How I fixed my sexless marriage (continuing my post from 2009)

[wmacbride]

I don't blame her. Attraction is not a choice. I understand now that the idea of sex with a man to whom a woman is not attracted to is different from just another chore. It's not simple laziness or complacency.

 

For many women their body is literally repulsed by the idea of sex like this and pushing through can be a traumatic, almost rape like experience.

 

I obviously don't want this.

 

Just like most of us, I want to be wanted.

 

I understand, and that is something you definitely deserve. You sound like a decent guy who has a lot of love to give.

[wmacbride]

I'm not going to apologize for having standards. If she told me on our first date that we'd be celibate after we married I would have walked away right then and there.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to aim for a romantic relationship with actual sexual desire and a mutually satisfying sex life. If we're not compatible that way, it's not her fault, then I want to find out and move on. Then she and I both can go and find partners who actually want us.

 

I spent 15 years in a room mate marriage and it turned me into a mental wreck. I have a few years left before I get old and sick, I want to spend those with someone who appreciates me.

 

 

Also: I literally can't go back to the old status quo without some sort of heavy medication.

 

again, I will ask you if you have actually asked her if she is happy with the new you. Forget about her responses to your sexual advances when you answer that question.

 

I know it sounds like I am sticking up for the your wife, but I actually thinking more of you. There are many women out there who would love you and want to be with you, and you wouldn't have to have divorce in the back of your mind.

 

You also indicate that she hasn't exactly been the most faithful person in the world, and I don't like to think of people having to go through that more than once. Do you feel like she has worked through that facet of her personality and found better ways to behave?

 

( btw, I do apologize if it sounds like I am picking away at you. I don't want to do that, as you sound like a guy who has been through a huge amount of crap already)

[somanymistakes]

While I'm uncomfortable with the idea of the OP pushing this as the cure for ALL marriages (because it really isn't), if he thinks he and his wife are both actually happier this way I don't see much to be gained from second-guessing him.

 

It is not true that all women want alphas to control their lives. It is absolutely true that some do. (And more want their partner to be decisive sometimes, if not all the time. Many people, male or female, would like their partner to be decisive and proactive at least some of the time!)

 

Declaring boundaries for yourself and letting your spouse decide whether she wants to deal with them or not is not a wrong thing to do.

[Onnanoko]

Of course I'm biased, but I'd like to think that she got an improved husband.

 

I take her on surprise trips, I'm more spontantenous, more fun. I worked hard to eliminate all kinds of passive aggressive behavior. I set higher standards for myself. For what I eat, for what I spend my time with (e.g. home improvement instead of video games). I don't get butthurt, I never complain.

 

I commend you for your efforts to improve yourself in the goal of improving your marriage. At least you are trying.

 

Even if your efforts end up not improving your marriage overall, at least you can bow out knowing that you've done everything in your power to save your marriage - that you've left no stone unturned; and that your wife has seen and has been on the receiving end of your efforts. It isn't easy re-inventing yourself and changing facets of your personality as well as changing your way of thinking.

 

If I was your wife, I would be grateful and appreciative of these new changes in you (and I would let you know that I was) - even if the marriage ended up not working out. You are trying your very best...and at the end of the day, this is all you can do.

[RedBaron2765]

I'm not going to apologize for having standards. If she told me on our first date that we'd be celibate after we married I would have walked away right then and there.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to aim for a romantic relationship with actual sexual desire and a mutually satisfying sex life. If we're not compatible that way, it's not her fault, then I want to find out and move on. Then she and I both can go and find partners who actually want us.

 

I spent 15 years in a room mate marriage and it turned me into a mental wreck. I have a few years left before I get old and sick, I want to spend those with someone who appreciates me.

 

 

Also: I literally can't go back to the old status quo without some sort of heavy medication.

 

The bolded part hits me - this says it all. On our first date, we got naked and somewhat physical (in baseball parlance, we got to third base and even halfway home that night) - little did I know that it would end up where we have sex maybe every year or two.

[Martian]

So how much did you lose on the kelo diet and where'd you start off? How quickly did it come off?

 

I'm 6", my absolute worst was 207 lbs, I'm currently 162. I now worry more about gaining muscle.

 

Lost about 2 lbs per week.

[NTV]

I think that there was some debate here on whether your wife has been boxed into a corner somehow forced to accept this new you and blah blah blah. It seemed like several folks nit picked different pieces of what you've said.

 

Ultimately though you sound infinitely happier with yourself and now confident that you will be happy in the future with yourself with or without her. I think the moral of the story is to get to that place more than anything else. Someone else could literally get there by doing the opposite, I.e. stop trying to self improve or try in their marriage and play video games all the time.

 

And knowing first hand how it feels to live in a way where your wife's happiness is your responsibility but no matter what you fail... yeah. There is no success to he had there.

 

That old addage 'happy wife happy life' is a giant lie. I only wish that I had learned that much earlier in my marriage.

[central]

I'm not going to apologize for having standards. If she told me on our first date that we'd be celibate after we married I would have walked away right then and there.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to aim for a romantic relationship with actual sexual desire and a mutually satisfying sex life. If we're not compatible that way, it's not her fault, then I want to find out and move on. Then she and I both can go and find partners who actually want us.

 

I spent 15 years in a room mate marriage and it turned me into a mental wreck. I have a few years left before I get old and sick, I want to spend those with someone who appreciates me.

 

I agree, it's not unreasonable. My first marriage was largely sexless. This one is not. I went from sex perhaps 10x a year at most, to over 500x a year - and that has lasted nearly 2 decades. I met my second wife at age 45.

[DKT3]

I think that there was some debate here on whether your wife has been boxed into a corner somehow forced to accept this new you and blah blah blah. It seemed like several folks nit picked different pieces of what you've said.

 

Ultimately though you sound infinitely happier with yourself and now confident that you will be happy in the future with yourself with or without her. I think the moral of the story is to get to that place more than anything else. Someone else could literally get there by doing the opposite, I.e. stop trying to self improve or try in their marriage and play video games all the time.

 

And knowing first hand how it feels to live in a way where your wife's happiness is your responsibility but no matter what you fail... yeah. There is no success to he had there.

 

That old addage 'happy wife happy life' is a giant lie. I only wish that I had learned that much earlier in my marriage.

Women don't sleep with men they don't respect husband or not.

 

It's easy to lose respect when his focus is making her happy, bending to her will.

 

I do agree with the ladies that say this won't fix all sexless marriages in a way that makes sex more frequent, but you would still be happier doing things for yourself, to focus on what makes you happy.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Women don't sleep with men they don't respect husband or not.

 

It's easy to lose respect when his focus is making her happy, bending to her will.

 

I do agree with the ladies that say this won't fix all sexless marriages in a way that makes sex more frequent, but you would still be happier doing things for yourself, to focus on what makes you happy.

 

Are you serious? No man is more deserving of respect, real respect, than the one that COULD throw his weight around and act like a jerk and a selfish moron, but instead has the self-control to deal with life as a grownup, and who treats his woman with kindness and respect.

 

When my husband is selfish I dry up like a twig and can't imagine him inside me. When he is gentle and thoughtful and mature and considers me, not just his q-tip, he seems like a man to me, not an elementary school child, a real man, and then I want to scr3w him.

 

This never varies. Ever.

 

I don't doubt the OP's description but I wonder, if getting slapped, gross blowing on her boobs, humiliation in general make his wife think of a real man...was she abused, neglected? Abandoned as a child? I think of a man as not acting like a selfish middle schooler. Motor boating, this isn't just a joke? Somebody really does this? And thinks of it as manly?

 

Warning, guys, before trying this, you may just as easily wind up with a kick in the crotch. Proceed with caution. Just sayin'.

Edited March 30, 2017 by CaliforniaGirl

[Martian]

I don't doubt the OP's description but I wonder, if getting slapped, gross blowing on her boobs, humiliation in general make his wife think of a real man...was she abused, neglected?

 

"Humiliation"? I think you picture something very different from what's happening in my reality.

 

You know what, it's not important. Just picture something young lovers would do. Something playful and sexual that makes the woman giggle / blush. (Or come really hard.)

 

The point I was trying to make in my comment was that this sort stuff can come back. Usually it's there initially then goes away. It happens when people are dating, then marriage and kids happen and she's "just not sexual any more" and "other couples our age don't have sex either". It's considered "normal". Hubby gets the wheel of excuses or starfish duty sex (when the stars align).

 

Again: for me, it was mind blowing to experience that this sort of sexuality can return into the relationship. The person who would shame me and treat me like a pervert for expressing anything sexual now comes up to me, touches my arms, sits in my lap and gives me a long sensual kiss.

 

Usually this kind of sexual revival requires a change of partners.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Martian

[Martian]

again, I will ask you if you have actually asked her if she is happy with the new you.

 

It's kind of ironic, that's exactly the kind of question my old me would have asked her.

 

That me was making her happiness his responsibility. And tried to implement whatever she said she needed to keep her happy. The outcome was a sexless marriage and a mental breakdown.

 

Old me didn't understand the difference between stated preferences vs revealed preferences.

 

I got my mental health and my sex life back when I stopped taking what my wife says at face value and in many cases doing the opposite of what she told me.

 

I now have a picture of the man (husband and father) who I am trying to be. It's not based on my wife says she wants, but she seems to like it enough so far.

 

 

 

I know it sounds like I am sticking up for the your wife, but I actually thinking more of you. There are many women out there who would love you and want to be with you, and you wouldn't have to have divorce in the back of your mind.

 

You also indicate that she hasn't exactly been the most faithful person in the world, and I don't like to think of people having to go through that more than once. Do you feel like she has worked through that facet of her personality and found better ways to behave?

 

It won't sound very uplifting at first, but I see both divorce and cheating very differently from how I used to.

 

The stoics believed that a big part of unhappiness comes from us worrying about things we cannot change (e.g. the past or who is the next president).

 

I can't control my wife. I can only control my own reactions to her. If she wants to cheat, she has plenty of time and opportunities to do that. I also can't stop her if she wants to divorce me. (Part of the reason she called me a psychopath, because when she brought up divorce I was completely unfazed.)

 

The part that I control is what kind of person I am. And I'm working hard to continue to improve myself.

 

I'll be honest, I'm not yet stoic enough that a breakup or cheating wouldn't effect me. It would probably be a huge punch in the gut. But I also know that my shirtless pics would be on every dating site the next day.

 

This might sound very grim, but it's actually liberating. It's kind of very cool working for a company not because nobody else in town would give you a job, but because although you could easily find another employer, you prefer to be with your current one.

 

I hope that makes sense.

 

( btw, I do apologize if it sounds like I am picking away at you. I don't want to do that, as you sound like a guy who has been through a huge amount of crap already)

 

No worries, I'm a big boy and can take it.

[DKT3]

Are you serious? No man is more deserving of respect, real respect, than the one that COULD throw his weight around and act like a jerk and a selfish moron, but instead has the self-control to deal with life as a grownup, and who treats his woman with kindness and respect.

 

When my husband is selfish I dry up like a twig and can't imagine him inside me. When he is gentle and thoughtful and mature and considers me, not just his q-tip, he seems like a man to me, not an elementary school child, a real man, and then I want to scr3w him.

 

This never varies. Ever.

 

I don't doubt the OP's description but I wonder, if getting slapped, gross blowing on her boobs, humiliation in general make his wife think of a real man...was she abused, neglected? Abandoned as a child? I think of a man as not acting like a selfish middle schooler. Motor boating, this isn't just a joke? Somebody really does this? And thinks of it as manly?

 

Warning, guys, before trying this, you may just as easily wind up with a kick in the crotch. Proceed with caution. Just sayin'.

 

Not being a step stool doesn't mean you're being a jerk.

 

We have a active poster cheating on her boyfriend because he is too nice, her words. Here you have a woman who had no sexual interest when OP was focused on her happiness. Once he got more interested in doing things that made him happy she became sexually attracted again. I've seen it time and time again. As men there is a real danger in becoming too available to your women's needs. The risk is she grows to expect it, then she takes it for granted, lose respect and the relationship is lost.

 

Taking time to focus more on your own desires and need creates a balance in a relationship. You can't put everything in your partner leaving them your sole source of happiness and validation. It creates an imbalance. That isn't being a selfish jerk.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Not being a step stool doesn't mean you're being a jerk.

 

We have a active poster cheating on her boyfriend because he is too nice, her words. Here you have a woman who had no sexual interest when OP was focused on her happiness. Once he got more interested in doing things that made him happy she became sexually attracted again. I've seen it time and time again. As men there is a real danger in becoming too available to your women's needs. The risk is she grows to expect it, then she takes it for granted, lose respect and the relationship is lost.

 

Taking time to focus more on your own desires and need creates a balance in a relationship. You can't put everything in your partner leaving them your sole source of happiness and validation. It creates an imbalance. That isn't being a selfish jerk.

 

Hey, I can only give my input on what does and doesn't seem like "a man" to me and what does and doesn't turn me on sexually. But I am afeter all a woman and a wife. For people reading this thread, my experienfe is relevant and is in no way unusual, bizarre or against psychology.

 

This woman you describe, and the OP's wife, apparently had specific experiences that "a man" doesn't pay attention to a woman's needs and imperiously decides he knows what she really wants even though she is too stupid to know it herself, and slaps hs woman and raspberries on her body parts like a fifth grader's "watch this, it is so funny" fantasy. I apparently was spared such a horrific view of both men AND myself.

 

We both know there will be men on this board who can't get laid and will be looking to such miracle stories as their Holy Grail. I am the balance for the other side, for non-damaged, self secure women: men, go ahead and try this program at your own risk, and report back to us. But go into it knowing that your wife may not be insecure enough and have a low enough opinion of herself and of men for such a method to turn her into your own personal sex slave just begging to be slapped. You're rolling the dice, so be prepared for any eventuality. Good luck.

[DKT3]

Hey, I can only give my input on what does and doesn't seem like "a man" to me and what does and doesn't turn me on sexually. But I am afeter all a woman and a wife. For people reading this thread, my experienfe is relevant and is in no way unusual, bizarre or against psychology.

 

This woman you describe, and the OP's wife, apparently had specific experiences that "a man" doesn't pay attention to a woman's needs and imperiously decides he knows what she really wants even though she is too stupid to know it herself, and slaps hs woman and raspberries on her body parts like a fifth grader's "watch this, it is so funny" fantasy. I apparently was spared such a horrific view of both men AND myself.

 

We both know there will be men on this board who can't get laid and will be looking to such miracle stories as their Holy Grail. I am the balance for the other side, for non-damaged, self secure women: men, go ahead and try this program at your own risk, and report back to us. But go into it knowing that your wife may not be insecure enough and have a low enough opinion of herself and of men for such a method to turn her into your own personal sex slave just begging to be slapped. You're rolling the dice, so be prepared for any eventuality. Good luck.

You seem fixated on that one part. It's not about how smacking her on the butt enticed her sexually. It's about him pulling back on placing all his eggs in her basket. He stepped back, and decided his way forward would be making himself happy by doing what makes him happy. He hit the gym to focus on himself, got new clothes, new haircut, got busy doing things he wanted to do. As a result his wife is accepting of the sexual contact that you deem as immature.

 

Not sure how or why you took this as some caveman project were he smacked her on the ass and said you my woman, and it solved a sexless marriage. It's a result not the solution.

[Jooles]

It sounds like your wife was wanting/needing an Alpha male, and you turned yourself into one.

 

One thing that bothers me is, despite being in good physical shape, making efforts with your physical appearance, having good sex, etc, you don't sound all that happy. If I am misreading you, and you are happy and satisfied then congrats to you for being so proactive and changing your life. I can't help but feel it must be a bit lonely. Having good sex is great, but are you and your wife connecting on an emotional level?

[Martian]

One thing that bothers me is, despite being in good physical shape, making efforts with your physical appearance, having good sex, etc, you don't sound all that happy. If I am misreading you, and you are happy and satisfied then congrats to you for being so proactive and changing your life. I can't help but feel it must be a bit lonely. Having good sex is great, but are you and your wife connecting on an emotional level?

 

We talk about a great many things with the wife, my emotions are not one of them.

 

I found male friends to bond with. This was very helpful and I wish I did this earlier.

 

Possibly even more helpful was reading and seriously trying to practice stoic teachings. A good intro book I can recommend is A Guide to the Good Life.

[AMarriedMan]

We talk about a great many things with the wife, my emotions are not one of them.

 

I found male friends to bond with. This was very helpful and I wish I did this earlier.

 

 

One of the contradictions of male-female intimate relationships is that while it is natural for women to want to have an emotional connection with their men to be able to trust them, women typically do not want exposure to the full scope and intensity of their men's emotions. More or less, some of those emotions they would find gross and others a direct turn-off such as many uncertainties or weaknesses that are naturally part of being human. Anything human is variable, however. Some women go for sensitive guys. But even they have limits.

 

In a sexual relationship, women nearly universally desire to look up to their man. Thus, there is and cannot be equality in a relationship. Equality, in turn is a prerequisite for a full emotional connection. In sexual relationships with men, women essentially sell access to their bodies in return for protection and resources.

Edited April 3, 2017 by AMarriedMan

[Martian]

women typically do not want exposure to the full scope and intensity of their men's emotions

 

I found this to be true. (

as the song says.)

 

She says she wants me to talk about my feelings, but when I did, I turned her off.

 

I think what she actually wants to hear about is certain feelings in certain amounts. Anything beyond that and I risk coming off as emotionally needy and therefore unattractive. Not the strong figure that she can rely on for her own emotional needs.

 

Again, this is the dichotomy between stated and revealed preferences.

[OpenBook]

Why does his wife stay with him? He himself mentioned that it was important to stay together for the kids ( his wife says). What sort of relationship lessons is their marriage teaching them? To threaten divorce to get what you want?

 

You need to re-read the OP. The W was the one who started the divorce-threatening, not him:

 

She threatened to take the kids and leave. She disappeared for 3 days with them without saying anything. I realized that it was just her attempt at drama so I simply ignored it.

 

He just turned her own tactics back around on her. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Like other posters have mentioned, I admire his efforts to save his M first, instead of stepping outside the M to get his needs met like so many other men do.

[AMarriedMan]

I found this to be true. (

as the song says.)

 

She says she wants me to talk about my feelings, but when I did, I turned her off.

 

I think what she actually wants to hear about is certain feelings in certain amounts. Anything beyond that and I risk coming off as emotionally needy and therefore unattractive.

 

If she wants you to be sensitive on an occasion, you can think about how your dog you took hunting for 15 years recently died or something like that, and a shed a single tear as evidence of your emotional capacity.

 

 

Not the strong figure that she can rely on for her own emotional needs.

 

 

Yes. Speaking of women's emotional needs, having to listen to women go on and on about their negative feelings with no apparent intention to actually do something about whatever problem causes those feelings is yet another cost of associating with them. It's a service you provide with your woman. How much would you need to be paid per hour to listen to a woman complain if the possibility of sex, cooking or doing the laundry were completely out of the picture? How many hours per year do you have to spend being your woman's therapist? Repeat the same analysis for every other unpleasant aspect of your relationship. Count the total and add it to the money you spend directly on your wife. That is the total cost of your relationship to you expressed in monetary terms. Repeat the process with respect to the benefits. How much is the sex, cooking and childcare your wife does for you/on your behalf worth? What do you think the balance might be?

Edited April 3, 2017 by AMarriedMan

[Martian]

You need to re-read the OP. The W was the one who started the divorce-threatening, not him:

 

Just to clarify.

 

The timeline was roughly like this:

 

1. 15 years of dysfunctional marriage. I set a deadline for divorce, don't tell her about it, but I start implementing changes.
   
2. Initially, she dislikes the changes and tries to stop me. I ignore her. She keeps trying and escalates the drama levels. I keep ignoring.
   
3. She is distressed about this, nothing from her arsenal works on me any more, even when dialed to 11. She asks for divorce, I tell her to sleep on it.
   
4. Divorce is not mentioned again.
   

[elaine567]

He just turned her own tactics back around on her. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

OK but do two wrongs ever make a right?

I guess in a little while SHE will be the one on the verge of a nervous breakdown...

 

This is not a recipe for any male in a sexless marriage, this is only successful here as the HS sweetheart wife who has never worked in her life and who is a SAHM and totally dependent on him for the existence of herself and her kids, saw no other option but to comply.

 

The axis of power and control has now moved from the wife to the husband, and for a woman who naturally slipped into the role of "leader" previously, I doubt this is a sustainable state of affairs long term.

[central]

OK but do two wrongs ever make a right?

I guess in a little while SHE will be the one on the verge of a nervous breakdown...

 

This is not a recipe for any male in a sexless marriage, this is only successful here as the HS sweetheart wife who has never worked in her life and who is a SAHM and totally dependent on him for the existence of herself and her kids, saw no other option but to comply.

 

The axis of power and control has now moved from the wife to the husband, and for a woman who naturally slipped into the role of "leader" previously, I doubt this is a sustainable state of affairs long term.

 

I think your opinion is totally off base, but heck, that's just my opinion. I get the impression that you think that because a man took action to save his marriage, he's automatically in the wrong because he is a man and didn't pander to his wife. His approach may not have worked with you, but it is valid and viable for some situations. The fact that it worked so well is testimony to his choosing the correct method for his situation. In his situation, I'd probably just have divorced this immature girl and started over.

[elaine567]

She says she wants me to talk about my feelings, but when I did, I turned her off.

 

I think what she actually wants to hear about is certain feelings in certain amounts. Anything beyond that and I risk coming off as emotionally needy and therefore unattractive. Not the strong figure that she can rely on for her own emotional needs.

 

 

I think women who love their husband or are naturally empathetic want to hear about his feelings and try to help when he needs some support.

I think women who do not love their husband or who hold a lot of resentment, or who feel an emotional disconnect with their husband, or are not naturally empathetic, do not want to be bothered with HIS emotional problems.