Author Martian Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 How did you manage time to get fit? That's where I lose out. Always feeling guilty when I don't spend spare time with the kids. The biggest part was the weight loss. That doesn't take extra time, it's 95% diet. I adopted a keto diet. Very low carb (<30g per day), high fat. Think cheese and bacon. For the workouts, I do weight training mostly which takes much less time than cardio. I set up a home gym. This lets me be flexible. Sometimes I work out in the morning, but mostly in the evening. On weekends, my daughter joins me in the room reading her books while I do my thing. And we joke and chat between sets. It's a good bonding experience. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
JuneL Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 No, she's still overweight. Not obese, but overweight. Would you encourage you to get into better shape and groom herself better to match you? Or would you get insecure if she becomes a hot wife one day? ;-) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Martian Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 Would you encourage you to get into better shape and groom herself better to match you? Or would you get insecure if she becomes a hot wife one day? ;-) I know she has insecurities about her body and tried to lose weight for a long time, it just didn't work (with a few short term exceptions). I like her fine the way she is for the most part. Me not finding her desirable was never the problem. I'm not putting any pressure on her in this department whatsoever. I personally don't need a trophy wife or anything. But if she made fitness a priority in her life, I would do my best to support her. Right now her focus is studying, so that's where she gets my support. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Martian Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) Why did this work? What are the lessons you learned and other men should be aware of? Oh boy. There is so much I learned. So much stuff I wish I could send back in time to my younger self to spare years of frustration for everyone. Let me start with one thing though. Stated and revealed preferences are not the same Like many sexually frustrated husbands, I tried to troubleshoot our sex life like a broken lawnmower. Find the source of the problem → Do the fix → Enjoy the functional machine Which meant: Ask the wife what she is missing (X) → Do X → Get sex from the wife Turns out, this is extremely naive for a number of reasons. Let's say I have a dadbod. And it's a turnoff for the wife. How will it play out in practice? She may not be aware that this is actually the reason for not being sexually attracted to me any more. She just doesn't feel it. And when I ask she makes guesses at what the reason could be. Let's say she does know that my dadbod is a turnoff. She can't or won't tell it to me straight up because (among other things): It's not socially acceptable to judge or 'punish' someone based on their physical appearance. She is not supposed to care about my dadbod. It would make her look shallow. So she won't tell me the truth. She wants to spare my feelings because either she doesn't want to hurt me (she doesn't know that sexual rejections hurt me way more) or deal with the possible fallout. How do you tell someone who is somewhat overweight that they should get in shape, when you yourself are much more fat? What if that's not the only reason? What if he gets in shape and you still aren't attracted to him? Why risk the repercussions? If you admit to someone that you don't find them sexually attractive any more that can blow up the relationship, the family, your life as you know it. Very risky. If her social circle / family finds out that she is rejecting me because of my dadbod she can be judged harshly as a superficial persona and bad wife. Etc, etc. And dadbods are a among the fairly straightforward elements. There are many more complicated but attractive attributes that you can't just easily tell to your partner about. Because it's sensitive, and because when he does it after you asked him to do it, it's not authentic. Being firm, being adventurous and fun, being emotionally self sufficient, being confident, taking the lead and the initiative when needed, sometimes even being mysterious, standing up to your bull**** when you behave like a spoiled brat etc. And she may not even be consciously aware of what's missing. She'd just feel that "the spark is gone". There is about how the very things we value in a long term relationship: emotional comfort, predictability, routine, dependability etc kill sexual desire in the long run. Once I went through this paradigm shift that my life can't tell me what is needed to get our life back on track, things changed in a big way. I basically started preparing for the dating scene (need to be fit for that shirtless Tinder pic ). In the meantime I secretly hoped that my wife (who's first in line) will also like the new me. I was lucky and she did. Let me highlight the stated vs revealed preferences with 2 examples from my marriage. Example 1: Choreplay When I was in lawnmower troubleshooting mode, I asked her straight up what's missing for a reasonable sex life. (If she said I need to be fluent in mandarin I probably would have done that. ) She herself realized that she just doesn't feel like having sex and either she knew why and decided not to say (possibly for reasons menionted above) or just made a best guess: she said that she could use more help at home with the household chores. Me: Ok, finally! Why didn't you say so? That sounds easy. Boom, I went full retard with chores. There was other stuff on her list, romantic gestures, nonsexual hugs and kisses etc. Easy-peasy. I can do that. Throttled to 11. Net effect on sex life? Zero. I got royally pissed. From my perspective she lied to my face. I think at that point I initiated a divorce again. (And she saved the marriage again with some reset sex that lasted a couple of days.) But the fact is, I was just being naive about how sexual attraction works. Example 2: muscles She always tried to sabotage my workouts. Her line was that only women that you pick up at bars are attracted to that kind of thing. When I involved my son in lifting she came to confront me again about this. Basically try to pin me as some Jersey Shore guy who now wants to turn his teenage son into The Hulk. So I showed her the cover of the fitness book we were using so she can see what we're aiming for. It showed the torso of a dude who was muscular and fit, roughly like Brad Pritt from Fight Club. And for a couple of seconds her mask fell. Her face went "ooooh", she started giggling like a teenage girl then caught herself and her face went full red. OMG she was so cute! At that point I was already ignoring her about how attractive a fit body is, but this scene confirmed me that I'm on the right track. P.S. I have more to say about advice I'd give to my younger self. So to be continued... Edited March 29, 2017 by Martian 5 Link to post Share on other sites
JuneL Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 OP: I encourage you to blog about your journey so that more people can borrow from your experience ;-) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JuneL Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 OP: I went back to read your past threads, and it's hard to believe that your wife's reluctance to have sex with you was due *mainly* to her loss of attraction to you, physically or mentally. It seemed that both of you had a lot of resentment and hurt. Could it be that your complete "makeover" (in terms of looks and personality) gave her a chance to start over with you as a new person and get your old history out of her mind? Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) For future reference or for anyone else in a similar situation of Martian - if a wife pushes back and criticizes getting fit [] The proper responses are - - YYYYESSSS!!! Kaching!!!!! :-D - "if that's the case, I'm only going to take the redheads up on it." - "cool. Meet me at Benny's after work tomorrow and if you're the first one to buy me a drink, you might be the lucky one that gets to take me home ;-) " - " oh thanks for reminding me. I'm gonna need to pick up some breath mints before I go out tomorrow night'" Edited March 29, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator repeated language violations; 2 week suspension ~6 1 Link to post Share on other sites
xenawarriorprincess Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Sounds like you were passing some serious dread onto your wife and it paid off! As Long Term Relationships (LTR) are complicated and often times good men tend to get the crap end of the deal, Married Red Pill encourages married men to pass dread onto their wives. Passing dread can be done in several different ways, such as frequenting the gym and eating healthier to get into better physical shape and to obtain a better looking physique, openly flirting with other women and often times obtaining a phone number, or just going out and doing his own thing for a few hours without her. All of these things are intended to pass dread onto the wife, causing her to go into a panic/jump start mode to get her act together and secure her Alpha Mate by losing the attitude and often times becoming a sexual dynamo. By passing dread onto his wife, the wife becomes instantly aware that other women can be attracted to her husband’s new hot body, suave flirtatious charms, or his independence; thus forcing the wife to compete with outside women to secure and maintain her Alpha’s interest in her. It is my understanding that passing dread will snap the wife out of the fallacy that no other woman wants or is attracted to her husband but her. There often times becomes a delusional frame of mind in a wife that allows her to think that no one else, or no one hotter than her would ever be interested in her spouse, this creates a false sense of power in the wife’s mind that she will attempt to abuse if her husband allows it. Thus, passing dread onto her will snap her out of this fallacy and make her hyperaware that he is desirable to others and this will cause her to adjust her attitude and change her behavior in order to secure the bond with her mate. Sounds like you are an excellent example of how passing dread can change a marriage for the better! Congrats to you and your new life with your wife 2 Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 OP: I went back to read your past threads, and it's hard to believe that your wife's reluctance to have sex with you was due *mainly* to her loss of attraction to you, physically or mentally. It seemed that both of you had a lot of resentment and hurt. Could it be that your complete "makeover" (in terms of looks and personality) gave her a chance to start over with you as a new person and get your old history out of her mind? I think it's mainly because he became less available, less predictable and more dominant. That is what women find attractive above any physical appearance. It was his attitude makeover. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
wmacbride Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I mean no offense by this, but what is her side of the story in all of this? We are hearing form you how horrible, cold, mean, cruel and nasty she was to you, but in my experience, it's rarely a one sided state. I know men are going to be chest bumping you and patting you on the back, but it sounds to me like you and your wife have done little more than exchange places. Something you said sticks out to me. You mentioned that she didn't want a divorce because of your kids, So in an effort to keep her kids in a to parent home, you have basically broken your wife's spirit. Please note that I am NOT saying her behavior before towards you was acceptable. It clearly was not. She wounded you deeply, and I have a feeling that pain is still there, just below the surface for you. I'm not saying you are wrong in your feelings in any way, shape or form. What I am saying is that a relationship where the woman or man only endures unkind treatment ( though I bet you're going to say you aren't being unkind , as you go on trips, you listen to her, etc.) to keep the marriage together for the kids, it's not healthy It wasn't healthy for you to sty, nor is it for her. Your kids will be seeing this, and you two are teaching hem that relationships are nothing but drama etc. You are also expecting your wife to have sex with you so your kids can stay in a two person home, as she knows what will happen if she slips up or fail to meet your standards. Is that really the kind of relationship you want? You whistle, she jumps just so your kids wont be form a broken home? Just my humble opinion, which could be crap, are you sure you aren't better off as co-parents instead of husband and wife? you can still be close, you can still be good friends, but a lot of the pressure and tension would be gone. Of course, I could be completely wrong, and if I am, I apologize. Feelf ree to tell me off if I am Link to post Share on other sites
wmacbride Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 It's painful to talk about this, but here it goes. During the dark years of my marriage sex was so scarce that I made do with pity handjobs. When sex actually happened, I was so eager to please her and make it a positive experience with her that I completely deprioritized my own needs in the bedroom. She had her own hangups and had trouble verbalizing what she wanted. Missionary while she was "lying back and thinking of England" a.k.a. the silent starfish was a step up from the handjobs. Didn't happen often. But after my fixing attempt I knew I wanted more. Very early on I made her fill out a sex quiz, but literally nothing came out of it. (It might have been too early, when she wasn't really attracted to me yet). Later on I decided that just like in other areas of my life, I'm going to be more assertive in the bedroom and just try things. I wasn't sure how she'd react. (Esp. after she insisted that vanilla is all she wanted and that she's not that kind of girl.) I researched and shopped for sex toys, different vibrators, collars, ball gags, blindfolds, handcuffs etc. I started simply telling her what to do and carefully upped the ante over time. And amazingly there was no resistance. Light choking, hair pulling, ass slapping, anal play. It just all worked and she came harder than ever. I would have had been completely ok with her saying no to a number of things, but that just hasn't happened yet. Just to paint a picture of the transformation from 3 years ago. Sexless marriage with the occasional pity handjob. She is upset that I get touchy feely at the kitchen counter. "Why do you have to turn everything sexual?! Can't we just hug?!" My touch literally creeps her out. My masculine identity is being destroyed day by day. I'm being shamed and feel like a pervert / rapist. Today: all kinds of ass slapping, french kissing and sexual touch during the day. She actually comes up to me. I motorboat her cleavage and she likes it. I just throw her around in the bedroom and stuff that was unimaginable even during our hormone filled teenage years is suddenly on the table. Turns out that my new version can get away with 50x more stuff that from the old me would have had been just creepy. It's surreal. If someone told me this 3 years ago I would have laughed them in the face. I'm sorry, but after reading this, my previous opinion still stands, only it's even lower than before. You have basically scared her into this by the sword over her head of your kids suffering through their parents splitting up. I don;t think that;s something to boast about. Just as a test, take away the threat of divorce, and see if she reverts. If she doesn't, I am completely wrong, if she does, what does that tell you? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
central Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I'm sorry, but after reading this, my previous opinion still stands, only it's even lower than before. You have basically scared her into this by the sword over her head of your kids suffering through their parents splitting up. I don;t think that;s something to boast about. Just as a test, take away the threat of divorce, and see if she reverts. If she doesn't, I am completely wrong, if she does, what does that tell you? It sounds like they have a reasonably good relationship now. So what if he had to threaten divorce to wake her up to the reality that she could lose her husband? He made a choice to try to fix things so he could stay. She made a choice to fix things so he would stay. She could choose divorce if she's unwilling to work together. That's life. He made all the sacrifices previously - and we don't know if she's making sacrifices now, but I doubt that having a normal relationship that includes sex with her husband is a terrible burden (I bet she's actually enjoying her marriage, now). Apparently, if she is making sacrifices, they're worth it to her. Maybe she'll divorce him once the kids are out of the house. Still, a win-win for them both. In his situation, I would have tried some things but more likely would have divorced her. I give him credit for trying so hard. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
wmacbride Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) I think it's mainly because he became less available, less predictable and more dominant. That is what women find attractive above any physical appearance. It was his attitude makeover. Actually, some women find his ' ass slapping, motorboating", etc. to be extremely offensive, especially when they feel they have been backed into a corner. How much is she attracted to him, and how much is she feels she has little to no choice? I know I sound like a downer and that I am harping on the op. I suppose I am. It's just that his story is really sad, and he could do better for himself, and his wife for herself, in a relationship where there wasn't this dynamic going on. I'm not a man, so maybe this next opinion is bunk, but if I was a man, I wouldn't be happy having sex with my wife if I knew that I'd had to threaten her with divorce to get her to change. I would always wonder if she was still of the mindset where ( according to the op) "Wife told me straight up that she doesn't love me any more and we should stay together for the kids." As I said above, if you took that threat away, what would happen? Does she still feel this way? Is all of her new found interest in sex because she's afraid? is she afraid that if she says "no" to some new sexual exploration you want to try that you'll divorce her? Have you ever hinted at this, or said something that could be taken that way? Mind you, of course, I could be totally wrong. She could have rediscovered her attraction to you and she could be finding her way back to you. I'm just saying to be careful, as there is a whole lot of factors at play here. If she was asked, what do you think her analysis of the situation would be? Have you asked her if she is happy. if she says "yes", do you feel that's completely honest? If you feel she's happy with the new status quo, why? Why do you think she stays with you? Is it because she loves you and your marriage? Edited March 29, 2017 by wmacbride Link to post Share on other sites
NTV Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 So how much did you lose on the kelo diet and where'd you start off? How quickly did it come off? Link to post Share on other sites
wmacbride Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 It sounds like they have a reasonably good relationship now. So what if he had to threaten divorce to wake her up to the reality that she could lose her husband? He made a choice to try to fix things so he could stay. She made a choice to fix things so he would stay. She could choose divorce if she's unwilling to work together. That's life. He made all the sacrifices previously - and we don't know if she's making sacrifices now, but I doubt that having a normal relationship that includes sex with her husband is a terrible burden (I bet she's actually enjoying her marriage, now). Apparently, if she is making sacrifices, they're worth it to her. Maybe she'll divorce him once the kids are out of the house. Still, a win-win for them both. In his situation, I would have tried some things but more likely would have divorced her. I give him credit for trying so hard. This is my point. We are not able to hear her side of the story, and it could be very different. She could be very unhappy, he could be treating her like crap( I doubt it though) but we don't know. The op doesn't sound like a bad guy at all. He sounds like he has a very kind heart, and I don;t think he'd want to hurt his wife. This is why I am asking him to really look at the situation, beyond the sex. Why does his wife stay with him? He himself mentioned that it was important to stay together for the kids ( his wife says). What sort of relationship lessons is their marriage teaching them? To threaten divorce to get what you want? Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Actually, some women find his ' ass slapping, motorboating", etc. to be extremely offensive, especially when they feel they have been backed into a corner. How much is she attracted to him, and how much is she feels she has little to no choice? I know I sound like a downer and that I am harping on the op. I suppose I am. It's just that his story is really sad, and he could do better for himself, and his wife for herself, in a relationship where there wasn't this dynamic going on. I'm not a man, so maybe this next opinion is bunk, but if I was a man, I wouldn't be happy having sex with my wife if I knew that I'd had to threaten her with divorce to get her to change. I would always wonder if she was still of the mindset where ( according to the op) "Wife told me straight up that she doesn't love me any more and we should stay together for the kids." As I said above, if you took that threat away, what would happen? Does she still feel this way? Is all of her new found interest in sex because she's afraid? is she afraid that if she says "no" to some new sexual exploration you want to try that you'll divorce her? Have you ever hinted at this, or said something that could be taken that way? Mind you, of course, I could be totally wrong. She could have rediscovered her attraction to you and she could be finding her way back to you. I'm just saying to be careful, as there is a whole lot of factors at play here. If she was asked, what do you think her analysis of the situation would be? Have you asked her if she is happy. if she says "yes", do you feel that's completely honest? If you feel she's happy with the new status quo, why? Why do you think she stays with you? Is it because she loves you and your marriage? What's sad about it? He spent the majority of the relationship trying to make her happy. He had a change in mindset proir to taking the divorce route and focused on what makes him happy and low and behold she responds. Let's be clear, he clearly stated his wife didn't and doesn't know of his plans to divorce should it not work so I'm not sure the under divorce pressure applies here. She responded because she was sexually aroused by the new attitude, if not, being that she had no problems rejecting him sexually in the past she would have continued to do so. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
JuneL Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 This is my point. We are not able to hear her side of the story, and it could be very different. She could be very unhappy, he could be treating her like crap( I doubt it though) but we don't know. The op doesn't sound like a bad guy at all. He sounds like he has a very kind heart, and I don;t think he'd want to hurt his wife. This is why I am asking him to really look at the situation, beyond the sex. Why does his wife stay with him? He himself mentioned that it was important to stay together for the kids ( his wife says). What sort of relationship lessons is their marriage teaching them? To threaten divorce to get what you want? I thought they did talk about separation a few times before the OP embarked on his makeover journey (and the wife still refused intimacy, consistently). Maybe the wife was flattered by how much the OP was willing to go through in order to gain her attraction. Most know that women are mostly attracted to guys with "alpha" traits (and having good looks is a bonus), but few have the discipline and perseverance to achieve that state. Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I thought they did talk about separation a few times before the OP embarked on his makeover journey (and the wife still refused intimacy, consistently). Maybe the wife was flattered by how much the OP was willing to go through in order to gain her attraction. Most know that women are mostly attracted to guys with "alpha" traits (and having good looks is a bonus), but few have the discipline and perseverance to achieve that state. If I'm being honest with my opinion, I believe she was attracted because his transformation made her insecure in a relationship where she was very comfortable and secure. This ramped up her primal drive. Link to post Share on other sites
central Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 This is my point. We are not able to hear her side of the story, and it could be very different. She could be very unhappy, he could be treating her like crap( I doubt it though) but we don't know. The op doesn't sound like a bad guy at all. He sounds like he has a very kind heart, and I don;t think he'd want to hurt his wife. This is why I am asking him to really look at the situation, beyond the sex. Why does his wife stay with him? He himself mentioned that it was important to stay together for the kids ( his wife says). What sort of relationship lessons is their marriage teaching them? To threaten divorce to get what you want? If she's very unhappy, she can leave. She can either support herself or get alimony (at least until she can support herself, depending where they live). She's not being forced, but is making her own evaluation of pros and cons, just as he did. He also did not cheat, so they are learning that sometimes relationships can be fixed without resorting to unethical choices. The kids - if even aware - are learning valuable life lessons: that you can't take relationships for granted; you can't neglect your spouse without consequences; compromise and cooperation are necessary for a good marriage; forever isn't guaranteed if you neglect or abuse your spouse 4 Link to post Share on other sites
xenawarriorprincess Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I mean no offense by this, but what is her side of the story in all of this? We are hearing form you how horrible, cold, mean, cruel and nasty she was to you, but in my experience, it's rarely a one sided state. I know men are going to be chest bumping you and patting you on the back, but it sounds to me like you and your wife have done little more than exchange places. Something you said sticks out to me. You mentioned that she didn't want a divorce because of your kids, So in an effort to keep her kids in a to parent home, you have basically broken your wife's spirit. Please note that I am NOT saying her behavior before towards you was acceptable. It clearly was not. She wounded you deeply, and I have a feeling that pain is still there, just below the surface for you. I'm not saying you are wrong in your feelings in any way, shape or form. What I am saying is that a relationship where the woman or man only endures unkind treatment ( though I bet you're going to say you aren't being unkind , as you go on trips, you listen to her, etc.) to keep the marriage together for the kids, it's not healthy It wasn't healthy for you to sty, nor is it for her. Your kids will be seeing this, and you two are teaching hem that relationships are nothing but drama etc. You are also expecting your wife to have sex with you so your kids can stay in a two person home, as she knows what will happen if she slips up or fail to meet your standards. Is that really the kind of relationship you want? You whistle, she jumps just so your kids wont be form a broken home? Just my humble opinion, which could be crap, are you sure you aren't better off as co-parents instead of husband and wife? you can still be close, you can still be good friends, but a lot of the pressure and tension would be gone. Of course, I could be completely wrong, and if I am, I apologize. Feelf ree to tell me off if I am I do not believe that the OP did anything wrong or manipulative in his marriage. You cannot change your spouse; you can ONLY change yourself and your behavior, which is what the OP did. He changed his health, his hygiene, and the way he responds to his wife; he did not cheat, coerce, or manipulate her. He changed himself for the better, and in doing so his wife took notice and begun to change herself and her behavior towards him. His change and new outlook on life exuded confidence, strength and respect and his wife responded to that and respected that after her initial uneasiness about his change. Now they are both happier and enjoying each other as man and wife. I am a woman and I am chest bumping and patting him on the back for his transformation and growth which has deeply benefitted his life and his marriage. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Martian Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 Why does his wife stay with him? He himself mentioned that it was important to stay together for the kids ( his wife says). What sort of relationship lessons is their marriage teaching them? To threaten divorce to get what you want? Just to clarify this point. I did not and do not threaten her with divorce. (I tried to separate back in the old days multiple times, but there was always just enough reset sex from her to keep me hopeful. If you feel she's happy with the new status quo, why? Of course I'm biased, but I'd like to think that she got an improved husband. I take her on surprise trips, I'm more spontantenous, more fun. I worked hard to eliminate all kinds of passive aggressive behavior. I set higher standards for myself. For what I eat, for what I spend my time with (e.g. home improvement instead of video games). I don't get butthurt, I never complain. Actually, some women find his ' ass slapping, motorboating", etc. to be extremely offensive, True. My wife would have found it extremely offensive from the old me too. I had to learn (and it's often astonishing to me to what extent this actually can be true) that the same behavior coming from someone attractive is considered playful and cute, while from a person who is not attractive it's douchy and even creepy. It can be anything from jokes to sexually forward behavior. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BluesPower Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 To those who disapprove of OP's methods... I applaud his determination to make his marriage work or divorce. I never went to that extreme. I will say that my marriage had many huge problems, none caused by me, BTW. I repeatedly told my wife that there are hundreds of woman that want to be with me, and in fact I knew I was right. For me, I had already lost weight, but still not down to fighting weight yet but close. I had already started getting out more and back heavily into the music scene and playing with a variety of "kind of famous" local acts. But I pulled the trigger for many other reason. But I will say this about my situation. When I could start openly dating she lost her mind. One night it was particularly funny. My sons' band was playing at a local bar that I frequent and play at as well. She was there supporting the kids. And I was just minding my own business. And, during the night, about 6 different women, some that I know and some I did not know, kept coming by my table and chatting me up and hanging and kissing on me. She was watching this from across the room with a girl friend. I was not really trying to be with anyone that night, I was just trying to support the kids and help with any technical problems. My STBXW was completely livid in every way. Some of those girls I still go out with. Point is later she bitched at me about me being disrespectful, WTF? I told her 1) We are no longer together, and you could have left anytime you wanted, and 2) I already told you that this is how it was going to be for after we split. You should have listened when I told you that women find me attractive for a lot of reasons. She is just now starting to understand what a mistake it was to not treat me properly in the first place. Too bad for her, I am happier being single anyway... She lost her chance. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Martian Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 I am NOT saying her behavior before towards you was acceptable. It clearly was not. She wounded you deeply, and I have a feeling that pain is still there, just below the surface for you. I don't blame her. Attraction is not a choice. I understand now that the idea of sex with a man to whom a woman is not attracted to is different from just another chore. It's not simple laziness or complacency. For many women their body is literally repulsed by the idea of sex like this and pushing through can be a traumatic, almost rape like experience. I obviously don't want this. Just like most of us, I want to be wanted. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Martian Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 You are also expecting your wife to have sex with you so your kids can stay in a two person home, as she knows what will happen if she slips up or fail to meet your standards. I'm not going to apologize for having standards. If she told me on our first date that we'd be celibate after we married I would have walked away right then and there. I don't think it's unreasonable to aim for a romantic relationship with actual sexual desire and a mutually satisfying sex life. If we're not compatible that way, it's not her fault, then I want to find out and move on. Then she and I both can go and find partners who actually want us. I spent 15 years in a room mate marriage and it turned me into a mental wreck. I have a few years left before I get old and sick, I want to spend those with someone who appreciates me. Also: I literally can't go back to the old status quo without some sort of heavy medication. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
wmacbride Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Just to clarify this point. I did not and do not threaten her with divorce. (I tried to separate back in the old days multiple times, but there was always just enough reset sex from her to keep me hopeful. Of course I'm biased, but I'd like to think that she got an improved husband. I take her on surprise trips, I'm more spontantenous, more fun. I worked hard to eliminate all kinds of passive aggressive behavior. I set higher standards for myself. For what I eat, for what I spend my time with (e.g. home improvement instead of video games). I don't get butthurt, I never complain. True. My wife would have found it extremely offensive from the old me too. I had to learn (and it's often astonishing to me to what extent this actually can be true) that the same behavior coming from someone attractive is considered playful and cute, while from a person who is not attractive it's douchy and even creepy. It can be anything from jokes to sexually forward behavior. Between strangers, yes. changing your appearance doesn't make creepy behavior any less creepy ( in spite of what guys think) Link to post Share on other sites
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