How I fixed my sexless marriage (continuing my post from 2009)

[Martian]

Hello LoveShack!

 

I don't know how often this happens but I posted here 8 years ago:

 

"I don't think my wife can love me any more"

 

I thought I'd check back.

 

15 years of low sex marriage

 

To recap. After years of sexual rejections I was in a pathetic state and made a few pathetic posts that are painful to read now. On the verge of mental breakdown on the verge of cheating.

 

Wife told me straight up that she doesn't love me any more and we should stay together for the kids. That was almost rock bottom.

 

Our marriage followed a predictable pattern: almost no sex, I wanted to leave, hysterical bonding commenced for a few days / weeks then things slided back to the old normal. Repeat every 2-3 years. I chickened out every time.

 

I somehow got by averaging 0-2 times a month, but it was taking a heavy toll on me. There were times when we didn't have sex at all for a whole year.

 

Breakdown

 

Roughly 2 years ago I came close to a mental breakdown. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't work. I would just sit on a bench in a park staring at the horizon and thinking about divorce.

 

I was going to lose my job. I realize that this relationship unsustainable.

 

I wrote her an emotional letter. Pouring out my feelings. She just cried and played the victim. (For me daring to put pressure on her.)

 

A new approach

 

Shortly after I decided that I've run out of ****s to give.

 

I was ready to give my marriage one last try. But I also marked a D-Day on the calendar at which point I would divorce her unless our sex life was functional. I didn't tell her.

 

But my mindset was: if my wife wouldn't **** me than some other woman will.

 

And I began implementing a new approach.

 

• I realized that instead of supplicating her, and trying to earn her goodwill by treating her like a princess, I won't give my time and attention unconditionally any more.
  
• In almost every aspect of our relationship (outside sex) I decided that I won't give her more than she gives me. Messages, discussions, phone calls, hugs, presents, "I love yous" etc.
  
• I started working out like a maniac (again). Lost 40 pounds from my peak weight and gained a significant amount of muscle. I'm in the best shape of my life and still going.
  
• In general I stopped giving a **** about her feelings and moods. I was ready to give her a hug any time she was sad or upset, but at the start of any kind of hostile, disrespectful behavior or accusatory tone, I would either turn the conversation into a joke or leave.
  
• I started to prepare for single life. I started cooking and taking care of my **** in general. In addition to physical improvements I started grooming much more seriously. Started researching men's clothing. Completely replaced my wardrobe.
  
• I completely eliminated any signs of needyness on my part. I don't talk to her about my feelings ever. (I do still listen to her when she talks about hers.)
  
• It was hard, but I trained myself not to get pissed about sexual rejections. (Took a couple of months.) I initiate a lot and when I get rejected I disengage and try again the next day.
  
• I became much more dominant in the bedroom.
  

 

 

A painful transition

 

All these changes freaked her out initially.

 

It was a painful period for her. She started going to a therapist. She cried a lot. A few weeks in she said I need to seek professional help and that she wanted a divorce. I hugged her and told her to sleep on it.

 

She threatened to take the kids and leave. She disappeared for 3 days with them without saying anything. I realized that it was just her attempt at drama so I simply ignored it.

 

Many times she tried to shame me out of my approach. Shame me for dressing and grooming better, calling me a metrosexual. Shaming my diet. (She's still fat.) Shaming my workouts. (She doesn't do any sports.) Accusing me of wanting to live a playboy life []. Every time I laughed at her and carried on.

 

She called me a psychopath. I laughed and carried on.

 

She told me that she needs me to talk about my feelings. She needs to feel close to be sexually attracted to me. I heard this song before (15 years of nearly sexless marriage!), but this time I ignored it. Drew her close and put a big kiss on her head. Then carried on.

 

I got a vasectomy. She freaked out. I ignored her drama and carried on.

 

I got paternity tests. She freaked out. I ignored her drama and carried on.

 

Initially, she tried to combat all this by weaponizing sex. In turn I withdrew my time and attention. I wouldn't give it unconditionally any more. This let to cold wars that could last multiple weeks. She slept in a separate room and we wouldn't talk to each other. She called me abusive, cried and made sure I saw the waterworks. I ignored it and carried on.

 

It was rough. I wasn't sure if we would stay together. But I carried on, counting down the days towards D-Day.

 

This lasted a couple of months with many ups and downs.

 

The new normal

 

2 years later we're having the most and best sex we ever had in our 20+ years of relationship. It's mind boggling.

 

She got a husband who is in shape, well dressed, who takes care of the kids and the household. I don't whine, I don't complain. Any trace of my old needyness is gone.

 

I take her on dates, I take her on surprise trips abroad. But I also initiate sex a lot. And it's very different sex than in our first 18 years together. And when we have it she touches my muscles she told me she didn't like ("only bar [women] care about muscles").

 

I still love my wife. She is my high school sweetheart and a devoted mother of my children. But she can't coast on that alone any more. She has to be a decent wife (not just a good mom) otherwise I won't think twice about divorcing her. I don't tell this to her, but she can feel it.

 

She seems happy now. The crying is gone. The disrespect is gone.

 

 

Thanks Loveshack for letting me vent back in 2009. It's been a long journey.

 

Keep on trucking!

Edited March 28, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language ~6

[grays]

Wow! Amazing story! Good for you!

 

I gotta say tho, she doesnt sound super loveable.

[CaliforniaGirl]

So how were the kids after all this frightening drama of tears, threats, packing bags to randomly leave the home not knowing if they were coming back, jeering and mocking one another....for two long years?

 

But at least you're getting sex now.

 

#priorities

[NTV]

How old were the kids at the time?

[Life lessons]

That's amazing!! Good for you! Good luck and I hope your wife sees the efforts you have made and are continuing to make and that in return helps her to be a better person...for you....for the children and for herself.

[oldshirt]

Well played Martian, well played.

 

Did you by chance start reading and implementing Athol Kay's "Married Man Sex Life" material?

 

That is almost step by step his process.

[dichotomy]

How long has the amazing sex been going on now?

 

But ya know you more or less followed the books of Athol Kay on this.

 

and the bottom line is you prepared yourself for either outcome - also part of his books plan. That is if you could stand loosing your kids.

 

I hope the rest of what she is to you (outside of sex) is also very good.

[road]

God for you.

[Martian]

How old were the kids at the time?

 

9 and 16.

 

So how were the kids after all this frightening drama of tears, threats, packing bags to randomly leave the home not knowing if they were coming back, jeering and mocking one another....for two long years?

 

But at least you're getting sex now.

 

#priorities

 

Valid concern. I didn't write about the kids in my OP.

 

We were ****ty husband and wife but always a good parenting unit.

 

We both seriously considered staying together for the kids. That's pretty much what happened tbh, but it was not openly declared.

 

I wanted to walk many times from this marriage (starting only a few months in when I found out about her EA) but the thought of some ******* stranger raising my kids always made me furious.

 

Once I realized that we have enough money in the bank that she wouldn't have to move countries after the divorce (we're expats) I became much less anxious about the kids' future and not being able to see them.

 

When I started this thing the default outcome was divorce. I think the kids got through this process with maybe 2-5% of the drama that a divorce would entail.

 

And since I made the decision I appreciated every minute I spent with the kids so much more. Every math homework, every board game play was so much more precious, because I knew they were a very finite resource.

 

I read stoics among other things recently and they call it "negative visualization". It makes you appreciate what you have and derive a great amount of happiness from it. In my case time with the children.

 

Also during this time I started making proper family dinners into a thing. I make an effort to sit down with them every day if possible and talk about what's happening, make jokes and just be together.

 

 

I learned in my years after talking to friends and family members that dysfunctional couples are very good at putting up a front. I believe that we managed to do that for the kids. (Heck, some years we even convinced ourselves that we were in a healthy marriage.)

 

There was no shouting, throwing things, slamming doors.

 

When she disappeared with the kids, it was an organized trip she took with other families, she just kept it secret from me as a power play. From the kids perspective, they spent a weekend at a resort with other families and kids.

 

 

I'm not saying everything is flawless. We have different views in how much drama is it ok to do in front of the kids. Sometimes she would cry or argue with me when the kids are in the next room. It did occur a couple of times that it stressed them out. I find this selfish. Wife says it's healthy and they should learn how to deal with conflict this way. I strongly disagree and I told her. When she can't help herself she takes a long walk until she calms down.

 

 

TL;DR: compared to a divorce, the kids came out pretty much unscathed. Which is good for everyone.

[Martian]

How long has the amazing sex been going on now?

 

Well it started a couple of months in. It was mind blowing. We had more sex in a month than an entire year of marriage before.

 

But it was interspersed with drama and 'cold wars'. I'd say things stabilized after about 12 months.

 

 

But ya know you more or less followed the books of Athol Kay on this.

 

 

 

Yes, his book was an eye opener.

 

Other big influences were:

 

• No More Mr. Nice Guy
  
• When I Say No I Feel Guilty
  
• Extreme Ownership
  
• The stoic classics: Seneca, Marcus Aurelius, Epictetus
  

 

and the bottom line is you prepared yourself for either outcome - also part of his books plan. That is if you could stand loosing your kids.

 

I hope the rest of what she is to you (outside of sex) is also very good.

 

 

I've known her since we were 14. We started dating as teenagers. We spent 24 years together.

 

She is a great devoted mom. She is smart. In 'peace time' she is low drama. I still see in her the girl I fell in love with.

 

But we never learned how to be a couple. We went from high school / college girlfriend and boyfriend living with our parents to mom and dad in one go. (Oopsie baby.)

 

We never learned to be husband and wife before. We didn't have a "normal" baseline. Being mom and dad, yes. That part worked pretty well.

[lucy_in_disguise]

Thank you for sharing. There are not many real-life stories of a positive outcome like this, and I applaud you for having the determination and moral resolve to fix your marriage without straying outside of it, and sticking with a plan long enough for it to work. Your wife is lucky, and I am glad you are both happy now.

[oldshirt]

A new approach

 

Shortly after I decided that I've run out of ****s to give.

 

I was ready to give my marriage one last try. But I also marked a D-Day on the calendar at which point I would divorce her unless our sex life was functional. I didn't tell her.

 

But my mindset was: if my wife wouldn't **** me than some other woman will.

 

And I began implementing a new approach.

 

• I realized that instead of supplicating her, and trying to earn her goodwill by treating her like a princess, I won't give my time and attention unconditionally any more.
  
• In almost every aspect of our relationship (outside sex) I decided that I won't give her more than she gives me. Messages, discussions, phone calls, hugs, presents, "I love yous" etc.
  
• I started working out like a maniac (again). Lost 40 pounds from my peak weight and gained a significant amount of muscle. I'm in the best shape of my life and still going.
  
• In general I stopped giving a **** about her feelings and moods. I was ready to give her a hug any time she was sad or upset, but at the start of any kind of hostile, disrespectful behavior or accusatory tone, I would either turn the conversation into a joke or leave.
  
• I started to prepare for single life. I started cooking and taking care of my **** in general. In addition to physical improvements I started grooming much more seriously. Started researching men's clothing. Completely replaced my wardrobe.
  
• I completely eliminated any signs of needyness on my part. I don't talk to her about my feelings ever. (I do still listen to her when she talks about hers.)
  
• It was hard, but I trained myself not to get pissed about sexual rejections. (Took a couple of months.) I initiate a lot and when I get rejected I disengage and try again the next day.
  
• I became much more dominant in the bedroom.
  

 

 

A painful transition

 

All these changes freaked her out initially.

 

It was a painful period for her. She started going to a therapist. She cried a lot. A few weeks in she said I need to seek professional help and that she wanted a divorce. I hugged her and told her to sleep on it.

 

She threatened to take the kids and leave. She disappeared for 3 days with them without saying anything. I realized that it was just her attempt at drama so I simply ignored it.

 

Many times she tried to shame me out of my approach. Shame me for dressing and grooming better, calling me a metrosexual. Shaming my diet. (She's still fat.) Shaming my workouts. (She doesn't do any sports.) Accusing me of wanting to live a playboy life and **** sluts. Every time I laughed at her and carried on.

 

She called me a psychopath. I laughed and carried on.

 

She told me that she needs me to talk about my feelings. She needs to feel close to be sexually attracted to me. I heard this song before (15 years of nearly sexless marriage!), but this time I ignored it. Drew her close and put a big kiss on her head. Then carried on.

 

I got a vasectomy. She freaked out. I ignored her drama and carried on.

 

I got paternity tests. She freaked out. I ignored her drama and carried on.

 

Initially, she tried to combat all this by weaponizing sex. In turn I withdrew my time and attention. I wouldn't give it unconditionally any more. This let to cold wars that could last multiple weeks. She slept in a separate room and we wouldn't talk to each other. She called me abusive, cried and made sure I saw the waterworks. I ignored it and carried on.

 

It was rough. I wasn't sure if we would stay together. But I carried on, counting down the days towards D-Day.

 

This lasted a couple of months with many ups and downs.

 

 

This above should be a sticky. Any time someone writes a "woe-is-me" story about how their wife doesn't want to touch them, we can post the sticky and tell them this is their Blueprint and algorithm.

 

The caveat is exactly what Martian has said above though - ".....she would freak......" This process breaks the status quo. It causes a disturbance. It threatens the stability and it risks people tossing in the towel and walking away.

 

For Martian it worked to save the marriage and relationship. For a number of others it will not. Some people will opt out. For some the low-desire spouse will not like the new person that the other partner has become. For others the person making the transformation will realize that they have other, better options out there.

 

But the carry away point here is the status quo will be broken either way. This only works when someone is at their breaking point and are truly ready, willing and able to walk.

[AMarriedMan]

9 and 16.

 

Valid concern. I didn't write about the kids in my OP.

 

We were ****ty husband and wife but always a good parenting unit.

 

We both seriously considered staying together for the kids. That's pretty much what happened tbh, but it was not openly declared.

 

I wanted to walk many times from this marriage (starting only a few months in when I found out about her EA) but the thought of some ******* stranger raising my kids always made me furious.

 

Once I realized that we have enough money in the bank that she wouldn't have to move countries after the divorce (we're expats) I became much less anxious about the kids' future and not being able to see them.

 

When I started this thing the default outcome was divorce. I think the kids got through this process with maybe 2-5% of the drama that a divorce would entail.

 

And since I made the decision I appreciated every minute I spent with the kids so much more. Every math homework, every board game play was so much more precious, because I knew they were a very finite resource.

 

I read stoics among other things recently and they call it "negative visualization". It makes you appreciate what you have and derive a great amount of happiness from it. In my case time with the children.

 

Also during this time I started making proper family dinners into a thing. I make an effort to sit down with them every day if possible and talk about what's happening, make jokes and just be together.

 

 

I learned in my years after talking to friends and family members that dysfunctional couples are very good at putting up a front. I believe that we managed to do that for the kids. (Heck, some years we even convinced ourselves that we were in a healthy marriage.)

 

There was no shouting, throwing things, slamming doors.

 

When she disappeared with the kids, it was an organized trip she took with other families, she just kept it secret from me as a power play. From the kids perspective, they spent a weekend at a resort with other families and kids.

 

 

I'm not saying everything is flawless. We have different views in how much drama is it ok to do in front of the kids. Sometimes she would cry or argue with me when the kids are in the next room. It did occur a couple of times that it stressed them out. I find this selfish. Wife says it's healthy and they should learn how to deal with conflict this way. I strongly disagree and I told her. When she can't help herself she takes a long walk until she calms down.

 

TL;DR: compared to a divorce, the kids came out pretty much unscathed. Which is good for everyone.

 

What an inspirational story! But you took a conscious risk of losing everything. While you maintained a relatively peaceful exterior, internally you were in full-on war mode, prepared for every possible outcome.

 

I agree with you on dealing with marital conflict by crying and arguing in front of the children. Dealing with conflict like that is bad in general. It is particularly bad between parents in front of the children as it is stressful for them.

[AMarriedMan]

You said you were expats. Do you live in a country with a traditional culture and the divorce laws reflecting this? If so, it would be a different thing to try and pull this off in an English-speaking country with gynocentric divorce laws.

[jenkins95]

Martian!

 

On a forum where we see so much pain, suffering and broken people, it is great to read such a positive thread. The idea that marriage is hard work is something of a cliche, but you are living proof of it and that if you stick to it, the rewards can be amazing.

 

So happy for you. You deserve it. Keep it up...and please, please stay around on LS. Your experience and advice will be invaluable to so many people struggling in their marriages!

 

 

But we never learned how to be a couple. We went from high school / college girlfriend and boyfriend living with our parents to mom and dad in one go. (Oopsie baby.)

 

We never learned to be husband and wife before. We didn't have a "normal" baseline. Being mom and dad, yes. That part worked pretty well.

 

This really stuck a chord with me, and I'm going to hit some of the books that have been mentioned on this thread, and hit them hard. Me and my wife are naturally naive, happy-go-lucky people, fell madly in love as students and drifted into marriage in a similar way to you. We never considered that it may be hard work - and when we started hitting issues, we didn't know what to do! To my shame, I ended up having an affair to deal with my dissatisfaction, which hurt us (and others so much). Dumbest thing I ever did in my life.

 

But I've been given another chance and I want to make our marriage amazing again. This thread is inspiration! Thanks for coming back to us!

Edited March 28, 2017 by jenkins95

[Ramsey1982]

You said you became much more dominant in bed. Could you please elaborate? Did you just do, whatever you wanted? I'm naturally dominant in bed, but my wife doesn't seem to enjoy being dominated.....anymore. She did early on, before marriage. It's very frustrating.

[Martian]

You said you became much more dominant in bed. Could you please elaborate?

 

It's painful to talk about this, but here it goes.

 

During the dark years of my marriage sex was so scarce that I made do with pity handjobs.

 

When sex actually happened, I was so eager to please her and make it a positive experience with her that I completely deprioritized my own needs in the bedroom.

 

She had her own hangups and had trouble verbalizing what she wanted. Missionary while she was "lying back and thinking of England" a.k.a. the silent starfish was a step up from the handjobs. Didn't happen often.

 

But after my fixing attempt I knew I wanted more. Very early on I made her fill out a sex quiz, but literally nothing came out of it. (It might have been too early, when she wasn't really attracted to me yet).

 

Later on I decided that just like in other areas of my life, I'm going to be more assertive in the bedroom and just try things. I wasn't sure how she'd react. (Esp. after she insisted that vanilla is all she wanted and that she's not that kind of girl.)

 

I researched and shopped for sex toys, different vibrators, collars, ball gags, blindfolds, handcuffs etc.

 

I started simply telling her what to do and carefully upped the ante over time. And amazingly there was no resistance. Light choking, hair pulling, ass slapping, anal play. It just all worked and she came harder than ever.

 

I would have had been completely ok with her saying no to a number of things, but that just hasn't happened yet.

 

 

Just to paint a picture of the transformation from 3 years ago. Sexless marriage with the occasional pity handjob. She is upset that I get touchy feely at the kitchen counter. "Why do you have to turn everything sexual?! Can't we just hug?!"

 

My touch literally creeps her out. My masculine identity is being destroyed day by day. I'm being shamed and feel like a pervert / rapist.

 

 

Today: all kinds of ass slapping, french kissing and sexual touch during the day. She actually comes up to me. I motorboat her cleavage and she likes it. I just throw her around in the bedroom and stuff that was unimaginable even during our hormone filled teenage years is suddenly on the table.

 

Turns out that my new version can get away with 50x more stuff that from the old me would have had been just creepy.

 

It's surreal. If someone told me this 3 years ago I would have laughed them in the face.

[Martian]

You said you were expats. Do you live in a country with a traditional culture and the divorce laws reflecting this? If so, it would be a different thing to try and pull this off in an English-speaking country with gynocentric divorce laws.

 

I have a recently divorced friend here. One child, ex works part time. Half his paycheck goes towards alimony and child support. That's roughly what I would have expected myself. (Or higher even given that I have 2 kids and wife doesn't work.)

 

As I mentioned for me it was not a question any more. My mental health was in such a bad shape that I couldn't keep my job unless I fixed my situation. I suffered from a bad case of insomnia, couldn't concentrate at all. I literally just stared into the distance. Made some excuse at work to leave for an 'errand' so I can go and sob on a park bench.

 

My wife is a SAHM, she never worked in her life. My whole family's livelihood was at risk.

 

It was very, very bad.

 

But this has brought clarity to my situation. Maintaining the status quo was not an option.

[oldshirt]

How do people link a post to another thread?

 

I have the feeling I will be referencing this this thread periodically in the future.

[jenkins95]

How do people link a post to another thread?

 

I have the feeling I will be referencing this this thread periodically in the future.

 

It's a good thread isn't it!

 

oldshirt, with this thread open, you can just copy the URL from the address bar at the top of your browser window. Then just paste the URL into another post on any thread. When published, it won't show the URL, it will show the title of the thread and will act as a hyperlink to it.

Edited March 28, 2017 by jenkins95

[SammySammy]

Why did this work?

 

What are the lessons you learned and other men should be aware of?

[JuneL]

OP: It must take a lot of discipline to do all this. Just curious: Is your wife still in decent shape physically after having two kids? Has she also started working out and dressing better like you?

[NTV]

How did you manage time to get fit? That's where I lose out. Always feeling guilty when I don't spend spare time with the kids.

[CaliforniaGirl]

How did you manage time to get fit? That's where I lose out. Always feeling guilty when I don't spend spare time with the kids.

 

Not the OP, but...

 

1. It takes a whole lot less time not to eat, than it does to eat.

 

2. If you can spend 30 minutes on the internet ignoring your kids, you can spend 30 minutes with hand held dumbbells doing a YouTube routine.

 

I do both of these things and still spend plenty of time and then some with my kids. You can surely spend 30 minutes a day to work out, and it takes no time at all to not prep and then eat food or to not run out for junk and then sit around and eat it, sauteing protein and veggies for dinner takes probably 4 minutes for cutting everything up and 20 minutes of walking back every 5 minutes or so to give everything a stir...it is a total myth that not being unhealthy takes up hours of your time every single day.

 

Plus, you can take long walks with your kids or play ball with them, and they can get in on the cooking. Voila, time with the kids. My kids and husband and I walked a couple miles today with the kids on their scooters...they loved it. Then while they were bathing I did my light weights workout.

 

Good luck. You can do it.

[Martian]

OP: It must take a lot of discipline to do all this. Just curious: Is your wife still in decent shape physically after having two kids? Has she also started working out and dressing better like you?

 

No, she's still overweight. Not obese, but overweight.