Age old story- why?

[aileD]

Just from reading here and other places online, I hear the same story Over and over and over again.

 

I'm going to take it from the male side because that's the majority I see, but can go either way.

 

You marry a girl, have a few kids,life happens then:

 

"I love you but I'm not in love with you".

 

Sometimes an affair happens or sometimes it's divorce.

 

Do you just get bored with us? Does us becoming mothers turn you off sexually? Do the years of raising children and weariness and less attention on you make you fall out of love? Is the relationship not fun anymore when we have to share bills and "adult"??

 

Why all of a sudden (or gradually) do we "have nothing in common" Or "no connection" etc

 

Why do you spend years of your lives with us..decades even then just decide to move on? Just decide you don't want to spend forever with us? Decide you connect better with some chick from accounting instead?

 

Why is it so difficult to have longevity in marriage?

[CaliforniaGirl]

Because the rose colored glasses of an in-love feeling eventually come off, real life sets in, and it just doesn't seem the same as it did in the beginning.

 

What seemed cute in the beginning gets old when it is day after day, work loads can feel uneven and cause resentment, and yes, having kids changes both of you.

[Sweetfish]

Just from reading here and other places online, I hear the same story Over and over and over again.

 

I'm going to take it from the male side because that's the majority I see, but can go either way.

 

You marry a girl, have a few kids,life happens then:

 

"I love you but I'm not in love with you".

 

Sometimes an affair happens or sometimes it's divorce.

 

Do you just get bored with us? Does us becoming mothers turn you off sexually? Do the years of raising children and weariness and less attention on you make you fall out of love? Is the relationship not fun anymore when we have to share bills and "adult"??

 

Why all of a sudden (or gradually) do we "have nothing in common" Or "no connection" etc

 

Why do you spend years of your lives with us..decades even then just decide to move on? Just decide you don't want to spend forever with us? Decide you connect better with some chick from accounting instead?

 

Why is it so difficult to have longevity in marriage?

 

 

Wait? Are you saying more men use the line "I love you but I'm not in love with you"? More often than women?

 

 

I will tell you what causes many men to sway...

 

Reduction of sex and/or letting your self go.

[aileD]

Wait? Are you saying more men use the line "I love you but I'm not in love with you"? More often than women?

 

 

I will tell you what causes many men to sway...

 

Reduction of sex and/or letting your self go.

 

So then "in love" for men is based on sex and visuals?

 

This is what I don't get. Isn't love supposed to be more than that? Why can't you love us if we get fat? Or have dry spells ?

[Chilli]

Actually more women use that line and race of with someone than men, it's fact.

 

But , in my case. Life and family and mortgages and working and convo and sacrifice after sacrifice, it all really is hard on a couple over 20yrs.

You can completely lose your old selves in it all.

And then there's the attraction side, yep she puts on weight and lets herself go but it's more than that. All you been hearing about for the last 10yrs is kids and bills and sh@t your suppose to do and working and trying.

But regardless, on attraction alone, myself l use to wonder if humans were even meant to stay together forever bc even if you both still look like models, you been stoking the same fire 20yrs - is it even possible to want to keep going?

 

Tough sh2t being married. Take my hat of to the old people that made it work.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Chilli

[somanymistakes]

I don't think any of us are qualified to say whether men or women use that line more. They DEFINITELY both use it. All the time.

 

As for why things so often fall apart... Well, while we like to pretend that monogamous couple marriage for life is the rock on which human society is built, it's really never been that simple. Throughout history there have always been lots of places where that wasn't the norm at all. Even in cultures built around one man one woman marriages, in many cases those marriages were about building a household, an official family, a legal and financial partnership.... not about sexual monogamy. (At least not for the man of the house, but that's a separate story)

 

And, of course, in a lot of history people didn't live nearly as long as they do these days, or have as many opportunities as they do now. Both those things combine to have the effect that people change. While on LS we are largely talking about affairs breaking marriages apart, I know couples who fall apart for other reasons. One partner suddenly gets involved with religion, or politics, or wants a new career, wants to go to university, wants to travel to Nicaragua and volunteer to build houses for a village... I know a couple who uprooted their city lives to buy a house in the suburbs in preparation for having children, then once they got there and started meeting the local housewives, the wife of the couple completely freaked out at the thought of becoming one of them, declared she would NEVER have children, and they ended up divorcing.

 

And yes, there's the attraction issue as well, and (in some people's opinion) the "false advertising" issue. Plenty of people are outraged that when they get married, their partner stops trying so hard to be attractive and pleasing... while the singles still on the hunt remain as hot and well-made-up as ever. Or in some cases a spouse really did lie, or at least pretend to be something they're not, in order to get you to tie the knot.

 

So there's this pressure between the two competing ideas - "You promised to stay by my side for better or for worse" vs "You are no longer the person I married"

[Eternal Sunshine]

The whole idea of marriage is beyond me. I don't see anything appealing in doing household chores, running out of conversation (except for tedious details of things like supermarket shopping) and watching TV on the couch day in, day out. Rinse and repeat.

 

I would rather travel the world and live the life of adventure. The only appealing thing is to have someone to look after me when I get old/sick (as bad as that sounds). I guess doing physical things and "manly jobs" is something but the trade off between me doing the emotional labor required to maintain the marriage and extra household chores, seems hardly worth it.

 

I am yet to meet a man that made my life easier.

[No_Go]

The whole idea of marriage is beyond me. I don't see anything appealing in doing household chores, running out of conversation (except for tedious details of things like supermarket shopping) and watching TV on the couch day in, day out. Rinse and repeat.

 

I would rather travel the world and live the life of adventure. The only appealing thing is to have someone to look after me when I get old/sick (as bad as that sounds). I guess doing physical things and "manly jobs" is something but the trade off between me doing the emotional labor required to maintain the marriage and extra household chores, seems hardly worth it.

 

I am yet to meet a man that made my life easier.

 

Haha, I've never been married but judging from my live-in relationships - I've never been doing the chores, my partners were cooking, grocery shopping etc. This was actually a big plus of cohabitation - I never had to worry about chores.

 

Marriage has undeniable social, emotional and financial advantages. From better tax rates to less questions from 'concerned relatives' to better environment for raising kids...

[No_Go]

To OP: I think marriages doesn't last because of the Disney Princess world of fantasies in which kids are raised.

 

The 'love-based' marriages placed so much harm on the society that I wonder isn't it time to start thinking about marriage in more practical terms and put the fantasies aside. I'm thinking about marriage more in terms of small business (creating and sustaining a family unit with all the associated tasks and responsibilities) rather than a meaningless lovey-dovey story with no foundation.

[jenkins95]

Just from reading here and other places online, I hear the same story Over and over and over again.

 

I'm going to take it from the male side because that's the majority I see, but can go either way.

 

You marry a girl, have a few kids,life happens then:

 

"I love you but I'm not in love with you".

 

Sometimes an affair happens or sometimes it's divorce.

 

Do you just get bored with us? Does us becoming mothers turn you off sexually? Do the years of raising children and weariness and less attention on you make you fall out of love? Is the relationship not fun anymore when we have to share bills and "adult"??

 

Why all of a sudden (or gradually) do we "have nothing in common" Or "no connection" etc

 

Why do you spend years of your lives with us..decades even then just decide to move on? Just decide you don't want to spend forever with us? Decide you connect better with some chick from accounting instead?

 

Why is it so difficult to have longevity in marriage?

 

(((aileD))) I haven't caught up with your threads lately - I really hope things are going well in R for you and your husband?

 

I am going to speak frankly here. Please know that I am not being flippant, I am just being honest in the light of over a year of reflections and recovery post A......

 

1. Was I unhappy in my life and marriage pre-A?

 

Not really! Like most marriages, we had our issues, things could occasionally become a little stale and dull, and our lives rotated around the normal daily grind of work/kids/family etc, which can sometimes feel mundane - but this is normal life for most of us, right!

 

 

2. Did I feel "I love you but I am not in love with you" for my wife.

 

No!

And in fact I hate this phrase because cheaters can twist it and hide behind it. Of course, after being together for over twenty years, I rarely feel like teengager around my wife, with uncontrollable butterflies and not able to keep myself from tearing her clothes off (and vice versa, and I'm sure it's the same for most of you guys). But what I describe there is limerence - what we get at the beginning of a relationship and it doesn't last. And if that is what people mean when they utter ILYBINILWY (and I think lots do), then that is truly ridiculous and a hideous, twisted form of self-justification! I did and still do feel a deep mature love for my wife which fits the description of "being in love" just fine for me.

 

 

3. So why did I have an affair?

 

BECAUSE IT WAS FUN!!!!

 

....and I had character flaws which enabled me to do it.

 

Often it is just that simple especially with guys.

 

I had been a good boy pretty much all my life and had not dated a woman except my wife in many years. Suddenly, an attractive, young girl was showing an interest in me and giving me "that look" that I hadn't seen from another woman in many years. An opportunity presented itself, I had poor boundaries, a sense of entitlement, didn't think of consequences and I couldn't/wouldn't resist!

 

And I had the party of my life!!! Imagine a 6 year old kid at his own Birthday party - jelly, cake, crisps, presents everywhere, all his friends and family adoringly present, lots of party games and a clown doing tricks. I was that boy - in a 40 year old body! It was fun, fun, fun - sex, champagne and laughter!

 

Until, of course, it all came crashing down, as they almost always do!

 

 

4. So how could I live a double life?

 

By denying, compartmentalising, self-justifying and down right pushing away the disturbing thoughts that would enter my head - any tactic to avoid facing what I was actually doing. I just kept telling myself it was fun, I deserved it, no one needs to know and not to worry about consequences! Anyway, this was making me happier for my family right? In a sense I was "working on my marriage" What a fool!

 

Anyway, please just take this post at face value. Particularly for MM of a certain age, I often think it is no more than this and you don't need to go digging for deeper reasons!

Edited March 29, 2017 by jenkins95

[WaitingForBardot]

The whole idea of marriage is beyond me. I don't see anything appealing in doing household chores, running out of conversation (except for tedious details of things like supermarket shopping) and watching TV on the couch day in, day out. Rinse and repeat.

 

I would rather travel the world and live the life of adventure. The only appealing thing is to have someone to look after me when I get old/sick (as bad as that sounds). I guess doing physical things and "manly jobs" is something but the trade off between me doing the emotional labor required to maintain the marriage and extra household chores, seems hardly worth it.

 

Your whole idea of marriage is beyond me, no wonder it doesn't appeal to you! You do realize of course that household chores and shopping are things that need to be done regardless of whether you're single, coupled, married, whatever.

 

And watching TV on the couch day in and day out doesn't appeal to me either, although I wouldn't presume to speak for everyone on that. And there are many men that want to live a life of adventure and have trouble finding partners that share that interest. These things are just a matter of choosing a partner wisely.

 

I am yet to meet a man that made my life easier.

I never assumed the goal of relationship was to make my life easier. Relationships, married or not, take energy. Some of us feel they're worth it, others do not.

[Popsicle]

Not all men cheat. Some men are VERY VERY happy to live in their married bubble.

 

Almost all married people live in a bubble and the cheaters are the ones who busted out of the bubble (because they felt something was missing) but some want to keep the bubble and some want completely out of the bubble. But I want to stress again that a lot of men are quite content to live in the bubble and do not/will not cheat or divorce.

[Sweetfish]

So then "in love" for men is based on sex and visuals?

 

This is what I don't get. Isn't love supposed to be more than that? Why can't you love us if we get fat? Or have dry spells ?

 

Im not saying I concur or agree. I'm saying how it is... I truly believe women do not know the nature of men and how sexuality comes into play... they think men just care about sex and thats not true; however, a man biology is design to get him to develop X amount of sperm and in X amount of days his body will and has to expell this sperm eventually and most (good) men would choose to do this with his women optimally.

 

If you as his S.O. has a dry spell or menopause etc... your in a slippery slope depending on the guy. The older he gets the more attractive he will look/be to other women as time progress... specially if you are married to some who is secure with him self, fiscally secure, or decent looking.

 

Example... I know a follow co-worker who is currently cheating on his wife. I explain the same exact theory above and he point blank told me yes that is why. His wife let her self go, she does not appericate the hard work and abuse he gets at work, and she denies him sex.

 

You would be surprised how many men I know... from all backgrounds and walks of life cheats or divorce simply because the wife doesn't treat his man like a king and "thinks" because of his age, looks, or weight women are not looking at him or attractted to him.. At the same token men stop treating their woman like a queens and that drives a widge between the relationship as well...

[jenkins95]

Not all men cheat. Some men are VERY VERY happy to live in their married bubble.

 

Almost all married people live in a bubble and the cheaters are the ones who busted out of the bubble (because they felt something was missing) but some want to keep the bubble and some want completely out of the bubble. But I want to stress again that a lot of men are quite content to live in the bubble and do not/will not cheat or divorce.

 

True!

 

And it's also possible that many don't cheat simply because the opportunity never presents itself and they don't go looking.

 

I never went looking for an affair and never put myself in places where an affair was likely to happen. If a certain "perfect storm" of circumstances had not happened at the exact moment that it did, maybe I would never have had one and I'd have gone to my grave applauded as a model husband who never even thought of cheating - and it would have been true!

 

If, instead of at approx year 20, this "opportunity" had presented itself at year 1, year 5, year 10, year 30, year 50, would I still have had the affair? We will never know!

 

One thing's for sure, I always considered myself a good, loyal husband who would never cheat. As you say -

VERY VERY happy to live in my married bubble - and yet there I was in a full blown affair, lying, cheating and cake-eating like a true professional!

Edited March 29, 2017 by jenkins95

[Arieswoman]

Sweetfish,

 

His wife let her self go, she does not appericate the hard work and abuse he gets at work, and she denies him sex.

 

This is time for a serious conversation with her. It is also grounds for divorce. It is not a reason to cheat.

 

I get a bit fed-up with these threads that develop into a monogamy-bashing exercise.

 

Here's a newsflash - monogamy is not compulsory for anyone.

 

If people don't want monogamy there are plenty of other lifestyles that can be entered into, open relationships etc.

 

And even if people enter into a monogamous relationship with the best will in the world, the time may come when they can't stick to that any more, they aren't happy for whatever reason. etc

 

Then they need to speak up and then either fix it or get out.

 

IMO honesty is the word here.

 

People can't help what they feel (or don't feel) but they have control about what comes out of their mouths.

 

The reason they don't speak up is because IMO they just want to cake-eat

[jenkins95]

a man biology is design to get him to develop X amount of sperm and in X amount of days his body will and has to expell this sperm eventually and most (good) men would choose to do this with his women optimally.

 

Yes, and a man who has absolutely no morals and/or decent values or societal pressures and/or an extreme sense of entitlement will choose to do this with as many women as possible.

 

We have real world evidence of this. Read about the Kings and Emperors from the past. Did they have mistresses? You bet they did - sometimes harems of them! Did Henry VIII stay faithful to his wife? Oh, hang on - he had six wives didn't he? And he wasn't faithful to any of them!

 

These special cases could do what they liked. If anyone didn't like it, they would end up with their head quite literally on a chopping block. What did they do with that freedom? Had a lot of sex!

 

Luckily most men are good men. Even men like me who do such a selfish thing will usually bitterly regret it afterwards and try to fix it (I certainly am). But here is a sense in which a man having an affair is simply an individual who is choosing to let his biology at an animalistic level override his moral and societal values.

Edited March 29, 2017 by jenkins95

[Sweetfish]

Sweetfish,

 

 

 

This is time for a serious conversation with her. It is also grounds for divorce. It is not a reason to cheat.

 

I get a bit fed-up with these threads that develop into a monogamy-bashing exercise.

 

Here's a newsflash - monogamy is not compulsory for anyone.

 

If people don't want monogamy there are plenty of other lifestyles that can be entered into, open relationships etc.

 

And even if people enter into a monogamous relationship with the best will in the world, the time may come when they can't stick to that any more, they aren't happy for whatever reason. etc

 

Then they need to speak up and then either fix it or get out.

 

IMO honesty is the word here.

 

People can't help what they feel (or don't feel) but they have control about what comes out of their mouths.

 

The reason they don't speak up is because IMO they just want to cake-eat

 

 

I totally agree he should talk to her.... however he knows if a divorce happens... child support and he wants to keep the family together as well and have the perks of a wife. So the easiest resolve for most men that I personally seen is cheat. If your not giving him sex... he will find others ways.

 

But I think your wrong with eatting your cake...

 

Letting your self go means you feel comfortable in the relationship and do not want to maintain the relationship anymore... if the husband quit providing or stop working are you saying that love will keep you together..?

Edited March 29, 2017 by Sweetfish

[WaitingForBardot]

Not all men cheat. Some men are VERY VERY happy to live in their married bubble.

 

Almost all married people live in a bubble and the cheaters are the ones who busted out of the bubble (because they felt something was missing) but some want to keep the bubble and some want completely out of the bubble. But I want to stress again that a lot of men are quite content to live in the bubble and do not/will not cheat or divorce.

Maybe not what you intended, but they way you describe being married as living in a bubble and cheaters as busting out of a bubble, make marriage sound like a restriction or a constraint of some sort. I do not stray in my relationships, but it is by choice, not because I feel constrained within some bubble.

 

BTW, not taking any of this personally, I just find your choice of words..., interesting...

[Simple Logic]

Just from reading here and other places online, I hear the same story Over and over and over again.

 

I'm going to take it from the male side because that's the majority I see, but can go either way.

 

You marry a girl, have a few kids,life happens then:

 

"I love you but I'm not in love with you".

 

Sometimes an affair happens or sometimes it's divorce.

 

Do you just get bored with us? Does us becoming mothers turn you off sexually? Do the years of raising children and weariness and less attention on you make you fall out of love? Is the relationship not fun anymore when we have to share bills and "adult"??

 

Why all of a sudden (or gradually) do we "have nothing in common" Or "no connection" etc

 

Why do you spend years of your lives with us..decades even then just decide to move on? Just decide you don't want to spend forever with us? Decide you connect better with some chick from accounting instead?

 

Why is it so difficult to have longevity in marriage?

 

From a man who never wanted or had children, I am shocked that many marriages last as long as they do.

[Popsicle]

Maybe not what you intended, but they way you describe being married as living in a bubble and cheaters as busting out of a bubble, make marriage sound like a restriction or a constraint of some sort. I do not stray in my relationships, but it is by choice, not because I feel constrained within some bubble.

 

BTW, not taking any of this personally, I just find your choice of words..., interesting...

 

No it is not constricting. It is by choice and they want to be there.

[cocorico]

And even if people enter into a monogamous relationship with the best will in the world, the time may come when they can't stick to that any more, they aren't happy for whatever reason. etc

 

Then they need to speak up and then either fix it or get out.

 

Fair enough. So the unhappy partner speaks up. The happy partner denies, minimises, brushes off. Paraphrasing: "I'm happy, so all's good. If anything was wrong, I'd also be unhappy, but I'm not, so nothing's wrong."

 

Unhappy partner goes back, tries harder, invests more. Nothing changes. Speaks up again. Gets told, "if you're unhappy, the problem is with you, because I'm happy." Unhappy partner works on self. Develops new ways of communicating, learns new relationship skills, becomes perfect partner. Happy partner takes this as a sign s/he was right all along, sees no reason to change. Nothing changes.

 

Unhappy partner speaks up again. This time mentions the D word - if nothing changes, will feel obliged to leave M. Happy partner goes ballistic, accuses unhappy partner of sabotaging M, goes into full attack mode, threatens unhappy partner with all manner of dire consequences should s/he seriously contemplate leaving, including the nuclear option - "You'll lose access to the kids". This may be an empty threat; or, it may be part of a long trajectory of piecemeal parental alienation; circumstances differ between couples. But Tx enough to frighten unhappy partner.

 

Unhappy partner withdraws, spends more time at work / doing hobbies / online (activities happy partner has no interest in, and encouraged unhappy partner to spend more time on during earlier iteration of "the problem is with you"). At work / hobby / online, unhappy partner meets someone new, who listens, engages, makes life fun again. Little by little, unhappy partner falls for new person.

 

One day - it's an A.

 

Later, BS denies that unhappy partner ever mentioned being unhappy. "Yes, we had our ups and downs, but so does every couple." Unhappy partner gives their side of the story and is accused of rewriting history.

 

You see it all the time.

[aileD]

That might be what happened in your case cocorio, but it's not everyone.

 

This isn't even really about cheating per say, although it happens a lot.

 

Why doesn't love last? Why do things like money and looks cause you to fall out of love? How can you look with such hatred and distsin at the person you once loved so much you got down on one knee and asked to spend forever with? What if I got disabled or disfigured ? Does that allow the withdrawal of love and affection?

 

Why does it all change? Are we all just too selfish? We value fun times and money and freedom over care and love and committment?

 

It's just very sad and I don't even feel like I was meant to live in this day and age because that's not how I feel at all about love or marriage. My husband has been wicked fat, wicked skinny, long hair, short hair and he has lumpy lipomas all over his body that weren't there when we started dating and he's going bald and not accepting it and I don't see him as a physical thing. I see his heart.

 

Why do older couples come from generations of people who stay together for life? Who have problems but make it work? "In my generation when something was broken, you fixed it instead of finding a new one". Why doesn't that apply now?

 

We live in a world of instant gratification and selfishness. I hate it. It shows in the threads here too.

 

So many people say "then we had kids and it all went downhill" What did you think would happen when you had kids? Did you think you'd get all the attention all the time still? You don't like to share? Selfish. Then you spend years trying to get out so you can be free again. Sure you'll se the kids part time but now you're FREE! You have nights without them! You can feel alive again! Meanwhile the person you promised to love forever and started the family with and your children are afterthoughts.

 

I hate the selfish nature of today's men (and women) who don't respect the family they created. It's sad. It's like the first wives are breeders for you and that's it, suddenly they're not good enough. They're good enough to have your children and clean your house but not good enough to keep desire for. Those second wives are where all the fun is at. Don't have to deal with raising the kids and they'll shower you with all the attention you need.

 

I see this all the time. It's sad (rant over)

[Timshel]

RESPECT.....imo, once lost...all done.

[RecentChange]

The whole idea of marriage is beyond me. I don't see anything appealing in doing household chores, running out of conversation (except for tedious details of things like supermarket shopping) and watching TV on the couch day in, day out. Rinse and repeat.

 

I would rather travel the world and live the life of adventure. The only appealing thing is to have someone to look after me when I get old/sick (as bad as that sounds). I guess doing physical things and "manly jobs" is something but the trade off between me doing the emotional labor required to maintain the marriage and extra household chores, seems hardly worth it.

 

I am yet to meet a man that made my life easier.

 

Who told you that this is what marriage is, or should be?

 

My dad and step mom have been married for about 25 years now. They don't have a TV. Every summer they travel for 2 months. Perhaps they are off to the the Spanish countryside or road tripping to Alaska.

 

They talk about politics, the sciences, spiritually, music, their hobbies (equestrian and car racing - as participatnts not observers!).

 

If you live in a house, there will always be household chores, but if there are two of you, the work is halved.

 

My husband and myself have been together for 15 years and in many ways our life looks like our parents. We don't watch TV. We go out on the town twice a week (last night was tiki Tuesday). We have traveled to many countries together (his work called for travel, and I was able to tag along). We go on mini vacations about once a month. Pooling our funds allows us to enjoy more freedom than either of us would have as individuals.

 

As for the OPs question. There is no one fits all answer. People grow. People change. Relationships change. The reasons are too many to list.

 

I will say there was a point when I heard "I love you but I don't know if I am in love with you". It was when my husband was suffering through an especially nasty bout of depression following the tragic death of his father. Depression can have a way of making someone not feel anything deeply.

 

Counseling, time, and understanding changed everything.

[jenkins95]

That's a good, heartfelt post aileD and i will think a lot about it. I think general increased acceptance in society of affairs and encouraging an exciting "you only live once" attitude has a lot to answer for. My grandfather walked out on my grandmother in the 60s when my mum was about 5. It was a scandal in the local community and he was shunned. This doesn't happen so much today in western society. A story broke in my local village the other week of a woman who had done a similar thing. There was a bit of gossip and "Did you hear about X and V?" Stories floating around for a while, but it's old news now and no one seems to particularly care. We even saw the sunshine in question in a cafe having a cafe with another man (presumably the OM) the other Saturday. She wasn't hanging her head in shame. She was joking and laughing as if all was well in the world.

 

It's like the first wives are breeders for you and that's it, suddenly they're not good enough. They're good enough to have your children and clean your house but not good enough to keep desire for. Those second wives are where all the fun is at. Don't have to deal with raising the kids and they'll shower you with all the attention you need.

 

I see this all the time. It's sad (rant over)

 

But don't forget, aileD, serving last second marriages fail even more then first marriages. People often find they've just traded in one set of problems for another when the dust settle and many regret not trying harder in their first marriages.