PUAs ?? How effective is this?

[Cookiesandough]

Do any other women run into these guys a lot? Do people really go for this? They must if this is a thing? I just don't understand how this can work

Edited March 19, 2017 by Cookiesandough
Rant

[Simple Logic]

Do any other women run into these guys a lot? Do people really go for this? They must if this is a thing? I just don't understand how this can work

 

It basically is a low risk high reward endeavor in which success is obtained by setting a lot of nets. Do you run into these guys a lot and in what situations?

[Mysterio]

I wish that more people were open to meeting/dating people. Perhaps these sites would not exist.

 

To me when I think of PUA type of situation. It just reeks of despiration. I want love and all that jazz, but I have to even dial back my desire for it. I want it strong and healthy. Not just be with anyone and take whats dropped in front of me.

 

Notice there is no female orientated PUA. So either the men are getting desperate with trying to find love/sex. Or the Woman are making it harder to approach them. Plus I think some women are just marrying/having kids because of status situation. I feel like more Women if given the chance would jump out of their relationship way over the men.

 

Women are the ones to initiate Divorce over men. I think that for guys dating just be well groomed and manored at all time. Don't start pawing the women. Don't start acting like its the end of the world if they reject you.

 

Just go out there and live your life. If a female is single and tics your boxes. Then ask her out for a Starbucks date your treat. If she agrees take it from there.

[Woggle]

It works for some women but not quality women.

[Sweetfish]

It works for some women but not quality women.

 

 

LMAO...the higher the quality the easier.

[basil67]

LMAO...the higher the quality the easier.

 

Please elaborate. And what do you define as 'quality'?

[Dark Horse]

I actually think PUA is beneficial for many men. The art of pickup isn't always trying to bed as many girls as possible, it's also trying to understand how dating works, how to attract women, how to get a girlfriend, how to build attraction and not get friend-zoned etc... Pickup just tries to break down the rules of dating. I know for someone like myself who has aspergers and social skills doesn't come naturally to me, I like the fact that PUA breaks it down and analyzes dating situations and teaches you the rules.

 

 

So no, PUA isn't bad at all. I think many critics of it just think they're all a bunch of **** boys who just want to bed as many girls as possible.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Dark Horse

[basil67]

I actually think PUA is beneficial for many men. The art of pickup isn't always trying to bed as many girls as possible, it's also trying to understand how dating works, how to attract women, how to get a girlfriend, how to build attraction and not get friend-zoned etc... Pickup just tries to break down the rules of dating. I know for someone like myself who has aspergers and social skills doesn't come naturally to me, I like the fact that PUA breaks it down and analyzes dating situations and teaches you the rules.

 

 

So no, PUA isn't bad at all. I think many critics of it just think they're all a bunch of **** boys who just want to bed as many girls as possible.

 

For me, the objection isn't because I think they want to bed many girls. I suspect many guys who employ PUA techniques just want to get a girlfriend and are looking to improve their technique. (Just as you've described)

 

The thing which many object to are the insidious techniques which the men are taught. Here's an article describing the techniques to women and strategies they can use to avoid the men who are using PUA methods. An Easy Guide to Fending Off Pick Up Artists

 

I particularly like the suggestion of the girl farting if she finds herself pulled into the lap of a PUA

[Moves Like Jagger]

First off, I treat PUA as only a resource. I take what I can use and discard the rest that don't work or is really unethical. For a lot of guys, we just treat it as a tool. Just because most PUA products are rip-offs, doesn't mean that we should ignore the legit products.

 

A big reason why PUA is so popular with a lot of guys is because we can't rely on the conventional psychology industry for dating advice. I hate to break it to you, but therapists are not dating coaches. A lot of people on the Internet seem to think that therapists can coach guys on how to meet women. Well, a lot of therapists either aren't good at pickup or they don't know how hard it is for guys to meet women as guys. Therapists are not trained to be dating coaches. Expecting a therapist to be a dating coach is like asking your doctor for legal advice. Therapists are supposed to be helping you with your thoughts and feelings. They are not there to break down the strategy of meeting women in a nightclub.

 

Regarding that Jezebel article, the writer assumes that PUA is about using new techniques like kino. In reality, kino is touching. Guys have been using touching since the beginning of time to seduce women. Whether there are PUAs or not, women will continue to get seduced by guys who are charming and aggressive. And a lot of women want to get seduced because they like sex.

[Cookiesandough]

It basically is a low risk high reward endeavor in which success is obtained by setting a lot of nets. Do you run into these guys a lot and in what situations?

 

Bars and online , mostly.

 

Irl. They're pretty easy to spot because they're so awkward in a specific way I can't quite articulate. Their behavior is very intense and erratic. Not like a normal person would engage with you. Creepy and overbearing/pushy in a predatory way and then act dismissive the next when it doesn't work. Very poorly feigned 'confidence' that manifests as try hard and arrogant. The negging and obvious manipulation...

 

Idk, It's hard to describe but they just give me the creeps. Moreso than the other thirsty guys who don't resort to these tactics lol

 

 

I guess I'm just puzzled why this stuff works. It's very easy for most people with an iota of social awareness to spot fake people. So it must work on people who have very poor social skills and/or who are extremely insecure/unhealthy(seek validation from men) and naive. That makes me sad.

 

A person who'd go for it would probably go for anything.

 

 

There's conferences on these things too lol

Edited March 20, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[Imajerk17]

My (politically incorrect) take:

 

Guys get into PUA in the first place because they are trying to figure out what they can do to have more success with women. And, the politically incorrect truth is that being successful with women is NOT (for better or for worse) about looks, height, money, career success, or even "being a good person". Those things can help but it's not the end-all be-all by any means. Look around LS if you don't believe me here. There are a gazillion threads on here about women obsessed with a dude who has nothing going for him.

 

Much of the (better) stuff taught is the stuff that guys who are naturally good with women do, without even consciously thinking--everything from teasing and banter, to leading the interaction forward. And, it's not all bad. I don't think a lot of women understand the challenges that come with doing our gender's end of early steps of the Mating Dance. (I mean, for one thing, YOU try walking over and starting a conversation with someone who is with their friends.) And there are a lot of well-intentioned guys who don't get it.

 

The problems come when guys learning this stuff are too socially uncalibrated to understand how to apply techniques smoothly to fit THEIR personality, so it comes across as weird. e.g., They will make a "neg" that was meant to tease and joke but that will instead come across mean. And there are a few guys who are so angry with women that they will try to get back at them for earlier rejections. BUT, I don't think that these are the guys you truly should be concerned about. Some nerdy guy who is using techniques that he just learned a month ago will telegraph that, so you will at least have some idea what is up beforehand.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Imajerk17

[CptInsano]

I actually think PUA is beneficial for many men. [...]

 

I would say that PUA may be beneficial for some men, but I would assume that these men are the ones who need it the least. Similar to very expensive sporting equipment: It doesn't help those who don't show a certainly level of natural proficiency or experience.

 

In that regard I consider most of the courses, books, seminars, etc. a rip-off, because they appeals to an audience that is not able to profit from it, even though there is some truth buried in that information.

[Imported]

I guess I'm just puzzled why this stuff works. It's very easy for most people with an iota of social awareness to spot fake people.

 

I think the guys are in fact socially awkward and it amounts to fake it till you make it. Eventually, what they fake becomes ingrained and they come off more "real".

 

"That stuff doesn't work on me" will work when it doesn't come off as "that stuff".

 

I just use the oldest trick in the book.

[CaliforniaGirl]

I am so over PUA and the unattractive, social skills-less men it churns out.

 

If it were a lot of techniques to improve dating, improve oneself, be more fun and attractive, etc., that would be totally fine. I'd be all for it!

 

But instead it seems to treat women like they're brainless response machines who will pull their panties off faster and faster the more they're mistreated.

 

Neg a woman, ignore her and make her think you're superior and that you're off doing some other woman in order to trick and scare her into letting you poke her. Yeah, good plan. Not to mention, when does it ever work? As a poster above mentioned, if the principles are loosely working qwitn a given individual that's generally a person who didn't in ed as much help anyway.

 

Have I experienced it? Yes, and it is always awkward, excruciating and makes me dry up like a Chisholm Trail creek bed. It makes it screamingly obvious that the guy never gets laid except when "negging" drunk rejects at closing time. Ugh, abort mission, abort mission...

 

Ugh, it just makes a man look like he's no longer a man, to me. It's thirsty and desperate. No matter how good the guy believes he is about it.

 

Then when you see the actual "gurus" they're already physically attractive or charismatic speakers, duh, or else they're claiming to be gods but like Roosh was discovered to be, are dirty-shirtd losers "temporarily" living in their mother's basement. That doesn't give anybody a clue? And yet starving guys throw their money at these dudes. Guess who's really being manipulated into giving them something, fellas? Yes, you and your wallet. It's tragic and wrong.

 

So...unappealing, socially unskilled, nervous, disliking of women and treating women like apes expected to respond like any dog would, yeah...not a fan.

 

I've always liked men who like themselves and like women. Men who like women and are happy, have a good time and are charismatic (not necessarily conventionally good looking), who make people comfortable, who make women laugh and feel good are the ones who never hurt for company. That has stood the test of time. Go to any bar, party, gathering...anywhere and you'll see it's true. Hell, you already know it's true. But some loser on the internet has told you you can get unlmited kitty "from 9s and 10s" with their system of making women feel insecure and the wallet opens. Who's really getting taken here?

[Sweetfish]

Please elaborate. And what do you define as 'quality'?

 

Educated, Good-looking, and career minded..

[basil67]

Educated, Good-looking, and career minded..

 

And you're saying that PUA works best on these women? What's your theory?

[TheTraveler]

I actually think PUA is beneficial for many men. The art of pickup isn't always trying to bed as many girls as possible, it's also trying to understand how dating works, how to attract women, how to get a girlfriend, how to build attraction and not get friend-zoned etc... Pickup just tries to break down the rules of dating. I know for someone like myself who has aspergers and social skills doesn't come naturally to me, I like the fact that PUA breaks it down and analyzes dating situations and teaches you the rules.

 

 

So no, PUA isn't bad at all. I think many critics of it just think they're all a bunch of **** boys who just want to bed as many girls as possible.

 

I agree with above

 

 

Educated, Good-looking, and career minded..

 

Sweetfish is right based off my experiences.

 

YMMV

[CaliforniaGirl]

Educated, Good-looking, and career minded..

 

OMG, come on, get serious.

 

If you add "...and INCREDIBLY insecure and possibly a former abuse victim" to the above then I can absolutely believe it.

 

Any woman I've ever known, including myself, who had even a modicum of self-respect had PUA style garbage (which, as some have said, is old as the sun or older...but now of course has increased in the misogyny factor, I mean it's just scary) down, and from that point forward rejected, by their early 20s at the very latest.

 

I know there are many here who will say "but just look at ALL the women who love abusers! Even prison inmates!" Yes, there are! Please refer to my sentence #2 above.

 

If that's the girl for you, then great! Have at the PUA stuff.

[CptInsano]

A big reason why PUA is so popular with a lot of guys is because we can't rely on the conventional psychology industry for dating advice.

 

Why would you need that? This is not a rhetorical question, but all my life I simply started chatting with women, and maybe asked them out. What psychological help is needed in that regard? Is it not enough to have a good time and take it further if both sides agree?

 

Maybe it's an age thing, but ever since I turned 40 it seems that I don't need to do much at all but smile a little. I find that many women love to talk, you just need to not give them an excuse to stop.

[SevenCity]

OMG, come on, get serious.

 

If you add "...and INCREDIBLY insecure and possibly a former abuse victim" to the above then I can absolutely believe it.

 

Any woman I've ever known, including myself, who had even a modicum of self-respect had PUA style garbage (which, as some have said, is old as the sun or older...but now of course has increased in the misogyny factor, I mean it's just scary) down, and from that point forward rejected, by their early 20s at the very latest.

 

I know there are many here who will say "but just look at ALL the women who love abusers! Even prison inmates!" Yes, there are! Please refer to my sentence #2 above.

 

If that's the girl for you, then great! Have at the PUA stuff.

 

What did a PUA do to you that makes you hold such hostility against them? Did a PUA hurt you in the past?

 

I've read PUA books after my last breakup and found some interesting parallels with my success in the past. A lot of stuff I had forgotten because I wasn't single for a long long time and was out of practice. It was stuff I had done / ways I had acted in the past that resonated with me "Oh yeah, now I remember".

 

Some PUAs are better than others but the techniques are often based on psychological responses to stimuli. They work well. Basically they are trying to teach a guy who's not successful with women how successful guys act.

 

How many times do guys monopolize the conversation on a date trying to sell themselves? I see this here a lot. This is one thing PUA can help with - it's better to have the girl doing the talking and that has worked for me on dates. Guys might not know this and feel they have to prove themselves to a woman.

 

Some of it like the Roosh V stuff isn't for me. I'm not interested in sleeping with as many women as possible. However I found good info in books from Mark Manson and Richard La Ruina.

 

I read books like this along with other coaching books (Corey Wayne) and relationship books (5 love languages).

 

I don't condemn anyone for trying to get good at something. If that something is sleeping with a lot of women good for them - who am I to judge?

 

I would make a terrible PUA as I tend to lose interest at the first sign of resistance. I've not slept with women in the past (and recently) because it was just too much trouble (which aligns with my goal of finding a serious LTR).

 

If you met a guy who was a true PUA you would never know it. They are very natural and don't look like they are reading from a script. I've known guys that were this good with women - one of which his only concern was sex. He would sleep with ANYONE and had tons of success. And he was not a good looking guy. Good for him!

[TheTraveler]

What did a PUA do to you that makes you hold such hostility against them? Did a PUA hurt you in the past?

 

I think so, and possibly multiple times

[CaliforniaGirl]

I think so, and possibly multiple times

 

No...as I said, I don't fall for that. I don't know many women who do. The ones who do, are desperate, miserable and talk themselves into it, basically.

 

What do I so strongly dislike about PUA? The fact that it is overwhelmingly disliking of women as people...actually, overwhelmingly, it doesn't treat women as people at all. It's more about manipulating a woman's fears to get her to let her put some of your body into her body and then run off, leaving her totally empty.

 

You can call it what you want and claim you don't like "THAT kind of PUA, oh no indeed" but come now. Do a quick Google, and see what the taglines are, overwhelmingly.

 

If you practice some sort of PUA that basically isn't at all what PUA generally is then I can't judge or even tell you what I think of that particular M.O., since you're making it up as you go along. Due to that, I'll let you be the judge there.

[SevenCity]

No...as I said, I don't fall for that. I don't know many women who do. The ones who do, are desperate, miserable and talk themselves into it, basically.

 

What do I so strongly dislike about PUA? The fact that it is overwhelmingly disliking of women as people...actually, overwhelmingly, it doesn't treat women as people at all. It's more about manipulating a woman's fears to get her to let her put some of your body into her body and then run off, leaving her totally empty.

 

You can call it what you want and claim you don't like "THAT kind of PUA, oh no indeed" but come now. Do a quick Google, and see what the taglines are, overwhelmingly.

 

If you practice some sort of PUA that basically isn't at all what PUA generally is then I can't judge or even tell you what I think of that particular M.O., since you're making it up as you go along. Due to that, I'll let you be the judge there.

 

That's a sweeping generalization showing you know little about the topic.

 

Most is how to engage a woman's emotions - not making fun of them Kenneth hits.

 

But I guess this allows you to generalize. Read some of the books I mentioned and judge for yourself. I bet your research is limited to the top google hits.

[Woggle]

Stuff like PUA and The Rules which isn't as hostile to an entire gender but is still game playing has ruined modern day dating. Instead of talking to somebody and striking up a conversation we try to manipulate our way into success. I think if we brought back sincerity and honesty it would solve a lot of problems.

[RecentChange]

yeah I have to say, I haven't read up on PUA methods (I have no reason to).. but.....

 

My general impression, the guys who already have swagger use it to try to stack the numbers, the guys who don't have a way with ladies try to use it as a form of false confidence.

 

I have been hit on by guys in ways that left me scratching my head and wondering "did they read that in a book or something"?

 

There is something about being natural and yourself, and something usually detectable when doing what "one should be doing to get chicks".

 

Do PUA's recommend physical touch?

 

The guy tugging at my shirt (to say it was cute?), the guy wanting a high five, the guy reaching to fix the shoulder of my shirt, the guy who tried to slip his card into my pocket, the guy who put his hand around the small of my back to squeeze in next to me all come to mind.