"Ghosting" where is the line?

[basil67]

She ghosted him a while ago... I stepped in to help reopen communication (and it did work for a bit) because he was pretty stressed. (and rightfully so) There was no break up... She ghosted him, remember?

 

Just because you are not bound by verbal commitment doesn't mean that person is completely insignificant and their efforts during the time they were together count for nothing. It may not be a rule "Thou must care about thy ex", but it sure says something about her character. While they were talking she kept saying how much she cared about him and what a great person she was... Words without behavior to back them up are just air.

 

She knew he was ill because of the stress she was putting him through. Like I said, she has a similar condition and knows how stress affects her. She knew ghosting him would hurt him. She said it herself.

 

True there are limitations to obligations that you have to an ex. (Asking for a ride to the airport is pushing it Lol) I'm not saying there isn't. But caring about a lovers well-being after the fact is not a big ask of another human being. Especially when she knows she is causing said issues and ghosts him again when she finds out he is in distress.

 

One could define the opposite of ghosting is respecting. Nothing about her behavior screams out respect to me.

 

OK, I get it now. The post I was replying to wasn't clear about the timeline. This is "Kelly and Taylor" from your previous thread, yes?

 

Yes, Kelly was wrong to ghost on Taylor. But Taylor ignored so many warning signs of her being in a bad place to be dating.

 

I do maintain that if Kelly didn't want to get back together with Taylor, it was not wrong to avoid him in hospital. Yes, there was all that yada yada yada about staying friends, but relationships break friendships. And frankly, Taylor absolutely should have cut Kelly off for her ghosting.

 

I strongly suggest you cease "helping" with their relationship. All you're doing is dragging someone who you admit is disrespectful into the life of another who has poor boundaries as to acceptable behaviour.

[LilAddison]

Kelly is broken. Taylor is a doormat who needs to learn that he/she cannot fix other people. And you need to stop interfering.

 

A doormat? Lol You clearly don't know Taylor. Taylor didn't try to fix anyone. Not sure where you got that from.

Just fyi both of them asked me to mediate. It is what I do for a living. Quite successfully I might add. I admittedly have very little experiencing with ghosting. (or the principals of behavior surrounding it) The couples I counsel are at the end of their rope, but the rope isn't quite broken yet.

The reasons things have broken down again are not due to interference. Just bad behavior on one side of things.

[LilAddison]

You recently started a thread where Kelly ghosted on Taylor. That wasn't a great relationship. Kelly was a hot mess and Taylor seemed to think he could help her.

 

Or are you now talking about someone else again?

 

Apologies... I crossed my threads. Lol It's been a long day! Lol

[LilAddison]

OK, I get it now. The post I was replying to wasn't clear about the timeline. This is "Kelly and Taylor" from your previous thread, yes?

 

Yes, Kelly was wrong to ghost on Taylor. But Taylor ignored so many warning signs of her being in a bad place to be dating.

 

I do maintain that if Kelly didn't want to get back together with Taylor, it was not wrong to avoid him in hospital. Yes, there was all that yada yada yada about staying friends, but relationships break friendships. And frankly, Taylor absolutely should have cut Kelly off for her ghosting.

 

I strongly suggest you cease "helping" with their relationship. All you're doing is dragging someone who you admit is disrespectful into the life of another who has poor boundaries as to acceptable behaviour.

 

I suggest you read it again. There were no warning signs. Once communication was reopened they both discovered a few things they were doing wrong. Kelly took off on a misunderstanding the 1st time, but there are no misunderstandings the 2nd time.

 

There are some details missing. I did say I was leaving out the he-said-she-said stuff. Kelly was screwing with Taylor sending pics, emails, messages through friends, etc. Taylor did not respond for about 5 months. I'm afraid the stress was a bit too much though. I think I mentioned that Taylor has HES? (Not sure if I mentioned that?) When a friends health is affected to the point of internal bleeding, sepsis, dramatic weight loss, doctors hitting the panic button and depression issues... Damn right I step in. Taylor didn't deserve this and will suffer in silence instead of trying to fix Kelly or even get resolution. I wish I didn't need to get involved, but If I can understand this process and in turn help Taylor... It's the least I can do.

[basil67]

A doormat? Lol You clearly don't know Taylor. Taylor didn't try to fix anyone. Not sure where you got that from.

Just fyi both of them asked me to mediate. It is what I do for a living. Quite successfully I might add. I admittedly have very little experiencing with ghosting. (or the principals of behavior surrounding it) The couples I counsel are at the end of their rope, but the rope isn't quite broken yet.

The reasons things have broken down again are not due to interference. Just bad behavior on one side of things.

 

I got my opinion on Taylor from the first thread you wrote. Kelly was a mess. Unstable, talking about her ex all the time. Taylor trying to fix her. Taylor giving her second chances after her ghosting. Early on, I said that I'd go No Contact if someone ghosted on me. That's what Taylor should have done. It would have saved him a huge amount of drama.

 

If you're a professional mediator, I would stick to doing it professionally. Don't get involved with friends. Especially if it's involving pulling together two people where one of them is showing consistently unhealthy behaviour.

[LilAddison]

Folks, moderation merged two threads with similar content with no deletions so there may be some overlapping or duplicate content. Please continue the discussion on this breakup and related content in this thread. Thanks!

 

Sorry Will... That was my fault. Too many windows opened at once. I'll keep that r'ship issue off this thread. Sorry!

[LilAddison]

I got my opinion on Taylor from the first thread you wrote. Kelly was a mess. Unstable, talking about her ex all the time. Taylor trying to fix her. Taylor giving her second chances after her ghosting. Early on, I said that I'd go No Contact if someone ghosted on me. That's what Taylor should have done. It would have saved him a huge amount of drama.

 

If you're a professional mediator, I would stick to doing it professionally. Don't get involved with friends. Especially if it's involving pulling together two people where one of them is showing consistently unhealthy behaviour.

 

As a woman, I can say this with a lot of confidence... Show me a woman in a r'ship who isn't a mess?! Lol

Don't forget I didn't get involved until well after the ghosting happened. I simply supported a friend. If Taylor had done something wrong, trust me, I would have been the first one to rip into them about anything that would be considered "poor r'ship behavior". My hope was getting them to talk... Nothing was going to get sorted out until they did. Doing nothing clearly wasn't working. Know what i mean?

Anyway, we're on the wrong thread and I already had to apologize to a mod. We better cut this off.

[basil67]

As a woman, I can say this with a lot of confidence... Show me a woman in a r'ship who isn't a mess?! Lol

Don't forget I didn't get involved until well after the ghosting happened. I simply supported a friend. If Taylor had done something wrong, trust me, I would have been the first one to rip into them about anything that would be considered "poor r'ship behavior". My hope was getting them to talk... Nothing was going to get sorted out until they did. Doing nothing clearly wasn't working. Know what i mean?

Anyway, we're on the wrong thread and I already had to apologize to a mod. We better cut this off.

 

You've done nothing wrong on the threads. No apologies were necessary. The mods merged the threads because they were the same topic by the same person. It's customary around here. Both conversations are now intertwined.

 

I'm a woman. I know a lot of women in relationships who aren't a mess. Sure, nobody is a robot who functions flawlessly every day, but I wouldn't suggest that being a 'mess' is a thing which all women are. Just some, like Kelly.

 

I wasn't aware that you came on the scene after the ghosting. I think the best support you could have given Taylor was to tell him he deserved better than Kelly and to cut her out of his life. Tell him that it would hurt for while, but he deserves a woman who treats him well and who will be there for him.

[allybaba789]

Scenario: Your partner disappears on you after 7 months together for what appears to be no reason. (There was no fight. No "big" problems and things were going very well according to both people) Months later your partner finally starts talking. Their primary communication is to lunge at you with a pretty serious accusation of a behavior that is not indicative of something you would ever do. (or have ever done in the past) Would you be upset by this?

Of course I'd be upset by this, I'm a human. Human's don't like being ignored. I would not have listened to any of the bull**** that came from him afterwards and would have told him to F*** off. If the behaviour he was making accusations of never happened, he is lying. I don't have time for liars. If it is a misunderstanding I would have emphasised that point, but also that this could have been sorted if the conversation was had at the time and I don't want to continue down this route.

 

Is it ever ok (acceptable behavior) to just disappear in an established relationship without a word and ignore any attempt (by your partner) to communicate?

I hold the opinion that once you have met in person, even if it is just one date, it is courtesy to not ignore someone and say you do not want to meet up again if that is the case. This only holds true if the person they do not want to see again is reaching out. It's OK if the two people never speak again.

 

In an established relationship I think it is an absolutely horrible thing to do, and I feel for anyone who has gone through that. It's saying 'you aren't even worth a conversation'. I'm sure people have their reasons such as running away from their problems, not wanting to face the situation etc., but to me it is NEVER OK. I feel very strongly that ignoring is indicative of someone who is capable of abuse. I think in any situation (friendships, work colleagues, love interests) blatent ignoring is never OK. It's a form of punishment and anyone who has looked into abusive relationships will understand this. The only instance where blatent ignoring is OK is if you have told the person you will not be contacting them again, as you have set that expectation and they at least know where they stand.

 

If you were the one given the silent treatment by your partner, would you call out your partner/friend on their disloyalty if the silence continued despite your efforts? Is disappearing in silence like this disrespectful and intentionally hurtful in your opinion?

I wouldn't confront them out of the blue on this issue but if they were trying to talk to me again I would say I don't want anything to do with someone who thinks the silent treatment is acceptable behaviour. It's childish.

 

Should your behavior throughout the r'ship count towards the way your partner treats you? (How and why they leave you) If the truth is different than what they believed; should that change the way they communicate with you?

Yes, past behaviour will indicate how you are treated. However, this is a weird scenario where you are saying he made something up/assumed wrong about a behaviour. That of course is not OK. Stay away from people who distort reality.

[Apple1977]

yes where is the line my partner of 3 years cheated on me I forgave her then we had a fall out because I called her a cheat out of anger and she just dumped me via text and cut me off that was 5 weeks ago never seen or heard from her again wtf is that all about ?

[bluefeather]

she just dumped me via text and cut me off that was 5 weeks ago never seen or heard from her again wtf is that all about ?

 

If she dumped you via text, that is at least a message of closure, and is not ghosting.

[LilAddison]

You've done nothing wrong on the threads. No apologies were necessary.

 

I wasn't aware that you came on the scene after the ghosting. I think the best support you could have given Taylor was to tell him he deserved better than Kelly and to cut her out of his life. Tell him that it would hurt for while, but he deserves a woman who treats him well and who will be there for him.

 

Ok, phew. Once I realized what happened it was too late to delete it it. I felt (and looked) like a noob! Lol

 

I did have many conversations with Taylor, but I had to instigate each time. Taylor is like a silently crumbling building. Won't speak a word because he/she doesn't want to impose on others. I know well enough when to intercede and when to back off. I could tell Taylor was not dealing with the silence well and was internalizing it to extremes. It's so cruel to do that to someone you care about. =( Having HES creates wild emotional conditions that are hard to contain.

I'm starting to rationalize the things Kelly did a bit better now [after listening to people on here] and I wish I could tell you the behavior is making more sense. =/

I don't know how Taylor is supposed to react to this. It is clear that NC is step one and thus far it has been maintained except for once [you're not going to believe this, but Taylor wished Kelly a happy birthday] After all the crap from Kelly, Taylor still nutted-up and did the right thing for another instead of putting himself first. =( I got mad that happened. Taylor told me what it felt like when Kelly forgot his/her birthday and the hurt it caused. "If that's the way Kelly thinks I deserve to be treated, then so be it. I won't be part of the problem out of spite or pettiness." As far as I know, Taylor has gone back to NC 100%. I guess it's like most other things... People will slip up or cave in during the process.

[LilAddison]

If she dumped you via text, that is at least a message of closure, and is not ghosting.

 

While Blue is technically correct, it doesn't change the fact that text dumping is as childish as ghosting. Especially in an established r'ship. 2 dates? That's different.

 

Another of my friends had that happen after 18 months. He was not amused! She outright refused to see him or even speak on the phone... Her rationality was that they communicated mostly by text [outside of in person] so texting the BU was acceptable. Yes, she was a social moron. Lol

[jorgeg3d]

I don't think its ever right to ghost anyone, for any reason. Its childish and people need to know what is going on. Its probably the worst feeling in the world to not know why someone stopped talking to you.

 

I think its part of respect for someone, even if you don't respect them as much as you used to, its just common courtesy to not play with someones feelings like that. Always think, would I like it if it was done to me? If you're ok with it then well, maybe you've got your own issues to work with.

[LilAddison]

Of course I'd be upset by this, I'm a human. Human's don't like being ignored. I would not have listened to any of the bull**** that came from him afterwards and would have told him to F*** off. If the behaviour he was making accusations of never happened, he is lying. I don't have time for liars. If it is a misunderstanding I would have emphasised that point, but also that this could have been sorted if the conversation was had at the time and I don't want to continue down this route.

 

Ok, I probably should just drop the androgynous terminology because I think it's just confusing everyone. BUT, it is interesting that most have assumed the bad behavior in this unfortunate story came from the male. It didn't. Kelly is the female in this. Basil picked up on that... Good catch. Lol

I agree 110% this all could have been avoid if not filed away by now if Kelly just talked to him instead of ghosting.

 

In an established relationship I think it is an absolutely horrible thing to do, and I feel for anyone who has gone through that. It's saying 'you aren't even worth a conversation'. I'm sure people have their reasons such as running away from their problems, not wanting to face the situation etc., but to me it is NEVER OK.

 

+1 ^^^ I did confront Kelly as to why she did this. The response was silence. Go figure?!

 

I feel very strongly that ignoring is indicative of someone who is capable of abuse. I think in any situation (friendships, work colleagues, love interests) blatent ignoring is never OK. It's a form of punishment and anyone who has looked into abusive relationships will understand this.

 

The irony of this statement is I seem to be noticing that people who have done this to others have also had this done to them. Sometimes in extreme ways. As a conscious behavior it defines ghosting as a semi sociopathic behavior.

 

Yes, past behaviour will indicate how you are treated. However, this is a weird scenario where you are saying he made something up/assumed wrong about a behaviour. That of course is not OK. Stay away from people who distort reality.

 

Again the irony... She ghosted him and then made a wild and untrue accusation against him in her first correspondence. The story was flaky the way she described it. Once Taylor confronted the people involved, it was clear that it was an attack with the intent to hurt him, his character and to bring him down to her level. When confronted with the real facts about the accusation, she back-peddled and tried to make it seem like it was nothing. Nobody was hurt, she never told anyone, nobody thinks any worse of him... so no-harm-no-foul. I don't think Taylor felt that way. If you want to really insult a good man, call him a bad man... And then shame him for it. She doesn't get that what she did was even wrong. If the tables were turned, she would have lost her mind. 100% confidant on that!

[LilAddison]

The one question nobody has touched on so far is... A person who gets ghosted, be it after a month, 8 months, 2 years or more. How do you deal with it? There are obviously a lot of emotions and r'ship garbage you are left to deal with alone. The stress, second guessing yourself, a brutal hit to self esteem, depression, loneliness, etc...

I remember years ago I got dumped by someone. It was pretty unpleasant as most BU's are, but at least it was done to my face. I did have *some* closure and a large tub of ice cream to ease the sting a bit. On a friends advice I started to get over my ex partner by getting under a new one. Lol It did help... It was nice to feel desired after having my heart thrown in the blender.

 

Talking to Taylor... He has zero interest in women at all. None. It's been over 5 months since he has been with a woman. He tried to go on a date, but called it off early... He knew his "A-Game" wasn't present. So, he apologized to the girl and went home. His trust was already pretty sketchy (hence the reason he entered into this r'ship as FWB to start until trust developed) Well, needless to say that trust just got it's teeth knocked out again.

Suggestions?

Edited March 23, 2017 by LilAddison

[Popsicle]

You may have read my thread on this already.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/561619-ghosting-explained

[LilAddison]

You may have read my thread on this already.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/561619-ghosting-explained

 

Pretty good post. Thanks for that

[LilAddison]

The one question nobody has touched on so far is... A person who gets ghosted, be it after a month, 8 months, 2 years or more. How do you deal with it? There are obviously a lot of emotions and r'ship garbage you are left to deal with alone. The stress, second guessing yourself, a brutal hit to self esteem, depression, loneliness, etc...

I remember years ago I got dumped by someone. It was pretty unpleasant as most BU's are, but at least it was done to my face. I did have *some* closure and a large tub of ice cream to ease the sting a bit. On a friends advice I started to get over my ex partner by getting under a new one. Lol It did help... It was nice to feel desired after having my heart thrown in the blender.

 

Talking to Taylor... He has zero interest in women at all. None. It's been over 5 months since he has been with a woman. He tried to go on a date, but called it off early... He knew his "A-Game" wasn't present. So, he apologized to the girl and went home. His trust was already pretty sketchy (hence the reason he entered into this r'ship as FWB to start until trust developed) Well, needless to say that trust just got it's teeth knocked out again.

Suggestions?

 

Anyone have any ideas on this? It just happened to another friend of mine. 9 months into the r'ship, the girl just vanished with no explanation. Seriously, wtf is up with people these days? *sigh* Lol