Age old story- why?

[jenkins95]

Honestly, I think a lot of it is society.

We are constantly bombarded with messages though mass media that we deserve to put ourselves first, that instant gratification is the goal, and that loyalty, kindness, etc. are somehow less important than fleeting things like appearance.

 

We are told that over time, a marriage becoming stale is almost inevitable.

 

Too many also believe the myth that if you are not head over heels in limernace, you don't really love the person. We can fail to see our spouses as also being our friend...who would hurt their friend the way cheating can?

 

Also, quite frankly, we, a a society, have become quite lazy, and are willing to excuse some forms of causing pain to others.

 

 

it's quite sad. My mom and dad were married just short of 50 years, ad right up until the end, and even today, he still loves her. Their marriage had the usual ups and downs, but for them, divorce was an absolute last resort, not to be turned to unless everything else had failed.

 

THIS! Very good post wmac. You've hit the nail on the head here!

[wmacbride]

Quite honestly, I think people just grow fed up of each other even if they love each other. If there are major conflicts that are not resolved, then other areas of the relationship deteriorate. While a couple who manage to resolve their conflicts and reaffirm their love for each other might survive (if they both maintain something of a physical relationship too), the chances of a relationship lasting with unresolved conflict is much lower.

 

I know couples who still adore each other after many years (practically a lifetime together) but they are fairly rare. Many couples seem to be muddling along together and perhaps staying together through familiarity and shared comforts rather than magic and romance. Others suffer from infidelity but stay together despite it. It might be my age group but I know people who are on their second or third marriage or quasi-marriage; they take their relationship seriously and only moved on because their previous relationships broke down after a long time together. People don't tend to stay with each other for life these days. There are many variations on marriage and those who remain happy and in love are extremely lucky.

 

I'm still on my first marriage, and it's certainly not all sunshine and roses, racing heartbeats or romance.

 

in fact. much of our time together is taken up in the minutiae of everyday life. he gets up before I do, then I get up get our kids ready, make lunches, brush my son's teeth and make sure he's ready to go. Once they are gone, I do housework, work at my job and work at the small business we are starting together. Our kids come home, and I help m son with his therapy, make supper, my husband comes home and we eat, I finish up my work and we do some "play therapy" with our son and two daughters. There's probably been some sort of medical appointment that day for one of them, and I help my "middle kid" with her treatments and make sure my oldest isn't too stressed out from college.

 

They go to bed, and we finally have some time alone, but my husband is often asleep because he was up at five and he's rally tired. For us, romance is sometimes nothing more than laughing and joking around while we clan up or cuddle up at night. If we're both not too tired, we might listen to our records ( my husband loves his vinyl) and then go to bed.

 

I bet that sounds incredibly boring to some, and maybe it is, but we are both happy. We take our yearly vacation somewhere interesting, but the rest of the time, we have our routine.

[wmacbride]

Just based on my own experiences/observations, if a family has additional pressures such as financial difficulties, a child who is ill or ha special needs, an ill spouse or a spouse who develops a physical challenge, etc. there is a higher chance of cheating/divorce.

 

I'm not sure why that is. T ( my husband) and i have been to a support group for families of special needs children, and we were the only ones who weren't divorced. In some cases, mom or dad felt neglected and cheated, some found the stress too difficult, some marriages couldn't handle the extra pressure, some parents couldn't handle the guilt they felt abut their child etc., so they left.

 

The people left behind were all effectively single moms and one single dad who's wife had left him after their son was born with downs syndrome.

 

I wonder how much " i love you but I am not in love with you" in this situation really means " I love you, but I am feeling overwhelmed, lonely, in need of support" etc or even " I love you, but I just can't do this"

[jenkins95]

Just based on my own experiences/observations, if a family has additional pressures such as financial difficulties, a child who is ill or ha special needs, an ill spouse or a spouse who develops a physical challenge, etc. there is a higher chance of cheating/divorce.

 

This is a really interesting point. I have a child with special needs (and other children). He is a delight, but living with special needs is very, very draining and all consuming and introduces additional stresses on top of the usual ones. In my case, the A was definitely a form of escapism into a fun fantasy world (see my post earlier in the thread) as relief from the reality we were actually living.

 

Worst, most selfish, stupid mistake of my life. It solved nothing, stole time and finances from my family, broke hearts and has tainted my marriage and my wife's previously very good image of me. My wife had exactly the same challanges (more really because she doesn't have an office to escape to like me), but she didn't choose to escape into an affair for some relief.

 

To finish on a positive note, we are recovering well now, and boy have I learned from this. Oh, and my son with special needs recently won a design competiton!

Edited March 30, 2017 by jenkins95

[wmacbride]

This is a really interesting point. I have a child with special needs (and other children). He is a delight, but living with special needs is very, very draining and all consuming and introduces additional stresses on top of the usual ones. In my case, the A was definitely a form of escapism into a fun fantasy world (see my post earlier in the thread) as relief from the reality we were actually living.

 

Worst, most selfish, stupid mistake of my life. It solved nothing, stole time and finances from my family, broke hearts and has tainted my marriage and my wife's previously very good image of me. My wife had exactly the same challanges (more really because she doesn't have an office to escape to like me), but she didn't choose to escape into an affair for some relief.

 

To finish on a positive note, we are recovering well now, and boy have I learned from this. Oh, and my son with special needs recently won a design competiton!

 

That's awesome for him, and likely was a huge boost to his confidence.

 

Kind of off topic, but it drives me nuts when I hear about what special needs kids can't do. Better to focus on what they can.

 

I am always amazed by my kids and what they can accomplish...

 

back to the topic at hand...

 

I also believe a huge part of why some marriages end is alack of patience...

[jenkins95]

That's awesome for him, and likely was a huge boost to his confidence.

 

Kind of off topic, but it drives me nuts when I hear about what special needs kids can't do. Better to focus on what they can.

 

I am always amazed

 

Thanks wmac and i agree. There are various things that my boy struggles with and likely will always struggle with, but there are lots of things he's exceptionally good at. And just like you, i prefer to concentrate on the latter.

 

back to the topic at hand...

 

I also believe a huge part of why some marriages end is alack of patience...

 

Again, another good shout. I agree wholeheartedly.

[Sweetfish]

Honestly, I think a lot of it is society.

We are constantly bombarded with messages though mass media that we deserve to put ourselves first, that instant gratification is the goal, and that loyalty, kindness, etc. are somehow less important than fleeting things like appearance.

 

 

I 1000% agree with you and I believe Millennials are in an era of instant gratification. I'm very disappointed with pretty much every movement today because every special movement agenda is not about equality among individuals... but that's a different show.

 

I could be way off, as I am not a man, but that sounds really shallow. Isn't that kind of selling men short?

 

No, I'm not selling men short. Now...I am not a spoke person for men..I am a nobody , but from the many men who I personally know or meet who cheat from many places all over the world and I've been to various countries and states, I'm letting you known what I have seen, heard, and encountered and you can take it as insight with a grain of salt or you can take the information and throw it into the garbage-can thinking that most men are unique in his own way... biology tends to differ.

 

If you as a wife (lets say your 45) and your sex drive is not as vibrant as it use to be or its gone. "I'm tired" "I feel fat" "my back hurts" and you do this...for months or years.. you are are going to driving a wedge in your relationship with your man because he may still have a sex drive equal to a 35 year old and sometimes even a 25 year old. This rejection of sex can lead to a disconnection and I've seen many women reject sex from their husband or boyfriends using it as a (weapon or tool) not even knowing so.

 

You say this is shallow...but if your husband rejected sex from you, would you not feel rejected or disconnected from him or hurt maybe? But when menopause kicks in or if your a mother now the rules of engagement suddenly change ...(not all I have to add) seems many people are so focus on their own feelings and safety that they forget about the S.O. feelings with perspective.

 

Think of the logic.. At the very beginning of the relationship you can say the most respectable women will guard her sexuality and become intimate with only someone special. Now that your a mother, wife, ete etc .. your sexual drive is gone and you don't care for sex anymore....Ever wonder how men now see this...I'm just really curious to know? Once you stop having this sexual chemistry with your husband(wife).

 

You are killing the relationship slowly.... they will ultimately get there needs somewhere else.

 

and to think a certificate, kids, or X years together you can simply downsize or neglect your S.O needs and not be concern that someone younger, hotter, nicer, or more caring will slip under the radar...is

complacency and its both the man and women to not fall into complacency.

[somanymistakes]

Sweetfish, I'm having trouble understanding your point.

 

If two people no longer want the same things, if their desires are different (for instance, one partner absolutely does not want or enjoy sex and the other wants it very much) are you arguing that it is wrong for them to divorce in search of personal gratification, or not?

 

Also, when you're talking about 45yos, I'm not sure where "millenials" have anything to do with it.

[Birdies]

Just from reading here and other places online, I hear the same story Over and over and over again.

 

I'm going to take it from the male side because that's the majority I see, but can go either way.

 

You marry a girl, have a few kids,life happens then:

 

"I love you but I'm not in love with you".

 

Sometimes an affair happens or sometimes it's divorce.

 

Do you just get bored with us? Does us becoming mothers turn you off sexually? Do the years of raising children and weariness and less attention on you make you fall out of love? Is the relationship not fun anymore when we have to share bills and "adult"??

 

Why all of a sudden (or gradually) do we "have nothing in common" Or "no connection" etc

 

Why do you spend years of your lives with us..decades even then just decide to move on? Just decide you don't want to spend forever with us? Decide you connect better with some chick from accounting instead?

 

Why is it so difficult to have longevity in marriage?

 

I read a relationship book that explained how a marriage can be viewed via the idea of a "love bank" - that when you do things that make your spouse feel loved, appreciated, etc, you are contributing to the bank. When you do things that cause resentment or conflict, and especially things do not change or are not acknowledged over a long period of time, you're making a withdrawal from the bank. In the early stages of a relationship, everyone is on their best behavior and the sparks are flying, so the balance is heavily on the deposit side. But as resentments and difficulties build up, while you stop showing each other love and appreciation, the bank account balance often dips into the negative, and it's hard to recover that. Over time, a negative love bank balance starts to eat away at that "in love" feeling.

 

I could really relate to that analogy. I loved, and still love, my ex, but I also felt neglected and resentful and defeated about our future happiness together - and those feelings caused me to fall out of love.

 

Not saying this is how it *should* be - just a perspective from someone who's been there done that.

[Sweetfish]

Sorry, but I don't agree with this excuse.

 

If I take what you are saying correctly ( and maybe I am not, and if I am wrong, please accept my apology for misunderstanding what you meant).

 

This goes back to the concept of somehow men's work is harder and more valuable than a woman.

 

I just wanted to highlight this...

I do want to be clear...there is no such thing as Mans Work. Work is work.

 

Women are free to work on the front lines, the blue collar jobs, the High end jobs... but MOST often they choose NOT TO and don't want to.

 

Because it is hard work, dirty, cold, requires reading lots of boring stuff. I know female business owners, judges, female pilots, stock traders, computer designers. However, this is dominated by men..because men in general are interested in these things on a greater scale than women.

 

The job you do is unique and valuable to the job at hand...being a mother and wife is a big job and uniquely valuable ... but in that statement you forget that the husband is a father as well and too plays a key role.. You cannot equally across the board compare a construction worker job to house work and expect this construction worker to have the drive to do half the chores because you feel taking care of 4 children is equal to 8-10 of heavy labor ... that is absurd. However, it is understandable to hear these assessments as (3rd wave) has promoted empowerment and a far cry from (1st wave) which was valuable

 

So the man's a slave because he works, but if the wife is working too, or if she is looking after a houseful of kids all day plus all of the housework, isn't she working as hard for him?

 

You seem to missing out on the key point... good men love to provide for their love ones...The more they can provide, the more they feel accepted by the wife and family. That is why most men don't even care if women make 5 figures or 6 figures.

 

If the husband doesn't feel like a provider anymore and just a (work horse) he will feel he is not valuable anymore.. hence the suicide rate for men is MUCH higher. If another female sees him as a provider he may seek validation from her.

 

This was not a battle of whose work is more valuable.. both the wife and husband, regardless of the work is vital in the relationship.

[Sweetfish]

Sweetfish, I'm having trouble understanding your point.

 

If two people no longer want the same things, if their desires are different (for instance, one partner absolutely does not want or enjoy sex and the other wants it very much) are you arguing that it is wrong for them to divorce in search of personal gratification, or not?

 

Its up to the party to decide if they want to divorce... My point is a man's sex drive can possibly out-run a woman's sex drive and its not shallow if the wife does not compromise with his needs as you would expect he would compromise with her needs. This is not about "picking-up" after a man so her sex drive shuts down..give me a break, this is her sex drive has diminished and now the husband is on a reward system now... if even that. Some other women don't feel comfortable with their bodies as well.. another reason why men cheat. I've seen this over and over and over again..

 

So many men will opt to cheat than divorce.

 

Also, when you're talking about 45yos, I'm not sure where "millenials" have anything to do with it.

No..but your in a millennial world now riddle with social media, fast moving trends, and networking. I mean 50 years olds use the internet right?

[Chilli]

It is true , a mans sex drive does often rejuvenate over and over , well mine sure does.Can get onto new interests to and it all just takes off again and again.

The providing thing though , well for me anyways it's not so much about feeling needed or whatever although men and women love to feel needed and loved of course. That's always nice no matter who you are.

But l see in a lot of men and went through it myself in my marriage , it can often be much more about just what are you getting these days.

So often you see wifes and mine got like this too , just all about family and life and the kids and letting herself go and for a lot of guys it's like you turn around after 20yrs of it and this is what u got.

Things like this were a huge thing for me in the later part of my marriage and l was asking myself in the last few yrs of it , just what was the point.

[PhillyLibertyBelle]

Im not saying I concur or agree. I'm saying how it is... I truly believe women do not know the nature of men and how sexuality comes into play... they think men just care about sex and thats not true; however, a man biology is design to get him to develop X amount of sperm and in X amount of days his body will and has to expell this sperm eventually and most (good) men would choose to do this with his women optimally.

 

If you as his S.O. has a dry spell or menopause etc... your in a slippery slope depending on the guy. The older he gets the more attractive he will look/be to other women as time progress... specially if you are married to some who is secure with him self, fiscally secure, or decent looking.

 

 

You would be surprised how many men I know... from all backgrounds and walks of life cheats or divorce simply because the wife doesn't treat his man like a king and "thinks" because of his age, looks, or weight women are not looking at him or attractted to him.. At the same token men stop treating their woman like a queens and that drives a widge between the relationship as well...

 

A woman who goes through menopause is on a slippery slope? Are you under the impression any woman who lives to an age past anywhere from around 40 to 55 years old has any choice about menopause? Menopause doesn't mean that you can't or stop having sex. It could mean you need a little more help to make it great, just like an older man could need some extra help. If a man gets a prostrate issue is he on a slippery slope? Unbelievable!

 

Men also "let themselves go, and gravity takes a toll on certain parts of male anatomy that isn't exactly a lovely thing to look at.

 

Both men and women let themselves go!

 

OP: I think both men and women do the "I'm not in love with you " thing

 

It means that one or both people weren't putting the effort in to keep love alive and to grow together. Lasting love is like a flower. It blooms often unexpectedly in the most delightful and surprising way often at a time you don't suspect. To keep the flower alive it needs tending, nurturing and attending. If you let it go a little it will droop but usually can be revived and blossom again.

 

When one of the spouses stamps all over the flower, grinding it into the dirt with cheating and damages it, the non cheating spouse can try to revive it but it is often dead or just an empty stem that remains.

 

As for weight: weight can be lost. It's not permanent. If I was married and my spouse was getting heavy I'd make it an objective for us both to be healthier. You marry a person not the number on a scale.

[Sweetfish]

A woman who goes through menopause is on a slippery slope? Are you under the impression any woman who lives to an age past anywhere from around 40 to 55 years old has any choice about menopause? Menopause doesn't mean that you can't or stop having sex. It could mean you need a little more help to make it great, just like an older man could need some extra help.

 

Yes..yes... and yes.

 

It's the mentality that man and woman are equal (ah yes the 3rd wave) that many people try to compare apples to oranges and try to make them equal. Unfortunately, menopause is not a choice, but its easy to become complacent and/or gain weight.

 

Let's be honest, if the S.O. sex drive is gone.. How much sex(intimacy) is the other getting a month or a year? The sexual chemistry is gone now. Maybe your with a man whose libido has drop as well..so it works out or it doesn't

 

Now your trying to place men in the same line-up as women. If a man has prostate issues he can equally be in the same slippery slope. But I'm talking about women not men. Do you want to talk about the things men do that put them in the dog house that's fine. I'm letting you know why men cheat who have been in long term relationship with their S.O. and you think because a man has aged that he is on equal terms as a woman.

 

Men also "let themselves go, and gravity takes a toll on certain parts of male anatomy that isn't exactly a lovely thing to look at

 

Again apples to oranges. Saggy balls and sex drive are two different things.

Most of cosmetics and cosmetic surgery is consumed and purchased by woman and not men. So why do you think a mans look are so important? If it was, men would be consuming cosmetics and getting tummy tucks more often.. I've never seen Ads for eye shadow or foundation in a men's magazine or during a basketball game.

 

Your trying to equalize things that cannot be equal in sense of nature and biology .... maybe sex possibly becomes like a chore instead of mutual benefit or an obligation. So now the poor guy is beating his meat till kingdom come.

 

Again if a man denies a women sex.. after she has gotten all nice and sexy for him and he rejects her? How does she feels? Good or bad? So what makes you think that when a woman is on menopause and she doesn't just feel likes it.... that the constant rejection of sex does not drive the relationship apart... that he will quit eventually trying and slowly he will seek his needs somehow or somewhere..

 

Like I said... you can take the information and toss it in the garbage or think I'm absurd or whatever... I've seen the perfect guys "dad's of the year" cheat. I've seen a whole organization (equal to the Ronald McDonald foundation) purchase two floors of a certain hotel chain that can exclusively be accessed by those members only via elevator.. an organization that helps kids with leukemia and cancer. Hire women and every single one of them forget their wives and girlfriends.

[PhillyLibertyBelle]

Yes..yes... and yes.

 

It's the mentality that man and woman are equal (ah yes the 3rd wave) that many people try to compare apples to oranges and try to make them equal. Unfortunately, menopause is not a choice, but its easy to become complacent and/or gain weight.

 

Let's be honest, if the S.O. sex drive is gone.. How much sex(intimacy) is the other getting a month or a year? The sexual chemistry is gone now. Maybe your with a man whose libido has drop as well..so it works out or it doesn't

 

Now your trying to place men in the same line-up as women. If a man has prostate issues he can equally be in the same slippery slope. But I'm talking about women not men. Do you want to talk about the things men do that put them in the dog house that's fine. I'm letting you know why men cheat who have been in long term relationship with their S.O. and you think because a man has aged that he is on equal terms as a woman.

 

 

 

Again apples to oranges. Saggy balls and sex drive are two different things.

Most of cosmetics and cosmetic surgery is consumed and purchased by woman and not men. So why do you think a mans look are so important? If it was, men would be consuming cosmetics and getting tummy tucks more often.. I've never seen Ads for eye shadow or foundation in a men's magazine or during a basketball game.

 

Your trying to equalize things that cannot be equal in sense of nature and biology .... maybe sex possibly becomes like a chore instead of mutual benefit or an obligation. So now the poor guy is beating his meat till kingdom come.

 

Again if a man denies a women sex.. after she has gotten all nice and sexy for him and he rejects her? How does she feels? Good or bad? So what makes you think that when a woman is on menopause and she doesn't just feel likes it.... that the constant rejection of sex does not drive the relationship apart... that he will quit eventually trying and slowly he will seek his needs somehow or somewhere..

 

Like I said... you can take the information and toss it in the garbage or think I'm absurd or whatever... I've seen the perfect guys "dad's of the year" cheat. I've seen a whole organization (equal to the Ronald McDonald foundation) purchase two floors of a certain hotel chain that can exclusively be accessed by those members only via elevator.. an organization that helps kids with leukemia and cancer. Hire women and every single one of them forget their wives and girlfriends.

 

Somehow you have mixed up physical attractiveness with moral bankruptcy.

 

Interestingly on the infidelity forum there is the exact opposite view/ Other Women (Mistresses) are no more attractive than the wives.

[aileD]

People don't cheat because of menopause

 

People don't cheat because of weight gain

 

People don't cheat because of diminished sex.

 

People who do cheat do so because they don't have the morals or integrity and/or are too selfish to end their marriage before starting another sexual relationship.

 

Period.

[somanymistakes]

People don't cheat because of menopause

 

People don't cheat because of weight gain

 

People don't cheat because of diminished sex.

 

People who do cheat do so because they don't have the morals or integrity and/or are too selfish to end their marriage before starting another sexual relationship.

 

Period.

 

quoted for truth

 

no matter how starved for sex someone is, they are not forced to cheat. there are more mature ways of handling it.

 

Everyone in our culture knows that if they are married they are supposed to be sexually faithful (unless they made other arrangements with their spouse). There's no confusing fuzzy line when it comes to sleeping with someone else.

 

An emotional affair, a kiss, these things you can argue may happen by accident or one spouse may not realise that the other considers them to be infidelity. But there's no "oops, I accidentally had sex".

 

... Unless you were blackout drunk I guess but in that case there's a whole different set of marriage issues that need dealing with.