How I fixed my sexless marriage (continuing my post from 2009)

[AMarriedMan]

Your entire post is basically "he gave her tit for tat" or "she did it to him first". Which part of that do you think goes well with a loving relationship?

 

I have never said or implied that OP has hurt his wife in any way. He has only stood up for himself. His only "aggressive act" has been to stop being a yes man for his wife.

 

Nobody has said that the OP should love her unconditionally. That is quite a stretch to infer from our posts, no?

 

Then tell me what is not genuine about OP's wife's love for him? The fact that the process through which it came about is unusually transparent? We all love our partners because when we met them they fit an attractiveness template we carry in our heads and because we have developed an attachment to them.

 

What would your response be if the roles were reversed and a woman found out that the best "mechanism" she could find to get her partner to be emotionally attentive was to purposefully withdraw sex and only "reward" him with sex when he provided the emotional attention that she desired?

 

If that really was the way to avert disaster for herself and her family, I'd say go for it. Certainly, if a future husband of my daughter's acted like a jerk and she found a way to straighten him out and create a happier home environment for my future grandchildren, I couldn't be happier.

 

How do you know the OP's wife is genuinely lusting for him?

 

I can infer that from OP's description of her behavior. Why do you insist on her having to be putting on an act?

 

Prostitutes can put on a darned good show. Good enough to fool quite a few male posters in these forums, btw.

 

I think that is a mean thing to say about OP's wife.

 

So can cornered/coerced wives.

 

How exactly is OP's wife cornered or coerced? She was close to leaving herself on her own volition BEFORE OP enacted the changes.

[AMarriedMan]

That's not what the op is doing. He loves her when she acts the way he wants her to.

 

I think OP has always loved his wife, even when she treated him like crap. Why else do you think he would have engaged in self-improvement on such a massive scale?

 

It's a huge amount of effort,

 

Sure it is. The fact that OP took all that trouble is ample proof of his love for his wife.

 

and if he's measuring her happiness and how she feels for him by the amount of sex, he may be in for a huge shock.

 

There's also the little thing of not treating OP like crap, being in a bad mood all the time and talking about wanting a divorce.

 

I know the op is getting lots of back slaps and applause form the men, but I really wonder if his wife really cares for him or she is just biding her time until she feels like it's a good time to leave, which in all honesty, might be what's best for all of them.

 

No doubt, it might be best for you and a few other readers whose sensibilities were hurt by OP's non-PC methods of turning his marriage around. You're doing logical somersaults here. Why would OP's wife who had stopped having sex with OP and had been displaying resentment toward OP on a regular basis be more likely to want to leave OP now that the sex is enjoyable, the atmosphere at home calm, the husband much more confident, physically attractive and not nearly crippled by depression? You're making superfluous assumptions that make no sense based on what we know about OP's wife's behavior.

 

We are hearing only his side, which can't be helped, due to the nature of an internet forum. If we could hear her side and why she acted the way she did, it might provide some helpful insight. A marriage takes two people, and any problems need to be worked on by both.

 

OP's wife does not sound like a very self-aware person. Or if she is, then she has to be a weird sadist who's into playing games while risking the well-being of her entire family. What she kept telling OP about her desires and what her responses told about them were two very different things, often in conflict.

 

I could see the situation being successful if she admitted she had treated him baldy and had some understanding of why. Then, they could both discuss how to address those issues. Maybe he has done this?

 

It seems that OP already addressed them as successfully as they could be addressed.

 

I will never understand why some men think that just because a woman has sex with him, she is loves him and is enjoying it. Women can have sex and orgasm even if they hate the person they are with. They can also fake certain responses. I'm not saying that's what the op's wife is doing, but I am leery of this sudden change in her.

 

The change was in HIM and it was very far from sudden.

 

Personality is not a light switch. You can't simply turn certain behaviors off and on. If whatever it was that made her so unpleasant before is still there and has not been addressed, it may come back, and the op will be hurt all over again. I don't want to see that happen to him, as he sounds like he is a nice guy who is not well matched to the woman he married. Not his fault or hers, just the reality.

 

What made OP's wife so unpleasant before was having to be married to a man she felt repulsed by. OP solved the problem by working hard over a period of time to change himself to become a man his wife could be attracted to.

 

OP must have loved his wife and children very much to have been motivated to take on such a huge task. It would have been far less work to just let the wife go and find a new woman. But this way is much better for the kids, too. They did not have to experience their family falling apart.

[wmacbride]

I think OP has always loved his wife, even when she treated him like crap. Why else do you think he would have engaged in self-improvement on such a massive scale?

 

 

 

Sure it is. The fact that OP took all that trouble is ample proof of his love for his wife.

 

 

 

There's also the little thing of not treating OP like crap, being in a ****ty mood all the time and talking about wanting a divorce.

 

 

 

No doubt, it might be best for you and a few other readers whose sensibilities were hurt by OP's non-PC methods of turning his marriage around. You're doing logical somersaults here. Why would OP's wife who had stopped having sex with OP and had been displaying resentment toward OP on a regular basis be more likely to want to leave OP now that the sex is enjoyable, the atmosphere at home calm, the husband much more confident, physically attractive and not nearly crippled by depression? You're making superfluous assumptions that make no sense based on what we know about OP's wife's behavior.

 

 

 

OP's wife does not sound like a very self-aware person. Or if she is, then she has to be a weird sadist who's into playing games while risking the well-being of her entire family. What she kept telling OP about her desires and what her responses told about them were two very different things, often in conflict.

 

 

 

It seems that OP already addressed them as successfully as they could be addressed.

 

 

 

The change was in HIM and it was very far from sudden.

 

 

 

What made OP's wife so unpleasant before was having to be married to a man she felt repulsed by. OP solved the problem by working hard over a period of time to change himself to become a man his wife could be attracted to.

 

OP must have loved his wife and children very much to have been motivated to take on such a huge task. It would have been far less work to just let the wife go and find a new woman. But this way is much better for the kids, too. They did not have to experience their family falling apart.

 

A long time ago in this thread, the op indicated his wife didn't want a divorce ( when it came right down to it) because she didn't want to split up her kid's home.

 

It's not about offending my pc sensibilities. It's about my belief that the op deserves to be with a woman who loves him without him having to have had jump through all these hoops, and not someone who is staying for the kids.

[wmacbride]

I have never said or implied that OP has hurt his wife in any way. He has only stood up for himself. His only "aggressive act" has been to stop being a yes man for his wife.

 

 

 

Then tell me what is not genuine about OP's wife's love for him? The fact that the process through which it came about is unusually transparent? We all love our partners because when we met them they fit an attractiveness template we carry in our heads and because we have developed an attachment to them.

 

 

 

If that really was the way to avert disaster for herself and her family, I'd say go for it. Certainly, if a future husband of my daughter's acted like a jerk and she found a way to straighten him out and create a happier home environment for my future grandchildren, I couldn't be happier.

 

 

 

I can infer that from OP's description of her behavior. Why do you insist on her having to be putting on an act?

 

 

 

I think that is a mean thing to say about OP's wife.

 

 

 

How exactly is OP's wife cornered or coerced? She was close to leaving herself on her own volition BEFORE OP enacted the changes.

 

 

The op is seeing what he wants to see, which is understandable, as he loves his wife. I'm not suggesting he doesn't.

 

What I am saying is that he's measuring her happiness in the relationship against the standards that work for him ( sex). If he uses other measuring tools, how happy does he think she is?

 

I'm asking these questions not to dump on the op, but because he strikes me as a man who wants to be genuinely loved. If I based my opinion on what he had said himself, i don't think she loves him all that much, and she is staying for the kids.

 

I think he deserves better than what he's getting.

[wmacbride]

I think OP has always loved his wife, even when she treated him like crap. Why else do you think he would have engaged in self-improvement on such a massive scale?

 

 

 

Sure it is. The fact that OP took all that trouble is ample proof of his love for his wife.

 

 

 

There's also the little thing of not treating OP like crap, being in a bad mood all the time and talking about wanting a divorce.

 

 

 

No doubt, it might be best for you and a few other readers whose sensibilities were hurt by OP's non-PC methods of turning his marriage around. You're doing logical somersaults here. Why would OP's wife who had stopped having sex with OP and had been displaying resentment toward OP on a regular basis be more likely to want to leave OP now that the sex is enjoyable, the atmosphere at home calm, the husband much more confident, physically attractive and not nearly crippled by depression? You're making superfluous assumptions that make no sense based on what we know about OP's wife's behavior.

 

 

 

OP's wife does not sound like a very self-aware person. Or if she is, then she has to be a weird sadist who's into playing games while risking the well-being of her entire family. What she kept telling OP about her desires and what her responses told about them were two very different things, often in conflict.

 

 

 

It seems that OP already addressed them as successfully as they could be addressed.

 

 

 

The change was in HIM and it was very far from sudden.

 

 

 

What made OP's wife so unpleasant before was having to be married to a man she felt repulsed by. OP solved the problem by working hard over a period of time to change himself to become a man his wife could be attracted to.

 

OP must have loved his wife and children very much to have been motivated to take on such a huge task. It would have been far less work to just let the wife go and find a new woman. But this way is much better for the kids, too. They did not have to experience their family falling apart.

 

Sorry but a lot of this is uninformed.

 

Even he says his wife didn't want to split up their home, and the price she will have to pay is to have sex with him, even if she is miserable. She can still have sex, she can even orgasm, but that doe not mean she's interested in sex with him.

 

That's no reflection on him per se, but the idea that she suddenly developed a sexual desire for him, especially when she didn't have one before, is not making a lot of sense.

 

I will say it again. All we are hearing is his side. Of course, this isn't on purpose, as we can't hear from her.

 

I will also tell you this.

 

The op chose to remain married. He could have walked. That means he agreed to be one half of a partnership, and in spite of what some on here think, BOTH spouses deserve to have their feelings aired and respected.

 

What is her side of the story? How did he treat her before this? IS she happy? Why does she stay?

 

I know you think that keeping the fmaily together is the top priority, and I can't disagree with that. The issue becomes is staying together best for the kids? Are they happy? ( and please cut the "she's having sex with him" cr@p as an indication she's happy and desires him. )

 

She could very well be having sex with him and wishing she was anyplace else, but she'll bite the bullet because she wants the family together. Yes, she brought up divorce before, but I don't think she was serious, as if she was, she'd be long gone. I think she was being manipulative and using shock value to both hurt him and get his attention.

 

I still think he needs to sit his wife down and point blank ask her if she is happy. It's not about if HE thinks she happy, it's about if she actually is, and the way to find the answer to that is to ask her.

 

Their marriage was all about her before, and now it has shifted to be about him. Neither version is especiallyonderful, and I sure as hell would tell my daughter or son if they were in this situation that I think they would be better off apart. I'm not saying that because I think either one of them is a terrible person, but because they just don't sound like they are all that compatible. Him changing his looks, getting is shape, etc. won't change that.

 

In effect, what the op did was an extended version of the 180 and that is not a bad thing at all. I just don't think it really worked in his situation. It sounds more like two people who are sticking together for their children, and while that is certainly very noble, it isn't always for the best.

 

It's not about me being a woman, the op not being pc or any other nonsense. It's about being a third party who has been given a glimpse into the situation and thinking that all of them deserves much better. I have known several women who are like the op's wife, and if asked, the H would relate "well, we are having lots of sex so she must be happy"-because he was happy'. The wife was not, but she was staying for the kids, and right down to the last one, all of the children in those marriages were affected deeply by it.

 

I'm not necessarily saying they should divorce. what I am saying is that a marriage will not be happy place if it's all ( or even mostly) about one spouse or the other. The op has experienced this when it was all about her. It's now shifted to be mostly about him and what he wants, and that simply is not sustainable.

 

 

One more time...I'm not saying the op is a bad guy, a jerk, an ass or anything like that. I'm asking if he really believes she made some deep seated change. Was she really a zebra who changed her stripes? in all honesty, if it keep up the way it is, I could see her cheating on him, not because he deserves it, but because I'm not getting the sense she has any sort of emotional investment in the marriage beyond maintaining the status quo for the kids. Is that really what the op wanted, or would he rather be with a woman who loves him for who and what he is, not one who he had to jump through hoops like he did.

 

They can still both be good parents and still a family even if they live apart.

[AMarriedMan]

Sorry but a lot of this is uninformed.

 

I re-read the entire thread. You do not know one bit more about OP's marriage than I do, unless you've been exchanging private messages with him. Have you?

 

Even he says his wife didn't want to split up their home, and the price she will have to pay is to have sex with him, even if she is miserable. She can still have sex, she can even orgasm, but that doe not mean she's interested in sex with him.

 

Why does she initiate sex with him, then?

 

That's no reflection on him per se, but the idea that she suddenly developed a sexual desire for him, especially when she didn't have one before, is not making a lot of sense.

 

It wasn't sudden and it makes sense because there was a fundamental change in his behavior. According to OP, he worked hard to get rid of all neediness and passive aggression from his behavior. Also, he started working out and went from being a slob to a fit, athletic man. Nothing mysterious here. The vast majority of women prefer to have sex with men who a) do not supplicate to them constantly, b) are not passive-aggressive and c) are fit to having sex with men with the opposite qualities. Are the vast majority of women also biting the bullet?

 

She could very well be having sex with him and wishing she was anyplace else, but she'll bite the bullet because she wants the family together.

 

OP wrote her wife initiates sex now.

 

Yes, she brought up divorce before, but I don't think she was serious, as if she was, she'd be long gone. I think she was being manipulative and using shock value to both hurt him and get his attention.

 

I think she was being genuinely unhappy about their marriage and how her husband was going about trying to solve their marital problems. OP wrote his wife had an emotional affair at some point. She might have left had she met the right man at the right time. OP wrote he was suffering from depression and severe insomnia having resulted in difficulty concentrating at work. He would have lost his job at some point and the marriage would probably have collapsed at that point because it was in much difficulty to begin with.

 

I still think he needs to sit his wife down and point blank ask her if she is happy. It's not about if HE thinks she happy, it's about if she actually is, and the way to find the answer to that is to ask her.

 

When OP did just that in the past, the result was abject failure each and every time.

 

Their marriage was all about her before, and now it has shifted to be about him.

 

My impression is that it's still all about her. OP's wife is still the center of gravity around which everything revolves. She is still the same old fat middle-aged stay-at-home mom of two. She now has an exciting and attractive but loyal and trustworthy husband who earns a six-figure salary and is still in love with her after everything she used put him through. She never had to lift a finger to fix anything. In fact, she was dragging her feet the whole time (the subconscious motive being to test his mettle), for about two months until being convinced that the change was real.

 

OP's wife probably has no clue as to how incredibly fortunate she is. The world is chock-full of divorced middle-aged single custodian mothers struggling financially and having difficulty in properly raising their children at a severe disadvantage on the dating market.

 

 

Neither version is especially wonderful, and I sure as hell would tell my daughter or son if they were in this situation that I think they would be better off apart. I'm not saying that because I think either one of them is a terrible person, but because they just don't sound like they are all that compatible. Him changing his looks, getting is shape, etc. won't change that.

 

In effect, what the op did was an extended version of the 180 and that is not a bad thing at all. I just don't think it really worked in his situation. It sounds more like two people who are sticking together for their children, and while that is certainly very noble, it isn't always for the best.

 

It's not about me being a woman, the op not being pc or any other nonsense. It's about being a third party who has been given a glimpse into the situation and thinking that all of them deserves much better. I have known several women who are like the op's wife, and if asked, the H would relate "well, we are having lots of sex so she must be happy"-because he was happy'. The wife was not, but she was staying for the kids, and right down to the last one, all of the children in those marriages were affected deeply by it.

 

It's not just the sex and the orgasms that indicate that she's much happier now than before. By OP's description, his wife seems to be in a much better mood than before. That's not surprising since his husband's behavior is much more manly in a lot of ways than it used to be.

 

I'm not necessarily saying they should divorce. what I am saying is that a marriage will not be happy place if it's all ( or even mostly) about one spouse or the other. The op has experienced this when it was all about her. It's now shifted to be mostly about him and what he wants, and that simply is not sustainable.

 

It's still mainly about HER. Men have an instinct to protect and to provide for their families. OP seems to be one of those men who have this instinct in spades. In spite of having to take up the grueling task of reforming himself from the ground up, he still sees his wife as the girl he fell in love with as a teenager. I think it is safe to say that the marriage works for him despite all the trials and tribulations he's gone through.

 

One more time...I'm not saying the op is a bad guy, a jerk, an ass or anything like that. I'm asking if he really believes she made some deep seated change. Was she really a zebra who changed her stripes?

 

She never changed one bit. The change in her attitude and behavior toward her husband is entirely the result of a shift in HIS attitude and behavior. OP's wife is merely reacting. She's always had the potential to react this way. She did not change in any way just like a person who's been standing outside in cold weather will stop shivering and will begin to sweat after entering a hot boiler room and staying there for a few minutes cannot be said to "have changed" as a result.

 

in all honesty, if it keep up the way it is, I could see her cheating on him, not because he deserves it, but because I'm not getting the sense she has any sort of emotional investment in the marriage beyond maintaining the status quo for the kids. Is that really what the op wanted, or would he rather be with a woman who loves him for who and what he is, not one who he had to jump through hoops like he did.

 

I'm having difficulty understanding why you find it so impossible to understand why OP's wife would love OP, the father of her children and her husband, a man who, after getting his act together, pushes all her attractiveness buttons, listens to her problems without burdening her with too many of his problems, does his share of the house work (OP wrote he ditched video games and took up home improvement), earns a friggin' six-figure-salary, is fit and physically attractive, is 100% loyal to her, loves her in spite of all her faults and is a good father on top of everything. Why do you think a man like this so impossible to love?

Edited April 27, 2017 by AMarriedMan

[JuneL]

There seems to be a bit of a gender divide for the comments in this thread.

 

As a woman, I am probably an outlier here. The general impression I got is that, instead of begging for more physical intimacy like in the past, the OP has worked hard to become a husband whom his wife desires — physically. I also disagree that his wife is doing this out of fear that the OP may divorce her. The thing is, the OP could have threatened to divorce her in the old days, before his "transformation".

Edited April 27, 2017 by JuneL

[JuneL]

OP: I went back to read your past threads, and it's hard to believe that your wife's reluctance to have sex with you was due *mainly* to her loss of attraction to you, physically or mentally. It seemed that both of you had a lot of resentment and hurt. Could it be that your complete "makeover" (in terms of looks and personality) gave her a chance to start over with you as a new person and get your old history out of her mind?

 

I should add that the OP's "transformation" may make it possible for them to have a fresh start?

[Bufo]

The hypothesizing about whether OP's wife has changed her spots or not is pure speculation. The facts we know are that she has changed her attitude and behavior towards him and did so after he implemented the self-directed changes in his life.

 

OP didn't mention that they had moved to Stepford (I guess you have to a certain age to get that reference) so I choose to believe what OP has stated: her attitude and behavior changed after he changed. Remember it took her awhile to accept the changes and even longer to change herself.

 

If she is engaged in some nefarious plot to pretend to like the new OP and leave him high and dry without notice? Well, I submit that he is in far better condition to accept that and move on favorably with his life.

 

She should be eternally grateful that OP put up with her for 15 years. He had every reason to leave but didn't. And if she genuinely is sacrificing her personality and self-esteem now as some have posted as. Real possibility? Well, by my math she owes him about 14 years then they'll be even.