He proposed and I said no! Did I make a mistake?Update: I think we're really over now

[preraph]

The problem is she's there available to him at anytime and is in love with him. This is too much temptation for any man. Plus the parents have already made her family, which is more than they've done for you. If they are parenting her, they should also be preparing her for adulthood and living on her own supporting herself. I would be very leery of getting into this situation unless you and your husband are planning on moving far, far away.

[divegrl]

I'm so sorry you're going thru this ... it must be really hard for you.

 

This is too much drama. Walk away. Find a man whose exgf does not live with his family.

 

Remember there are no mistakes. Every path is the right path.

 

Good luck to you my friend. Hugs.

[Sweetfish]

Your making this ridiculously complicated. Let me simplify.

 

If he asked you to marry you a month ago... you would have said yes.

Now that the ex has said that she loves him... you retracted his proposal.

 

So are you saying you love him less now....

 

Than a month ago?

 

Do not let the outside world dictate or control the love you have for someone... if you love him... if you have his back... if he has his your back... than you know what you need to do.

 

If you don't love him... do not string him along.

[Sweetfish]

This is too much temptation for any man.

 

Yes...all men are absolutely at the mercy of any women.

[Grathblagg]

You've done your boyfriend a favor. After 4 years of being with him you don't trust him. 4 years is enough to figure that out. He proposed to you and you essentially said "I don't trust your judgement in asking me to marry you, and I don't trust that you love me in an exclusive way".

 

If you can't trust him after dating him, sleeping with him, and living with him, maybe you should move on and let him move on.

 

Afterwards, you can reflect upon yourself and decide if you have trust issues, or if he was not honest with you.

 

One thing is for sure, there was certainly a lack of effective communication, because you shouldn't have been surprised all that much when he asked you to marry him, and he shouldn't have been surprised at your reason for turning him down, as all of this should have been discussed at some point in time. Instead, both of you went blissfully through your lives doing all the things that married couples do, without the deep, honest, and heart-felt discussions that should accompany all of the fun.

[Grathblagg]

Remember there are no mistakes. Every path is the right path.

 

Wow. That's a philosophical recipe for a lifetime of setbacks.

 

Even the most balanced of Zen masters would have a hard time not getting a belly laugh out of that statement.

[divegrl]

Wow. That's a philosophical recipe for a lifetime of setbacks.

 

Even the most balanced of Zen masters would have a hard time not getting a belly laugh out of that statement.

 

Hugs my friend. Have a great day.

[Grathblagg]

Hugs my friend. Have a great day.

 

Thanks for the hugs! You too.

[Mackie]

The problem is she's there available to him at anytime and is in love with him. This is too much temptation for any man.

Yeah, i mean i wonder if I'm being stupid because, like i honestly don't believe he'd ever cheat or ever leave me. But I dunno, I struggle with their connection, i struggle with the fact that he would stay because he thinks its right not necessarily because its whats in his heart. I dunno.

 

Plus the parents have already made her family, which is more than they've done for you.

I can't say his parents haven't been good to me, they've been very welcoming. I love his dad, he's a real 'head of the family', he'll sort out any problem. But i do think thats part of why he's very much someone who had taken a lot of responsibility to look after [the ex] in a sense.

 

I would be very leery of getting into this situation unless you and your husband are planning on moving far, far away.

He would never do that. And i could never ask him to do that! He is so close to them! We're over to the family house for dinner every Thursday, he'll always be going canoeing or mountain biking with his brothers, he does amateur stock car racing with his dad & his brothers. They're such a massive part of his life, like I would never want to take that away from him.

[Mackie]

Your making this ridiculously complicated. Let me simplify.

 

If he asked you to marry you a month ago... you would have said yes.

Now that the ex has said that she loves him... you retracted his proposal.

 

So are you saying you love him less now....

 

Than a month ago?

 

Do not let the outside world dictate or control the love you have for someone... if you love him... if you have his back... if he has his your back... than you know what you need to do.

 

If you don't love him... do not string him along.

No not at all, I don't love him any less! I think he's amazing. I think he'd be a wonderful husband, a wonderful father. I want to say yes, I want to be his wife! But then, why does it feel wrong, I know HE asked ME but i cant help but feel like its out of 'duty', like I'm standing in his way, i know that sounds weird.

I do love him, i do have his back and i KNOW he has a pure heart and the best of intentions, but, i know he would never of left her, i know he'd still be with her if she hadnt ended it, i'm certain that if i walked away they'd get back together, and i just cant get that out of my head.

Its a *****ty self fulfilling proficiency i guess

 

I text him today, I'm going to go see him at his house tomorrow. We need to talk.

 

I'm so sorry you're going thru this ... it must be really hard for you.

Thank you. I feel terrible for hurting him thought!

[preraph]

He has the power to make his parents understand how this having that woman at their house is messing up his life. Since he's done nothing about it, I can only assume he likes that she is there. If he told them this is keeping him from marrying the girl he loves, they would make other arrangements for her.

[Mackie]

You've done your boyfriend a favor. After 4 years of being with him you don't trust him. 4 years is enough to figure that out. He proposed to you and you essentially said "I don't trust your judgement in asking me to marry you, and I don't trust that you love me in an exclusive way".

 

If you can't trust him after dating him, sleeping with him, and living with him, maybe you should move on and let him move on.

Ah i don't know. Maybe you are right!

I feel like i do trust him, but I'm not closed off to an outside opinion. It's hard. Maybe i'm guilty of feeling like i know him better than he knows himself, or potentially more accurately than he will admit to himself.

Maybe im over-complicating, maybe im jsut jealous of the hold she seems to have over him still, of the connection they seem to have. I don't know.

It's not easy for me thought. All i want to do is drive over there and tell him im sorry and beg for another chance, but ah theres something making me feel uncomfortable, and the fact that i miss him like crazy doesnt make that go away!

 

One thing is for sure, there was certainly a lack of effective communication, because you shouldn't have been surprised all that much when he asked you to marry him, and he shouldn't have been surprised at your reason for turning him down, as all of this should have been discussed at some point in time. Instead, both of you went blissfully through your lives doing all the things that married couples do, without the deep, honest, and heart-felt discussions that should accompany all of the fun.

Maybe! Maybe i bottled my feelings up instead of rocking the boat.

[Mackie]

He has the power to make his parents understand how this having that woman at their house is messing up his life. Since he's done nothing about it, I can only assume he likes that she is there. If he told them this is keeping him from marrying the girl he loves, they would make other arrangements for her.

 

He wouldnt want them to cut her off! I dont think he'd want her to not be a part of his life. Wether he'd openly say that, i dont know, but I'm pretty confident it true!!

This was before i even knew that he kept quiet about his proposal to her in order to save her relationship with his family, purely for her benefit

 

I'm going to see him tomorrow, i think we need a proper talk. As much as i dont doubt he loves me, that he'd always be faithful, always treat me amazingly and be a solid life partner, I still feel deep down that if i walked in there and took a really hard her or me line, he would try to defend her! I know he would!

And thats hard! He is always super supportive of me, but he's supportive of her too, and its hard to share sometimes. Im never totally sure that if i made him pick, her or me, if i'd win, thats a reality i dont think ive ever even admitted to myself!

[preraph]

He wouldnt want them to cut her off! I dont think he'd want her to not be a part of his life. Wether he'd openly say that, i dont know, but I'm pretty confident it true!!

This was before i even knew that he kept quiet about his proposal to her in order to save her relationship with his family, purely for her benefit

 

I'm going to see him tomorrow, i think we need a proper talk. As much as i dont doubt he loves me, that he'd always be faithful, always treat me amazingly and be a solid life partner, I still feel deep down that if i walked in there and took a really hard her or me line, he would try to defend her! I know he would!

And thats hard! He is always super supportive of me, but he's supportive of her too, and its hard to share sometimes. Im never totally sure that if i made him pick, her or me, if i'd win, thats a reality i dont think ive ever even admitted to myself!

 

What you just said tells me you definitely shouldn't marry him. His wife or future wife should come first over her or his own parents even. He has her right there available if he ever wants her, and she is as likely to try to drive a wedge (let's face it, she already has) as breathe. When you have kids, would you want her buddying up to them, babysitting them? The fact he'll defend her rather than address your needs is an "it is what it is" moment. It has already begun. He is placing her over you.

[Chi townD]

Okay,

 

I've been sitting here reading page after page of you saying that he's wonder, amazing, selfless, would be an incredible husband and father, his family likes you....he proposes and you say "No" because you believe that he's still in love with his Ex?

 

You even asked him and he said "yes" that he'll always love her to some degree. But, he's a nice guy that seems like he doesn't hold grudges. Perhaps, it was more along the lines of he loves what they had, but that's gone now. I'm pretty sure he wasn't in love with getting dumped.

 

But, one day, he asked you to be his wife. To which, you said "no". So, what's going through his mind? That you don't love him the way he loves you. That you don't love him enough to be his wife. He's heartbroken and embarrassed. Guys can handle rejection. But, to reject a marriage proposal when you thought there was going to be no way she would say no....well, that destroys you. His male ego is shot to hell. He probably feel like a tourist attraction where people say, "Nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there." Same thing for him. "Nice guy to date, but not for the rest of my life." Now, he probably feels that he's not good enough.

 

Now, I don't mean to make you feel worse. But, I want you to understand what you lost. Sounds like you lost a really good guy. And those are hard to come by these days. If you want to try and get him back, you need to move now. You need to explain your reasons and LISTEN to what he has to say. If something is unclear to you, ask for clarification. If you're lucky enough to get him back, don't expect him to try a second proposal for a LONG time.

[Grathblagg]

I'm going to see him tomorrow, i think we need a proper talk. As much as i dont doubt he loves me, that he'd always be faithful, always treat me amazingly and be a solid life partner, I still feel deep down that if i walked in there and took a really hard her or me line, he would try to defend her! I know he would!

And thats hard! He is always super supportive of me, but he's supportive of her too, and its hard to share sometimes. Im never totally sure that if i made him pick, her or me, if i'd win, thats a reality i dont think ive ever even admitted to myself!

 

I'm confident, since you are asking yourself these hard questions, that you will now have a productive and enlightening talk with him, and get all of this out in the open. Nagging feelings and suspicions should never be swept under the rug when it comes to those you love. Always leave no stone unturned.

 

Relationships are hard, and marriages take quite a bit of effort. It's not the stuff of Hollywood love stories, I know, but it is what it is. Communicating your concerns with him, and seeing his reactions, will be good for you.

 

Remember that he now is shaken up a little as well now. The way that he handles your honesty will tell you more about him tomorrow than you learned about him over the last 4 years, I suspect.

 

Hang in there, and kudos to you for your rational introspection and desire to seek outside opinions in an anonymous and safe environment! I wish you the best with your meetup tomorrow.

[Mackie]

I'm confident, since you are asking yourself these hard questions, that you will now have a productive and enlightening talk with him, and get all of this out in the open. Nagging feelings and suspicions should never be swept under the rug when it comes to those you love. Always leave no stone unturned.

 

Relationships are hard, and marriages take quite a bit of effort. It's not the stuff of Hollywood love stories, I know, but it is what it is. Communicating your concerns with him, and seeing his reactions, will be good for you.

 

Remember that he now is shaken up a little as well now. The way that he handles your honesty will tell you more about him tomorrow than you learned about him over the last 4 years, I suspect.

 

Hang in there, and kudos to you for your rational introspection and desire to seek outside opinions in an anonymous and safe environment! I wish you the best with your meetup tomorrow.

Thank you, so much!

 

His wife or future wife should come first over her or his own parents even. He has her right there available if he ever wants her, and she is as likely to try to drive a wedge (let's face it, she already has) as breathe. When you have kids, would you want her buddying up to them, babysitting them? The fact he'll defend her rather than address your needs is an "it is what it is" moment. It has already begun. He is placing her over you.

Hmm this is kinda it, I would never want to pit myself against his parents and make him choose, i just wouldn't want to! But I do have real doubts that he ever would! I guess thats the thing, i've said all along he makes me feel cherished and he does, i've never doubted his love, ive never doubted his commitment, but i've also never really felt comfortable that im top of his list!

[Mackie]

So bit of an update after I went to see him,

 

His ex answered the door when I went to the house so that was pretty much an as awkward a start as I could of had! It was all a bit, weird, tense.

 

I saw him. Its hard. He was upset and confused. I tried to explain why I did what I did, It's not because I don't love him, or that I don't want to marry him. Because I do, I love him, I told him that.

He was, I guess understandably, defensive, (and quick to defend her). He was like 'It's not about her [his ex], don't make it about her, nothings changed, the only change was me asking you to marry me, we were fine before that!! I thought you wanted that too but apparently the thought of spending a life with me is enough to send any girl running!"

This is where i got upset, because, like its just so frustrating! I know he's hurting but so am I, its not like i wanted this, I didn't!

He sat down with me and put his arm around me and then I was really really crying, which isnt like me, i think its just all, well broken my heart to be honest.

He was like "I just dont get it [mackie], I don't understand where this is coming from, I honestly thought we were so strong"

I told him I cant marry him and keep pushing those insecurities i have, like does he love her or what? He said "I love you, i want to spend my life with you thats all that matters"

Which kind of annoyed me cause again he deflected the question. I said like "I'm sorry i hurt you, i sorry i didnt bring this up sooner and i waited till you were on one knee, i sorry, i feel terrible, but quit playing the victim and leaving me to take all the blame, like im this terrible person who set out to break your heart and just give me a honest, straight answer! I need that Dane!"

 

He didn't say anything for a while and then he said [paraphrasing] "It's different [mackie], they're two separate things, you're asking me to measure love. I was head over heels in love with her, i wanted forever, i wanted marriage, kids, grandkids & a dog. But she didn't, If she had, id still be with her thats true, BUT she didnt so i moved on. I still love her, I'll always love her, but what i'm looking for is someone to spend my life with! And I met you, i fell in love with you , because i am so in love with you in case you didnt know, and we planned a future, i thought you saw the same future i did, thats why i was so so confident proposing to you, so confident in the fact id spend my life with you"

 

I was like 'But Dane, you're telling me you;d still be with her if she had wanted all those things years ago, what about now, what about now she does want those things? I do want a future with you, i wanted all the things you say, but i'm feeling like second pick, I could live with being your plan B, some of the best things in the world have been plan B, if i knew plan A was dead in the water but it isnt. Shes still here, eating with your family, borrowing you're brothers car, telling me she loves you. She is still a massive part of you're life! And maybe i could live with that if i believe the connection we have is stronger, the love we have is deeper, because for me it is all those things but is it for you?

Forget about the past, forget about the future, Im not a dream Dane you know that i dont live in a fairytale, i know that people dont always end up with the love of there life and i know thats okay, I think thats why ive waited so long to say anything, because you make me SO happy, but when you asked me to marry you it just hit me and i had to know, dont think you're sparing me anything by not being honest with me, It doesnt make you a bad guy if our love never eclipsed what you had with her, it doesnt mean that our realtonship may not have worked out. But i know she loves you, and i cant live with all this doubt, all this never knowing, i feel like im living in turmoil Dane so please just be as honest as you can be, when you close your eyes and think about the greatest love of your life, i see you but do you see me or is it Flick?"

 

And he was teary eyed "Its her, its always been her, I think maybe it always will be....but i don't want this to be it for us babe, I dont want us to be over, i wanted to marry you, I still want that!"

 

I cant explain the feeling, it was like out of body, it was my worst fears, every hope i clung to of it not being the case was smashed. But at the same time there was this weird relief, its what ive felt deep down, its whats plagued my sleepless nights and to finally hear him say it, to stop questioning myself, it was a really odd ironic sense of relief.

 

He asked me if i hated him, and i said that i didnt, but that i couldnt be his mate, not right now at least, and i couldnt marry him. I told him that likewise he needs to listen to his heart, you shouldnt totally give up whats in your heart to make someone else happy (i feel like thats what he's been doing and ultimately it's just hurt me more, i'm not going to effectively make the same mistake). And i told him that is he honestly feels like he says he does then I certainly don't want an invite to the wedding or anything but maybe he proposed to the wrong girl!

 

Its over. I know it has to be over. If she want so involved in his life, maybe we could work, but she is. I don't hate him, Christ I still love him and i genuinely want him to be happy. I'm happy that we didn't end on some screaming match because that's never been us or our relationship, i feel good about that. But God this hurts. I think now i'm not doubting anymore, now i finally know, its just hit me like a ton of bricks. I wanted it to work soooo badly! I've never wanted anything more! I've never been more in love! Once again i've lost all the reslove i had in the moment and all i want to do now is go running back to him, but i know i can't.

It's just hard! Really really hard. We went from great to over so quicky, its not like we ever fought or fell out, it was perfect right up until when it wasnt.

:(:(:(:(

[Mackie]

^ God, i wrote loads. It feels good somehow to put it all down. I know its right, but i guess before i held some hope i was wrong and we'd get backk together and it'd all be perfect and that fantasy's gone now.

[doyathinkso]

please just be as honest as you can be, when you close your eyes and think about the greatest love of your life, i see you but do you see me or is it Flick?"

 

And he was teary eyed "Its her, its always been her, I think maybe it always will be....but i don't want this to be it for us babe, I dont want us to be over, i wanted to marry you, I still want that!"

 

 

 

Well, when that clueless manipulative son of a beach said that you should have just got up and left.

No more words are or ever will be necessary on either of your parts.

Block him. Lose his number. Change yours. Change your address.

He should never ever be a part of your life from here on out.

 

Consider yourself lucky. You just dodged a bullet. You trusted your gut, and your gut was right.

[preraph]

Jeez, Mackie, I'm so sorry. I'm just now reading this. I'm just glad he finally admitted she's still number 1. I figured she had to be for his parents to stick to her like glue. At least now you know. This is what I've found lacking with one of my old bfs: They may love one person and then just collect another one. It's like their love comes with no loyalty or the things that you need to stick together. I mean, I do realize that love comes from within and we can give it to whoever we want and it can be more than one person. But that doesn't work very well in the real world. We have to have enough respect for the other person not to insult them by treating them as interchangeable or disposable on any level.

 

You did the right thing. He shouldn't have tried to deflect this back on you, so i'm very proud of you for standing your ground and calling him on that. As if this is YOUR fault!! With an ex living with his parents who says she still loves him, totally being allowed to intrude on your relationship.

 

Listen, you will have sadness, but you should have no regrets. No one in their right mind would have stayed in these circumstances. My guess is she would have pulled some serious shenanigans to try to break you up before you married or after. I don't get why he's not with her if she says she loves him and he loves her. But on her part, it sounds more like "I don't want him but don't want anyone else to have him." His parents should be ashamed for enabling all this, really. I mean, they are supposed to be adults. GRRRR

 

You feel the weight lifted and pamper yourself and don't look back. Once you feel better, be sure and make yourself go out and do things and be social. So sorry. You didn't deserve this.

[Mackie]

Well, when that clueless manipulative son of a beach said that you should have just got up and left.

No more words are or ever will be necessary on either of your parts.

Block him. Lose his number. Change yours. Change your address.

He should never ever be a part of your life from here on out.

 

Consider yourself lucky. You just dodged a bullet. You trusted your gut, and your gut was right.

I wish that I was that mad at him that i felt like that, because that would be so much easier!

 

But I'm not, and I don't. I don't hate him, I don't think he's those things. I still believe hes a really lovely guy, who's been really silly because had he been honest with himself, and with me (and even with her) sooner, even if it was hard and he knew it was going to upset people, it would have saved us both a lot of heartache in the end.

 

But I have to look at myself as well, I could have raised concerns sooner, i could have actually opened my eyes and because i could see how strong there connection was but i just chose to ignore it, which i think is pretty much what he did too. Ultimately, I'm just sad.

 

I don't believe I dodged a bullet, I feel like we could have had a good life together, we complimented each other well and we wanted the same things in life, but that he was never really 'mine', there was always her, and if I'm really honest with myself i think i felt that in the first couple of months of being together! I'm kind of annoyed that that's whats was in my gut 4 years ago, and i didnt go with it, I went with my heart and my head and I ignored my gut!

[Mackie]

Jeez, Mackie, I'm so sorry.

Thank you. And thanks for all your support and advice.

I'm just now reading this. I'm just glad he finally admitted she's still number 1. I figured she had to be for his parents to stick to her like glue. At least now you know.

Yeah, on one hand now there is no hope, but on the other, knowing for sure is a weight lifted. I do think she wasn't innocent when she told me she loved him, I think she surely must have known the effect that would have but I do maybe understand a little more her sentiment of 'I'm not going to do you the disservice of lying to you and making you think this is all in your head', If they love each other then why string this all out. I'm adult enough to say that if they both feel like that then they should be together, its not like we're married or have children or anything, not that I'm not heartbroken but I love the guy and if she is 'the one' for him then I dont feel good about standing in his way!

I don't know what his parents thought or didnt think, they were perfectly lovely to me, but stick to her like glue they certainly did.

 

This is what I've found lacking with one of my old bfs: They may love one person and then just collect another one. It's like their love comes with no loyalty or the things that you need to stick together. I mean, I do realize that love comes from within and we can give it to whoever we want and it can be more than one person. But that doesn't work very well in the real world. We have to have enough respect for the other person not to insult them by treating them as interchangeable or disposable on any level.

Yeah i totally feel you on this! I think that's what he's done. He never got over her, he just chose to move on and went through the motions, and i think he would have continued to go through the motions until he was 86, he'd of done what he thought was 'right' by me, but if he loves her then keeping her as a massive part of his life while moving forward in a relationship with me is a ludicrous situation and he's not doing 'right' by anyone not me, or him, or even her!

 

You did the right thing. He shouldn't have tried to deflect this back on you, so i'm very proud of you for standing your ground and calling him on that. As if this is YOUR fault!! With an ex living with his parents who says she still loves him, totally being allowed to intrude on your relationship.

Right, this was the only thing that did make me mad! Because i've been feeling guilty for saying no to him, i've been taking flack off people for hurting him and that's simply not fair! It wasnt me that ended this!! I just wanted him to be a man and just give me the answer that i need, even if its not easy to say.

 

Listen, you will have sadness, but you should have no regrets. No one in their right mind would have stayed in these circumstances.

No, i know. I am really sad but i'm trying to be really philosphical about the fact that this was always going to happen and it should of happened 4 years ago but better now than i waste another year.

But i feel quite numb at the moment so I think its going to get harder

I try reallyyy hard not and i know that i shouldnt but our relationship was so good, I cant help but think like what did she have that I didnt. But i dont want to compare myself to her and i dont want to compare our relationship to theirs. I know that thats not necessarily how matters of the heart work anyway it doenst aways make sense, but its hard not to look back and over analyse everything!

I asked him one time if he thought it was weird that we never argue, and he said "no because we have really good communication", but him and her could happily bicker like an old married couple.

 

I don't get why he's not with her if she says she loves him and he loves her.

Well this is it, i think purely because he was with me!

I'm sure he has her shoulder to cry on now and I wonder how quickly they'll get together once the dust settles.

 

You feel the weight lifted and pamper yourself and don't look back. Once you feel better, be sure and make yourself go out and do things and be social. So sorry. You didn't deserve this.

Thank you. Yeah! I don't think i deserved it either aha! I'll try, I'll try! It's just hard! Its hard to get it off my mind!

[MrDuck]

Yeah, on one hand now there is no hope, but on the other, knowing for sure is a weight lifted. I do think she wasn't innocent when she told me she loved him, I think she surely must have known the effect that would have but I do maybe understand a little more her sentiment of 'I'm not going to do you the disservice of lying to you and making you think this is all in your head', If they love each other then why string this all out. I'm adult enough to say that if they both feel like that then they should be together, its not like we're married or have children or anything, not that I'm not heartbroken but I love the guy and if she is 'the one' for him then I dont feel good about standing in his way!

I don't know what his parents thought or didnt think, they were perfectly lovely to me, but stick to her like glue they certainly did.

 

I'm sure it must be hard, I cant even imagine. I totally get why you'd be hurtin' & over-analysing, of course you are.

I don't have any world beating post break up advice but I did want to say that through everything you write you have come across as an incredibly classy lady who has handled a totally shyt situation with a hell of a lot of grace and empathy. And that tells me that however bad you feel right now you're gonna be just fine, and make some guy very lucky one day! You're certainly right to leave him, even if he is a great guy, you don't deserve to be someones second pick, dont settle for that!

[1fish2fish]

Wow!!

 

I had a brief flashback to that episode of Friends where Ross falls in love with Julie but lets her go for Rachel because "it's always been you, Rachel." And you are Julie.

 

I am so very sorry you are going through this. But...I'm also so impressed with how you handled it and finally getting to the root of things.

 

I want to know, though, if "she" was there in the same room, or nearby, during your conversation?

 

And did she know you were coming? The fact that she answered the door floored me. That would have completely taken me off guard.

 

Big hugs to you!