Messaging men first on dating sites/apps

[Cookiesandough]

Do any ladies do this often? Dates/good conversation come from it? I always assume if he didn't message he's not interested enough to. Guys, how do you feel about being messaged first on apps? Do you usually message if you're really into the girl? Does it seem desperate? If she had a good conversation starter from your profile would that make you feel different?

[telemakus]

Do any ladies do this often? Dates/good conversation come from it? I always assume if he didn't message he's not interested enough to. Guys, how do you feel about being messaged first on apps? Do you usually message if you're really into the girl? Does it seem desperate? If she had a good conversation starter from your profile would that make you feel different?

 

Most men would be over the moon. A large percentage of guys will spend months sending out messages and getting little to nothing back.

[KBob]

Most men would be over the moon. A large percentage of guys will spend months sending out messages and getting little to nothing back.

 

Agreed. It's actually a nice break from us doing the leg work. As a woman you really don't need to say much, it's really no different than smiling at a guy at the bar, you just need something to catch his sight. A simple "that's cool you are into ___ " would suffice. He will message back, if he's interested.

[Popsicle]

Some guys have been on there for a while without good luck and have lost their drive to message women first anymore. Some are also very busy but still have a profile up. So, I will send a message first if I see the guy first, but I won't ask him out first. He has to do that. I just provide an opening.

[Cookiesandough]

Some guys have been on there for a while without good luck and have lost their drive to message women first anymore. Some are also very busy but still have a profile up. So, I will send a message first if I see the guy first, but I won't ask him out first. He has to do that. I just provide an opening.

 

What's your opener generally like? Just a simple greeting or something on his profile??

[PegNosePete]

I would give the same opening message advice I give guys who message women. A couple of sentences max, mention something on their profile, maybe use humour, ask ONE question that doesn't have yes/no answer. Oh and be selective - only spend your time messaging guys who you genuinely feel are a good match.

 

I'd say the biggest mistake for a woman messaging a man is to sound like a scammer. Scammers generally send just "hi" or make generic comments that can be copy/pasted to hundreds, they usually have terrible spelling/grammar, and often give phone number or alternate communication method in the first message. So avoid all of those things.

 

Many women on OLD sites swear they get much better matches when they do the initial messaging, rather than sitting there and waiting for the good guys to rain down on them.

[Jj66]

Sorry. Long post.

 

The proof is in the numbers. I have a friend who was a consultant for one of the major dating sites. He did studies about which strategies were the most successful. One thing that was clear was that women who messaged first were at a distinct ADVANTAGE over those who didn't.

 

I got a fair number of messages for a guy and only once thought it was desperate. Now quite a lot of the profiles on the other hand seemed extremely jaded, bitter, sad, desperate, or insert whatever negative adjective you want.

 

Before I took my profile down I took screen shots of many of the opening messages women had sent me. Some were memorable for being smooth and on point. Some were remarkable by how lame they are.

 

One was actually a form letter - from a real person apparently, no a scammer. It started out "Hi, I'm Patti. I liked your profile pic and write up and I think we have a lot in common...<snip>". The thing is, I had just joined. I had my picture up but hadn't written anything for my profile yet! Needless to say, no response. Poor lady was still on there 4 years later when I last checked the site. This is the one messaged who seemed desperate to me.

 

I often didn't respond and I realize now that must have been a blow to the ego. Why didn't I respond? Mainly because I was already talking to other people and find it hard to carry on multiple conversations. Time would pass and then I'd feel the iron had grown cold- it was too late to respond.

 

I was on OLD in multiple stints (5). I didn't message a single person first the first two times I had my profile up. I was getting enough dates from women messaging first.

 

I'd often respond to their messages with silly thing like "didn't your momma teach you never to talk to strangers?" if they didn't ask me a question. If they did ask me a question I'd respond with humor if at all possible.

 

Eventually, the third time I was on I had got more comfortable with the process and started messaging first. I kind of viewed it as a game. I'd try to tease them about something I saw in the profile. I obviously wasn't taking OLD seriously and I think many found that refreshing and attractive. I more often than not got a response, only once did I get an angry/indignant response to one of my teases.

 

The 4th and 5th stints were on tinder and I had been away from OLD for almost 3 years. I was only on tinder for a month or two total. I almost always messaged first on tinder but the first time through due to poor swiping strategy I had a lot of matches at the same time. I couldn't possibly message everyone.

 

The second time through, in March of last year I was very selective and slower in my swiping so a lot fewer matches. I met my gf after less than a week of being on. The remarkable thing was SHE hadn't even 'liked' me. She had given her phone to some friends when they were out at a bar to swipe for her. She said find me a boyfriend. In the process one of the friends accidentally super liked me. When I logged in I saw the blue frame - so and so super liked you. But she was well out of my 15 mile search radius. I couldn't say yes. But something intrigued me and I couldn't say no either. I logged out and back in. Swiped some more and she appeared in the stack again. Rinse and repeat. Log back in. Swipe a little and there she is. Rinse and repeat. I had to make a decision. Even though she was too far away it couldn't hurt anything to talk to her, so I liked her and sent her a message. If her friend had not accidentally super liked me we would never have met. She showed up in the blue frame in spite of being well out of my search radius. I don't believe in fate but it's was a fortunate accident that brought us together.

[salparadise]

What's your opener generally like? Just a simple greeting or something on his profile??

 

Definitely say something that relates back to his profile. Write a few sentences at least. Think in terms of conversations starters –– ask a question that requires an answer, ask for an opinion or a clarification on something he wrote. Don't be lame. Send the same kind of message you'd prefer to receive.

 

I usually wait for an indication that a woman is interested before messaging. I've just found that's the best way to get results without wasting my time. The indication can be a first message, multiple views, likes, etc. I think of it as being analogous to real life approaches... if a woman is interested, she'll give you a signal, otherwise it's a low probability situation.

[Popsicle]

What's your opener generally like? Just a simple greeting or something on his profile??

 

Either works for me.

[caveman621]

Definitely message him if you like. While I was on POF and OKCupid, I sent out a lot of messages to women. Not that I was desperate (OK, maybe a little!), but I just wanted to meet people. I think a lot of people are looking for the perfect match. My two cents: Go have a drink or something. If you don't like the person, you can let them know afterward when you are safe at home and block them if need be.

 

Anyway, a lot of messages to women would get no response. I truly appreciated it if they just replied, "Not interested". I would thank them and move on.

 

So....maybe I'm not the most attractive guy in the world? But I think in the year or so I was on, I got two, maybe three, unsolicited messages from women that were not scammers. So if they have my experience, he would be flattered if you messaged him first! I always assumed women got many, many unsolicited messages. Maybe, maybe not.

[thecrucible]

The guy I'm dating now I met on POF and I messaged him first. After that, he was the one who asked me to meet. My first message was one or two sentences. He had a picture of him doing a sport so I asked if he was an adrenalin junkie. I was sending a few first messages at the time so I didn't think about it too much or spend a long time crafting a message. It turns out that had a good result. Oh and before I deleted my profile, messaging men first had a far higher success rate in terms of finding quality matches. As long as they are the one suggesting the first date and making an effort to take it off the site, you know they have some interest in you.

[Erik30]

If the guy thinks you're cute, you can get away with just saying hi. Most of the girls who message me first actually do that. I don't really mind because at least that way I know they're interested and want to talk, so I'll start a conversation about something. (With the girls I like)

Edited April 3, 2017 by Erik30

[OatsAndHall]

I would be perfectly content with a woman messaging me. I'd like them to say something about my profile as that would tell me that we have a similar sense of humor. Or, just a funny, off-hand remark would suffice.

[normal person]

Do any ladies do this often? Dates/good conversation come from it?

 

Every online-initiated date I've been on has come from a woman messaging me first, or at least "winking" or "favoriting" or giving some other kind of green light.

 

I always assume if he didn't message he's not interested enough to.

 

Not true, at least for me. I always consider the circumstances and conditions. Women get inundated with messages, especially from guys who have no chance. Messaging that same women somehow puts you into a similar sort of league of those guys, i.e.: "Men who can't grab your attention on their own, so they have to message you." If you're messaging a woman, you're subconsciously telling her that no one else you like is messaging you. Not messaging is a differentiator. Better to not message and get her to message you (not always easy but can be done reliably if you know what you're doing) than allude to the fact that no one else wants to go out with you. Convey yourself as the prize rather than put her on a pedestal.

 

Guys, how do you feel about being messaged first on apps?

 

I'd rather women just do the initial messaging because they're inherently more selective, albeit not as forward. If the attitude amongst men was "just wait for the green light" rather than "message every single woman," the market and environment would shift and I think the experience would be better for all involved.

 

Do you usually message if you're really into the girl?

 

Never, unless she gives a "like," "wink," etc.

 

Does it seem desperate?

 

It depends on the message. "Desperate" is when women send you a paragraph long message trying to convince you how similar you both are. The more attractive way to do it is to just make a simple, concise, joke or engaging comment/observation and concede as little dignity as possible. The preferred vibe being "OK, I guess you're cool enough for me to crack wise with," and not "Omg hey we like all the same stuff like, x, y, z, and you're so funny!!!" Less is more.

 

If she had a good conversation starter from your profile would that make you feel different?

 

If she's not my type, even the greatest message won't be enough. I'll give a polite reply thanking her for it and making an excuse as to why I can't go out with her.

 

If I'm on the fence, the message might sway me one way or the other.

 

If she is my type (that is to say, if she just looks like it) but the message is terrible, I'll probably hesitate a bit.

 

If she is my type and the message is good, jackpot.

[gaius]

Probably the worst mistake you could make if you're looking for any kind of quality guy.

 

If a dude can't come up with something half interesting to say and bring himself to approach a woman he's attracted to online then we might as well just get him a vascetomy right now so he won't contaminate the gene pool. Seriously.

[Shining One]

Probably the worst mistake you could make if you're looking for any kind of quality guy.

 

If a dude can't come up with something half interesting to say and bring himself to approach a woman he's attracted to online then we might as well just get him a vascetomy right now so he won't contaminate the gene pool.

Quite the assumption on your part. There are reasons a man may not message a woman he's attracted to that don't involve fear or an inability to come up with something to say.

[salparadise]

If the guy thinks you're cute, you can get away with just saying hi. Most of the girls who message me first actually do that. I don't really mind because at least that way I know they're interested and want to talk, so I'll start a conversation about something. (With the girls I like)

 

Bzzzzt. Maybe you can get away with it, but I'm skeptical of women who do that. I answer those with "hey" or just delete it. It's kind of insulting for them to think I'm going to shift into hot pursuit mode in response to "hi." But then I'm a believer in equality and reciprocity, and not everyone is. In my opinion, the shortest acceptable message is a good sentence.

[normal person]

Bzzzzt. Maybe you can get away with it, but I'm skeptical of women who do that. I answer those with "hey" or just delete it. It's kind of insulting for them to think I'm going to shift into hot pursuit mode in response to "hi." But then I'm a believer in equality and reciprocity, and not everyone is. In my opinion, the shortest acceptable message is a good sentence.

 

Yeah, I'm with you here. It's always kind of a bummer when you see you've got a message from someone really attractive and then you click it to reveal "Hi, how's your weekend going," or something equally trivial. It just makes me immediately think the person has a lack of judgment and originality. She read a whole profile and that's the best she could come up with, even while knowing her message was going to get scrutinized? It's not a great first impression.

[The_Thall_Man]

Do any ladies do this often? Dates/good conversation come from it? I always assume if he didn't message he's not interested enough to. Guys, how do you feel about being messaged first on apps? Do you usually message if you're really into the girl? Does it seem desperate? If she had a good conversation starter from your profile would that make you feel different?

 

I almost never message first on online dating. I tried for the longest to be the one who reaches out. It's a complete waste of time, IME.

 

People rarely message me, and when they do, they're not ones I'm even remotely interested or compatible with. I get the impression that they're not using the search filters and/or reading my profile.

Edited April 17, 2017 by The_Thall_Man

[Dark Horse]

I feel like more women should message first, like for real what is stopping women from messaging guys first? It's stupid that women don't do this. If a decently attractive girl messages a guy first, the reply rate is super high as opposed to the other way around. Trust me if you're a decently attractive girl and you message the guy first, unless he's brain-dead, he's almost likely going to respond.

 

If you're smart, you'll take advantage of this and actually start approaching men. It's so much easier, you can walk up to any guy and unless he has a girlfriend, he's not going to reject you.

[normal person]

like for real what is stopping women from messaging guys first?

 

1). The social convention that men are pursuers and women are the pursued

2). The stigma attached with being a woman who can't get a man on her own merits so she has to initiate herself

3). The fear of rejection being amplified considering that as a woman, she should supposedly be able to have anyone she wants

4). General shyness or fear

5). Lack of desirable men

 

Plenty of women do message first -- but they message men they find desirable, for whom they are willing to circumvent the above conditions, not just "any" guy.

 

It's stupid that women don't do this.

 

How is it stupid? It's market value. If a girl doesn't need to message men, she won't have to. If she does, she will or won't get market value in return for what she's bringing to the table. It's not stupid at all, it's the circumstances of the market. It makes perfect sense.

 

Trust me if you're a decently attractive girl and you message the guy first, unless he's brain-dead, he's almost likely going to respond.

 

Wrong again. Assuming he's "likely to respond" is to assume he has no other options or obligations. And a guy like that probably isn't going to get that many messages to begin with.

 

I have plenty of messages from decently attractive women, as I'm sure many guys do. I'm far from brain-dead, the problem is they don't meet my standards, and I'm not wasting my time and money on someone who isn't worth it to me.

 

Think about a the kind of guys a decently attractive girl has at her disposal. Then think about why she would then disregard all those throwaway men -- likely because she wants someone better. If she has to message that "better" man, it's because he has a higher market value than she does. And likely she's not the only one messaging him, so if she's only "decently attractive," she's going to be competing for this guy with girls who are "very attractive" and she's not likely to do too well. The girl who thinks she's too good for all the bums who message her, but isn't good enough for the guy she wants to message her, therefore having to message him is not in as great of a spot as you'd think.

 

Regardless of gender, if you find yourself in a position where you have to message someone rather than just pick from the people who have messaged you, you don't have as much leverage as you might need. If you have to message someone, you're basically broadcasting the fact that you want their time and attention and you weren't getting it previously -- that's a vulnerability that lowers your value. If you have to message someone, it's an admission of defeat against that person -- you want their time and attention seemingly more than they want yours. You give them leverage, you lower yourself and empower them to decide your fate.

 

If you're smart, you'll take advantage of this and actually start approaching men.

 

If they're smart, they'll follow their instincts and be cautious, decisive, and deliberate about the men they invest in relationships with. Do you think women just desire any generic man and the only thing stopping them from getting one was that they're not "smart" enough to realize that they can simply approach one? The reason they don't is because they don't have to.

 

It's so much easier, you can walk up to any guy and unless he has a girlfriend, he's not going to reject you.

 

Do you really think some women are single due to a lack of ease or understanding that they can approach a man, and not any sort of hesitation or discernment about who they want to date? Women are a lot smarter than you seemingly give them credit for. Just because they don't want to go out with "any" guy doesn't mean they don't know that they could in a microsecond if they wanted to.

[Cookiesandough]

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that the person who does the approaching has lower dating "market value" Someone has to? They may be shy, they may be doing it offhandly? They may have many options who have many more options than the person they are approaching, but find that person interesting for their own weird reasons?

 

I don't see it that way, at least, but I agree with everything else

Edited April 17, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[normal person]

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that the person who does the approaching has lower dating "market value" Someone has to? They may be shy, they may be doing it offhandly? They may have many options who have many more options than the person they are approaching, but find that person interesting for their own weird reasons?

 

I don't see it that way, at least, but I agree with everything else

 

Keep in mind that's a general statement. Admittedly it's not always so cut and dry, there are a lot of nuances to it, but the basic principle is that whoever desires the other person more will message. If you have options and contentment with what you're getting as it is, you don't have to message anyone because the market has determined your value. When you message someone, you're essentially saying, "I'm not content with the people messaging me as is (my current options), so I'm seeking something of higher value and willing to message on my own for it." You're saying "I'm not content with what I have, I want you," but in doing so you're deferring to that person and empowering them. You're giving them the power to determine if you're valuable enough for them to spend their time and attention on. It's just a breakdown of why certain people don't respond to some people, message others, etc.

 

You assess what your current options are, whether or not you're happy with them or not, and make a decision to try and go out with someone better than the current options or not. The person you message will make the same assessments. At some point, hopefully, your selection will see your message and consider you a good use of his/her time or attention, and you get to go out.

[SwordofFlame]

As a guy, I rarely get messaged first by women. I have to say though, in the rare cases that I did, most of the time they were so unattractive that I wouldn't even have a one-night stand with them if they freely offered.

 

I'm not against women messaging first, but if you're aiming for way above your "league" so to speak, don't expect any more success than men who do the same.

[normal person]

As a guy, I rarely get messaged first by women. I have to say though, in the rare cases that I did, most of the time they were so unattractive that I wouldn't even have a one-night stand with them if they freely offered.

 

I'm not against women messaging first, but if you're aiming for way above your "league" so to speak, don't expect any more success than men who do the same.

 

This guy gets it.