how rare are 'decent' guys?

[Jj66]

I'm not a nice guy.

 

But I like to think I'm a decent man.

 

An ex once told me: you are just bad enough.

[CaliforniaGirl]

I'm not a nice guy.

 

But I like to think I'm a decent man.

 

An ex once told me: you are just bad enough.

 

Your posts here show a nice person. So unless you're faking it, you're nice. I don't know you but that's my impression.

 

You don't come off bad boy to me at all except when you try to point out that you're a bad boy, LOL, but if your girlfriend is talking about teasing, not being a doormat, or other things that our moms or grandmas would say "that's not nice!" to, then that's not being un-nice, it's just being fun, LOL.

 

I think of "not nice" as wanting to harm people, use them, laughing when someone is in pain, cheating, things like that.

 

Maybe a basic issue with the idea of this thread is that nobody really has one definition of "decent" and that "nice" or "not nice" are being added in there now, which adds another entire element (for example, I'm a decent person, but I WOULD NOT be nice if someone spoke nastily to my children in public...wow, I would not be nice at all). Or...for instance, on here, I am NOT nice when people start talking about how to manipulate others to do what they want and the like, or people who say totally snarky hurtful things dismissing entire groups of people...I am actually NASTY when that happens. Generally, that's to make a point - not because I want to see someone feel hurt and sad. That idea gives me no joy whatsoever. Either way, "nice" or not, I am not an indecent person. Not by a long, long shot.

 

And then again, for some people, being "nice" equates to being a pansy and a pushover (which is kind of unfair, IMO) so a lot of people run from that label.

 

It's kind of an impossible issue to correctly grasp because of these problems, IMO.

 

I suppose we can all just do our best.

[curiouslysearching]

I also bristle at catagorizing whole genders.

 

"No decent men" are their fathers, brothers, uncles, sons etc "indecent men"?

 

Is the same when some men disparage that all women are "x" undesirable trait. I wonder if they feel the same way about their mothers, grandma's etc.

 

Now if they don't think that the men they know well or are related to are terrible - well then I say they are just picking the wrong people to date.

 

If they DO think these negative things about their "loved ones" well then I KNOW why they are picking the wrong people to date!

 

I agree.....DON'T JUDGE THE WHOLE BY A FEW......

[Imajerk17]

I dunno, I don't think most everyone who is single around my age is a hopeless case. I think there are a lot of decent guys my age who are single--I know a few. Possible reasons for being single include divorce and having a career where they are working mostly w others of your own gender.

 

My take: BOTH genders date by attraction/chemistry first, and then character second. A woman could be Mother Theresa but if I can't see myself wanting to rip her clothes off and have passionate sex with her--which has to do w everything from looks to vibe as well as character, it's not happening. HOWEVER, while everyone knows that we men are dogs like that, women are thought of as the "fairer" and purer sex who are supposed to be all about character. So the narrative they tend to use when lamenting being single is that they "can't find a decent guy", whereas the reality probably is closer to they can't find a man they are attracted to, who is ALSO a decent guy.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Imajerk17

[preraph]

There are so many little practical things that can swing you into being a "decent guy" or a better catch. For example, things that seem lacking in the younger generation is knowing how to do anything that isn't electronic. Like if you want an adult woman looking for a good husband, it wouldn't hurt to go take a basic mechanics class and a shop class and a handyman class so you have some skills beyond what she already has. Because let's face it, women don't need men like they once did, but there are physical things they are stronger and better able to do and have more interest in that a smart woman would love to have under her roof. It also wouldn't hurt women to develop similar skills, and both sexes benefit by being able to sew on a button and having basic cooking skills.

 

Other things that can put a man in a higher category are anything doing what women like that men usually don't, like knowing how to dance well and going out dancing. It gives women and men a chance to dress up (or not depending what type of dance) and it used to be considered basic social graces, and if you ever marry, you'll need to know at least a little, so may as well learn early. Being a good host at a party or a smooth guest at a restaurant can make a man more impressive. And that's not just nice restaurants but anyplace you may go.

 

Being sure you have good table manners, for men and women, can elevate you. You can learn that by reading and then practicing.

 

Decent in the sense of just having some ethics and not lying is probably the most important and mainly what this thread is about. But there's more to it is all I'm saying.

[Els]

Yeah, almost every decent man I know who actually wants to be in a relationship (and who fulfills basic criteria like being employed, not living with his parents, and not being morbidly obese) has had at least one LTR in his 20s. I'm not buying the "women don't like good guys" crap either.

 

FTR, this isn't bitterness or whatever - I'm happily paired up and am not interested in dating anyone else. Just observation.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Elswyth

[Sweetfish]

Oh God, not THIS again.

 

"Eventually" comes pretty darned fast; the average U.S. male is married BY 29, which means, if you consider even a pretty darned short pre-engagement relationship (let's say, one year) plus a year's engagement to get everything together, means that BY 27 the average guy is already "attractive"...to girls roughly his age (27, I believe, for the average U.S. woman's first marriage).

 

and the average divorce rate is 50% with 75-80% brought on by the female and the rate of marriage is dropping every year and at its lowest. Also, statistically as a men gets older he will lease likely to get married or want to be married.

 

more men are opting out of college and more women are opting in.

 

So if you going to dump numbers please dump all of them.

 

No mystery here. Teens and young-20s overall want to experiment and do crazy stuff; at around mid-20s (again, roughly) they're all maturing because growing up happens.

 

Sorry Cali...but this is a Disney statement... does this crazy stuff include going to prison or jail, getting knocked up, or getting married to the wrong person because they thought they were grown up and the many divorces before the age of 29?

 

Where is your proof that teens and 20 year olds are all doing crazy stuff? Isn't this the same thing you accuse me of... generalization and that its "wrong to generalize"

 

I know many guys who are not doing crazy stuff at this age...and are career driven and educated and doing the right things and prefer a stable relationship rather than experiment and growing up doesn't just happen.

 

Some grow-up and some don't.

 

Women want a guy they can count on...just as men want a woman they can count on.

 

Not really any mystery there either.

 

Yup...sounds all good on paper right

 

everything is nice and equal. Men and women want the same things.. yup.

[Chilli]

Same again , if all the good guys get snapped up early then that would mean all the good chicks get snapped up early too.

And there's something wrong within at least the same proportion of millions of single women and men out there that are left. Although tbh as a single guy again for 3 or so yrs there for awhile l would say the scales def' tipped quite heavily toward women actually.

 

The rest of both, they just haven't met the right one , don't wanna get married or are just simply unlucky in love or some other sh@t and probably yeah , a decent sharing of b@tches and ass@@@@@ and crazies among them too.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Chilli

[CaliforniaGirl]

and the average divorce rate is 50% with 75-80% brought on by the female and the rate of marriage is dropping every year and at its lowest. Also, statistically as a men gets older he will lease likely to get married or want to be married. So if you going to dump numbers please dump all of them.

 

Okay, sure. I'll dump your 50% number, for starters. The divorce rate has been steadily declining and the 50% divorce rate is misleading (with certain areas geographically far more prone to divorce and including multiple divorce of individuals, making it look like the total number of people who will divorce is 50%): about 70% of all couples married in the 1990s are still currently married (an increase from the years prior) and two-thirds of all couples are estimated to never be divorced (the estimate is because they're not dead yet, so nobody can say they'll never be divorced as a certainty).

 

And I still don't see what this has to do with your sighing "eventually" statement, so honestly, bringing this up was kind of odd and didn't make much sense in context, but anyway...you're welcome on the correction there.

 

 

more men are opting out of college and more women are opting in.

 

 

And this has to do with...what, again? (As regards your "eventually" statement?) The average age of first marriage for a woman is just 27. So that "eventually," given she had to meet, have a relationship and an engagement period with the guy first, which probably took a few years, wasn't any dragging sigh of "eventually". It was still quite early given she had to complete her education and start a career first.

 

Sorry Cali...but this is a Disney statement... does this crazy stuff include going to prison or jail, getting knocked up, or getting married to the wrong person because they thought they were grown up and the many divorces before the age of 29?

Where is your proof that teens and 20 year olds are all doing crazy stuff? Isn't this the same thing you accuse me of... generalization and that its "wrong to generalize"

 

Oh, don't be sorry! I don't mind helping you out with corrections. I have the time right now. Anyway, as regards this comment: does the craziness involve prison and so on...not for the majority of the population, again, statistically; young or old. Despite lots of media exposure on crime, the crime rate, too, is down overall. As for teens specifically, yes, some still do get pregnant. They always did. Always will. Some do get divorced; FEWER than previously...see stats above.

 

Divorce before the age of 29, specifically? I don't know. Why this question?

 

As for what I call "crazy stuff": I don't know that I'd consider divorce or prison "ha ha, teen and college crazy stuff." I was thinking more along the lines of not being very serious about the permanency of relationships (which was the whole point here...wasn't it? I mean until you took this in circles trying to hold on hard to your own beliefs for your own reasons), partying, and the like. If you wish to prove teens and college kids don't like to party, overall particularly as compared to, say, 30 year olds and up, as a general rule, go ahead. I'll be interested to see your support for that. My "proof" that young people on average like to party to a far greater extent than older people is my eyes, and being a conscious person who doesn't live under a rock. However, if you want something firmer, the brain itself delivers clues that it does not mature into avoiding risk-taking behavior (which would cover that "crazy stuff"...see the linked article for some details and examples) until the early 20s. HTH.

 

I know many guys who are not doing crazy stuff at this age...and are career driven and educated and doing the right things and prefer a stable relationship rather than experiment and growing up doesn't just happen.

 

Some grow-up and some don't.

 

Oh, good! I'll go to my local university and inform all the girls that they're in luck: they'll have no problem looking around their classes and finding a career-driven young man who wants a stable relationship right now. After they pick themselves up from the floor where they just fell down laughing, I'm sure they'll say "thanks Gramma" and wander off still wiping the tears of mirth.

 

"Growing up doesn't just happen..." No. Physically maturing, neurologically maturing, and experience happen, and develop an individual.

 

Yes, some people stay immature. MANY others do not, and continue to grow and move forward.

 

Yup...sounds all good on paper right

 

everything is nice and equal. Men and women want the same things.. yup.

 

Yes. Human nature is human nature. Given an average bell curve development absent of mental illness, abuse or other factors to figure in (and even then in many cases people will follow a basic human nature curve), we all want the same basic comforts. Love is included. We go about them in individual ways but yes, men and women want approximately the same things overall. Google Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs for more information.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Same again , if all the good guys get snapped up early then that would mean all the good chicks get snapped up early too.

And there's something wrong within at least the same proportion of millions of single women and men out there that are left. Although tbh as a single guy again for 3 or so yrs there for awhile l would say the scales def' tipped quite heavily toward women actually.

 

The rest of both, they just haven't met the right one , don't wanna get married or are just simply unlucky in love or some other sh@t and probably yeah , a decent sharing of b@tches and ass@@@@@ and crazies among them too.

 

Not "all." No. Of course not. But a bunch? Yeah.

 

There's nothing wrong with the percentage of single people. People have choices now. For the first time in history we don't universally feel we "have to" marry in order to be supported, get sex in a socially accepted way, create diplomatic and social ties, be well regarded in the community, not be outcast and all the other mix of reasons people have had.

[palmsand]

This all really reminds me of my buddy, married at 23, divorced a year or two later. He's 28 now and his life has just been a freight train of toxic relationships, derailing one car after the other... He is far from a decent guy.

[Sweetfish]

Okay, sure. I'll dump your 50% number, for starters. The divorce rate has been steadily declining and the 50% divorce rate is misleading (with certain areas geographically far more prone to divorce and including multiple divorce of individuals, making it look like the total number of people who will divorce is 50%): about 70% of all couples married in the 1990s are still currently married (an increase from the years prior) and two-thirds of all couples are estimated to never be divorced (the estimate is because they're not dead yet, so nobody can say they'll never be divorced as a certainty).

 

And I still don't see what this has to do with your sighing "eventually" statement, so honestly, bringing this up was kind of odd and didn't make much sense in context, but anyway...you're welcome on the correction there.

 

 

 

 

 

And this has to do with...what, again? (As regards your "eventually" statement?) The average age of first marriage for a woman is just 27. So that "eventually," given she had to meet, have a relationship and an engagement period with the guy first, which probably took a few years, wasn't any dragging sigh of "eventually". It was still quite early given she had to complete her education and start a career first.

 

 

 

Oh, don't be sorry! I don't mind helping you out with corrections. I have the time right now. Anyway, as regards this comment: does the craziness involve prison and so on...not for the majority of the population, again, statistically; young or old. Despite lots of media exposure on crime, the crime rate, too, is down overall. As for teens specifically, yes, some still do get pregnant. They always did. Always will. Some do get divorced; FEWER than previously...see stats above.

 

Divorce before the age of 29, specifically? I don't know. Why this question?

 

As for what I call "crazy stuff": I don't know that I'd consider divorce or prison "ha ha, teen and college crazy stuff." I was thinking more along the lines of not being very serious about the permanency of relationships (which was the whole point here...wasn't it? I mean until you took this in circles trying to hold on hard to your own beliefs for your own reasons), partying, and the like. If you wish to prove teens and college kids don't like to party, overall particularly as compared to, say, 30 year olds and up, as a general rule, go ahead. I'll be interested to see your support for that. My "proof" that young people on average like to party to a far greater extent than older people is my eyes, and being a conscious person who doesn't live under a rock. However, if you want something firmer, the brain itself delivers clues that it does not mature into avoiding risk-taking behavior (which would cover that "crazy stuff"...see the linked article for some details and examples) until the early 20s. HTH.

 

 

 

Oh, good! I'll go to my local university and inform all the girls that they're in luck: they'll have no problem looking around their classes and finding a career-driven young man who wants a stable relationship right now. After they pick themselves up from the floor where they just fell down laughing, I'm sure they'll say "thanks Gramma" and wander off still wiping the tears of mirth.

 

"Growing up doesn't just happen..." No. Physically maturing, neurologically maturing, and experience happen, and develop an individual.

 

Yes, some people stay immature. MANY others do not, and continue to grow and move forward.

 

 

 

Yes. Human nature is human nature. Given an average bell curve development absent of mental illness, abuse or other factors to figure in (and even then in many cases people will follow a basic human nature curve), we all want the same basic comforts. Love is included. We go about them in individual ways but yes, men and women want approximately the same things overall. Google Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs for more information.

 

I would love to play...but selectively cherry picking data, not understanding data and deciding whats a generalization and whats not on your terms is not a card game im willing to play.

 

I submit... you are right and I am wrong.

 

Everything is clean an equal.

[William]

Couple things....

 

One, the topic is 'how rare are decent guys?' Given the subjective nature of the topic, let's move beyond debating statistics, especially ones having nothing substantive to do with decent guys. Offer personal experience, how one defines rare and decent and guys, and similar.

 

Two, we've got a member here whose posts are auto-moderated through no fault of their own so publication often lags the real time movement of the thread. That can leave content seemingly out of sequence and appearing in the back-read. Hence, please read back a bit, usually an hour or so, to make sure content is being read and considered.

 

Thanks and please continue!

[GunslingerRoland]

and the average divorce rate is 50% with 75-80% brought on by the female and the rate of marriage is dropping every year and at its lowest. Also, statistically as a men gets older he will lease likely to get married or want to be married.

 

It's about 30% and 70% actually. And that is population wide. A lot of major factors include things like education level, income level, upbringing etc.

 

The odds if you are a "decent guy" marrying a "decent girl", your odds of divorce are probably well under 30%.

 

Oops, I missed Williams' post, I'll probably get another reprimand, but to get this back on topic.

 

Decent is always going to be highly subjective. But I think someone who is clean, high school finished, with some sort of training or college afterwards. Steadily employed, polite, honest seem like some of the basics for decent.

 

It would vary greatly by region. Where I am, I think most people would qualify as decent, other places maybe less so.

 

The odds of them being single, then varies by age.

Edited March 23, 2017 by GunslingerRoland

[Chilli]

Yeah l agree. l like the fact a lot of people don't care about getting married now or choose this or that. It's pretty cool actually.