PUAs ?? How effective is this?

[todreaminblue]

This statement was specifically for cookie as I have a general idea of her age and she has made comments that there are no decent guys so in its self that's a contradiction (as to how her friends acquired good decent guys if none are around). However, I want to respond to your statement as again I did not say attractive women who are educated are not capable of finding quality guys and never dictated anything as concrete.

 

Attractive educated women have a harder time finding a man and this is actually progressively getting worse specially in the united states. Many women will not look for men below their education or below their annual income and/or men will not date them. Educated and attractive women will also will use Online dating as a method of dating which is a cesspool in its self already filled with fakes and catfishes. I'm also curious to know if these guys are with the same fiscal/education bracket as they women and do any of the men make less than the women they are married to... (water seeks its own level)

 

Attractive women and Educated women are lease approached by men because many men are not confident to approach these women. Some women as they get older and reach 30-35 the insecurity grows and become more vulnerable. Pull away the educated part and they are more vulnerable.

 

Some of these PUA type guys I've seen them and they are good...really good and they will gain her trust and use her... I've seen it done many many many times. Why...because men never approach them and they do..they do not know they are a PUA and maybe your confusing PUA with just some typical guy trying to get laid you see in the clubs or bars.. but a PUA will not try to sex you up or get laid on the spot...he will NOT appear creepy so your way off.

 

I think you do not know what a PUA is... I think your way off.. maybe copycats or rookies. Skimming the internet for 30 minutes and now there are PUAs everywhere? You may have never ran into a PUA. Did the guy tell you he was one? He had a PUA card or something or are you assuming? Trust me I've seen these guys and the most confidant women have been burn.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, so first all your friends are 8,9, and 10s. They all look like models and movie stars? Second most men do not equate numbers with IQ and mentality. Looks have a huge impact on a person in regards to nature and nurture. That's absolutely absurd to say there is no correlation or effect.

 

 

 

if anything...cosmo and redbook are WORSE and if anything is beyond fair.

 

 

 

 

 

 

yes.. add some yoga articles and grandma's chicken pot pie recipes and its all fair. Really?

 

dont knock the chicken pot pie ok......i made my ex crazy by my mustard herb reduction served over slow roasted pork medallions...i melted his cold tired heart with a perfect creme brulee....and won his fevered kisses with lemon poached chicken and rice soup when he was sick..there's magic in food and if you can rest your foot on the over head cupboard (vertical leg split)while stirring a pot of bubbling soup...i think most men would be ....appreciative.....in my experience.....they are....thats exactly what i need i reckon....more yoga again and chicken pot pie.......deb

Edited March 23, 2017 by todreaminblue

[Cookiesandough]

dont knock the chicken pot pie ok......i made my ex crazy by my mustard herb reduction served over slow roasted pork medallions...i melted his cold tired heart with a perfect creme brulee....and won his fevered kisses with lemon poached chicken and rice soup when he was sick..there's magic in food and if you can rest your foot on the over head cupboard (vertical leg split)while stirring a pot of bubbling soup...i think most men would be ....appreciative.....in my experience.....they are....thats exactly what i need i reckon....more yoga again and chicken pot pie.......deb

 

Hahaha. I know right? Guys are so clueless. Thinking chicken pot pie is innocuous. They're so unaware women have been using it for ages to trap men. Get a vulnerable, hungry man and make him think you made him a chicken pot pie because you actually like him hahaha.. I like to put a ton of celery in it to raise his testosterone and libido and get him to give "it" up sooner, then I never call him again if he's a 5 or 6 and low value. Calibrate the amount of celery you use in accordance with his SMV( if he's 9 or 10 you may need to use more.) Cook a good enough pot pie with that perfectly flaky golden brown crust and you can even get him to wife you and then take him to the cleaners! My mom always told me to start screwing up the ingredients after you've locked him down i.e. caught your prey so he's pretty much forced to leave. Makes it look and feel like it was his decision all along. But shhh let's not give away all our secrets. Darn Cosmo. Always giving the best advice away.

 

And sweetfish, I never said I couldn't find any decent men. I said I can't find any men (at the moment) I'm attracted to on the inside and out and it's not because I'm picky or looking for any of the stereotypical things men think women are looking for. In fact, if I was looking for that I'd have it a lot easier...

Edited March 23, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[CptInsano]

There is garbage on both ends Cookiesandough.

 

The self help industry is alive and well. Heck, I have seen the online vitamin business from the inside. ("If you don't take vitamin XYZ you will slowly rot from the inside.") Fear-based marketing works, even if you just appeal to the fear of missing out or being unable to compete.

 

But I would not go as far as to claim that large parts of the population believe in these schemes. Nor does the pervasiveness of theses schemes make them any better.

[CptInsano]

Hahaha. I know right? Guys are so clueless. Thinking chicken pot pie is innocuous. They're so unaware women have been using it for ages to trap men. Get a vulnerable, hungry man and make him think you made him a chicken pot pie because you actually like him hahaha.. I like to put a ton of celery in it to raise his testosterone and libido and get him to give "it" up sooner, then I never call him again if he's a 5 or 6 and low value. Calibrate the amount of celery you use in accordance with his SMV( if he's 9 or 10 you may need to use more.) Cook a good enough pot pie with that perfectly flaky golden brown crust and you can even get him to wife you and then take him to the cleaners! My mom always told me to start screwing up the ingredients after you've locked him down i.e. caught your prey so he's pretty much forced to leave. Makes it look and feel like it was his decision all along. But shhh let's not give away all our secrets. Darn Cosmo. Always giving the best advice away.

 

And so the vast chicken pot pie conspiracy was revealed. I knew it all along...

[CaliforniaGirl]

 

 

 

 

Ok, so first all your friends are 8,9, and 10s. They all look like models and movie stars?

 

I do not know A SINGLE person who literally looks like a model or movie star who has no options (GREAT options, in fact) for dating. If you're talking about "model or movie star" looks as your 8-10 category, I have never, in 49 years, seen your theory of 8s-10s accepting some ugly guy negging them because other guys are afraid of approaching them, pan out. Believe me. When a woman is THAT good looking, somebody gets up the nerve in there. Pretty much daily.

 

And although you were asking Cookie this question - intimating that she may not realize what a model or movie star looks like - I do. I live in freakin' Los Angeles. Yes, I for one do know women who literally could be models and/or movie stars. I know women who have had parts and the like, as well. I know former models (I'm older, not many women stay models in my age group). Literally. When you are absolutely amazing-looking and have talent or think you do, here is where you leave your little home town to move to.

 

Not one of the amazingly beautiful (drop-dead) women I've known since moving here 12 years ago has ever expressed having had trouble at any point getting a date.

 

The PUA promises are laughable.

 

Unless you're saying they do work? You personally are kinda fugly, and "pull" movie stars regularly?

[CaliforniaGirl]

The self help industry is alive and well. Heck, I have seen the online vitamin business from the inside. ("If you don't take vitamin XYZ you will slowly rot from the inside.") Fear-based marketing works, even if you just appeal to the fear of missing out or being unable to compete.

 

But I would not go as far as to claim that large parts of the population believe in these schemes. Nor does the pervasiveness of theses schemes make them any better.

 

You're always so reasonable. I really enjoy your posts.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Hahaha. I know right? Guys are so clueless. Thinking chicken pot pie is innocuous. They're so unaware women have been using it for ages to trap men. Get a vulnerable, hungry man and make him think you made him a chicken pot pie because you actually like him hahaha.. I like to put a ton of celery in it to raise his testosterone and libido and get him to give "it" up sooner, then I never call him again if he's a 5 or 6 and low value. Calibrate the amount of celery you use in accordance with his SMV( if he's 9 or 10 you may need to use more.) Cook a good enough pot pie with that perfectly flaky golden brown crust and you can even get him to wife you and then take him to the cleaners! My mom always told me to start screwing up the ingredients after you've locked him down i.e. caught your prey so he's pretty much forced to leave. Makes it look and feel like it was his decision all along. But shhh let's not give away all our secrets. Darn Cosmo. Always giving the best advice away.

 

And sweetfish, I never said I couldn't find any decent men. I said I can't find any men (at the moment) I'm attracted to on the inside and out and it's not because I'm picky or looking for any of the stereotypical things men think women are looking for. In fact, if I was looking for that I'd have it a lot easier...

 

My mama always said: keep his stomach full and his (testicles) empty.

 

Also, FWIW, I got what you were saying about decent men (although I do think the majority of men are decent people). You were saying the AVAILABLE pool for you hasn't yielded what you consider decent men. This actually doesn't at all contradict your saying that your married male friends are decent. They were decent, your beautiful friends wanted that, and married them.

[Imajerk17]

Well said @Moves Like Jagger (post #46). I was shy growing up and struggled making connections with people. Like a lot of left-brain-oriented guys, I was a master of "nice" logical conversations that might have impressed the girl's grandma but did not lead to attraction or connection with the girl herself. And so on that note, I'd never tell a guy who is struggling with women to "just be jerself" or "be confident" because the truth is, that advice just doesn't work for the guys who are struggling. Guys in that situation need more specific help than that.

 

However, I'd also advise guys to be careful with PUA advice, because it can make you even WORSE off than before. If you aren't careful, you can go from being viewed as socially awkward to being viewed as downright creepy. Guys who have trouble with social cues will make mistakes ranging from "negging" someone about something they are sensitive about, to weirding a woman out with a comment they think is "edgy" but is instead violating, to awkwardly touching someone in a way too intimate place, even to coming across like a douche by trying to DHV (Display Higher Value) ect.

 

Also, the way PUAs think how men and women get together--man attracts woman by Displaying Higher Value--is, for better or worse, quite often NOT how it really ends up happening. Sometimes it is more like the opposite. There is many, many a woman out there who has fallen in love with a man with plenty of problems--and not because his game was airtight, but instead because he talked about his life as it is and she connected with him. Read the threads on here written by the women to see for yourself.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Imajerk17

[CaliforniaGirl]

 

I think you do not know what a PUA is... I think your way off.. (snip)

 

Sweet...in reality, I think most of us do know what a PUA basically is, or what used to be and sometimes still is called a "player." Even farther back than that he'd be called a "pickup artist" and back from that, "a ladies' man." This sort of thing is not new.

 

Everybody knows about guys who can get you-know when they want it, where they want it. We also know THEY'RE RARE. They're a minority among the male population as a whole. And we women especially very, very, very well know the painful, cringeworthy "wannabe" guy who has read up on game and is very obviously using it. Badly. HE thinks it's not obvious. He truly does. You can tell by the mystified look on his face when you, the approached (or should I say victim? LOL) kind of scuddles backward away from him, trying not to make any sudden moves while desperately looking for an escape route.

 

We all know who that extra-special, magical SMALL percentage of what you call "PUA" (in your own definition) men is. Just like that extra-special, magical, apparently extremely lucky/gifted, small percentage of any very above the ordinary individual in any way (sports, music, intelligence, whatever), the group will remain small and unique but legions of hopefuls will continue to pour money and their hearts into programs "guaranteed" to turn them into part of that minority. And just like with people who think they're going to be basketball stars, musicians or win world chess matches, MOST will be disappointed because you can practice, you can hope, you can dream, you can learn some skills but there are just some things that most people can't do as part of the top-tier.

 

The problem? Most of the guys who talk about PUA at least publicly (and there are a lot of them, God bless the internet) DO expect to be in that top tier. They don't want to learn just basic relationship skills. They don't want to better themselves. They don't want to get a *good* woman and relationship. They were promised the whole enchilada - limitless kitty from "9s!!!!" - and dagnab it, that is what they're expecting. Then they don't get it and...whoa. The bitterness and anger.

 

Now. Saying the most amazing, influential people and the most talented at anything (yes, even at "game") are a minority, is not pessimism. I, for one, play the violin. I'm not world-class. I never will be. Will I ever stop? Hell no! I looooooooove it! At the same time, when I realize at yet another practice (I practice at least 4-6 times a week) that I'm not Perlman yet (whaaaaat?), I don't rage against the violin itself and throw it against the wall...meanwhile *protecting* the "you're guaranteed to play like a pro if you buy MY secrets!" scams with protestations of, "they really do work...it's the violin's fault. It can't be my fault and it can't be the fault of the program I just dumped money into. It's the damned violin's fault. If only violins would 'get played' better I wouldn't HAVE to be this angry."

 

But with PUA....that's generally what happens, from my observation. All these pimply game-less guys raging AGAINST THE WOMEN for the PROGRAMS having lied, and having failed them. If you can't see why that's dangerous, and harmful to relationships in general and bitterness-engendering and harmful to the poor saps themselves, then I don't know what to tell you.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Well said @Moves Like Jagger (post #46). I was shy growing up and struggled making connections with people. Like a lot of left-brain-oriented guys, I was a master of "nice" logical conversations that might have impressed the girl's grandma but did not lead to attraction or connection with the girl herself. And so on that note, I'd never tell a guy who is struggling with women to "just be jerself" or "be confident" because the truth is, that advice just doesn't work for the guys who are struggling. Guys in that situation need more specific help than that.

 

However, I'd also advise guys to be careful with PUA advice, because it can make you even WORSE off than before. If you aren't careful, you can go from being viewed as socially awkward to being viewed as downright creepy. Guys who have trouble with social cues will make mistakes ranging from "negging" someone about something they are sensitive about, to weirding a woman out with a comment they think is "edgy" but is instead violating, to awkwardly touching someone in a way too intimate place, even to coming across like a douche by trying to DHV (Display Higher Value) ect.

 

Also, the way PUAs think how men and women get together--man attracts woman by Displaying Higher Value--is, for better or worse, quite often NOT how it really ends up happening. Sometimes it is more like the opposite. There is many, many a woman out there who has fallen in love with a man with plenty of problems--and not because his game was airtight, but instead because he talked about his life as it is and she connected with him. Read the threads on here written by the women to see for yourself.

 

Yes! Exactly!

 

Many people do need to get "better at" interacting with the opposite sex. That's just a given. Most of us have bumps along that road - men and women alike. There's no crime in that.

 

BUT to swing totally the opposite way, to something like PUA, is so bizarre and has the pitfalls you've described.

 

There's no middle ground? I keep hearing some guys here protest, "Oh, so the guy's just supposed to keep getting walked over, stay overweight, not know how to make conversation..." No, duh, of course he should try to better himself, but saying "it's this or PUA" is so bizarre. One can better oneself, be more attractive, fun, sexy, etc. without performing some sort of uber-manipulation gymnastics aimed at fooling the opposite sex. Good gosh. Extremes much...

[WaitingForBardot]

My mama always said: keep his stomach full and his (testicles) empty.

/..snip../

A wise woman indeed. And judging by your posts, you didn't fall far from the tree...

 

/..snip../ The problem? Most of the guys who talk about PUA at least publicly (and there are a lot of them, God bless the internet) DO expect to be in that top tier. They don't want to learn just basic relationship skills. They don't want to better themselves. They don't want to get a *good* woman and relationship. They were promised the whole enchilada - limitless kitty from "9s!!!!" - and dagnab it, that is what they're expecting. Then they don't get it and...whoa. The bitterness and anger.

/..snip../

Bingo. And if I may paraphrase from another milieu...

 

There is no such thing as "advanced PUA skills", only perfect execution of fundamental relationship skills under stress.

[NuevoYorko]

Is that really still a thing? I thought it was gone a decade ago, but I suppose there are always those who cling on to amusing concepts from days gone by. I suggest you use this as an elimination tool, since you seem to be wise to it. Men who resort to silly games obviously have some issues, which hopefully will be resolved as they mature.

[Cookiesandough]

]My mama always said: keep his stomach full and his (testicles) empty.

 

Also, FWIW, I got what you were saying about decent men (although I do think the majority of men are decent people). You were saying the AVAILABLE pool for you hasn't yielded what you consider decent men. This actually doesn't at all contradict your saying that your married male friends are decent. They were decent, your beautiful friends wanted that, and married them.

 

 

Haha I love it.

 

 

Yeah, exactly. And almost all the men I've been on dates with I'd consider decent...all my friends bf and dhubz...just aren't for me/my type. Ty

[basil67]

I think that if a guy who was struggling with dating sought help from a Dating Coach who used respect for women as an underlying principal, he would receive only support.

 

While PUA may have some good principles, there are also attributes which are blatantly disrespectful to women. And the men who extol the virtues of PUA are often misogynistic. The name of the program alone is obnoxious.

 

I think that some guys really do need support and coaching in this area. They just need to be careful who they seek support from.

[Cookiesandough]

I wanna add some information to this thread, because after some research, I'm noticing a correlation between PUA/red pill men and being damaged/hurt by women.

 

The guys who turn to these ideologies have most likely been A) Had a horrible relationship experience /break up/ divorce where they were either dumped or had some other (they feel) horrible thing done to them by a woman (was cheated on, given an ultimatum, abused, etc) or B) have been continuously rejected by women or suffered one traumatic rejection

 

They turn to this for refuge. I feel bad for them now. Tolerance and understanding go hand in hand. I just do not agree with the way they chose. It isn't healthy.

[d0nnivain]

Reduced to the very basics, PUA is about confidence & self esteem. For whatever reason people who gravitate to this stuff (for women it's books like The Rules, you know don't accept a date after Wednesday kind of drivel) lack both. To the extent that nobody takes them as gospel but instead finds the strength to stick up for themselves they have a purpose. Alas most people just end up throwing good money after bad & never learn how to care for themselves

[Woggle]

I wanna add some information to this thread, because after some research, I'm noticing a correlation between PUA/red pill men and being damaged/hurt by women.

 

The guys who turn to these ideologies have most likely been A) Had a horrible relationship experience /break up/ divorce where they were either dumped or had some other (they feel) horrible thing done to them by a woman (was cheated on, given an ultimatum, abused, etc) or B) have been continuously rejected by women or suffered one traumatic rejection

 

They turn to this for refuge. I feel bad for them now. Tolerance and understanding go hand in hand. I just do not agree with the way they chose. It isn't healthy.

 

Hurt people tend to hurt people. Being through the ringer tends to make people bitter. I have been there eminem myself and am glad I broke out of it.

[Sweetfish]

I wanna add some information to this thread, because after some research, I'm noticing a correlation between PUA/red pill men and being damaged/hurt by women.

 

The guys who turn to these ideologies have most likely been A) Had a horrible relationship experience /break up/ divorce where they were either dumped or had some other (they feel) horrible thing done to them by a woman (was cheated on, given an ultimatum, abused, etc) or B) have been continuously rejected by women or suffered one traumatic rejection

 

They turn to this for refuge. I feel bad for them now. Tolerance and understanding go hand in hand. I just do not agree with the way they chose. It isn't healthy.

 

 

I told you this over and over again and you rejected this... Now your starting to see reality right?

 

PUA is the result of many women not accepting men on a basic level.... They need MORE... SO they look to other outlets to gain results.

 

 

You say it unhealthy...but this is where they go to. You don't agree with it so what does one do when the results are the same results over and over again?

[todreaminblue]

For me, the objection isn't because I think they want to bed many girls. I suspect many guys who employ PUA techniques just want to get a girlfriend and are looking to improve their technique. (Just as you've described)

 

The thing which many object to are the insidious techniques which the men are taught. Here's an article describing the techniques to women and strategies they can use to avoid the men who are using PUA methods. An Easy Guide to Fending Off Pick Up Artists

 

I particularly like the suggestion of the girl farting if she finds herself pulled into the lap of a PUA

 

I particularly like the suggestion of the girl farting if she finds herself pulled into the lap of a PUA :

 

i read it ....giggled my butt off...gonna do it..especially the fancy girl one....classic......farting ....hee hee....ahem....ahh needed that laff....deb

[basil67]

I told you this over and over again and you rejected this... Now your starting to see reality right?

 

PUA is the result of many women not accepting men on a basic level.... They need MORE... SO they look to other outlets to gain results.

 

 

You say it unhealthy...but this is where they go to. You don't agree with it so what does one do when the results are the same results over and over again?

 

Unfortunately, some of the PUA teachings are rooted in misogyny, so these guys end up in that hateful sphere and only further lower themselves in the eyes of women. PUA teacher Jeff Allen failed Australia's character test and had his visa cancelled when he was coming here to do shows. It's a shame that some men turn to guys like this and come out even worse.

[basil67]

Instead of getting mentored and correcting their mistakes, these guys are advised to be patient and to just be yourself. Not surprisingly, these socially awkward guys misinterpret being yourself as making the same mistakes over and over again instead of being genuine and authentic.

 

I frequently see the opposite of this here. So often guys who can't get dates come here for help. And we do give suggestions. Or we tell them how their thoughts reflect on themselves and that it could be putting out a negative vibe.

 

But it can be like talking to a brick wall at times. They will defend their own behaviour and attitudes to the nth degree while criticising all women as being X and Y (as if all we women think and do the same thing). If a guy wants help, he needs to be able to take in the advice he gets.

[Sweetfish]

Unfortunately, some of the PUA teachings are rooted in misogyny, so these guys end up in that hateful sphere and only further lower themselves in the eyes of women. PUA teacher Jeff Allen failed Australia's character test and had his visa cancelled when he was coming here to do shows. It's a shame that some men turn to guys like this and come out even worse.

 

I agree 100%... but men are being told by women how they want to be treated and they do it and they are rejected. They are teaching men a fantasy... i met one female who is a college major and you know what she told me? She is a hopeless romantic who wants to be romanced like in the movies. Thats another interesting thing.. most women are not romantic... they want to receive romance and this is another form entitlement that women crave that ironically they reject a man for being.

 

Once this man is romantic, many women cannot reciprocate his romance and will find him clingy, needy, or codepedant.

 

So once a man is in his 20's 30's or 40's and meets with rejection and failure... he will graviate to other methods. If he was molded into a nice guy "a gentleman" from childhood he may become jaded or broken. Hence why i say single men in their 40's and 50's is slim picking. That is why women who blow off decent men in their 20's and 30's in search of greater is playing a fantasy game. Women who get it.. will get the decent men. Women who don't get it create "its hard to date over 35"

 

Thats because you look like Meg Ryan now and men are looking at Kim K.

 

This is reality.. it sucks, but its true.

 

Do I want it this way.. No

 

Am I angry or jaded.. No

 

I just believe its slim pickings to find the right person and I've seen many men and women blow off these slim pickings in search for greater... I laugh because I dont think there is much out there.

[Sweetfish]

I frequently see the opposite of this here. So often guys who can't get dates come here for help. And we do give suggestions. Or we tell them how their thoughts reflect on themselves and that it could be putting out a negative vibe.

 

But it can be like talking to a brick wall at times. They will defend their own behaviour and attitudes to the nth degree while criticising all women as being X and Y (as if all we women think and do the same thing). If a guy wants help, he needs to be able to take in the advice he gets.

 

 

I disagree..

 

How can you give advice...if you're saying most women are not X and Y? If everyone is so different then how can you advise??

 

You just pretty much put your foot in your mouth by saying all women are pretty much not X and Y... followed by saying men are like talking to a brick wall.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Sweetfish

[Haydn]

I frequently see the opposite of this here. So often guys who can't get dates come here for help. And we do give suggestions. Or we tell them how their thoughts reflect on themselves and that it could be putting out a negative vibe.

 

But it can be like talking to a brick wall at times. They will defend their own behaviour and attitudes to the nth degree while criticising all women as being X and Y (as if all we women think and do the same thing). If a guy wants help, he needs to be able to take in the advice he gets.

 

 

Thanks for that Basil. Some slightly bitter blokes here who assume everything is the fault of women. Not true at all.

[basil67]

I disagree..

 

How can you give advice...if you're saying most women are not X and Y? If everyone is so different then how can you advise??

 

You just pretty much put your foot in your mouth by saying all women are pretty much not X and Y... followed by saying men are like talking to a brick wall.

 

You've taken me completely out of context.

 

I wrote <<I said So oftenguys who can't get dates come here for help. And we do give suggestions. Or we tell them how their thoughts reflect on themselves and that it could be putting out a negative vibe.

 

But it can be like talking to a brick wall at times. They will defend their own behaviour and attitudes to the nth degree while criticising all women as being X and Y (as if all we women think and do the same thing). If a guy wants help, he needs to be able to take in the advice he gets.<<

 

Note that I only referred to the guy who can't get girlfriends who sometimes come here. And I used words such as "it can be" and "at times". This is a far cry from saying "men are like talking to a brick wall".