how rare are 'decent' guys?

[Els]

Lots of men (and women) are decent. Obviously, the rare part is in finding someone who is decent, compatible, interested in you, AND fulfills your other criteria (appearance, age range, habits, hobbies, intellect, career, whatever). I don't see why this should be invalidating these women's complaints, as I doubt that the guys who complain that it's difficult to find a decent woman are considering the 70-yo kindly but obese widow living next door either.

 

I'd say that my exes (and SO, obviously) are all decent men, as are the majority of my platonic male friends or relatives.

[WaitingForBardot]

Where do u think women are getting the notion so many men are rotten? Experience teaches us.... it doesn't come from nowhere. If men don't like the attitude, they should be the change they want to see.

How large a cohort of men could you possibly have met/dated/had LTRs with, such that it would be representative of most men?

 

And, just for the sake of argument, let's say that you are correct, most men are rotten. How exactly am I, one individual man, supposed to be the change you want to see in all these rotten men?

[SevenCity]

It's a victim blaming society, though, isn't it?

 

I would venture a guess that most people are more cautious after heartbreak than before. It's not about blame, it about protecting yourself.

[Purepony]

Pish posh

Women have soooo many options just look at my ex... we break up after 6 years and she has 50 professional men fighting for her... models, ceos, "guys who own companies" etc etc

[Purepony]

There are plenty of decent guys, it's just that at my age, most if not all are taken. Contrary to the popular opinion, women do prefer them hence shortage of them on the dating market.

 

 

I don't see them making an effort if that's the case

[CaliforniaGirl]

Actually, decent guys are quite plentiful, but perfection is a bit rare. That's what drives some women crazy –– they're sure they deserve a prince, without having to kiss any frogs. Reality is very cruel to the fairy tale set.

 

Let's not be silly and make this statement (about certain, not all women) without adding that this is FAR from gender-slanted; (certain, not all) men seem to think they "deserve" a younger women who is beautiful simply because they, the men, are "good guys" who rolled out of bed that morning, got to some job or other, have a few hairs left and aren't in prison.

[CaliforniaGirl]

There are a lot of decent men. I think that a lot of women don't want a decent man - they want the bad boy type who is more exciting and perhaps more handsome.

 

Later, after they've sick and tired of repeatedly being hurt and dumped by the bad boys, they settle down with the decent guys. Until then, they don't appreciate the good men.

 

That's crazy!

 

I mean that's almost as objectionable (gasp! pearl-clutch ahead) as men who want to do every hot woman they can find when they're younger, based exclusively on looks and literally even if the hottie is "a psycho", then when they want a second paycheck, laundry-washer and "good"-home-keeper-upper and "good mother" for "their" children, settle for a way-less-hot, stable, hardworking, grateful, biological clock-ticking "settle for anything at this point" woman.

 

But nah. None of this could be basic immaturity (naturally) and unwillingness to settle down, hence avoiding the settle-downers, on the parts of BOTH males and females when they're young and in the exploratory stage; then, later...maturing and wanting different things. Let's not get crazy here...The generalizations are already falling like nuclear snow so let's keep going with this. Why not? Pretty soon we can ALL hate one another and categorize one another as cardboard stereotypes instead of human beings with hopes, dreams, experiences and personalities.

[CaliforniaGirl]

There's more than a bit of truth in this quote commonly attributed to Anais Nin: "We don’t see things as they are; we see them as we are."

 

Me, I see plenty of decent men and women, everywhere. Can you imagine what the world would be like if the majority of people were not? Yes, there are indecent people (and actually I like that trait in women... ..lol..), we just remember them more, exactly because they are not the norm and therefore stand out.

 

This!

 

Imagine a world where most people actually weren't (basically) decent. It would literally be anarchy, you couldn't walk down the street. People tearing each other apart left, right and center right in front of you.

 

People do stupid things, get desperate, play games...people make dumb decisions, usually based on sadness and/or lack/desperation. This doesn't "excuse" bad behavior but it does *explain* it to an extent...most of the dating foibles you'll see aren't based on true evil and lack of "decency" (however we're defining that). A truly evil world would be literally unlivable; there would be nobody left in no time, because people uniquely among other animals are able to drastically change/manipulate our environment and to utilize tools that can extend out fatal "reach" way, way, way beyond our, or even the strongest animal's capabilities. If we were all or even mostly bad people we would have killed each other and ourselves long, long, long, long ago.

 

Be real. Most people see others as "not decent" choices in dating simply because those people don't work out for us. And we are individuals. This is what dating is for, people! If everyone were alike and basically fit one another easily there would be no such thing as dating. We'd go outside, point to the nearest member of the opposite sex and walk off to city hall.

 

As hard as dating can be, and as frustrating, aren't you glad you ARE unique (and that so is everyone else) and that we DO have choices? We have more choices now than ever. Sometimes that seems to make things hard. Would you rather go back to the Bad Ol' Days where 12-year-old girls were dragged off to be wedded and legally raped nightly by 50-year-old guys with BO and a penchant for smacking women around, while keeping hookers on the side to spread disease? (With, BTW, the non-rich guys in the population settling for the ugliest, most disease-ridden, most pathetic, unappealing broads because they couldn't afford to "buy" themselves a better option?)

 

Choice makes things more difficult...but ultimately more rewarding.

 

I know which world I'd rather be in.

[CaliforniaGirl]

There are decent guys out there but a lot of them have been hurt badly by women and are no longer as decent as what they once were. It forces them to become more concerned about their interests and protecting themselves - even if at the expense of the other person.

 

 

Baloney. There are very few "decent guys" out there because the great-at-heart guys get snapped up FAST and married.

 

The overwhelming majority of married men I know personally are basically good guys. They got snapped up.

 

Ergo, fewer "nice guys" out there, single, into older ages.

 

Simple math.

 

The whole "I'm bitter" thing seems to occur very frequently with these "I DESERVE a supermodel for getting up this morning and breathing" social misfit-ish, odd-expectations dudes who get "hurt" over and over again by going for the hotties (and ignoring women more their speed). Not every time, for sure...but pretty darned often.

 

ACTUALLY nice, good guys? They're not bitter. They're freakin' married! Or happily shacked up. We women LOVE this type of guy, if we're at all mentally healthy. At all. Once we're past very young "I want excitement" ages (which BOTH sexes go through), yeah, we grab up those good dudes and love all over them. Because they deserve it.

[Fair]

How large a cohort of men could you possibly have met/dated/had LTRs with, such that it would be representative of most men?

 

And, just for the sake of argument, let's say that you are correct, most men are rotten. How exactly am I, one individual man, supposed to be the change you want to see in all these rotten men?

 

Do u really think I'm talking about only myself? Look around. Pay attention. And change yourself if you need to, who says u have to fix everyone? It starts withe self.

[CptInsano]

They're freakin' married! Or happily shacked up. We women LOVE this type of guy, if we're at all mentally healthy. At all. Once we're past very young "I want excitement" ages (which BOTH sexes go through), yeah, we grab up those good dudes and love all over them. Because they deserve it.

 

Yes, very much this. In my younger years I thought I needed to impress women and do crazy stuff. After the "excitement phase" it is simply enough to be a well-adjusted nice guy with a job and a sense of humor in a halfway presentable package.

 

I once met a woman who had done a lot of OLD. I had found her on a music-related online forum, and she had agreed to show me her city. While touring the city she became perplexed. She couldn't get over the fact that I found her attractive, but didn't try to pull any of the stunts her OLD dates did, and simply wanted to spend two days will her. She was in her mid-forties and her sense of normalcy in regard to male behavior was already warped by OLD. But in the end it said more about her, and how she tried to find men.

[RecentChange]

Baloney. There are very few "decent guys" out there because the great-at-heart guys get snapped up FAST and married.

 

The overwhelming majority of married men I know personally are basically good guys. They got snapped up.

 

Ergo, fewer "nice guys" out there, single, into older ages.

 

I will agree with this. I am married to a decent guy. Most of my friends are shacked up with decent men, and have been for over a decade.

 

It's the truth for both sexes, if one is still single and looking well into their 30's or 40' then yeah - it's going to be slim pickings. You are going to have people with more baggage, more failed relationships, or decades spent NOT building relationship skills. People who haven't been able to foster lasting relationships for one reason or another.

 

It's kinda like waiting till the last few kids are getting picked for a sporting team, and then complaining that there aren't any athletes any more. Where there ARE plenty of athletes, but they picked a team already.

 

There are many decent men out there -men who have social skills, desirable traits, treat women with respect, have the ability to form and maintain lasting relationships. And yes, they are probably in a relationship.

 

I guess I see a difference between "there are no decent men any more!!" And "there aren't many decent, single, well adjusted, check all the boxes 35 year old men out there that I would want to date".

[basil67]

It's a victim blaming society, though, isn't it?

 

Having known a couple of women who can't find a decent guy....and having read posts about the topic here.... Yes, I would say that the women are doing stuff wrong.

 

Let's start with the idea that a guy must be handsome. Sure, wanting a handsome guy is their prerogative, but don't come complaining to me about not finding decent men when you've passed 9/10 of them by because they don't meet the looks criteria.

 

And then there's the women who waste time trying to make it work with men who aren't good guys. They women come out scarred because of their choice to stay and then continue to make bad choices. Then they blame all men for this.

 

So yeah. Some women certainly bring this upon themselves.

[Shanex]

Someone in a similar thread was writing about the fact that some people are burned out of OLD and jaded, bitter about men, or women too.. especially those who got divorced and are left single with x children back in the dating pool..

 

More a question of compatibility as another poster has stated. If I want long term, I need the spark, like a high-school naive girl, I need attraction too though I don't really have high standards.

 

So decent guys? I have to disagree with the fact that ''all good guys are taken already'' must mean I am the lowest scum of the earth jerk then. It's plain wrong. Personally I was in multiple relationships and the few I was in love with didn't want commitment nor children, bad luck Brian uh?

 

I'm also disadvantaged because I have never been married and have children, which some will call redflags, in my 30s.

 

Some of the meanest women and men I have met curiously were married, so the whole ''kind people are taken already'' makes me giggle a bit.

[preraph]

Someone in a similar thread was writing about the fact that some people are burned out of OLD and jaded, bitter about men, or women too.. especially those who got divorced and are left single with x children back in the dating pool..

 

More a question of compatibility as another poster has stated. If I want long term, I need the spark, like a high-school naive girl, I need attraction too though I don't really have high standards.

 

So decent guys? I have to disagree with the fact that ''all good guys are taken already'' must mean I am the lowest scum of the earth jerk then. It's plain wrong. Personally I was in multiple relationships and the few I was in love with didn't want commitment nor children, bad luck Brian uh?

 

I'm also disadvantaged because I have never been married and have children, which some will call redflags, in my 30s.

 

Some of the meanest women and men I have met curiously were married, so the whole ''kind people are taken already'' makes me giggle a bit.

 

I do agree it's too much of a generalization, but it is true the more responsible and attractive guys are probably already taken unless they're now divorced. A couple of my friends mostly married really loser men who are hard to get along with and either overly possessive in a drunk way or socially anxious and won't participate much in the marriage/kids. And one of those women is truly the nicest woman and also attractive. I just don't get it. But she has abandonment issues with her dad, so she got drawn to this one that can't connect with her, I guess. Everyone is different what to them is decent, you know.

[Shanex]

I do agree it's too much of a generalization, but it is true the more responsible and attractive guys are probably already taken unless they're now divorced. A couple of my friends mostly married really loser men who are hard to get along with and either overly possessive in a drunk way or socially anxious and won't participate much in the marriage/kids. And one of those women is truly the nicest woman and also attractive. I just don't get it. But she has abandonment issues with her dad, so she got drawn to this one that can't connect with her, I guess. Everyone is different what to them is decent, you know.

 

Aye. I was going to give out examples around me about really kind men/women coupled up or married with someone really horrible. But I wanted to keep the central point. I agree.

[Chilli]

Where do u think women are getting the notion so many men are rotten? Experience teaches us.... it doesn't come from nowhere. If men don't like the attitude, they should be the change they want to see.

 

 

That's funny really then because most guys l talk to say women are crazy , all of them.

Could be somem in it.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Chilli

[Chilli]

Yeah, again both ways, ya see that marriage thing in both.

Couldn't pay me enough to be married to some of the married women in couples l've met or know or see.

Just shoot me if that was my fate, poor bastards.

[Otter2569]

As a decent, successful (IMO), happy, responsible and down to earth guy I realize how rare we are...not because I am an egotistical a$$ but because women tell me so.

 

Problem is most women don't know what to do with a decent guy once they get one.

 

I know I am not perfect but I am way better than most. Being divorced I will never settle for someone who does not appreciate me. I am quite content being single. I get plenty of dates and lots of sex...why would I ever settle?!

[Springsummer]

I live in a city of 4 millions.

 

I met them over 3,5 years on and off online. Getting a date was easy, sometimes I met 2 a day or 3 in a week. It's Montreal here, of course they were all gorgeous ;-)

 

oh, Montreal guys seem everywhere, not just in Montreal. The guy consultant who is seating besides me is one gorgeous guy from Montreal, albeit smaller in statue.

 

we are all new, so don't know his relationship status. but he looks too young for me anyhow.

[Sweetfish]

BTW there are plenty of decent guys...just that women don't find them attractive. lol

 

 

Oh they get attractive eventually....

[Fair]

Having known a couple of women who can't find a decent guy....and having read posts about the topic here.... Yes, I would say that the women are doing stuff wrong.

 

Let's start with the idea that a guy must be handsome. Sure, wanting a handsome guy is their prerogative, but don't come complaining to me about not finding decent men when you've passed 9/10 of them by because they don't meet the looks criteria.

 

And then there's the women who waste time trying to make it work with men who aren't good guys. They women come out scarred because of their choice to stay and then continue to make bad choices. Then they blame all men for this.

 

So yeah. Some women certainly bring this upon themselves.

 

Some make bad choices, sure. But the fewer the decent guys left over on the market the more likely it is.

 

Btw, this thread is attracting a lot of men with 'nice guy' syndrome. Self professed 'nice guys' are usually the biggest jerks with the biggest sense of entitlement and zero self awareness.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Fair

[SevenCity]

Baloney. There are very few "decent guys" out there because the great-at-heart guys get snapped up FAST and married.

 

The overwhelming majority of married men I know personally are basically good guys. They got snapped up.

 

Ergo, fewer "nice guys" out there, single, into older ages.

 

Simple math.

 

The whole "I'm bitter" thing seems to occur very frequently with these "I DESERVE a supermodel for getting up this morning and breathing" social misfit-ish, odd-expectations dudes who get "hurt" over and over again by going for the hotties (and ignoring women more their speed). Not every time, for sure...but pretty darned often.

 

ACTUALLY nice, good guys? They're not bitter. They're freakin' married! Or happily shacked up. We women LOVE this type of guy, if we're at all mentally healthy. At all. Once we're past very young "I want excitement" ages (which BOTH sexes go through), yeah, we grab up those good dudes and love all over them. Because they deserve it.

 

It's funny how you make sweeping, angry, bitter generalizations about men. Be it anyone who's read a PUA book or every guy who's not married or with a girl.

 

So basically every single guy over a certain age isn't "decent" and not dateable.

 

Got it.

[Shanex]

Some make bad choices, sure. But the fewer the decent guys left over on the market the more likely it is.

 

Btw, this thread is attracting a lot of men with 'nice guy' syndrome. Self professed 'nice guys' are usually the biggest jerks with the biggest sense of entitlement and zero self awareness.

 

Second paragraphs wasn't necessary. You might as well call say ''nice guys'' out instead of making this broad statement.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Oh they get attractive eventually....

 

Oh God, not THIS again.

 

"Eventually" comes pretty darned fast; the average U.S. male is married BY 29, which means, if you consider even a pretty darned short pre-engagement relationship (let's say, one year) plus a year's engagement to get everything together, means that BY 27 the average guy is already "attractive"...to girls roughly his age (27, I believe, for the average U.S. woman's first marriage).

 

And let's not forget that given this is an average, some men will be older than that...but some will actually be younger than that, too.

 

No mystery here. Teens and young-20s overall want to experiment and do crazy stuff; at around mid-20s (again, roughly) they're all maturing because growing up happens.

 

And when it happens...pretty darned early...yep. Women want a guy they can count on...just as men want a woman they can count on.

 

Not really any mystery there either.

 

**

 

Okay...different subject:

 

I didn't mean to offend any single men by saying good guys get snapped up. Obviously I didn't mean every single good guy gets married early (sometimes, good guys just don't WANT to be married; sometimes the chips don't fall the right way...anything can happen) and I didn't mean that every single guy who isn't married before his 30s or whatever arbitrary number isn't a good guy.

 

I would really think that goes without saying, but evidently it doesn't, so there you go.

 

As for some really nasty people being marrieds, some really nasty people are unmarrieds too. Or divorcees, or widows...whatever. I don't think a person who is negative for whatever his/her reasons are necessarily means a "not decent" person, however. Someone can be going through stuff, just not seem to have much nice to say or be really impatient or whatever, yet still have been what would be considered a "decent" person: generally doesn't want to hurt others, doesn't hurt animals or kids or weaker individuals, pays his/her taxes, works, wants to live a basically healthy, safe life. The basics.

 

A person who isn't "decent" I would consider (I realize everyone is going to be different here) someone who seeks to harm, who tries to get away with things on the job, pull things over on other people, use other people; who doesn't care much about his/her environment, messes it up and leaves the messes for the next person, is inconsiderate of others in general, doesn't have much of a future (one way or another, and no, this does NOT have to equate to money...just goals in general)...etc...etc.

 

I'd have thought all this went without saying too but it didn't, so there you have it. Because it was apparently all fun and games when the thread was becoming all about jeering at us stupid women who apparently all want horrible men and can be easily fooled and who cruelly, like the Bs we are, entirely neglect decent, wonderful guys, to ZOMG pearl-clutching when the tide turned a hair there.

 

Next time I'll put several dozen "some"s and "generally but not always"es and so on in there.