How I fixed my sexless marriage (continuing my post from 2009)

[elaine567]

I think your opinion is totally off base, but heck, that's just my opinion. I get the impression that you think that because a man took action to save his marriage, he's automatically in the wrong because he is a man and didn't pander to his wife. His approach may not have worked with you, but it is valid and viable for some situations. The fact that it worked so well is testimony to his choosing the correct method for his situation. In his situation, I'd probably just have divorced this immature girl and started over.

 

This is not a gender issue, I think this strategy would also be successful if the man was totally dependent on his wife and she took a similar stance to the one the OP took and the man felt he had no other option but to comply in order that his kids had a nice life.

 

This is purely about power and control and survival, not necessarily about love and desire.

The OP wanted to be wanted by his wife, but I am not sure he has really achieved that.

[Martian]

This is not a recipe for any male in a sexless marriage, this is only successful here as the HS sweetheart wife who has never worked in her life and who is a SAHM and totally dependent on him for the existence of herself and her kids, saw no other option but to comply.

 

This is purely about power and control and survival,

 

I want to clarify the bolded part. We have no debts. Getting half of the assets in a divorce, plus more than 6 figures a year in child support and alimony would mean that she's under no existential threat.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Martian

[BluEyeL]

I'm glad you're happy and achieved your objectives. However this doesn't strike me as a loving relationship. It just seems that the dysfunction moved from on side to the other.

[BluesPower]

To everyone that thinks this is wrong...

 

We all have different opinions on these types of things, and I totally get it.

 

I have done the same thing in my life only my marriage was done anyway. Why is a man that makes himself attractive and keeps himself assertive in a positive way, somehow doing something wrong.

 

I am single now, I do not get into serious relationships and will not get married. I am a kind of popular musician in my area, but basically just an average guy.

 

I actually have too many women that either have or want to sleep with me. I don't cheat, I don't chase, and some of them choose to fall in love, even when I have explained where I am at in life. Occasionally some get hurt. I really try to avoid the ones that might get hurt but I do miss one or two.

 

I am not forcing these women to chase me, or sleep with me. They made the choice that they wanted to be with me.

 

Just like OP's wife decided that if she wanted to keep him she had to get herself in gear. If she really did not like OP or what he was doing, she could have chosen to divorce and many do.

 

I am just confused by those that feel as if he has done something dishonest?

[DKT3]

This is not a gender issue, I think this strategy would also be successful if the man was totally dependent on his wife and she took a similar stance to the one the OP took and the man felt he had no other option but to comply in order that his kids had a nice life.

 

This is purely about power and control and survival, not necessarily about love and desire.

The OP wanted to be wanted by his wife, but I am not sure he has really achieved that.

 

Of course it's about power and control, OP decided to regain his power and took control of his life. Gone was the dependent whinnying (about sex). In its place was a man totally self-sufficient and independent. He took control of his happiness in turn reduced her power to control him.

 

It's not uncommon, I myself had this, not to this level. Once I decide divorce was my only option I changed my clothes style, focused on things I enjoyed doing for me and with my kids. Low and behold I saw a major shift in her attitude, too late but it was there.

 

Just like OP, my wife used every trick in her book to put me back in my place, but I was gone. Paid little to no attention to what she was doing.

 

Like me, OP was looking towards divorce. Is.it sustainable? I think so, my wife has maintained her shift in attitude closing in on ten years.

[JuneL]

Just a couple of observations:

 

First, some women are naturally attracted to guys with "alpha" traits. OP's strategy may work better for these women. Having alpha traits doesn't mean the guy is an insensitive jerk; he just doesn't act needy, but in fact may have a kind heart deep down. I recall in one epic thread, the poster said that she got very turned on when her husband was acting aloof and distant upon learning about her short affair.

 

For those women who tend to be attracted to "nice" (nice on the surface) guys, they might have a hard time with such a strategy.

 

Second, I've read somewhere that unlike women, guys often don't need as much to talk about their feelings. When they have emotional issues, they might just go into their own cave, or just go out and play some sports to vent away.

[Southern Sun]

This is interesting to me. What happened in my affair, and the personalities of my H vs xMM bear out this dynamic. I can see why it worked for you.

 

In my marriage sex was an issue, and I was drawn in by a dominant, assertive type. The type of relationship I had with xMM was very different than what I have with my H. Even if I try to remove the "affair" components, just comparing the two personality types and my responses to them is so very different. It almost made me feel like a different person. At least, they bring out very different sides of me.

 

I say as long as this new you is authentic, great. You can't fake that kind of stuff. But if it's real and it's tempered with kindness and compassion (which it sounds like it is), I say keep it up.

[BluEyeL]

I don't know if it's wrong or not it's just not loving . The way OP talks about his wife is not loving . It's just ...unfortunate and sad.

[OpenBook]

OK but do two wrongs ever make a right?

I guess in a little while SHE will be the one on the verge of a nervous breakdown...

 

This is not a recipe for any male in a sexless marriage, this is only successful here as the HS sweetheart wife who has never worked in her life and who is a SAHM and totally dependent on him for the existence of herself and her kids, saw no other option but to comply.

 

If that were true, then why did she ask him for a divorce? Mock him, shame him, take the kids away from him without a word? That sure doesn't sound like an unconfident desperate woman to me. It takes a lot of confidence to try such brazenly manipulative tactics on one's spouse.

 

No, this is a woman who knows exactly what she's doing. And I sincerely doubt she's all meek and compliant with him now.

 

OP - is your W meek and compliant with you now, jumping whenever you say "jump"? Is she freely expressing her own needs to you? Does she still raise objections when she disagrees with you on something - or is it "yes honey, whatever you want"?

 

I'm betting no on that last one, because a woman like that wouldn't keep your interest for long. You want HER - the woman you married. And that doesn't sound like your W. Am I wrong?

 

The axis of power and control has now moved from the wife to the husband, and for a woman who naturally slipped into the role of "leader" previously, I doubt this is a sustainable state of affairs long term.

 

No, I see it more as "righting the ship." I have no doubt his W is perfectly capable of asserting herself in the M should she choose to do so. The difference now is, he's asserting himself as well. The result is a lot more "zing" in their M, and that's wonderful to see. My hope for this M is that the power balance is equitable, although that can fluctuate depending on the life event being dealt with, or the spouse's particular area of expertise (and I don't see anything wrong with that fluctuation, as long as it can go both ways).

[Bufo]

In my experience there is no shortage of women who believe that it is there duty to tell any man in her life how to dress, how to act, why it is his obligation to earn more money, do more household chores, spend more time with her family,

and remind him that sex with her is rare and valuable.

 

OP finally had it and simply made unilateral changes in his life focused on his happiness.

 

He realized that her happiness was not his sole obligation. And for that he is chastised by some posters and has his intentions questioned by others.

 

Two questions:

 

1. Is he happier and therefore a better father and husband?

 

2. Is she happier and if not why not leave?

 

You done good. I'm nominating you for the Spaceghost Award. (Readers of another forum will know what this means).

[wmacbride]

You seem fixated on that one part. It's not about how smacking her on the butt enticed her sexually. It's about him pulling back on placing all his eggs in her basket. He stepped back, and decided his way forward would be making himself happy by doing what makes him happy. He hit the gym to focus on himself, got new clothes, new haircut, got busy doing things he wanted to do. As a result his wife is accepting of the sexual contact that you deem as immature.

 

Not sure how or why you took this as some caveman project were he smacked her on the ass and said you my woman, and it solved a sexless marriage. It's a result not the solution.

 

I'm just stuck on phrases such as this:

 

"I got my mental health and my sex life back when I stopped taking what my wife says at face value and in many cases doing the opposite of what she told me."

 

"Old me didn't understand the difference between stated preferences vs revealed preferences. ;)"

 

 

So your wife says she likes/ doesn't like certain sexual acts, but you know better what she likes and doesn't like? Please tell me I misunderstood what you meant.

[wmacbride]

One of the contradictions of male-female intimate relationships is that while it is natural for women to want to have an emotional connection with their men to be able to trust them, women typically do not want exposure to the full scope and intensity of their men's emotions. More or less, some of those emotions they would find gross and others a direct turn-off such as many uncertainties or weaknesses that are naturally part of being human. Anything human is variable, however. Some women go for sensitive guys. But even they have limits.

 

In a sexual relationship, women nearly universally desire to look up to their man. Thus, there is and cannot be equality in a relationship. Equality, in turn is a prerequisite for a full emotional connection. In sexual relationships with men, women essentially sell access to their bodies in return for protection and resources.

 

Why are there so many men who are convinced they know how women think and feel?

[wmacbride]

OK but do two wrongs ever make a right?

I guess in a little while SHE will be the one on the verge of a nervous breakdown...

 

This is not a recipe for any male in a sexless marriage, this is only successful here as the HS sweetheart wife who has never worked in her life and who is a SAHM and totally dependent on him for the existence of herself and her kids, saw no other option but to comply.

 

The axis of power and control has now moved from the wife to the husband, and for a woman who naturally slipped into the role of "leader" previously, I doubt this is a sustainable state of affairs long term.

 

Some men are fine if it's a man treating a woman like this, and will cheer him on no matter what. ( I'm not referring to the op)

[wmacbride]

This is not a gender issue, I think this strategy would also be successful if the man was totally dependent on his wife and she took a similar stance to the one the OP took and the man felt he had no other option but to comply in order that his kids had a nice life.

 

This is purely about power and control and survival, not necessarily about love and desire.

The OP wanted to be wanted by his wife, but I am not sure he has really achieved that.

 

This is what I was trying to get at, but you said it much better.

[Martian]

I'm just stuck on phrases such as this:

 

"I got my mental health and my sex life back when I stopped taking what my wife says at face value and in many cases doing the opposite of what she told me."

 

"Old me didn't understand the difference between stated preferences vs revealed preferences. ;)"

 

 

So your wife says she likes/ doesn't like certain sexual acts, but you know better what she likes and doesn't like? Please tell me I misunderstood what you meant.

 

I tried to explain it in the linked comment.

 

Let me try another way.

 

When it comes to certain topics, I stopped listening to what she says and instead pay attention to what she does.

 

When she has a "headache" it doesn't literally mean headache.

 

She says that she doesn't like muscle (stated preference), yet she touches them all the time (revealed preference).

 

She says that what she needs is romantic dates and me talking about my feelings (stated preference) to feel close and be sexual, yet the sex is best when I do almost none of that (revealed preference).

 

When I gave her an opportunity to list things she'd consider trying in bed, it came back practically empty. (stated preference) When I went ahead and simply tried them, she ended up enjoying them. (revealed preference)

 

Etc etc.

 

There are situations where it's good to let the other person to take the lead. On the dance floor, in the bedroom or when organizing a trip. She can just enjoy the ride. It can be a very good feeling.

[DKT3]

I'm just stuck on phrases such as this:

 

"I got my mental health and my sex life back when I stopped taking what my wife says at face value and in many cases doing the opposite of what she told me."

 

"Old me didn't understand the difference between stated preferences vs revealed preferences. ;)"

 

 

So your wife says she likes/ doesn't like certain sexual acts, but you know better what she likes and doesn't like? Please tell me I misunderstood what you meant.

 

Again, it's not about that. It's about detaching and becoming​ independent. In doing so his wife became sexually attracted to him again.

 

This is all preceded by "ready to divorce".

 

Will it fix sexless marriage? Absolutely not, but it will change the situation that is unsustainable. In this case more sex, in another case maybe divorced and more sex with someone else. Either way, he took control because he was no longer willing to accept less.

[Martian]

OP - is your W meek and compliant with you now, jumping whenever you say "jump"? Is she freely expressing her own needs to you? Does she still raise objections when she disagrees with you on something - or is it "yes honey, whatever you want"?

 

Haha, no. We don't have Saudi Arabia at home. Also she's not some sort of sex slave sub as some commenters seem to be implying. She doesn't wait for me on her knees with a dog collar on and leash in her mouth when I get home.

 

She still says no sometimes when I initiate, she still says no to things in bed (which is fine, I don't have a special kink that I absolutely need). She still sometime criticizes some of the things I do or don't do in general, but it's much less frequent and I became very good at turning those into jokes.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Martian

[DKT3]

Why are there so many men who are convinced they know how women think and feel?

 

Women don't?

 

Everyone has a list of priorities, once read a study that stated less than 5% of women had sex in thier top 3 while over 80% of men had it in thier top 2. Mismatch. Yet time and time again women tend to think sex shouldn't hold such high importance for men. It's how we connect more time than not. Now we are hamsters chasing our azz on that damn wheel. She don't meet my needs why worry about hers. If we had a better emotional connection I would be more willing to have sex. OP simply jumped off the wheel, his wife decided to join him. That's all

[zouz71]

Dear Martian ,

 

So happy to know your success .

 

Keep it up .

 

my advise to you is to be careful in one thing :

 

Don't change strategy and don't make her see you as a granted right ; if you do she might hit again, been on this boat before ... after 3 month the whole thing collapsed again .

 

I don't want to be pessimistic , good luck for you ; but I am telling you this because I made the big mistake of granting her again the power to look at me again as granted , which meant to her , no matter what she does , I will not leave ...

[Els]

Of course it's about power and control, OP decided to regain his power and took control of his life. Gone was the dependent whinnying (about sex). In its place was a man totally self-sufficient and independent.

 

I don't think anyone here is taking issue with the OP becoming more independent and self-sufficient. Working out is always a positive. So is "cooking and taking care of his own ****". Frankly I think it's concerning that an adult man WASN'T doing any cooking or taking care of his own **** to start with... but I digress.

 

It's the other parts of his tale, the manipulation and power games and constant adversarial tone, that is grating on people. People who love each other don't do that. Sure he has all the sex he wants now - but that isn't the same thing as love. He could've bought that for $2k/month from a prostitute.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Elswyth

[Els]

FTR, I have no issues with what the OP and his wife are doing in the bedroom per se. Ass slapping, throwing around, etc is all perfectly fine - when consent is freely given on both sides. When BOTH parties have expressed a desire for it and genuinely like it. Unfortunately, in this scenario, I can't be sure that that is the case. I enjoy much of that to an extent myself, and the OP's description of what they do just strikes me as very sad and head-shaking. Not erotic at all.

[AMarriedMan]

I don't think anyone here is taking issue with the OP becoming more independent and self-sufficient. Working out is always a positive. So is "cooking and taking care of his own ****". Frankly I think it's concerning that an adult man WASN'T doing any cooking or taking care of his own **** to start with... but I digress.

 

His wife is and always was a SAHM. It is only fair that the stay-at-home partner does all or a large majority of the housework.

 

It's the other parts of his tale, the manipulation and power games and constant adversarial tone, that is grating on people.

 

The manipulation and power games were purely the province of OP's wife before he turned the tables. Before that, OP was depressed to the point of almost not being fit to work and be the sole breadwinner of his family.

 

People who love each other don't do that.

 

I agree. OP's wife used to treat him like ****. That is not very loving. Now OP is giving his wife what she needs and she seems very happy with that.

 

It is now painfully obvious that OP's wife's love for him and continuation thereof is triggered and conditional upon certain specific behavioral patterns OP has had to acquire through sheer willpower. In order for that love to last he cannot slip back to his old ways. OP could probably switch his wife's love for him on and off at will now that he knows precisely what turns her on and what turns her off. What people really find grating is that this MECHANISM has been laid bare. But this is how love between sexual partners works. It is guided by instincts shaped by the cold, merciless pressures of natural selection. Our deepest desire, however, is to be seen and loved for who we really are when all pretense is dropped. No lover will ever be able to come even close to giving us that. In real life, parental love is the closest thing and even that is often quite imperfect.

 

Sure he has all the sex he wants now - but that isn't the same thing as love. He could've bought that for $2k/month from a prostitute.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that you can buy a genuinely lustful response from a prostitute? And what do you think you know about OP's wife's ability to separate love from lust?

[wmacbride]

His wife is and always was a SAHM. It is only fair that the stay-at-home partner does all or a large majority of the housework.

 

 

 

The manipulation and power games were purely the province of OP's wife before he turned the tables. Before that, OP was depressed to the point of almost not being fit to work and be the sole breadwinner of his family.

 

 

 

I agree. OP's wife used to treat him like ****. That is not very loving. Now OP is giving his wife what she needs and she seems very happy with that.

 

It is now painfully obvious that OP's wife's love for him and continuation thereof is triggered and conditional upon certain specific behavioral patterns OP has had to acquire through sheer willpower. In order for that love to last he cannot slip back to his old ways. OP could probably switch his wife's love for him on and off at will now that he knows precisely what turns her on and what turns her off. What people really find grating is that this MECHANISM has been laid bare. But this is how love between sexual partners works. It is guided by instincts shaped by the cold, merciless pressures of natural selection. Our deepest desire, however, is to be seen and loved for who we really are when all pretense is dropped. No lover will ever be able to come even close to giving us that. In real life, parental love is the closest thing and even that is often quite imperfect.

 

 

 

Are you seriously suggesting that you can buy a genuinely lustful response from a prostitute? And what do you think you know about OP's wife's ability to separate love from lust?

 

 

That's not what the op is doing. He loves her when she acts the way he wants her to. It's a huge amount of effort, and if he's measuring her happiness and how she feels for him by the amount of sex, he may be in for a huge shock.

 

I know the op is getting lots of back slaps and applause form the men, but I really wonder if his wife really cares for him or she is just biding her time until she feels like it's a good time to leave, which in all honesty, might be what's best for all of them. We are hearing only his side, which can't be helped, due to the nature of an internet forum. If we could hear her side and why she acted the way she did, it might provide some helpful insight. A marriage takes two people, and any problems need to be worked on by both.

 

I could see the situation being successful if she admitted she had treated him baldy and had some understanding of why. Then, they could both discuss how to address those issues. Maybe he has done this?

 

I will never understand why some men think that just because a woman has sex with him, she is loves him and is enjoying it. Women can have sex and orgasm even if they hate the person they are with. They can also fake certain responses. I'm not saying that's what the op's wife is doing, but I am leery of this sudden change in her. Personality is not a light switch. You can't simply turn certain behaviors off and on. If whatever it was that made her so unpleasant before is still there and has not been addressed, it may come back, and the op will be hurt all over again. I don't want to see that happen to him, as he sounds like he is a nice guy who is not well matched to the woman he married. Not his fault or hers, just the reality.

[Els]

His wife is and always was a SAHM. It is only fair that the stay-at-home partner does all or a large majority of the housework.

 

 

 

The manipulation and power games were purely the province of OP's wife before he turned the tables. Before that, OP was depressed to the point of almost not being fit to work and be the sole breadwinner of his family.

 

 

 

I agree. OP's wife used to treat him like ****. That is not very loving. Now OP is giving his wife what she needs and she seems very happy with that.

 

It is now painfully obvious that OP's wife's love for him and continuation thereof is triggered and conditional upon certain specific behavioral patterns OP has had to acquire through sheer willpower. In order for that love to last he cannot slip back to his old ways.

 

Your entire post is basically "he gave her tit for tat" or "she did it to him first". Which part of that do you think goes well with a loving relationship?

 

OP could probably switch his wife's love for him on and off at will now that he knows precisely what turns her on and what turns her off. What people really find grating is that this MECHANISM has been laid bare. But this is how love between sexual partners works. It is guided by instincts shaped by the cold, merciless pressures of natural selection. Our deepest desire, however, is to be seen and loved for who we really are when all pretense is dropped. No lover will ever be able to come even close to giving us that. In real life, parental love is the closest thing and even that is often quite imperfect.

Nobody has said that the OP should love her unconditionally. That is quite a stretch to infer from our posts, no?

 

What would your response be if the roles were reversed and a woman found out that the best "mechanism" she could find to get her partner to be emotionally attentive was to purposefully withdraw sex and only "reward" him with sex when he provided the emotional attention that she desired?

 

Are you seriously suggesting that you can buy a genuinely lustful response from a prostitute? And what do you think you know about OP's wife's ability to separate love from lust?

How do you know the OP's wife is genuinely lusting for him? Prostitutes can put on a darned good show. Good enough to fool quite a few male posters in these forums, btw. So can cornered/coerced wives. Edited April 25, 2017 by Elswyth

[AMarriedMan]

That's not what the op is doing. He loves her when she acts the way he wants her to.

 

I think OP has always loved his wife, even when she treated him like crap. Why else do you think he would have engaged in self-improvement on such a massive scale?

 

It's a huge amount of effort,

 

Sure it is. The fact that OP took all that trouble is ample proof of his love for his wife.

 

and if he's measuring her happiness and how she feels for him by the amount of sex, he may be in for a huge shock.

 

There's also the little thing of not treating OP like crap, being in a ****ty mood all the time and talking about wanting a divorce.

 

I know the op is getting lots of back slaps and applause form the men, but I really wonder if his wife really cares for him or she is just biding her time until she feels like it's a good time to leave, which in all honesty, might be what's best for all of them.

 

No doubt, it might be best for you and a few other readers whose sensibilities were hurt by OP's non-PC methods of turning his marriage around. You're doing logical somersaults here. Why would OP's wife who had stopped having sex with OP and had been displaying resentment toward OP on a regular basis be more likely to want to leave OP now that the sex is enjoyable, the atmosphere at home calm, the husband much more confident, physically attractive and not nearly crippled by depression? You're making superfluous assumptions that make no sense based on what we know about OP's wife's behavior.

 

We are hearing only his side, which can't be helped, due to the nature of an internet forum. If we could hear her side and why she acted the way she did, it might provide some helpful insight. A marriage takes two people, and any problems need to be worked on by both.

 

OP's wife does not sound like a very self-aware person. Or if she is, then she has to be a weird sadist who's into playing games while risking the well-being of her entire family. What she kept telling OP about her desires and what her responses told about them were two very different things, often in conflict.

 

I could see the situation being successful if she admitted she had treated him baldy and had some understanding of why. Then, they could both discuss how to address those issues. Maybe he has done this?

 

It seems that OP already addressed them as successfully as they could be addressed.

 

I will never understand why some men think that just because a woman has sex with him, she is loves him and is enjoying it. Women can have sex and orgasm even if they hate the person they are with. They can also fake certain responses. I'm not saying that's what the op's wife is doing, but I am leery of this sudden change in her.

 

The change was in HIM and it was very far from sudden.

 

Personality is not a light switch. You can't simply turn certain behaviors off and on. If whatever it was that made her so unpleasant before is still there and has not been addressed, it may come back, and the op will be hurt all over again. I don't want to see that happen to him, as he sounds like he is a nice guy who is not well matched to the woman he married. Not his fault or hers, just the reality.

 

What made OP's wife so unpleasant before was having to be married to a man she felt repulsed by. OP solved the problem by working hard over a period of time to change himself to become a man his wife could be attracted to.

 

OP must have loved his wife and children very much to have been motivated to take on such a huge task. It would have been far less work to just let the wife go and find a new woman. But this way is much better for the kids, too. They did not have to experience their family falling apart.