Hanging by a thread that probably should be snipped [UPDATE: ex emails drunk]

[1fish2fish]

I'm sitting here crying my eyes out as I type. My thoughts are too jumbled right now to be coherent in print.

 

We are both in our mid to late 40's - I'm 3 yrs. older. We've been exclusively dating since late September.

 

I've been reading everyone's posts here since late last year and have been taking notes. I've concluded that we have no emotional intimacy, based on our lack of conflict resolution, and he may be conflict avoidant? It feels like when I bring something up, he turns it around to make it be my fault.

 

For instance: We were camping and had a guest join us around the fire pit. We were chatting and I misheard something the guest had said, so I asked for clarification. He explained what he meant and I laughed and said, "Oh, okay. That makes sense. I thought you meant..." and it was very light and fun. BF turned to me and snapped, "Why do you gotta read so much into everything?"

 

I was shocked into silence and didn't say a word until after the guest left. The bf then noticed a tear run down my face and asked what was wrong with me. I calmly said that my feelings were hurt and I felt embarrassed when he said that in front of our guest. That set off a barrage of accusations that I was too sensitive and that I ruined the weekend, etc. etc. For the record, he had been drinking heavily that evening.

 

That's another thing. I think he may an alcoholic. And I grew up with violent and abusive alcoholic parents.

 

I've always had fairly healthy relationships in the past and most of them never drank at all, so this is worrisome to me.

 

I did break up with him the next morning, but we "made up" a week later. There hasn't been another episode to that degree since, however, there have been several on a smaller scale. It's the same pattern. I try and gently tell him that when he says X, it makes me feel belittled. But it gets turned around and he gets very defensive and the issue is never addressed. It's always "I wasn't expecting this today!" or "I tried to say it in the softest tone possible. What more do you want?"

 

and then I cry, which makes it worse. To him.

 

I'm tired of crying.

 

I know I'm extremely sensitive and I have a big heart. He has gotten so much better in so many areas, but at what cost to me?

 

I've also been in and out of therapy for over 25 years, and am currently seeing a therapist but I think I need a new one.

 

My ex, with whom I'm still good friends, says that the bf is an addict and that I'm co-dependent. I think he's right.

 

So - I drew a line. I'm not going to let anyone I'm dating make me cry again. Last night I stopped over at the bf's place and we had another evening of not being able to communicate and he got frustrated - again - with me - because it's always my fault - and I got up and left because I started to cry. I had just had it at that point. I don't even remember what had been said. But I do remember him throwing up his hands in exasperation.

 

We were supposed to pick up a bike this morning, but the thought of being stuck in a truck with him for 6 hrs with tense/forced conversation was just too much and I texted him last night and said I wouldn't be joining him. I haven't heard from him since and I know I won't. I'm so tired of always being the one to reach out first.

 

Of course he has wonderful qualities, but I wonder if they're mostly superficial.

 

We have zero emotional intimacy and he has no conflict resolution skills...other than alcohol. I'm very, very sad because I really wanted things to work with us. Maybe too much. I think I somehow forced things to work as long as they have. Sometimes love just isn't enough.

 

I feel like I'm turning myself into a pretzel to not antagonize him in order to make him happy. Ugh. This isn't me or how I want to be.

 

Anyway, thanks for reading.

[oldbutcurious]

So - I drew a line. I'm not going to let anyone I'm dating make me cry again.. .

 

This reminds me of y situation, too.

 

I have not gotten back to the H since and I am happy, in control, and content.

[teddyzain]

From what you describe it's not merely his fault. You admit you are very sensitive and it appears he is not emotional. It just means he does not want to express his feelings like you do. And if you cry easily he just wonders why you would cry about so and so when he is thinking its nothing.

 

I think you not only need to tell him you are emotional on the outside, as you have, but when you cry you actually feel the emotional pain you are expressing. He may think you are just doing it for attention, like a young girl, but as an overly emotional person you genuinely feel the emotions your crying represents, even if its over something small.

 

So even if he thinks you shouldn't be crying about so and so he needs to know you can't help it and it really hurts. He probably doesn't get the connect.

[preraph]

You can't stay with him. He likes to find a way to belittle you, and in front of others. He probably is an alcoholic. He wants to belittle you in order to make himself feel big. That's abusive. You do not need that.

 

You don't need this. When you break up, go no contact so he can't come around begging trying to change your mind because he'll just keep doing the same thing.

[1fish2fish]

From what you describe it's not merely his fault. You admit you are very sensitive and it appears he is not emotional. It just means he does not want to express his feelings like you do. And if you cry easily he just wonders why you would cry about so and so when he is thinking its nothing.

 

I think you not only need to tell him you are emotional on the outside, as you have, but when you cry you actually feel the emotional pain you are expressing. He may think you are just doing it for attention, like a young girl, but as an overly emotional person you genuinely feel the emotions your crying represents, even if its over something small.

 

So even if he thinks you shouldn't be crying about so and so he needs to know you can't help it and it really hurts. He probably doesn't get the connect.

 

I totally agree with this, and I don't want to make it to sound like it's all his fault. but since I'm the one here on LS whose insides are in knots...

 

What's weird is that in my 10 yrs with my ex, he cried more than I did, and even that was rare. He was also a very kind hearted, sensitive man.

 

You are absolutely right about feeling the emotional pain. The curse of being an empath.

 

I do think that part of our r'ship is simply a compatibility issue. IF we do get a chance to talk again, I will follow your suggestion. Thank you.

[1fish2fish]

You can't stay with him. He likes to find a way to belittle you, and in front of others. He probably is an alcoholic. He wants to belittle you in order to make himself feel big. That's abusive. You do not need that.

 

You don't need this. When you break up, go no contact so he can't come around begging trying to change your mind because he'll just keep doing the same thing.

 

I love you for saying this.

 

The good part about going NC is that I know he will never, ever come around again. He prides himself that he's never done that before and never will. I think it's an ego thing.

 

He's also very insecure, which surprised me, because I think he's very attractive.

 

Thank you for your support.

[1fish2fish]

I've been reading and following Newheart's story along with her "A Place to Write" thread, and there is a lot in there that resonated with me.

 

Her story was what enabled me (no pun intended) to slowly begin detaching from my bf.

Edited April 1, 2017 by 1fish2fish
Adding info

[preraph]

I love you for saying this.

 

The good part about going NC is that I know he will never, ever come around again. He prides himself that he's never done that before and never will. I think it's an ego thing.

 

He's also very insecure, which surprised me, because I think he's very attractive.

 

Thank you for your support.

 

Oh, that's good! The ones with low self-worth are who will tear down other people. (Not all people with low self-worth certainly) Some people call it "leveling." The get a temporary lift from bringing someone down and feeling superior to them, but it doesn't last, which is why they NEVER stop and it becomes a cycle.

[spiderowl]

I am sorry you are going through this. I think you've done the right thing. You were obviously walking on eggshells trying not to upset him and he was being abusive in his attitude towards you. He should not belittle you and you did the right thing by calling him out on this. I think you just dumped a guy who wasn't good for you. I know it hurts to lose a relationship but you can't carry on putting up with bad behaviour. There will be better people round the corner, especially if you dump the bad ones along the way.

Edited April 2, 2017 by spiderowl

[Marc878]

You are burning daylight. There are better out there.

[1fish2fish]

You are burning daylight. There are better out there.

 

That made me laugh.

[1fish2fish]

I am sorry you are going through this. I think you've done the right thing. You were obviously walking on eggshells trying not to upset him and he was being abusive in his attitude towards you. He should not belittle you and you did the right thing by calling him out on this. I think you just dumped a guy who wasn't good for you. I know it hurts to lose a relationship but you can't carry on putting up with bad behaviour. There will be better people round the corner, especially if you dump the bad ones along the way.

 

Thank you for your kind words, but...I haven't technically dumped him. Yet. There just hasn't been any contact in 24 hrs when I left his place.

[1fish2fish]

Oh, that's good! The ones with low self-worth are who will tear down other people. (Not all people with low self-worth certainly) Some people call it "leveling." The get a temporary lift from bringing someone down and feeling superior to them, but it doesn't last, which is why they NEVER stop and it becomes a cycle.

 

 

I've never heard of leveling before and I'm fairly fluent in dysfunction. But that makes sense and it does fit. It has definitely gotten progressively better, but I'm beginning to feel like a teacher, not a partner.

[1fish2fish]

Aaaand...while I was out with friends this evening, I received the following text from him: "I love you. Goodnight."

 

I didn't know how to respond, so I didn't. I don't want to play games or even give the appearance of playing games, but I also don't want to respond out of guilt or obligation.

 

I keep reminding myself - actions, not words. But sweet words do melt me.

 

Why is it so difficult to do what's best for yourself and not worry about the other person's response? *sigh*

[Altair0770]

If there is no communication there is no way to make a relationship work.

[EmilyJane]

I'm so sorry Fishy.

 

I can relate to a lot of it. I've cried so much these last six months.

 

I would be really interested in why you think he's an alcoholic. To compare to mine.

 

What you just described tho, is emotional abuse.

While I understand you aren't perfect and I know first hand the sorts of shocking behaviours you sometimes find yourself engaging in when you're around someone with addiction and issues that you get blamed for - I really think that you're taking far more of the blame than is yours.

[1fish2fish]

I'm so sorry Fishy.

 

I can relate to a lot of it. I've cried so much these last six months.

 

I would be really interested in why you think he's an alcoholic. To compare to mine.

 

What you just described tho, is emotional abuse.

While I understand you aren't perfect and I know first hand the sorts of shocking behaviours you sometimes find yourself engaging in when you're around someone with addiction and issues that you get blamed for - I really think that you're taking far more of the blame than is yours.

 

I'm so sorry you've been in so much pain.

 

You're right - I'm so shocked at what I've been engaging in and what I've allowed, I'm having a hard time deciphering between making excuses for him vs. finding valid reasons behind it. Maybe it's all making excuses and in me trying to understand the why's, and finding legitimate reasons for it, just accepting it.

 

He turns to alcohol to de-stress and unwind after work. It can be anywhere from 2-6 tumblers of whisky and ginger ale a night. This is 6 nights a week with a 1 day "cleanse" as he calls it. He's usually in bed by 8 for a 4 a.m. wakeup, and I try not to talk to him on the phone after 7, because if he's also smoking weed along with drinking, his personality changes. This is the main reason why we only see each other on the weekends, with the rare mid week evening visit.

 

He absolutely will not drive after drinking, so once he's home, he's home for the night. He pours his first drink at 5. He paid a 30 day price for drinking and driving 10 years ago and finally learned his lesson.

 

He's even admitted that he has an alcohol dependency.

 

I'd classify him as a high functioning alcoholic.

 

My ex, Richard, the one who I've described as kind hearted and very good to me, but a bit passive, jokingly refers to the bf as the "anti-Richard" because they are so opposite.

 

Bf and I got together via a setup by one of our mutual friends, a very good friend of mine, who I hold in high esteem. This is one of the reasons why I have hung in there longer than I should have - I keep wondering what I'm missing because she spoke so highly of him. But then I found out that it had been at least 6 years since she had last seen him. In those 6 years, he had gone through a nasty divorce from someone who married him for her green card, the death of his nephew who was like a son to him, and some genetic health issues.

 

I see so much potential in him, and he has come a long way, but...who do I love? Him...or his potential?? And what does this say about me? Am I trying to "fix" what was broken in my childhood growing up with ugly abusive alcoholic parents??

 

My question is...how do I do this? How do I end this cycle without throwing myself into an emotional tailspin? A letter? A text? (we communicate a lot by text for convenience) Am I just being a coward??

[teddyzain]

I totally agree with this, and I don't want to make it to sound like it's all his fault. but since I'm the one here on LS whose insides are in knots...

 

What's weird is that in my 10 yrs with my ex, he cried more than I did, and even that was rare. He was also a very kind hearted, sensitive man.

 

You are absolutely right about feeling the emotional pain. The curse of being an empath.

 

I do think that part of our r'ship is simply a compatibility issue. IF we do get a chance to talk again, I will follow your suggestion. Thank you.

 

Yeah. I didn't realize this until it was too late. I loved my ex-fiance but after a while, when she cried about minor things I shut down, not in a rude way. Just I'm reading, or working lets talk later type of response. I interpreted it as "the boy who cried wolf".

 

So many crying episodes over the years that I honestly thought there is no way she is truly upset, for example, that I slept on the couch last night (because it was warm upstairs and not because I didn't love her). I thought, she must be doing it for attention. So I disregarded it. Mind you at the beginning I responded to her crying always.

 

Anyway after she left I eventually realized that she was not just outwardly emotional but she was so sensitive that she felt the pain. I wish I made that connect earlier. However she left me in a cruel way and when I needed her most, so I'm not pining at this point, just reflecting. And the way she left makes me think she wasn't that sensitive all the time and some crying fits were for attention. It's not clear.

[Nothingtolose]

I can relate to a lot of what you're going through. I also struggle with my bf's temper and the fact that he gets so easily annoyed by things I say/do. I'm also very emotional like you and have cried many times over things he has said or during fights, which seems to aggravate him more, as he's not an emotional person and never cries. Mine also has issues with weed and alcohol, although he has reduced the weed recently and told me today he is going to stop drinking completely during week nights. I've also, like you, been told multiple times that I "ruined the evening" or "am trying to pick a fight", simply for expressing my feelings towards something. We did go to relationship counselling and it helped for a while, but he seemed to eventually reverse to his old ways.

 

I will tell you one thing I have learned in the past few months though: men like him need to be met at their level and dealt with with assertiveness. I've noticed that crying on a regular basis was being interpreted as weakness/not being emotionally stable, which in turn was making him not respect me as much. Recently after getting tired of crying all the time I started being more assertive, acting more confident and calmly stating things like "please lower your voice or stop talking to me" then proceeding to ignore him. It seems to "soften him up" way quicker than any tears of mine ever did.

 

I still dont know if we'll be able to work things out (we're going to live in separate houses for the imminent future) but we can't control other people's actions, only our own. I've been doing counselling, working on my childhoold traumas (angry and emotionally unavailable dad), reading up a ton and it has helped me regain some self-love and confidence, which has also helped me keep my emotions more under control. I'm not saying being an emotional person is a bad thing, but overflowing emotions tend to cloud our brain and not allow us to be confident and stand up for ourselves when we need to. Good luck

[Nothingtolose]

Yeah. I didn't realize this until it was too late. I loved my ex-fiance but after a while, when she cried about minor things I shut down, not in a rude way. Just I'm reading, or working lets talk later type of response. I interpreted it as "the boy who cried wolf".

 

So many crying episodes over the years that I honestly thought there is no way she is truly upset, for example, that I slept on the couch last night (because it was warm upstairs and not because I didn't love her). I thought, she must be doing it for attention. So I disregarded it. Mind you at the beginning I responded to her crying always.

 

Anyway after she left I eventually realized that she was not just outwardly emotional but she was so sensitive that she felt the pain. I wish I made that connect earlier. However she left me in a cruel way and when I needed her most, so I'm not pining at this point, just reflecting. And the way she left makes me think she wasn't that sensitive all the time and some crying fits were for attention. It's not clear.

 

Thanks for posting this, it's very interesting to see a guy's perspective on this - my boyfriend has used the boy who cried wolf analogy with me, and once told our counsellor he became immune to my tears because they happened so often. It's hard getting him to see it's not just for attention and that I honestly do feel the pain - a lot of his behaviours also trigger anxieties and issues I have from waaay back (childhood), but I understand this is something that is up to me to work on.

[1fish2fish]

 

Anyway after she left I eventually realized that she was not just outwardly emotional but she was so sensitive that she felt the pain. I wish I made that connect earlier. However she left me in a cruel way and when I needed her most, so I'm not pining at this point, just reflecting. And the way she left makes me think she wasn't that sensitive all the time and some crying fits were for attention. It's not clear.

 

This is very insightful of you but I'm so sorry she was so cruel in the end. I don't understand why it has to be that way for some people. If you truly love someone shouldn't you want the best for them? Even if it means parting ways? Pollyanna-ish I suppose, especially in this day and age, but that was the model set for me when my husband and I separated. And it's why we're such good friends today.

 

At any rate, I'm sorry you went through this and feel manipulated by her tears.

[1fish2fish]

I can relate to a lot of what you're going through. I also struggle with my bf's temper and the fact that he gets so easily annoyed by things I say/do. I'm also very emotional like you and have cried many times over things he has said or during fights, which seems to aggravate him more, as he's not an emotional person and never cries. Mine also has issues with weed and alcohol, although he has reduced the weed recently and told me today he is going to stop drinking completely during week nights. I've also, like you, been told multiple times that I "ruined the evening" or "am trying to pick a fight", simply for expressing my feelings towards something. We did go to relationship counselling and it helped for a while, but he seemed to eventually reverse to his old ways.

 

I will tell you one thing I have learned in the past few months though: men like him need to be met at their level and dealt with with assertiveness. I've noticed that crying on a regular basis was being interpreted as weakness/not being emotionally stable, which in turn was making him not respect me as much. Recently after getting tired of crying all the time I started being more assertive, acting more confident and calmly stating things like "please lower your voice or stop talking to me" then proceeding to ignore him. It seems to "soften him up" way quicker than any tears of mine ever did.

 

I still dont know if we'll be able to work things out (we're going to live in separate houses for the imminent future) but we can't control other people's actions, only our own. I've been doing counselling, working on my childhoold traumas (angry and emotionally unavailable dad), reading up a ton and it has helped me regain some self-love and confidence, which has also helped me keep my emotions more under control. I'm not saying being an emotional person is a bad thing, but overflowing emotions tend to cloud our brain and not allow us to be confident and stand up for ourselves when we need to. Good luck

 

Would he be open to going back to counseling? If he is cutting down on the weed/drinking, that's a great step. And good for you for starting to stand up to him!

 

I tucked that in the back of my head when I met up with the bf today to talk (more on that below in a separate post) and for the first time in a long time, I felt we were on the same level. Meaning, I was confident in what I had to say and was respectful with what he had to say, and we were able to talk like adults and gain a lot of understand. Amazing. lol

 

I've got a few books stacked on my nightstand ready to tackle. Good luck to you too! It sounds like you're on the right path!

[1fish2fish]

So, the bf reached out today via email and asked if we could meet up to talk about what happened Friday night so that it doesn't happen again.

 

Huge shocker! He has never been the one to reach out first wanting communication, and to ask for resolution for a specific incident??? Never. Normally, he waits for things to blow over and things get swept under the rug.

 

I agreed to meet - and I set the time and place. The local schoolyard where we could walk and talk.

 

And we walked and talked. I felt confident and acted confident about what I wanted to say, and we actually communicated. He specifically wanted to know what my triggers were and how to voice his questions in a way that wasn't belittling to me. In turn, I explained that my crying of late had been the result of things building up but me not being to identify the trigger - until it was too late and I overreacted.

 

Lots of stuff was discussed, and at the end I said that communication for us isn't easy because of our baggage, and it may continue to be hard for a long time until we get to know each other better. Is it worth it? He didn't hesitate - "absolutely."

 

Sadly, this is the first time he's ever even tried to work on communication with a gf - and he's 46. In his defense, his past gf's all cheated on him. Every single one.

 

We hugged, gave each other a peck or 2 on the lips, and wished each other a good day (Sundays are our errands day when we get sh*t done to prepare for the week). Progress.

 

Will this last? We'll see. And now I'm off for my Sunday 10 mile run.

[1fish2fish]

Oh - and I'm fully aware that the whole addiction issue hasn't been addressed yet.

 

That's next on the list.

[Hoosfoos]

His stronger bond is with the booze, and not you. You can't change this.