Oops, am I the OW?

[minimariah]

Part of me wants to send the "Napalm Email." That is to say "Hey, why did you chose me to do this to?" in a much more appropriate way.

 

i think you should do it.

 

i mean... why NOT? this dude is YOUR friend & you should be able to check in with him. don't be so hard on yourself - his failed marriage isn't your fault, responsibility. it is what it is, you don't know what's going on with him. so contact him and ask - if he keeps ghosting you, screw him. if he gives you a response... you'll know if it's honest or BS.

 

but i think contacting him is actually a good idea - divorce & all aside. yeah, he needs to be left alone and should go through the grief process but that doesn't mean that you should stay all the way out of his life.

 

this relationship meant a lot to you and it ended abruptly. don't feel bad about wanting answers and wanting to reach out. do it & you can move on from there.

[Grammie]

I just want to clarify a few misunderstanding here-- I'm not sure that he cheated, as he left before taking up with me. His wife understood he was preparing to do so for some time. I agree that it's sloppy and no good and feel very bad for his STBX-- I feel bad about getting in the middle of that situation so quickly-- but I don't think the man was dishonest. I think we both excercised a lot of restraint for two years. I just wish we'd waited it out a bit longer.

 

**You are assuming he left -- you really have no proof he did. He didn't tell his wife he was leaving and you have no idea if he moved into this alleged apartment. Kissing another woman is/can be considered cheating. You really have no idea of what his wife understood or didn't understand. You are going by the words of this dude who you are in love with and who has ghosted you.

 

Anyway, I still haven't heard from him. This really suprises me, as we have a history of friendship-- so it doesn't really make sense to chose me of all people to ghost. He had to go fairly far out of his way to do it, and has his pick of much more attractive women. 99.9% of our relationship was non sexual. When he showed up, there was talk about children and long harboured feelings and-- it just didn't have the air of a one night stand.

 

Part of me wants to send the "Napalm Email." That is to say "Hey, why did you chose me to do this to?" in a much more appropriate way. The truth is, in a strange way, I really wouldn't be heartbroken if he said "I was just got out of an unsuccessfull 3 year marriage and need to bang a bunch of girls/be alone. Sorry" or even "I made a horrible mistake, and that didn't go how I thought it would" or "Just hang on." --- but the silence is driving me insane. If it were some guy I met casually (not my style, but have done it once or twice) it would sting to be ghosted, sure, but it just wouldnt stress me out so much. I think I've been in love with this guy for a long time. Which is SOSOSOSOSO stupid. But makes this more complicated.

 

It's too strong to get over without some answers. How crazy will I look if I ask for them? Wish he'd just stayed gone.

**Call him and ask him. what will it hurt? He is showing you by his actions he isn't very interested. I know you want to believe that he is honoring your words of not wanting to get involved until he has actually told his wife, but at this point, I think that is you making excuses for him. Why are you stressed about contacting him? I personally think he has shown you his feelings - he can't even respond to a text? I'd be more pissed off than anything at this point.

[OWAmy]

I agree with the other posters - contact him. There's nothing worse than unanswered questions or the unknown. Maybe he is honouring you - I guess it depends on how literally he took your words. Some people (and I have come across them) do literally take you at your word. But then again, maybe not.

 

I'd email/text so at least you can think about it before you send it, but be prepared for a "holding message" or upsetting news.

 

Sitting around leaves you entirely powerless and at his mercy. Just find out what's really going on.....before you end up going crazy!

[Inspiteofrselves]

I got my closure, so I thought I'd give you yours!

 

I sent the email this weekend. Very understanding and sensitive and thoughtful.

 

I received just about the coldest email response about how he "apologizes if I interpreted him wrong" and that he was just very drunk.

 

Would really like to send a **** you email to the tune of "Could have picked a better girl than me to do this with/ why go so far out of your way / why keep the act up sober in the morning/ sorry for my impression? Like the one I got when you told me you had feelings for me for the past two years?" but I think I'll just let it be. At least I'm not on the hook anymore and in 6 months or so will feel better.

 

What a total cad. He knows me well enough to know I am a person and he doesn't even seem very sorry for what he did.

 

I would like to feel as angry as I sound but I just feel embarrassed and unloveable and not good enough. Typical. So reductive for the amount of time we've known each other.

 

What. Ever. Time will just have to fix it.

 

Glad I said something though. If anyone's on the fence about reaching out to someone in an ambiguous place, do it.

[Kat Keller]

I got my closure, so I thought I'd give you yours!

 

I sent the email this weekend. Very understanding and sensitive and thoughtful.

 

I received just about the coldest email response about how he "apologizes if I interpreted him wrong" and that he was just very drunk.

 

Would really like to send a **** you email to the tune of "Could have picked a better girl than me to do this with/ why go so far out of your way / why keep the act up sober in the morning/ sorry for my impression? Like the one I got when you told me you had feelings for me for the past two years?" but I think I'll just let it be. At least I'm not on the hook anymore and in 6 months or so will feel better.

 

What a total cad. He knows me well enough to know I am a person and he doesn't even seem very sorry for what he did.

 

I would like to feel as angry as I sound but I just feel embarrassed and unloveable and not good enough. Typical. So reductive for the amount of time we've known each other.

 

What. Ever. Time will just have to fix it.

 

Glad I said something though. If anyone's on the fence about reaching out to someone in an ambiguous place, do it.

 

I wish you well in moving forward with your life.

[anika99]

I got my closure, so I thought I'd give you yours!

 

I sent the email this weekend. Very understanding and sensitive and thoughtful.

 

I received just about the coldest email response about how he "apologizes if I interpreted him wrong" and that he was just very drunk.

 

Would really like to send a **** you email to the tune of "Could have picked a better girl than me to do this with/ why go so far out of your way / why keep the act up sober in the morning/ sorry for my impression? Like the one I got when you told me you had feelings for me for the past two years?" but I think I'll just let it be. At least I'm not on the hook anymore and in 6 months or so will feel better.

 

What a total cad. He knows me well enough to know I am a person and he doesn't even seem very sorry for what he did.

 

I would like to feel as angry as I sound but I just feel embarrassed and unloveable and not good enough. Typical. So reductive for the amount of time we've known each other.

 

What. Ever. Time will just have to fix it.

 

Glad I said something though. If anyone's on the fence about reaching out to someone in an ambiguous place, do it.

 

So sorry you got burned OP. When you first posted this thread about how the guy had turned up to say he was leaving his wife and then you hadn't heard from him in a week, my first thought was that he had come in hopes of getting laid. I still think that. Just because he wasn't pushy and he was a gentleman about being told no doesn't mean that wasn't his true intent.

 

I think some guys (actually way more guys then girls would like to admit) see all women as possible sex. Too many women think that their male friends are different and more honest and more sincere. I had a 12 yr friendship go down the tubes and I really thought we were best friends and that sex wasn't a part of the equation at all when it came to the two of us. I was wrong. I also had a good male friend who was 35 years older than me. He was a widower neighbor. almost almost 60yrs old while I was only 23 and a single parent. I admired him, respected him and regarded him as a bit of a mentor. Thought his intentions were pure ad that I knew everything about him and I turned out wrong about him too. That one really broke my heart because I had truly come to love him as a fatherly type figure.

 

So I think this guy was looking to his get his needs met, physically and maybe partially emotionally too and he didn't consider that you were a real person with feelings and heart. He didn't value you or the friendship you thought you had more than he valued what he wanted and needed in the moment. My advice to all women is that you don't ever give your heart away to someone until they have proven by actions (not words) that they actually deserve your heart. Women are too easily swayed by men's words, so much so that they overlook actions, or they don't wait for the actions, they just swoon over the words and then find themselves in love with a jerk.

[spiderowl]

So sorry, OP. Yes, total cad. You deserve better. Ever onwards ...

[sandylee1]

What a bas***d.

 

Time to block him and get out there to date others.

 

That was terrible of him.

 

Keep telling yourself, he wasn't worth it and that you deserve better.

 

You don't need the baggage of an Ex and a child.

[Overtaxed]

So sorry you got burned OP. When you first posted this thread about how the guy had turned up to say he was leaving his wife and then you hadn't heard from him in a week, my first thought was that he had come in hopes of getting laid. I still think that. Just because he wasn't pushy and he was a gentleman about being told no doesn't mean that wasn't his true intent.

 

I think some guys (actually way more guys then girls would like to admit) see all women as possible sex. Too many women think that their male friends are different and more honest and more sincere. I had a 12 yr friendship go down the tubes and I really thought we were best friends and that sex wasn't a part of the equation at all when it came to the two of us. I was wrong. I also had a good male friend who was 35 years older than me. He was a widower neighbor. almost almost 60yrs old while I was only 23 and a single parent. I admired him, respected him and regarded him as a bit of a mentor. Thought his intentions were pure ad that I knew everything about him and I turned out wrong about him too. That one really broke my heart because I had truly come to love him as a fatherly type figure.

 

So I think this guy was looking to his get his needs met, physically and maybe partially emotionally too and he didn't consider that you were a real person with feelings and heart. He didn't value you or the friendship you thought you had more than he valued what he wanted and needed in the moment. My advice to all women is that you don't ever give your heart away to someone until they have proven by actions (not words) that they actually deserve your heart. Women are too easily swayed by men's words, so much so that they overlook actions, or they don't wait for the actions, they just swoon over the words and then find themselves in love with a jerk.

 

Bolded above.

 

I only wish women knew how true this was. And no, this isn't holding myself out to be "better than" or "above that", I'm just like 99% of the other guys I know and yes, we think that way. I have 0 female friends, and will probably always have 0 female friends, because, end of the day, there's ALWAYS sexual tension there. Always, always always. Are there men/women who really are "best friends" with no sexual undertones? I'm sure there are, but I don't know any. If a man is trying to be or acting as if he's your "friend" he is, almost without doubt, trying to sleep with you (if he's aware of this or not is another story, but subconsciously, that's his motive).

 

A very blunt thing to say, but I'll say it here in the hopes that it helps someone understand; men really don't want to be your friend. We have plenty of options for friends (other men) who have far more in common with us than you do. Who don't have the "baggage" of sexual tension, who we can speak frankly around without fear of judgement or interpenetration and who "get us" in the way that only other men can. Now, if you've read my other posts, I'd say that many male friendships aren't healthy either (pushing each other into more and more dangerous situations, typically involving women and alcohol) but a male/female friendship is nearly always doomed to failure unless there's really no sexual attraction at all (and let me be clear, the only way that happens for men is if the woman is really unattractive, age gaps are no issue, as evidenced in this thread).

 

I know, I'm sorry to break it down like this, and I'm sure other men will jump on a rip me up saying they have great female friends, but, in most cases, it's not something that's healthy for your primary relationship; especially if your age and "looks rank" compatible.

[somanymistakes]

If a guy's friends with you for twelve years before making a move, either there's more to it than JUST sexual attraction or he's really, really stupid.

[elaine567]

If a guy's friends with you for twelve years before making a move, either there's more to it than JUST sexual attraction or he's really, really stupid.

 

I think it is like having a long term investment, the money is safe and secure, there is no need for it to produce instant returns. He doesn't actually need the money, he can afford to wait. As long as it just ticks over and he is not losing anything he is happy to wait for the right opportunity to cash in.

[somanymistakes]

I guess I'm just trying to draw a distinction between "I like this person, I also think they're hot and would go for it if I had the chance" and "Blah blah blah why do you keep talking and why are your pants still on? UGH."

[winterkeep]

Your update is a happy one even if it doesn't feel like it now

 

At best he sounds very confused and uncertain of himself, at worst he was stringing you along to help him feel better about leaving his wife. Regardless you're out of this mess and are now free to find a single, uncomplicated guy instead if the months or years of confusion you'd have had. Yay!

[Inspiteofrselves]

F*** this is hard. I'm now doubling back and feeling like I shouldn't have reached out. Ugh. The drunk disclaimer isn't working for me because he was sober for much of it. It's hard to believe he won't show up again because I told myself he wouldn't last time, even though I had a gnawing feeling he would, and he did. I should have given him more space. He was cold but he has so much going on and I feel like I torched this really important thing. Wtf am I doing stuck inside crying unable to eat for the past three days. I feel so weak.

[OWAmy]

No, you did the right thing in reaching out because you got an answer from him. A lot of people these days even in regular dating disappear without a trace. It's an awful thing to do so at least you do not have this not knowing.

 

The worst thing you can do is ruminate. Trust me, I know! If you can't stop this you'll have to learn not to let it get the better of you and be active alongside it. Get out more - reconnect with old friends, join a group. You just need to fill your time.

 

Sending a message has not ruined your chances or made him think differently. You sent it to know one way or the other and achieved that when he replied. If he had come back all wishy-washy you'd be even more confused now than the other week.

[OWAmy]

I've re-read a bit of the back story again. You say "I HATE not knowing", "...I cannot live in a grey area". I've pulled these bits out as you sound very similar to me. I am now adamant that you did the right thing in contacting him :-))

[Overtaxed]

I think it is like having a long term investment, the money is safe and secure, there is no need for it to produce instant returns. He doesn't actually need the money, he can afford to wait. As long as it just ticks over and he is not losing anything he is happy to wait for the right opportunity to cash in.

 

Yup. Used to do this all the time. Keep girls in my "circle of friends" just so that I had an easy transition to make to a sexual relationship. Pick up 101. It's much harder to do a "cold close" (meet someone at a bar, go home with them that night) than it is to transition from a friendly or professional relationship to a sexual one. It's also a different skill set, the "bar pickup" is what most of the player websites focus on, but IMHO, most guys aren't very good at that, it's a very odd skill and requires some really out of the "norm" actions. In short, you really have to think about it, there's a pretty specific list of things you have to do in a certain order in a certain time frame to pull off "hello" to bedroom in the 2-3 hours you have in a bar setting. For most guys, the skills of turning an acquaintance/colleague/friendship into a sexual relationship is far easier and more natural.

 

I like the investment analogy, makes a lot of sense. Building up these friendships is effectively "free", there's not much effort involved and there's not a lot that you have to do to maintain them once established. And if you wind up having sex, the payoff is huge, so a lot of guys will invest in something like that with a lot of women at once, waiting for the one who shows a little more interest, or waiting until they really make the move but building a rapport to make that move much easier.

[winterkeep]

Yikes Overtaxed! That's a very interesting (and sobering) glance into the male brain, I've seen similar situations play out with narcissists although attention is their primary driver over sex. It's the reason they keep coming back to their exes regardless of how badly they've devalued and damaged them only to disappear again and again. It's easier to keep going back to old supply than it is to groom a new one.

 

It fascinates me that similar dynamics play out in affairs even if the other person isn't disordered.

Sorry for the off topic question but when you do this do you have any intent of romantically pursuing these women or do you know it's only sexual for you? No judgement I'm just curious ?

[winterkeep]

OP you didn't destroy anything, if he were treating you with respect and had been showing interest you wouldn't have had reason to ask in the first place.

 

His excuse of being drunk is pretty brutal and was certainly meant to put you in your place. He could have just said that he cares about you but had a lot to sort out, or the timing was wrong, or he needed to be alone, or that he meant it but circumstances had changed - you get the idea. Instead he TOLD you that he's not interested, that's not a nice or easy thing to have to do ESPECIALLY if you care for someone so I'd listen to him if I were you.

 

That's not to say that he won't be back once he's bored or lonely and you are no longer acting 'emotionally' (or like any other human being would with normal emotions and attachments). It's already becoming a pattern with him and is really typical of what we see here.

 

The problem (well one of!) with MM is that by virtue of his being married he will always have what could be considered a reasonable an excuse for his shoddy treatment of you. "yes I disapered and pretended I was drunk when I acted like I had feeling for you but I was married and didn't know what else to do... " it even plays out here in excuses for sleeping with other women, lying, going NC without warning for vast periods of time and the OWs accept this behaviour because, well he's married. It keeps OW accepting their MM back because if a single guy acted this way he's just a dick but any woman with empathy can easily be manipulated into thinking it's circumstance and not him or his lack of feeling for you. But it IS him and if he cared for you he would never have said what he did so do t get sucked back in when he inevitably contacts you again.

 

It hurts and it's not easy Hun but you've been given a great opportunity to walk away with dignity and to focus on your life without this damaging situation - I think you should take it.

[Overtaxed]

Yikes Overtaxed! That's a very interesting (and sobering) glance into the male brain, I've seen similar situations play out with narcissists although attention is their primary driver over sex. It's the reason they keep coming back to their exes regardless of how badly they've devalued and damaged them only to disappear again and again. It's easier to keep going back to old supply than it is to groom a new one.

 

It fascinates me that similar dynamics play out in affairs even if the other person isn't disordered.

Sorry for the off topic question but when you do this do you have any intent of romantically pursuing these women or do you know it's only sexual for you? No judgement I'm just curious ?

 

It's mostly sexual. Before meeting my W, I'd say I was pretty fond of a few other women, but not really "In love", not like I am with her (or was shortly after meeting her).

 

The "pursuit" (to answer your question directly) was never about romance for me, it was always, without exception, about sex. Only once we'd had sex would I start to look at the romantic implications. And in almost all cases (as stated above) the romantic prospects with most of these women weren't there. I've never pursued a woman for romance, I'm not wired that way, and I don't know of any men who are. The closest would perhaps be a friend of mine who was always really looking to get married, he was pursuing a woman for marriage from about age 14 onward (not entirely kidding). But romance just doesn't seem to enter in the equation when I talk with other men. It's not a core need/desire for the men that I know, we just don't seek it out, it comes as a consequence of developing an intimate relationship with someone.

 

Men pursue exes and women from work or their circle of friends because it's easy. It's easier to get sex from them than to go out and meet someone else where you have no social proof.

[Hecan]

Guys/men are only after one thing so don't have sex/ allow intimacy until you are in a full blown relationship?? Guess we should all be telling our girls this too ?? Because then the OP wouldn't be hurting now ??

Just wondering ... Because you tell all these things about guys but how do women know when it is a relationship worth pursuing ?

[somanymistakes]

It's not all men, but it definitely is some men. And your mother probably DID tell you that, but did it actually help?

 

If your emotions are tuned to fall for the kind of people who will use and abuse you, will any amount of warning actually stop you from getting your heart broken?

[Hecan]

But OT. Speaks a lot about how men will do anything, and these guys don't sound like they appear to be scumbags, just really good manipulators. Is this fair OT? So the OP gets caught

"Being had". My question is how can you tell ??

Edited April 24, 2017 by Hecan
Tmi

[Overtaxed]

But OT. Speaks a lot about how men will do anything, and these guys don't sound like they appear to be scumbags, just really good manipulators. Is this fair OT? So the OP gets caught

"Being had". My question is how can you tell ??

 

If I could give you an answer to that question; I'd be rich. Writing a book "How to 100% know if a man wants a relationship vs sex". It would be a bestseller.

 

The best thing I can do is give you some signs, but, the hard thing about this is going to be these are signs that women find very attractive (it's why men do it), so it's about as helpful as saying "All women who are really hot cheat". Which might be a good generalization, but it's not really telling you what you want to know.

 

Men who are really "smooth" around women are generally that way because they practiced a lot and/or studied game.

Men who approach you directly, especially at night, are generally "on the prowl".

Men who take an interest in your work outside of just a passing question

Men who are really good in bed (they didn't get that way without a lot of practice)

Men who throw off an air of confidence in a social setting

Men who are the life of the party

Men who are very good looking/built (they look like that to make the work of seducing you easier)

 

I know. It's pretty much a list of "This is what I want in a man" for most women. It's exactly why these men act like this; and it's a huge red flag. I know women don't want to date men who aren't confident, a little overweight, have trouble getting it up, and are a little rough around the edges in social settings. But that's exactly the kind of man who's likely to NOT be doing the things I observe regularly at work. The men I work with aren't mostly "hot", but they are wealthy, and they very confident, both in what they do and in this ability to bed women. They know what to say to get you to laugh, they've studied books on seducing women, and they are so smooth you can easily forget you're feeding on nothing but lines.

[Hecan]

Just acting like a guy...

 

Right