The kids after separation

[mnnc]

My wife of 13 years left me 8 months ago for someone else. I was blindsided with this and had no idea this was coming. I thought our marriage was good and that she was happy. We have two young children who we share split custody with.

 

Of course I have a lot of emotions. I feel betrayed and devastated. I lost 43 lbs over the first 12 weeks she had left me. To top everything off, she had left me 4 weeks after I and the children had moved to another state for her because she got a new job. I could not feel more taken advantage of.

 

Her and I relationship is strictly business for the kids. We are civil with each other and none of us talk bad about each other in front of them. She has slightly attempted to have normal talks with me beyond the kids but I usually answer with short answers. I honestly do not want anything to do with her beyond taking care of our kids. I have so much anger and disgust of what she did and what kind of person she is.

 

This past Christmas she was scheduled to have the kids for Christmas eve and day while her parents came in to visit. She texted and invited me to come over Christmas day so I could see the kids. I respectfully declined and told her I would be having Christmas with kids the following day. The kids already knew this and seemed perfectly fine about it. They never showed that they were upset that I was not going to be there with them on Christmas day. My wife responded to my text and said she knew things between us were awkward but there is some times we have to pull through for the kids.

 

So here is my question. Am I being unreasonable for not wanting to spend the holidays with her for the kids? Am I being selfish? If the kids were showing they were upset or bothered that I was not there, I would go. But my kids knew they were spending Christmas with their father the next day. When they came over, we had a wonderful Christmas together and I can honestly say I would not have enjoyed myself if I had spent it with the same room with her. As I read this, I say to myself I need to suck it up and do whatever it takes to make the kids more comfortable but then there is a part of me that feels I can be a better father the more I am away from her because its easier to handle my emotions.

 

There is also another part of me that wants to show her what separation and betrayal is about. When she was leaving me, I had begged for her to stay for us and the kids. She would always simply say "You'll move one. The kids will be fine. In a few weeks you will be over this and everything will be better". I really do believe she thought within a few weeks we would be friends and we would spend holidays together as if nothing ever happened. But again, this is letting my personal feelings interfere with how to handle things for my children.

 

So is there anyone who has gone through a separation or divorce and still spends holidays with their ex (ex who lied and betrayed them) for the kids? If so how do you ignore the anger? Do you really think I should try and do this for the kids? I am good father and love my kids with everything I have. I put more then her share when it comes to taking care of them and would love to move back where my family is but unfortunately I can't because I can't take the kids. Some people say you do whatever you have to do for the kids and then some say you shouldn't have to feel guilty for not going. I am confused and looking for guidance.

 

Thanks

[minimariah]

You're not unreasonable.

 

It's way too soon for you to feel comfortable around your X anyway; if i were you, i'd tell her straight up that she needs to be patient and show more understanding for you and your emotions. Her comment about pulling through for the kids is unnecessary- pulling through means communicating well, agreeing on the custody and the parenting. That's about it. It doesn't include spending the holidays together or any other event that you can organize on your own; you're divorced so it's natural that holidays won't be celebrated as a family - there is no need for that anymore... especislly if the kids are ok.

 

So - two things. Make sure your kids know you always want to be there for them. Make sure they know you didn't bail on them and that you want to spend every minute with them but due to the separation/divorce... you will celebrate major events separately. Make sure your X doesn't tell them that you didn't want to come or anything along those lines. Then make sure to let your X know that, while you're prepared to be civil and cooperative, you have no interest in being friends. You're treating her like a business partner and want to keep the convo STRICTLY businesslike. Tell her that, straight up. Let her know what you expect and what are your boundaries; what is or isn't acceptable to you. She can disagree but her opinion on the matter is irrelevat as long as you work together well for the kids - which you are.

 

Take care of yourself and don't feel guilty about it. You need your sanity and composure and your strength right now. It's good to detach from the family and work toward building a family base & union with the kids on your own. She can do the same with her own home. You're being perfectly normal and it is your right to decline her request for companionship - don't feel bad about it. You're entirely entitled to secure your boundaries and in this case - you're not harming your children.

[Gr8fuln2020]

Not unreasonable.

[Momof3littleones]

I don't think it's unreasonable at all. Divorced couples normally do holidays apart. There's other times where you have to be around your ex for the sake of the kids like if you do a birthday party or if there's games to go to, but the holidays is not one of them because you decide ahead of time who is celebrating what day with the kids. Honestly everyone's different, so I imagine it's what you're comfortable with.

 

This is pretty much exactly what my husband has pulled with me although he hasn't actually left to be with someone else (cheating was involved though) but he wasn't willing to do counseling. I've had these same concerns about the holidays and what not because I am being civil.

[somanymistakes]

Having been a child of divorced parents, kids are often quite happy to get two Christmases. You're not doing anything wrong there.

 

There will be times eventually when you might have to put up with her presence at an event for a child that can't be duplicated but this isn't one of them.

[road]

Contact with the WW after divorce is painful for the BH. It is

normal for the BH to take measures to prevent this pain.

To prevent the pain the BH needs to go NC with the WW and

to put in place Parallel Parenting instead of Co-parenting.

This way the BH is able to maintain NC with the ex WW.

 

 

To parallel parent the BH needs a friend or relative to be their

intermediary contact person to pass information between the

BH and the ex WW.

 

 

Any requests from the ex WW goes to the IM. They filter out the

non important stuff and pass on just the important fact.

Such as can you take the kids a day early. The BH responds

yes or no to the IM then the IM responds to the ex WW.

 

 

This prevents the BH from hearing damage control spin, false

justifications, we need to do this for the kids, or any other barf

inducing statements from the ex WW lips.

 

 

A true emergency is child got run over by a car, child is in the ER,

or any life threatening issue the ex WW can call and leave a voice

message or text.

 

 

Though be warned many a ex WW will test your resolve to get

her BH to break NC. When ever the ex WW breaks NC with a

non emergency the BH does not respond even if he picks up

the phone by mistake. He just hangs up and has the IM send a

message to the ex WW to not break NC with a non emergency

request.

[road]

This behavior of the ex WW is their ploy to lessen their

guilt by showing that look I am not so bad, that my affair

was not so bad after the divorce. Because look your BH still

will have contact with me so we can appear to still be the

happy family on occasion.

[NTV]

Next time she texts you? 'Sounds important send me an email. '

 

She thinks that every one will be understanding and sympathetic to her 'feelings'. Side note - Her feelings apparently suck.

 

If you showed up she'd be able to say 'see what I did couldn't have been that bad'.

 

I wouldn't have gone either. I would never go. Unless I happened to be dating her hotter sister. That might be fun. I'd at least think about it then.

[mnnc]

Thank you everyone. I feel better knowing others see it not being unreasonable. Emotions can make you wonder if you are making the right decisions and it helps to get other's opinions.

 

Also, I agree about not being friends with her. My wife did tell me she and I would still be friends and a family right after she left me. This was just a few days after she had spent the weekend with her new boyfriend at the beach while I stayed at home watching the kids. I told her we would never be friends because "friends" do not do to others what she did to me and our family. Over the past few months she has attempted to offer help on little things. For example, she offered to drive the kids and I from to the airport when I was taking them out of town to see family. I told her no and that I would drive myself. Any help she offers, I decline. I do not talk to her unless its about the kids or something else related to our separation.

 

I know she will resent me as I don't open up to her and be "friends". She will probably tell others I am being selfish and hurting the kids which will make me angry but I have come to realize what she thinks does not matter anymore. The wife I loved is gone and this person is simply a selfish and cold hearted individual that I do not like. The only people that know the truth are the ones that matter and that is my family and hers as well. I decided I will never tell the kids what happened between us unless they ask me when they are grown up (over 18). If they ask me, I will tell them the truth and everything that happened. If I tell them, I will not call her names or show anger. I will simply give them the facts and they can come up to their own conclusions about her.

 

Thanks everyone!

Edited March 26, 2017 by mnnc

[Marc878]

Thank you everyone. I feel better knowing others see it not being unreasonable. Emotions can make you wonder if you are making the right decisions and it helps to get other's opinions.

 

Also, I agree about not being friends with her. My wife did tell me she and I would still be friends and a family right after she left me. This was just a few days after she had spent the weekend with her new boyfriend at the beach while I stayed at home watching the kids. I told her we would never be friends because "friends" do not do to others what she did to me and our family. Over the past few months she has attempted to offer help on little things. For example, she offered to drive the kids and I from to the airport when I was taking them out of town to see family. I told her no and that I would drive myself. Any help she offers, I decline. I do not talk to her unless its about the kids or something else related to our separation.

 

Definition of friend - loyal, honest and trustworthy. She's not friend material.

She wants friendship for her. It helps aleviate guilt and she can say see "he's ok with what I've done cause we're friends"!

 

I know she will resent me as I don't open up to her and be "friends". She will probably tell others I am being selfish and hurting the kids which will make me angry but I have come to realize what she thinks does not matter anymore. The wife I loved is gone and this person is simply a selfish and cold hearted individual that I do not like. The only people that know the truth are the ones that matter and that is my family and hers as well. I decided I will never tell the kids what happened between us unless they ask me when they are grown up (over 18). If they ask me, I will tell them the truth and everything that happened. If I tell them, I will not call her names or show anger. I will simply give them the facts and they can come up to their own conclusions about her.

 

Never lie to your kids but tell them in an age appropriate sanitized way.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

In order for you to have a good future your X can't be a part of it. That can destroy any future relationships that you want.

 

You'd be wise to to purge everything of her from your life, pics, mementos, etc.

Hard 180 except for the kids and that needs to be text or email only. Brief and to the point. Never answer a phone call direct and ignore anything not kid or business related. Only then can you move onto where you need to be.

 

Read up

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/406628-critical-readings-separation-divorce

[stillafool]

You are absolutely not being unreasonable. You are right to have your own holidays the way you chose with your kids. She can no longer tell you what to do. She wants you to be part of her "Christmas" so you can foot some of "her" bills for the occasion and that's why she wants to share that holiday. She's selfish. No she is not your friend so just worry about your kids.

[Momof3littleones]

It sounds like you're being very level headed. You should be proud of how you're handling this like a mature adult. You don't owe her being her friend. You're being civil, and that's enough.

[JuneL]

No, you are not unreasonable, at all. She really had the nerve to say that, after having cheated on you and destroyed your family.

[The_Onceler]

Some people say you do whatever you have to do for the kids and then some say you shouldn't have to feel guilty for not going. I am confused and looking for guidance.

 

Thanks

 

Wow, man - I feel for you. Sorry you are having to deal with such a crappy situation.

 

My ex seems to be reading from the same playbook as yours. We could be talking about the same person. She often suggests that we do things "as a family" for the benefit of the kids. When I decline, she tells me that I need to put the kids ahead of my own feelings.

 

Oh really?

 

Because it was not long ago that she decided that her path to personal happiness was to leave me and have an affair with an old flame. So, she was happy to rationalize putting her own feelings first THEN, but when I do the same, I am in the wrong?

 

In general, all of their reasons for wanting to leave the relationship are my reasons for wanting to not be around her.

 

 

 

But what REALLY strikes a chord with me is that she had you all move to her new job when she ALREADY KNEW she was going to leave you. And she probably knew that you could not then take the kids across state lines, or at least, not easily.

 

Maybe I am wrong, but your ex sounds perhaps even worse than mine.

[testmeasure]

.

 

There is no right answer here. So, you can't be wrong. A lot depends on you and the kids. Really, all you can do is be "wrong" for you or the kids and in a distant way for her.

 

First, I can see you are taking both yourself and the kids into account. That's completely healthy.

 

What are the ages of the kids and how much time do you have with them?

 

Keep yourself and the kids best interest first. The last point will seem bigger because it's more complicated, but it's the distant way in which her interest matters. Her interest really only matters to the extent that it has consequences for you and the kids.

 

A way to view your ex is as a storm or natural disaster. It has to be handled and handling it the wrong way can have consequences. Once you get beyond the emotion of the divorce, co-parenting is a chess game. You balance your interest and the kids interest with tactical consequences of how you deal with their mom. She has already cost you time, money, and pain with irrationality. More of that is not in the best interest of you or the kids. How to mitigate it is a question of circumstance and judgement. Some circumstances might call for as close to no contact as possible, others a measure of appeasement might avoid an irrational visit back to court or smooth over some of the joint decision making.

 

Right now what matters is that you have both the kids and your own best interest as a priority. As an extension of that, once things settle, you will find the path to handling the ex in a way that maximizes value for your kids and yourself.

 

I think one of the things you are seeing is her being the "yes" person and you being the "no" person paints you as the bad guy. It's a dirty move, but a real thing. How you counter is a matter of judgment and circumstance. There's no right answer. It's a chess game.

 

I think your counter move was fine. We planned it this way. The kids already have this expectation. Just document all that in a journal, or better yet, after the next handoff, send a "status" or handoff information email and include that you followed the original holiday plan as a side note. In the email you could thank her for her on the fly offer and make note of the kids prior expectations. Then again, depending on the circumstances and your judgment, not exposing her to any of your reasoning could be better. No right answer. Chess game.

 

Are you just separated? Officially separated? Divorced?

 

.

[mnnc]

The children are 8 and 5. We share joint custody of the children and they usually end up with me a few more days a month because of her work schedule but I am not complaining about that.

 

Yes, its unbelievable she had me move just for her to leave me 4 weeks later. Her response was "it was *****ty timing". Timing that she was in control of and worked out very nicely for her.

 

We are currently separated and have a legal separation agreement. In NC we have to be separated for one year before we can get divorced.

[mnnc]

Because it was not long ago that she decided that her path to personal happiness was to leave me and have an affair with an old flame. So, she was happy to rationalize putting her own feelings first THEN, but when I do the same, I am in the wrong?

 

Exactly! My wife did not put her kids as number one priority when she decided to throw her family to the side for her own selfishness. A couple of weeks ago she was suppose to have the kids on a Sunday for a few hours before she was to go to work later that night. Saturday night she calls and tells me she messed up her schedule and can't watch the kids the following day. She sounded upset and flustered. I honestly thought the hours she is working was taking a toll on her. I did not give her any grief and said I would watch them. That Monday morning, she picked up our son because I could not take him to school that morning. She takes my son back to her place (she lives in the same apartment complex I live in) until he is ready to go to school at 9:15 am. Later that day when I picked up my son, he tells me "Zach" was at mommy's apartment this morning and he had spent the night in her bed. So I could see now why she could not watch the kids on Sunday because she had more important things to do. I was so angry she had used me to watch the kids so she could spend those few hours of her day with him. What do I do? Do I send my kids to her when she might not really want them? I don't want my kids around him either but that is part of separation. What do you do? I live in an apartment with no friend or family while my wife who lives in an apartment on the other side of the complex has her boyfriend come in for weekend visits. I live in hell.

[Marc878]

Exactly! My wife did not put her kids as number one priority when she decided to throw her family to the side for her own selfishness. A couple of weeks ago she was suppose to have the kids on a Sunday for a few hours before she was to go to work later that night. Saturday night she calls and tells me she messed up her schedule and can't watch the kids the following day. She sounded upset and flustered. I honestly thought the hours she is working was taking a toll on her. I did not give her any grief and said I would watch them. That Monday morning, she picked up our son because I could not take him to school that morning. She takes my son back to her place (she lives in the same apartment complex I live in) until he is ready to go to school at 9:15 am. Later that day when I picked up my son, he tells me "Zach" was at mommy's apartment this morning and he had spent the night in her bed. So I could see now why she could not watch the kids on Sunday because she had more important things to do. I was so angry she had used me to watch the kids so she could spend those few hours of her day with him. What do I do? Do I send my kids to her when she might not really want them? I don't want my kids around him either but that is part of separation. What do you do? I live in an apartment with no friend or family while my wife who lives in an apartment on the other side of the complex has her boyfriend come in for weekend visits. I live in hell.

 

Hard 180 is your only answer. No phone calls, text or emails only. Keep it brief for kids or business only. She's told and shown you who she is. Believe it. Don't expect anything more.

 

Do you work?

[mnnc]

Hard 180 is your only answer. No phone calls, text or emails only. Keep it brief for kids or business only. She's told and shown you who she is. Believe it. Don't expect anything more.

 

Do you work?

 

Yes, I work remotely out of my apartment.

Edited March 28, 2017 by mnnc

[Marc878]

Think of it like this when you have your kids you get more bonding time and the ability to influence their lives more.

[Momof3littleones]

Exactly! My wife did not put her kids as number one priority when she decided to throw her family to the side for her own selfishness. A couple of weeks ago she was suppose to have the kids on a Sunday for a few hours before she was to go to work later that night. Saturday night she calls and tells me she messed up her schedule and can't watch the kids the following day. She sounded upset and flustered. I honestly thought the hours she is working was taking a toll on her. I did not give her any grief and said I would watch them. That Monday morning, she picked up our son because I could not take him to school that morning. She takes my son back to her place (she lives in the same apartment complex I live in) until he is ready to go to school at 9:15 am. Later that day when I picked up my son, he tells me "Zach" was at mommy's apartment this morning and he had spent the night in her bed. So I could see now why she could not watch the kids on Sunday because she had more important things to do. I was so angry she had used me to watch the kids so she could spend those few hours of her day with him. What do I do? Do I send my kids to her when she might not really want them? I don't want my kids around him either but that is part of separation. What do you do? I live in an apartment with no friend or family while my wife who lives in an apartment on the other side of the complex has her boyfriend come in for weekend visits. I live in hell.

 

That is terrible. I feel that way with my soon to be ex. I've had him say he was working after not seeing the kids for days, and it turned out he wasn't. Tonight he said he was working overtime which could be a lie and if it is, he saw the kids an hour this morning after not seeing them since last Thursday and won't see them until this Friday. It's infuriating when parents lie to do something else when they can be with their kids when they don't see them a lot as it is.

 

Also can you or her move out of that condo? You shouldn't have to worry about running into her or her boyfriend. It would be nice if you could be closer to family and friends.

[mnnc]

Also can you or her move out of that condo? You shouldn't have to worry about running into her or her boyfriend. It would be nice if you could be closer to family and friends.

 

My plan is to buy a house this coming fall after we get divorced. To be honest, I am lonely and get depressed. I do have hope because the company I work for has started expanding into NC. So I am hoping they open an office close by that I can start working out of. This will be a great way for me to get out and meet new people.

[The_Onceler]

... Later that day when I picked up my son, he tells me "Zach" was at mommy's apartment this morning and he had spent the night in her bed. So I could see now why she could not watch the kids on Sunday because she had more important things to do.

 

My ex did EXACTLY this.

 

The kids were off from school for a week between Christmas and New Year. I happened to have that week off as well, but we had previously agreed to continuing our custody pattern. However, as Christmas approached, she asked me to take the kids for most of the week, because she could not get the time off from work. She had only been at her new job for a few months, she explained, and did not yet have vacation time accrued.

 

So, I kept the kids with me. No harm there.

 

However, she then later asked me to adjust my schedule so that I could bring the kids to her for a brief evening visit, and then come back and fetch them again. I felt that she was going too far to make so many demands, and I felt that it would be bad for the kids to see her like that, so I said no. She got mad, and we argued a bit about it, but in the end, what could she do? But in the process, she made me out to be a terrible person. She accused me of "keeping the kids from her".

 

So, I kept the girls all week, and she did not get her "visit" with them.

 

But as it turned out, on one of those very days that she had originally been scheduled to have the kids, I had my niece (who is 21) come visit the kids. They wanted some "girl time", so they kicked me out of the house. I had a few errands to run, so that worked for me. One of my errands was to drop a bag of the kids' things at my ex's new place. Well, as I drove up in the late morning, I was surprised to find that her car was there. She had told me that she had to work (and she cannot work from home). I was even MORE surprised to find that her boyfriend was there.

 

I was LIVID. That was the very day where she had wanted me to bring the kids by in the evening, and then pick them back up again. I thought briefly about confronting them, but then decided against it.

 

I continued to be angry for a day or two, and thought about ways to bring it up to her that I knew what she was doing. But again, I refrained.

 

After a while, I realized, all that she was really guilty of was (1) lying to me, (2) attempting to manipulate me, and (3) putting her own desires ahead of the kids. I already knew to expect her to act selfish most times, so no real surprise there. All I needed to do was to remind myself that I could not trust her, and to proceed accordingly from now on. Also, I needed to wake up to the fact that she will happily lie in order to manipulate me.

 

So, in my estimation, she is selfish, manipulative liar. OK. Now that I know, I can deal with those things.

 

So can you.

[testmeasure]

.

 

I think the most important thing over the long haul is to document your time with the kids. Learn the word "precedent". Courts will assume it is in the kids best interest to continue what they are already adjusted to. The burden of proof will be on the person who wants to change that to show change is in the kids best interest.

 

I know right now it may seem like she is getting away with putting herself before the kids. Let her. Document clearly how much time you have the kids. Keep a parenting log. Turn the time/date stamp on for any camera you have. Find any way you can to keep a record of how things are.

 

The year of separation thing... In my state it's a different amount of time, but that's the amount of time before either party can force a divorce without the other's consent. Are you sure you have to wait a year if you reach an agreement to settle? Particularly if she's willing to let you have the kids a majority of the time without a fight due to other distractions, now could be a good time to get this resolved. Otherwise, just document how it is so it's harder to change.

 

My personal experience was high conflict over custody. I get that it could be disappointing if the other parent is lying about being able to spend time with the kids. It's an entirely different kind of disappointing if the other parent is lying in order to only allow you limited supervised contact. If she's willingly giving you a majority role in the kid's life, for whatever reason, even the wrong one, find a way to preserve that. Document it and see if there is a way to settle while she's still distracted.

 

.

[mnnc]

My ex did EXACTLY this.

 

The kids were off from school for a week between Christmas and New Year. I happened to have that week off as well, but we had previously agreed to continuing our custody pattern. However, as Christmas approached, she asked me to take the kids for most of the week, because she could not get the time off from work. She had only been at her new job for a few months, she explained, and did not yet have vacation time accrued.

 

So, I kept the kids with me. No harm there.

 

However, she then later asked me to adjust my schedule so that I could bring the kids to her for a brief evening visit, and then come back and fetch them again. I felt that she was going too far to make so many demands, and I felt that it would be bad for the kids to see her like that, so I said no. She got mad, and we argued a bit about it, but in the end, what could she do? But in the process, she made me out to be a terrible person. She accused me of "keeping the kids from her".

 

So, I kept the girls all week, and she did not get her "visit" with them.

 

But as it turned out, on one of those very days that she had originally been scheduled to have the kids, I had my niece (who is 21) come visit the kids. They wanted some "girl time", so they kicked me out of the house. I had a few errands to run, so that worked for me. One of my errands was to drop a bag of the kids' things at my ex's new place. Well, as I drove up in the late morning, I was surprised to find that her car was there. She had told me that she had to work (and she cannot work from home). I was even MORE surprised to find that her boyfriend was there.

 

I was LIVID. That was the very day where she had wanted me to bring the kids by in the evening, and then pick them back up again. I thought briefly about confronting them, but then decided against it.

 

I continued to be angry for a day or two, and thought about ways to bring it up to her that I knew what she was doing. But again, I refrained.

 

After a while, I realized, all that she was really guilty of was (1) lying to me, (2) attempting to manipulate me, and (3) putting her own desires ahead of the kids. I already knew to expect her to act selfish most times, so no real surprise there. All I needed to do was to remind myself that I could not trust her, and to proceed accordingly from now on. Also, I needed to wake up to the fact that she will happily lie in order to manipulate me.

 

So, in my estimation, she is selfish, manipulative liar. OK. Now that I know, I can deal with those things.

 

So can you.

 

It's unbelievable. It just blows me away how they can lie and manipulate. Then if things do not go their way, they tell everyone we are being the jerk. When My wife did this, I fumed for a day but I calmed down. I sent her a civil text and said

 

"Our son told me today on our way home you had a friend at your apartment this morning. A friend who had spent the night and had slept in your bed. That is not something I think our 8 year old son should be seeing right now but that is out of my control. I also see now why you called Saturday night to tell me you you got your days messed up on the calendar and could not watch them the following day. I have not bothered, harassed or got into your business. I don’t care what you do or who you do it with. However I will not tolerate being taking advantage of when it comes to taking care of our children. If you continue to abuse our custody schedule, it will be detrimental to our ability to work together for the kids."

 

She responds with another lie trying to cover herself. I ignored her and never responded back. I don't regret sending her the text. Will it make a difference? Probably not, but at least she knows I don't eat her BS.