PUAs ?? How effective is this?

[Sweetfish]

You've taken me completely out of context.

 

I wrote <<I said So oftenguys who can't get dates come here for help. And we do give suggestions. Or we tell them how their thoughts reflect on themselves and that it could be putting out a negative vibe.

 

But it can be like talking to a brick wall at times. They will defend their own behaviour and attitudes to the nth degree while criticising all women as being X and Y (as if all we women think and do the same thing). If a guy wants help, he needs to be able to take in the advice he gets.<<

 

Note that I only referred to the guy who can't get girlfriends who sometimes come here. And I used words such as "it can be" and "at times". This is a far cry from saying "men are like talking to a brick wall".

 

Fair enough.. But as X and Y... be it man or woman, a collective exist. which allows us to give advice. Often means most or majority. Most the nice guys are not getting dates. They are not getting a slew of attention from women. As you said they come into the forum here and reject the advice you and others give. I do agree on this 100%.

 

I'm not concern with the men that can get dates as there are women who have no problem getting men as well.

 

 

Basil67 you are older right.. early 50's

 

Are you actively in the dating scene right now?

Have you dated women?

 

I would assume no to both.

 

If you were a man and started dating women... you would see clearly the frustration and conflict some men have. If you took the ideas that you think how a man should treat a woman and went out dating as a man. I think you would see the conflict.. maybe you do. I don't know.

 

But to hear from most the women on this site.. that their female friends are all dating deadbeats, losers, drop-outs, jerks, and etc

 

Show be tall telling.

 

That is why there is so much criticism directed towards women.

[blockrockinbeat74]

Unfortunately, some of the PUA teachings are rooted in misogyny, so these guys end up in that hateful sphere and only further lower themselves in the eyes of women. PUA teacher Jeff Allen failed Australia's character test and had his visa cancelled when he was coming here to do shows. It's a shame that some men turn to guys like this and come out even worse.

 

Right. So many times the 'nice guy' rhetoric being rejected by women is that they fundamentally have issues with gender equality, which they feel threatened by. The PUA argument plays on the 'nice guys' insecurity by blasting how unfair and unacceptable it is for an educated woman to look for an equal, or how a guy taking on the SAHP role or is fine being a step-parent is somewhat less of a man. It's ok when women are SAHP, apparently.

 

The PUA material is based on the good old days when women knew their place and didn't want better for themselves.

 

Where I live, PUAs don't really work because gender equality is accepted as the norm.

[Imajerk17]

I am agreeing with @sweetfish more on this thread. Guys turned to PUA for advice not because they want to scam women, but because they are struggling with dating and there was nothing else that was helping. And in many cases, it is NOT a matter of these guys being so stubborn and negative and unwilling to take advice.

 

When guys who struggle with women come on here, we tend to give them Self-Improvement advice. And for some guys, it is a good first step. If you have a negative defeatist way of looking at things, then you'd probably get somewhere brightening up your personality. If you are in your 30s and live at home and are unemployed, then getting a job and your own place would be a good first step to help not only your sense of self-respect but also your dating life.

 

But there are many good-looking guys who are great at carrying on conversations, make a good income, and do triathlons on the weekends who can hardly get a woman interested in them. And there are dudes with serious serious problems who have women devoted to them. And there are many average dudes who aren't anything special who have an amazing devoted girlfriend. We see it here in these threads. Everything from women hooked on someone clearly awful for them, to women "seeing a great guy but just not feeling it". This sort of thing happens often enough so that it's not a matter of "Oh those women have low self-esteem" or "She knew him in high school" or whatever. It is instead about whether she feels Chemistry with you or she does not, and Chemistry has little to do with whether a guy has a good job, good looks, and even being able to chat amount whether China is manipulating their currency or not.

 

Now, I'm not saying PUA advice is the best way. I wrote out where I think it goes wrong in my last post on here. But, guys who struggle with dating tend to need SPECIFIC help on how to be the masculine lead in the Mating Dance, which again, goes beyond being a good conversationalist, Self-Improvement, positive attitude, ect.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Imajerk17

[anduina]

I wanna add some information to this thread, because after some research, I'm noticing a correlation between PUA/red pill men and being damaged/hurt by women.

 

The guys who turn to these ideologies have most likely been A) Had a horrible relationship experience /break up/ divorce where they were either dumped or had some other (they feel) horrible thing done to them by a woman (was cheated on, given an ultimatum, abused, etc) or B) have been continuously rejected by women or suffered one traumatic rejection

 

They turn to this for refuge. I feel bad for them now. Tolerance and understanding go hand in hand. I just do not agree with the way they chose. It isn't healthy.

Red pill which includes PUA appears to create or enable a false sense of empowerment and entitlement to its believers. It draws and sabotages a lot of males who have external loci of control. Instead of adopting the emotionally unhealthy rhetoric of red pill, shift from an external to an internal locus of control.

[Sweetfish]

6

Right. So many times the 'nice guy' rhetoric being rejected by women is that they fundamentally have issues with gender equality, which they feel threatened by. The PUA argument plays on the 'nice guys' insecurity by blasting how unfair and unacceptable it is for an educated woman to look for an equal, or how a guy taking on the SAHP role or is fine being a step-parent is somewhat less of a man. It's ok when women are SAHP, apparently.

 

The PUA material is based on the good old days when women knew their place and didn't want better for themselves.

 

Where I live, PUAs don't really work because gender equality is accepted as the norm.

 

Woman equality has generally not have been an issue. Nice guys general approve of womens equality. Most men are ok with women having the same equal powers as men. The problem is the courts and the laws often side with women.

 

Women prior to the streamline of technology and innovation DID not want equal rights. They did not want to be in factories, building cities and bridges or building train tracks. They mostly wanted to be at home being in comfortable enviroments. Many still do! Men were ok with it and women were ok with it.

 

Its when life is more streamline, that the drive for equality is pushed. Which is fine. I am all for womens rights and equality. But many still want the door open for them, a man to pay for dinner, they still want to be chased and have the perks of the 1940's and 50's. Not even knowing why they received these perks.

 

So with this equality you will be treated like an equal.... but if a woman is standing and a man is sitting, many feel the man must get up and offer his seat. This does not create an enviroment that a man is a gentlemen.. this created a enviroment of narcissism and entitlement. Many women now feel entitled + they want the equality. They want to be at a work site and have the creature comfort that, well im a female.. this is heavy so a guy has to do it. Btw.. i want equal pay. Is this true in the minds of all women... no because not all jobs require lifting.

 

But many women seem to think that there isnt number of women who exploit this.. there areva lot of women (and men) who do not want to do anything and try to as comfortable as possible and when you have a divorce... what easy way to live a little bit more comfortable by taking half of everything he has earned.

 

3rd wave feminist has pushed the new generation of men to grow up submissive to women. This biologically turns women off. Some men did not grow up submissive so they white knight in these threads not realizing these men grew up being passive like their mothers and sometimes like their fathers. The encoding in childhood has been programed so they automatically put women on a pedestal. Again this biologically pushes women away.

 

Again are women knock on the doors of nicr guys. NO.

 

So PUAs take advantage of these men... who have been rejected and give them enough ammo to get results and cash in.

 

The single mother, the female teacher, and society that tells him to put a woman first... make him finish last. He will constant try to provide and create a sense of comfort for women (walk on eggshells) as he was told growing up and the results will be a nice guy who is clingy and needy. He will be all lovey dovey and she will get turned off. He will be afraid to express his desires.

 

So PUAs point to the shaming of men brought on by 3rd wave feminist to why men are like this... i actually agree. Many women project thems selves as innocent creatures and are actally players and as sexually active as men.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Sweetfish

[Imajerk17]

Right. So many times the 'nice guy' rhetoric being rejected by women is that they fundamentally have issues with gender equality, which they feel threatened by. The PUA argument plays on the 'nice guys' insecurity by blasting how unfair and unacceptable it is for an educated woman to look for an equal, or how a guy taking on the SAHP role or is fine being a step-parent is somewhat less of a man. It's ok when women are SAHP, apparently.

 

The PUA material is based on the good old days when women knew their place and didn't want better for themselves.

 

Where I live, PUAs don't really work because gender equality is accepted as the norm.

 

 

Which may explain why guys are still largely expected to initiate and pay for dates (I am sure guys in your area initiate and pay for dates as well, "gender equality" and whatnot.)

 

My point is, when it comes to dating, the roles in the Mating Dance are decidedly NOT the same. In the workforce and in the classroom we may be equal and the same, but we sure as hell not when it comes to mating. The politically incorrect truth is that when it comes to dating, women still look to us to set the tone and lead the way. As a man you need to know how to lead and carry yourself....as a man. And, as said before, it is not really about having a good job, being good-looking, or even about being an interesting conversationalist and having a positive personality! (Although those things can help)

 

To answer your question in your post #79, indeed, the PUA Community indeed has a lot of shortcomings, including blind-leading-the-blind. I said about as much earlier. However, as I said previously, there seems to be hardly anywhere else struggling guys can turn to for advice. The point of my previous post was in fact how many of these guys feel let down by the "mainstream advice" given here.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Imajerk17

[CptInsano]

To answer your question in your post #79, indeed, the PUA Community indeed has a lot of shortcomings, including blind-leading-the-blind. I said about as much earlier. However, as I said previously, there seems to be hardly anywhere else struggling guys can turn to for advice. The point of my previous post was in fact how many of these guys feel let down by the "mainstream advice" given here.

 

The problem is that a canned response is not likely to help you, no matter if you label it "Mainstream" or "PUA".

 

You will like have to turn to somebody you trust IRL and ask for advice. Maybe your communication style is off, maybe your expectations are warped, maybe you are just locked into paralysis when you get close to your goal.

 

If there was a simple answer that applied generally I wouldn't write about it in this forum, but market the living daylights out of it.

 

How to attract women is as simple as a question as what women want. You ask two women, you get five answers.

[Imajerk17]

The problem is that a canned response is not likely to help you, no matter if you label it "Mainstream" or "PUA".

 

You will like have to turn to somebody you trust IRL and ask for advice. Maybe your communication style is off, maybe your expectations are warped, maybe you are just locked into paralysis when you get close to your goal.

 

If there was a simple answer that applied generally I wouldn't write about it in this forum, but market the living daylights out of it.

 

How to attract women is as simple as a question as what women want. You ask two women, you get five answers.

 

Absolutely, and it isn't even necessarily about *what you say* (with words that is). It is as much about body language, tonality...

 

You just won't get far parroting a script.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Imajerk17

[Sweetfish]

The problem is that a canned response is not likely to help you, no matter if you label it "Mainstream" or "PUA".

 

You will like have to turn to somebody you trust IRL and ask for advice. Maybe your communication style is off, maybe your expectations are warped, maybe you are just locked into paralysis when you get close to your goal.

 

If there was a simple answer that applied generally I wouldn't write about it in this forum, but market the living daylights out of it.

 

How to attract women is as simple as a question as what women want. You ask two women, you get five answers.

 

 

That fact that many men CANNOT be their true self and attract women is the PROOF in the pudding.

 

Being an average guy is not enough..

 

 

This is why these outlets exist..

 

They didnt not manifest for kicks.

[blockrockinbeat74]

6

 

Woman equality has generally not have been an issue. Nice guys general approve of womens equality. Most men are ok with women having the same equal powers as men. The problem is the courts and the laws often side with women.

 

Women prior to the streamline of technology and innovation DID not want equal rights. They did not want to be in factories, building cities and bridges or building train tracks. They mostly wanted to be at home being in comfortable enviroments. Many still do! Men were ok with it and women were ok with it.

 

Its when life is more streamline, that the drive for equality is pushed. Which is fine. I am all for womens rights and equality. But many still want the door open for them, a man to pay for dinner, they still want to be chased and have the perks of the 1940's and 50's. Not even knowing why they received these perks.

 

So with this equality you will be treated like an equal.... but if a woman is standing and a man is sitting, many feel the man must get up and offer his seat. This does not create an enviroment that a man is a gentlemen.. this created a enviroment of narcissism and entitlement. Many women now feel entitled + they want the equality. They want to be at a work site and have the creature comfort that, well im a female.. this is heavy so a guy has to do it. Btw.. i want equal pay. Is this true in the minds of all women... no because not all jobs require lifting.

 

But many women seem to think that there isnt number of women who exploit this.. there areva lot of women (and men) who do not want to do anything and try to as comfortable as possible and when you have a divorce... what easy way to live a little bit more comfortable by taking half of everything he has earned.

 

3rd wave feminist has pushed the new generation of men to grow up submissive to women. This biologically turns women off. Some men did not grow up submissive so they white knight in these threads not realizing these men grew up being passive like their mothers and sometimes like their fathers. The encoding in childhood has been programed so they automatically put women on a pedestal. Again this biologically pushes women away.

 

Again are women knock on the doors of nicr guys. NO.

 

So PUAs take advantage of these men... who have been rejected and give them enough ammo to get results and cash in.

 

The single mother, the female teacher, and society that tells him to put a woman first... make him finish last. He will constant try to provide and create a sense of comfort for women (walk on eggshells) as he was told growing up and the results will be a nice guy who is clingy and needy. He will be all lovey dovey and she will get turned off. He will be afraid to express his desires.

 

So PUAs point to the shaming of men brought on by 3rd wave feminist to why men are like this... i actually agree. Many women project thems selves as innocent creatures and are actally players and as sexually active as men.

 

I left a 12 year marriage to an abuser and got all his debts, never mind half of any of his assets. I didn't mind though, because what i got in return was freedom and my mental health back - I'm saying that because reading these ready-made answers about how divorced women get half of everything is more than tiresome. And men who take shared custody of their children pay zero, at least in terms of maintenance.

 

I'm lucky in that I'm highly educated and can find work relatively easily so I can look after myself and my kids without any help - 70 odd years ago, I'm probably have been stuck in this abusive marriage with no way out, or I would have had to go back to my parents for survival.

 

I thank gender equality for allowing women like me to do better for myself (and FYI, plenty of women did work in factories and other hard jobs, and maybe more would have done were men to look after the kids at home).

 

That's why PUA techniques won't wash with me. I also think entitlement and narcissism work both ways, in that men still feel entitled to the best women of the crop no matter what they themselves have to offer because they are failing to see that times have changed.

 

That said, I don't think that everyone is out to get everyone else; it just looks that way online.

 

With regards to where to turn for advice on how to attract women, observational skills and being relaxed about it all can help.

 

Imajerk17

Where I live, who pays for dates really isn't an issue. Gay couples seem to manage it just fine - maybe those who struggle with that can take a leaf out of their book?

[CptInsano]

That fact that many men CANNOT be their true self and attract women is the PROOF in the pudding.[...]

 

Why would that be a proof? They might exhibit characteristics that make them undatable, something a simple technique is not going to fix.

 

Being an average guy is not enough..

 

Of course it's not enough, as it is not only about who you are but also what you do. If you are unpleasant to be around, or if your expectations are unrealistic, then yes ... being an average guy is not enough.

 

This is why these outlets exist..

 

They didnt not manifest for kicks.

 

But that doesn't mean they work, or at least not for those who seek them out the most.

[Titanll]

Can someone please aware me of what average means?

 

Do PUAs exist or do PUA techniques work? In my opinion, if that crap works, it works on the kind of folks that I wouldn't be interested in meeting so no loss to me...

 

Gotta be careful where you step in this thread...lots of manure.

[Robert]

This thread has run its course. Thank you for your participation. ~6