more than a little surprised that your ex and his family don't understand why this living arrangement was uncomfortable for you. It sounds like you made an awful lot of concessions here.

 

I mean, really - this is just too close for comfort. And clearly, you knew that he wasn't ready to let her go either. It just took a while for him to admit it. She can't live there forever; sooner or later she will want independence too. And then what? My gut says your ex will be heartbroken and won't know what to do with himself.

 

My opinion? This boy might be a lovely guy, but he needs to remove his head from his backside. The situation with the ex just isn't realistic in terms of expecting a girlfriend to be fine with it.

[JuneL]

The whole thing really is a tragedy. I feel for you. Relationships are sooooooo hard to understand sometimes. They're so complex.

 

My point was, to everyone else, since you've been quite moderate in your tone, that making someone bad so that the other person can be called "good" or "right", isn't very productive sometimes. People lose track of the lessons they could learn for the future, if one side of the equation is blamed for everything.

 

He's not a bad guy, at all. In fact, he's "too nice" and has serious issues setting healthy boundaries.

[anika99]

The presumption that love is black and white is disturbing. I lost my first fiancee to a tragic event. The love that I still feel for her is incredible. I also love my wife with all of my heart. Since I am not a neanderthal, and neither is my wife, we understand that humans love in as many ways as there are colors in the spectrum. Fate weaves and mends the tapestry of life, and she uses many colors in her beautiful work. If my former fiancee suddenly appeared back from the dead, I'd still love my wife and stay with her for the rest of my life, with no greater joy to be found. Nonetheless, I am capable of loving both, being faithful and joyous in my relationship with my wife, and putting her first above all others... forever.

 

I see. And if your fiancé rose from the dead, moved in with your family, announced she was still in love with you and then you two became besties who hung out together everyday while you told your wife that your risen from the dead ex was still your greatest love, would your wife still be so understanding?

And if your wife expressed some concern or insecurity over your daily contact with your risen from the dead ex would you take steps to stop or limit contact with your ex so that your wife and your marriage would remain secure? I'm guessing you would since you say you put your wife above all others.

 

It's easy for your wife to know you still have love for your ex fiancé and not feel threatened by that because your ex is dead. Again, the issue isn't that the OP bf had a great love before her, it's that he is still in love with his ex while maintaining an close friendship with her. You say well if he wanted his ex he could have had her anytime and he would have proposed to his ex not the OP. Ummm...he did propose to his ex and she rejected him. There is no indication that he could have her whenever he wanted. She didn't want him until she recently learned that he was going to propose to the OP.

 

Furthermore he gave the OP no indication that he was willing to end or limit this close relationship with the greatest love of his life for the sake of being considerate of the OPs feelings or in the spirit of leaving the past behind and creating a future with his current gf. Not only did he not make any concessions he also became rather angry and defensive of this great friendship with his great love when the OP tried to express her feelings about it.

 

So how about you go find an exgf that still loves you and whom you still love, bring her into your family, become best friends with her and see her everyday, tell your wife that this ex has always been the greatest love of your life and if your wife tells you the situation is making her uncomfortable, yell at her and shut her down. Let us know how that works out for you.

 

And I'm not saying the OPs ex bf is a bad guy or a villain. The OP accepted this situation for 4yrs and therefore bears some responsibility but she is also very young and maybe didn't know how to speak up about her feelings or assert herself. She knew in her gut that there were unresolved feelings between her ex and his ex and the conversations she has had with them have proven her gut feelings correct. She did what felt right for her which was very wise.

[Timshel]

I agree with above poster and others who are pointing out that the unresolved relationship with the ex would have led the majority of women to the same conclusion that you have come to Mackie. I am sorry that you are hurting and agree, you have made the best decision and not only for yourself.

 

Thank you Redhead for the beautiful, honest post regarding losing a life partner and the ability to move forward.

[JuneL]

This is such a great post. OP: I went back to read your earlier threads. There were things which they had done in the past that were highly inappropriate and extremely insensitive to you.

 

I see. And if your fiancé rose from the dead, moved in with your family, announced she was still in love with you and then you two became besties who hung out together everyday while you told your wife that your risen from the dead ex was still your greatest love, would your wife still be so understanding?

And if your wife expressed some concern or insecurity over your daily contact with your risen from the dead ex would you take steps to stop or limit contact with your ex so that your wife and your marriage would remain secure? I'm guessing you would since you say you put your wife above all others.

 

It's easy for your wife to know you still have love for your ex fiancé and not feel threatened by that because your ex is dead. Again, the issue isn't that the OP bf had a great love before her, it's that he is still in love with his ex while maintaining an close friendship with her. You say well if he wanted his ex he could have had her anytime and he would have proposed to his ex not the OP. Ummm...he did propose to his ex and she rejected him. There is no indication that he could have her whenever he wanted. She didn't want him until she recently learned that he was going to propose to the OP.

 

Furthermore he gave the OP no indication that he was willing to end or limit this close relationship with the greatest love of his life for the sake of being considerate of the OPs feelings or in the spirit of leaving the past behind and creating a future with his current gf. Not only did he not make any concessions he also became rather angry and defensive of this great friendship with his great love when the OP tried to express her feelings about it.

 

So how about you go find an exgf that still loves you and whom you still love, bring her into your family, become best friends with her and see her everyday, tell your wife that this ex has always been the greatest love of your life and if your wife tells you the situation is making her uncomfortable, yell at her and shut her down. Let us know how that works out for you.

 

And I'm not saying the OPs ex bf is a bad guy or a villain. The OP accepted this situation for 4yrs and therefore bears some responsibility but she is also very young and maybe didn't know how to speak up about her feelings or assert herself. She knew in her gut that there were unresolved feelings between her ex and his ex and the conversations she has had with them have proven her gut feelings correct. She did what felt right for her which was very wise.

[preraph]

What bugs me about the whole thing is to me, that girl over there the family has known since she was younger sounds more like a step-sister or adopted child, and that's where I'm having trouble with the boundaries all around, him and the parents and Flick.

[Grathblagg]

I see. And if your fiancé rose from the dead, moved in with your family, announced she was still in love with you and then you two became besties who hung out together everyday while you told your wife that your risen from the dead ex was still your greatest love, would your wife still be so understanding?

And if your wife expressed some concern or insecurity over your daily contact with your risen from the dead ex would you take steps to stop or limit contact with your ex so that your wife and your marriage would remain secure? I'm guessing you would since you say you put your wife above all others.

 

It's easy for your wife to know you still have love for your ex fiancé and not feel threatened by that because your ex is dead. Again, the issue isn't that the OP bf had a great love before her, it's that he is still in love with his ex while maintaining an close friendship with her. You say well if he wanted his ex he could have had her anytime and he would have proposed to his ex not the OP. Ummm...he did propose to his ex and she rejected him. There is no indication that he could have her whenever he wanted. She didn't want him until she recently learned that he was going to propose to the OP.

 

Furthermore he gave the OP no indication that he was willing to end or limit this close relationship with the greatest love of his life for the sake of being considerate of the OPs feelings or in the spirit of leaving the past behind and creating a future with his current gf. Not only did he not make any concessions he also became rather angry and defensive of this great friendship with his great love when the OP tried to express her feelings about it.

 

So how about you go find an exgf that still loves you and whom you still love, bring her into your family, become best friends with her and see her everyday, tell your wife that this ex has always been the greatest love of your life and if your wife tells you the situation is making her uncomfortable, yell at her and shut her down. Let us know how that works out for you.

 

And I'm not saying the OPs ex bf is a bad guy or a villain. The OP accepted this situation for 4yrs and therefore bears some responsibility but she is also very young and maybe didn't know how to speak up about her feelings or assert herself. She knew in her gut that there were unresolved feelings between her ex and his ex and the conversations she has had with them have proven her gut feelings correct. She did what felt right for her which was very wise.

 

What an interesting fictional narrative you have created, based loosely on my reality.

 

In spite of all of the specious psychological musings, I see that you have gotten my point. I believe that the true genius in your post is that you managed to cloak it well enough to make it sound as if it were your point all all along.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Grathblagg

[Mackie]

I wouldn't be so sure that things will work out for him and the other girl. The last time they dated, they were teenagers. There is a big difference between what a person needs for a high school relationship versus what they need for an adult relationship. Besides, things must not have worked out that well for them the first time if they ended up splitting apart.

Well I think that is why they spilt up, he wanted an adult relationship, she wanted her freedom

 

It's a somewhat unfortunate situation because any other woman he dates will have the same issue you did. His other ex is going to be a part of his family. Unless he would be willing to see a lot less of his family, it would take a rare type of woman who would feel alright with the situation.

He's so close to his family, i certainly couldn't, and wouldnt want to be the girl that makes him see less of them!

 

I also got the impression that the ex may not love Dane nearly as much as Dane loves her; she probably couldn't bear "losing" Dane to another woman for good. Of course, that's not your business now. OP: Did the ex ever have a boyfriend during those 4 years you were together?

I dunno, I mean, I still love him so I still care about him but I can't worry about their relationship!

I've never been able to work her out, there's two sides, she presents as very over confident, centre of attention, but she has got a more thoughtful, softer side.. Like i say she is really very very good with my little autistic brother, she seems to really get him, I really didn't like her at all before that but then i started to think anyone that takes the time with him isn't all bad..

 

Which actually is another dilemma I have, Dane's been teaching my little brother to sail, ever since he went through a tough time with school, he lovesss it and apparently he's good at it (according to dane because i know nothing about sailing). He said he'd still take him out, but i said no because i need a clean break from him AND because otherwise we're circling around with him being too involved in his "ex's" lives! So i think that was the right thing to do but i do feel bad cause none of it was Ben's fault! But thats a tangent!

 

Er, no, maybe a couple of flings here and there but she's never had a proper boyfriend or even dated anyone seriously. Although i guess that makes sense, if she'd wanted that, she'd of married Dane when he asked, she didn't want a serious relationship at that point in time.

[Mackie]

The whole thing really is a tragedy. I feel for you. Relationships are sooooooo hard to understand sometimes. They're so complex.

 

My point was, to everyone else, since you've been quite moderate in your tone, that making someone bad so that the other person can be called "good" or "right", isn't very productive sometimes. People lose track of the lessons they could learn for the future, if one side of the equation is blamed for everything.

Thank you!

 

Yeah i understand that! It would be ridiculously unfair for me to say this was all his fault, it wasn't. I think we both made little mistakes and in the end that created a problem that i didn't feel we could overcome! I'm not the only one hurting, i know it hurt him too.

 

I'm sorry, but what woman is going to be okay with their boyfriend's ex living with the family? Has she not dated anyone who thought it was odd she lives with her ex-boyfriend's family?

Well like i say, she hasnt dated anyone seriously since Dane. That's a choice she's made, it's not like she could have.

 

I get there were extenuating circumstances, but I just don't think it's a sustainable situation anymore. Frankly, I'm more than a little surprised that your ex and his family don't understand why this living arrangement was uncomfortable for you. It sounds like you made an awful lot of concessions here.

I dunno, I dunno. I guess it works for them, they're happy! But it didnt work for me

 

This is such a great post. OP: I went back to read your earlier threads. There were things which they had done in the past that were highly inappropriate and extremely insensitive to you.

It's definitely not an overnight issue, i think its something thats been under the surface for a long time, maybe always

[Mackie]

What bugs me about the whole thing is to me, that girl over there the family has known since she was younger sounds more like a step-sister or adopted child, and that's where I'm having trouble with the boundaries all around, him and the parents and Flick.

 

Well she was his gf before she was anything else. That was how she met his family, and then i do think she fell into an adopted child type role, which continued even when their relationship ended.

 

His older brothers (then gf, now) fiance actually moved into the family home for a few years as well though, they must have been about 18, because he parents moved away. Although i would definitely say the "look after" or "parent" Flick more than her, she is also definitely considered family, so they do have form for having pretty open doors for 'family'.

[Life lessons]

I've posted previously and have followed your thread and I personally think you made the right decision. Your situation is a rare one...I don't think there's a lot of females that could go through with marrying a guy, that has his ex (who happens to be the love of his life) staying with the family. I know I could never do it! I honestly commend you for making it four years!

 

You sound like an amazing and understanding person. I wish you well and hope you find the love of your life and make all your dreams come true.

[JuneL]

OP: I hope this is not too a silly question: Does the family's cultural background play a role in all this? I think it's fair to say that it's a little unconventional that all the siblings are getting married so young (at 18-22) in this generation, and some of the current or past girlfriends have moved in with the family to live together as a big extended family.

 

If I had an 18-year-old brother who told me he's going to propose to his 18-year-old girlfriend, I would advise him that you are still a kid with much growing up to do.

Edited March 31, 2017 by JuneL

[preraph]

Well I think that is why they spilt up, he wanted an adult relationship, she wanted her freedom

 

 

He's so close to his family, i certainly couldn't, and wouldnt want to be the girl that makes him see less of them!

 

 

I dunno, I mean, I still love him so I still care about him but I can't worry about their relationship!

I've never been able to work her out, there's two sides, she presents as very over confident, centre of attention, but she has got a more thoughtful, softer side.. Like i say she is really very very good with my little autistic brother, she seems to really get him, I really didn't like her at all before that but then i started to think anyone that takes the time with him isn't all bad..

 

Which actually is another dilemma I have, Dane's been teaching my little brother to sail, ever since he went through a tough time with school, he lovesss it and apparently he's good at it (according to dane because i know nothing about sailing). He said he'd still take him out, but i said no because i need a clean break from him AND because otherwise we're circling around with him being too involved in his "ex's" lives! So i think that was the right thing to do but i do feel bad cause none of it was Ben's fault! But thats a tangent!

 

Er, no, maybe a couple of flings here and there but she's never had a proper boyfriend or even dated anyone seriously. Although i guess that makes sense, if she'd wanted that, she'd of married Dane when he asked, she didn't want a serious relationship at that point in time.

 

Yeah. You did the right but difficult thing there about the sailing. You do need a "clean break," and as we know, his family apparently doesn't know the meaning of those words.

[ExpatInItaly]

Yeah. You did the right but difficult thing there about the sailing. You do need a "clean break," and as we know, his family apparently doesn't know the meaning of those words.

 

I very strongly agree.

 

There is a lack of appropriate boundaries and OP, you were wise to extricate yourself.

 

The arrangement they had as young adults won't survive into mature adulthood. And the transition from the former to the latter will get even messier. Mark my words.

[Mackie]

I honestly commend you for making it four years!

I dunno, i think if i couldnt deal with it i should have raised it sooner than I did, but I cant do anything about it now!

You sound like an amazing and understanding person. I wish you well and hope you find the love of your life and make all your dreams come true.

Thank you!

 

OP: I hope this is not too a silly question: Does the family's cultural background play a role in all this? I think it's fair to say that it's a little unconventional that all the siblings are getting married so young (at 18-22) in this generation, and some of the current or past girlfriends have moved in with the family to live together as a big extended family.

 

If I had an 18-year-old brother who told me he's going to propose to his 18-year-old girlfriend, I would advise him that you are still a kid with much growing up to do.

Not a silly question but I don't think so.. his parents married and had their kids young, his dad's a real "all american" country boy type, he's a real 'leader of men', his mum grew up in foster care, moved around quite a bit, she is definitely the 'leader' of his dad lol! They own a little farm/ranch and they have a gorgeous big house, his dad like renovated and extended it all himself, he actually won a little money on a TV show back when he was younger, lol!

They're nice, normal people, VERY family focused, closer than most families.

It is funny how a lot of their kids have settled down young, I don't know why, maybe its because 'family' is so important to them.

They're quite an intimidating family in the sense that they're all so good looking, athletically talented, popular, I do have a soft spot for Dane's littlest brother because he's such a little rogue, not like his brothers at all!

 

Yeah. You did the right but difficult thing there about the sailing. You do need a "clean break," and as we know, his family apparently doesn't know the meaning of those words.

Exactly! Its sweet of him to offer, and i know he means it, but its the same mistake again! I know what its like to have your boyfriend still so invested in an ex, I don't want to become that ex.

Plus, I still love him, I'm just not ready to have him hanging around my little brother.

 

The arrangement they had as young adults won't survive into mature adulthood. And the transition from the former to the latter will get even messier. Mark my words.

I get the impression that maybe she feels that and thats why she came on so strong to try their relationship again, like its now or never..

Edited April 1, 2017 by Mackie

[Shepp]

Mackie, I just looked back, I remember your previous threads! I remember liking the guy! I'm really sorry it didnt work out for you guys.

 

You mention struggling with the decision - but im interested as to what your family think? You mention that he was involved with your little brother with the sailing and that - but, I'm a dad, If my little girl grew up and dated a guy who was still that involved with his ex, I think i'd be concerned about her getting more and more involved in that situation.

[Mackie]

Mackie, I just looked back, I remember your previous threads! I remember liking the guy! I'm really sorry it didnt work out for you guys.

 

You mention struggling with the decision - but im interested as to what your family think? You mention that he was involved with your little brother with the sailing and that - but, I'm a dad, If my little girl grew up and dated a guy who was still that involved with his ex, I think i'd be concerned about her getting more and more involved in that situation.

 

Urm, well my family like him a lot!! To be honest I've always played down his relationship with his ex to my family, its not something i particularly wanted to shout about and I didn't want them to be, like you say, concerned.

 

So obviously my parents support me but its probably seemed quite, out of the blue, for them!

[Sweetfish]

Urm, well my family like him a lot!! To be honest I've always played down his relationship with his ex to my family, its not something i particularly wanted to shout about and I didn't want them to be, like you say, concerned.

 

So obviously my parents support me but its probably seemed quite, out of the blue, for them!

 

 

Well its been a month and i am curious to how this concluded

[Mackie]

Blah! I'm really annoyed at myself!

 

I know I should of just deleted him off everything, i deleted her, but i stayed FB friends with him and just hide his posts because, god knows, because i thought he'd be upset if i deleted him, he'd think i hated him or something.

I wish i hadnt bothered!

 

I didn't think i'd ever feel the need to look but... apparently i did!

Seeing like holiday photos of him and her looking very very cosy indeed! Urgh!

Just feeling a little bit heartbroken tonight and a little bit of a fool!

[JuneL]

You made the right decision. If you haven't already done so, unfriend him on fb and block him on everything else. You sound like a very sweet girl, and I'm sure you'll meet a guy who deserves your love and who understands the concept of setting boundaries.