My Best Friend is My AP...

[Kat Keller]

Yes people here seem to be much more accepting of affairs where spouses do not know each other or there is no connecting relationships .

They have sympathy for single other women but not married other women that kind of thing.

 

 

Hmm... I guess I don't see the difference. An affair is an affair (they are all wrong there is no degree of wrong once you cross that line). I have to kind of chuckle at the irony here though. Frankly, seems MUCH more dangerous to me to get involved with a single person considering when many of them get disgruntled they tell the spouse in retaliation because they have a lot less to lose.

 

I think there's some truth in the fact that everybody just wants to find somebody else that is worse than them. They feel they aren't doing something AS wrong as another maybe it's easier.

 

 

I would disagree. I don't think everyone wants that... I sure as heck don't. To me ANY kind of affair is JUST as wrong as any other. All involved cheating, lying, and betrayal. And I don't know really anyone who seriously thinks those things are acceptable whether they engage in them or not.

 

My AP is my best friend as well.

I have faced judgement for the last four years because of it. Here I am still posting ha ha! It is a good outlet for my feelings to come here even though I do not feel guilty to the level that some feel I should.

 

 

LOL... Wow... four years, huh. Well have you found anyone else in a relatively stable situation like yours? I'm actually stunned to even find someone here who has a situation like mine! But I guess like the old saying goes, "There is nothing new under the sun."

 

 

I'm not sure why there is this harping on guilt to be honest. I DO NOT like the lying, cheating, sneaking, and betrayal at all. I CLEARLY see ALL of those things and 100% wrong. But I truly just don't feel guilty about loving my AP or being with him. I never ever have... we talked extensively about crossing the line before we ever did... it wasn't this wild whirlwind of hopping in the sheets. We bother talked about it ad nauseam before hand. But we couldn't keep dying how we felt either... that denial was emotionally more difficult than the darn affair itself!

 

 

In my personal opinion, people have different emotional reactions to things and I'm not going to sit and harshly judge someone because they don't feel guilt about what I do. However, I would be disturbed if someone was to say they don't find ANY of these things to be wrong! Now that is what would throw me for a loop.

[Birdies]

AutumnMoon,

 

 

I'm not sure how to do that... but I will look into it and thank you for offering. It's incredibly kind of you. It is rather hostile here. I absolutely DO NOT mind the judgment...that's what people do. They judge even when they are being blatant hypocrites. I can take that and it's fine.

 

 

I understand that I'm engaging in an affair (which is morally wrong...while I don't feel my love for my AP is wrong, I do think the affair is because it's lying and cheating. Those things are just wrong and I freely admit that and did in the other thread but most people glazed over that so they could spout off their rhetoric) so it will rub some disgruntled people the wrong way since I'm not here expressing what others may expect or think I should feel. That's not my issue as people are free to feel and think what they want.

 

 

My issue is the rudeness, sarcasm, and dismissal of anything that is NOT on par with the consensus of frequent posters here regarding affairs. There is no reason for all that over the top nonsense.

 

Can I ask you a question? This is what has been so confusing and intriguing about your situation - that you state (at least somewhere in one of your many posts) that you believe 100% that affairs are wrong, that your husband and children would be very hurt and damaged if it came to light, and that your husband would not be interested in any kind of open relationship - but you also say you feel no guilt. It seems like those things are mutually exclusive to me.

 

You say you've thought about that and understand why you don't feel guilty. What is the why? Just out of curiosity. Having been in a similar situation, I'm just intrigued by those of us who have been through this experience.

 

Is it because you don't think it will ever come to light and you think "what they don't know won't hurt them"? I certainly tried to hang my hat on that perspective myself.

 

Ps - you are VERY indignant and self-righteous about all the judgement you have received. It's true that there are some people who love to shlt on OW / OM because they've been hurt by infidelity in the past. But in this thread and the last one, a great number - probably the majority - of posters have been in affairs themselves. We are not being self-righteously judgmental because we can't understand your true love. We are recognizing the same lapses in judgement that we also had, and we see the path laid out in front of you that leads to many, many people being hurt because of those lapses, and we are trying to help you understand before it's too late. If you only want to hear the advice you agree with ("keep going, no one will be hurt, and even if they are, true love is worth it!") then perhaps this is not the place for you. Try to set aside the overly snarky responses, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

[AutumnMoon]

Yes I have known my AP for almost a decade. Emotional affair started about 5/6 years ago full physical affair for four and a half, five years now depending if I start at hand holding, kissing or sex .. nobody in real life except his mother has ever voiced suspicion.

[Birdies]

Pps - oh and just to your point about all affairs being equally wrong - the issue with yours and AutumnMoon's that some don't have, and that make them worse on the spouse/family when it comes out, is the aspect of double betrayal. Not only is your marriage a lie, but so is your most important friendship/kids' friendship. It's like how it's worse to cheat on someone with their brother or dad than with a perfect stranger. I know you can understand that.

[Kat Keller]

Yes I have known my AP for almost a decade. Emotional affair started about 5/6 years ago full physical affair for four and a half, five years now depending if I start at hand holding, kissing or sex .. nobody in real life except his mother has ever voiced suspicion.

 

Ah okay. Six almost seven years here total. But we didn't get physical until two years ago. We both were chicken but the emotional affair was definitely much longer and we both knew we had to AT LEAST discuss it. I kept avoiding it like the plague until he called me on it and I had no where to "run".

 

 

His mother has been dropping what I think are hints for a while now. And we will know for sure next week if she knows because he's going to ask.

 

 

What your AP's mother's feelings about your affair?

 

 

I get this feeling that his mother thinks we should be together. She and I get along very well and unfortunately, his mother and his wife....let's just say that's not so great.

[Starswillshine]

I don't think people are so much in "judgement" of you as much as they are trying to warn you. Because a lot of people on this forum have been in your shoes before and possibly have thought the same things you are thinking. They have seen the fallout, the destruction, the pain, etc.

 

There are Single OW, MOW, MM, BS here on this board. We all come here because in some way, we have been affected by an affair. I know it is hard to see when you are living it right now. You can only imagine what may happen when this all comes to light (if it ever does). Many people have come here before and the members have warned them of what will happen, they didn't listen, and now they are suffering and in immense pain because of it. They are trying to save some heartache.

 

And yes, people seem to be kinder to SOW here. And I understand it. If a MM was on here, people would point out how wrong he was to be involved in an affair. As a MOW, you are not just betraying his wife (in a lot of cases, the SOW doesn't even know the wife, she is just a name without a face), but you are always betraying your own family. So you have 2 sides of it. There is reason why people have more issue with the MOW vs SOW.

 

But to your post, I always wonder, why did it take so long for people to figure out that they weren't compatible? You marry and then have children, and then all of sudden, "Well, they don't make me happy anymore." At some point, you (general you) were happy, so fix that crap. I believe in those vows though. Probably a larger discussion for another thread. And now I am rambling. Sorry..

[darkbloom]

I think you've been treated fairly by a lot of the posters here. Most people posting have been in affairs themselves. They have made every step you've made and thought many of the same thoughts you are sharing. They've also experienced the emotional devastation that comes from this thinking and these choices.

 

There can only be three outcomes of the situation you're in:

 

You and AP stay a secret and continue what you are doing. (This is the most unlikely of the three.) You are walking on a very fine line right now. If either of you slips up then it'll all be out there. And you won't be able to control the blowback.

 

One or both BS discovers the affair. This is the most likely outcome if you stay on the path. Once they discover it, there are no take backs and you can't control how the informatiton is disseminated. Your children will be impacted the most.

 

You or AP decide to end your marriage(s) and persue the other as single people. I know your AP said he wants his children to grow up the way he grew up. But you're absolutely right when you told him they aren't because the marriage isn't the same. Children pick up on things and they know when things aren't right. I think your love is absolutely real and this is the best long term solution to your situation.

 

The naysayers are warning you of the very real consequences that could happen. I've seen hundreds of posters come and go and very, very few are able to remain a secret.

 

Ultimately your AP is right. It is your life to live and you should make whatever choices you're comfortable with. I'm just giving you food for thought. Keep us updated on the situation. I always come back to threads even if I'm not actively posting.

[DKT3]

I don't think people are so much in "judgement" of you as much as they are trying to warn you. Because a lot of people on this forum have been in your shoes before and possibly have thought the same things you are thinking. They have seen the fallout, the destruction, the pain, etc.

 

There are Single OW, MOW, MM, BS here on this board. We all come here because in some way, we have been affected by an affair. I know it is hard to see when you are living it right now. You can only imagine what may happen when this all comes to light (if it ever does). Many people have come here before and the members have warned them of what will happen, they didn't listen, and now they are suffering and in immense pain because of it. They are trying to save some heartache.

 

And yes, people seem to be kinder to SOW here. And I understand it. If a MM was on here, people would point out how wrong he was to be involved in an affair. As a MOW, you are not just betraying his wife (in a lot of cases, the SOW doesn't even know the wife, she is just a name without a face), but you are always betraying your own family. So you have 2 sides of it. There is reason why people have more issue with the MOW vs SOW.

 

But to your post, I always wonder, why did it take so long for people to figure out that they weren't compatible? You marry and then have children, and then all of sudden, "Well, they don't make me happy anymore." At some point, you (general you) were happy, so fix that crap. I believe in those vows though. Probably a larger discussion for another thread. And now I am rambling. Sorry..

 

She is happy, her MM is happy so they don't have true empathy for those that will be impacted. They have a plan in place for discovery, but in the words of Mike Tyson "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face, then the plan goes to chit"

 

I'm sure she believes in MM and he believes in her. However, we've all seen this time and time again. Once the spouses find out it's highly probable one of them will become a speed bump for that run-a-way bus, most likely OP. Ultimately, she will be fine either way, as will her husband and his wife (likely happier in the long run with better partners) but the impact on the kids will be lasting, likely impacting Thier own adult relationship.

[Starswillshine]

She is happy, her MM is happy so they don't have true empathy for those that will be impacted. They have a plan in place for discovery, but in the words of Mike Tyson "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face, then the plan goes to chit"

 

I'm sure she believes in MM and he believes in her. However, we've all seen this time and time again. Once the spouses find out it's highly probable one of them will become a speed bump for that run-a-way bus, most likely OP. Ultimately, she will be fine either way, as will her husband and his wife (likely happier in the long run with better partners) but the impact on the kids will be lasting, likely impacting Thier own adult relationship.

 

It's hard to see it when she hasn't lived it yet.

 

Meanwhile, my beautiful, used to be full of laughter 7 year old... well, her teacher called me to tell me about her journals in class. My SEVEN year old is discussing suicide. My precious baby..... she is writing about suicide.

 

This is the real affects of affairs.

[Kat Keller]

It's hard to see it when she hasn't lived it yet.

 

Meanwhile, my beautiful, used to be full of laughter 7 year old... well, her teacher called me to tell me about her journals in class. My SEVEN year old is discussing suicide. My precious baby..... she is writing about suicide.

 

This is the real affects of affairs.

 

I'm incredibly sorry that your child is writing about suicide. That's devastating for any parent and very unfortunate (heartbreaking) for your little girl. I do wish you and your family well and your child peace. It's obvious you love her very much or you wouldn't have posted that at all. That's a very deeply serious and personal situation.

 

 

Thanks for sharing.

[DKT3]

It's hard to see it when she hasn't lived it yet.

 

Meanwhile, my beautiful, used to be full of laughter 7 year old... well, her teacher called me to tell me about her journals in class. My SEVEN year old is discussing suicide. My precious baby..... she is writing about suicide.

 

This is the real affects of affairs.

 

I have seen the impact on my own 17 year old son...His view of relationships is off, while his is respectful of young women he is very dismissive for the slightest offence. His trust in his mother is deeply damaged, we are working hard together to repair it before he is off to college fall of 18.

[Imajerk17]

I'm incredibly sorry that your child is writing about suicide. That's devastating for any parent and very unfortunate (heartbreaking) for your little girl. I do wish you and your family well and your child peace. It's obvious you love her very much or you wouldn't have posted that at all. That's a very deeply serious and personal situation.

 

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

I hope you are seeing the connection between this and YOUR situation OP. You seem to be focusing on an awful lot on YOU--your feelings, your guilt, ect. Your conversation w AP's mother. But you have NO idea of the effect that your affair is really having on your family.

 

And you seem to have no intention of trying to fix this, as much as possible. Which is why you are getting so many harsh (but given the pain you are causing others, fair) comments.

 

Everyone is focusing on whether you feel remorse or not. In the end though, it doesn't matter so much whether you feel guilty, it is instead about what you do to make this situation right, or rather as right as possible. You might have decided that you and AP are soul-mates. Then come clean about it so your families can stop living a lie and finally get to healing. A separation/divorce now will be extremely painful, but not nearly as bad when this comes to light much later on. I mean, now your husband has been going on vacations all this time w a dude that has been banging his wife. This is no way for someone to keep on living.

[Starswillshine]

I have seen the impact on my own 17 year old son...His view of relationships is off, while his is respectful of young women he is very dismissive for the slightest offence. His trust in his mother is deeply damaged, we are working hard together to repair it before he is off to college fall of 18.

 

I have a son, same age. His last year of home life... turmoil. But you know what he is worried about? Me. His younger siblings. He's too young to have to worry about this already. It's too much on him. He should be focusing on the best times of his life. This has stolen that from him.

 

Watched a situation just like the OP's. 2 couple who do a lot of things together. One husband having an affair with the other's wife. Their daughters... best friends. All came to light. It is a mess. One couple moved out of town. The daughters who were best friends hate each other. Not only did it affect the 2 girls, but the friends of those girls. They all had to pick sides. It's a damn ripple effect. The MOW and her husband are repairing things but still live here and everyone hates her. She lost all her friends.

[Kat Keller]

I hope you are seeing the connection between this and YOUR situation OP.

 

No, I don't.

 

 

And I wouldn't use someone else's tragic situation to equate with my own as I don't know all the facts of that particular situation.

[Starswillshine]

No, I don't.

 

 

And I wouldn't use someone else's tragic situation to equate with my own as I don't know all the facts of that particular situation.

 

All situations are different and unique yet all a bit the same. Doesn't really matter because the pain for the innocent, that is all the same. Especially that of the children.

[elaine567]

 

His mother has been dropping what I think are hints for a while now. And we will know for sure next week if she knows because he's going to ask.

 

...I get this feeling that his mother thinks we should be together. She and I get along very well and unfortunately, his mother and his wife....let's just say that's not so great.

 

I wouldn't put too much store on the mother.

What sort of a mother condones her son cheating on his wife and the mother of his children?

I guess if she does, she maybe just loves drama.

I know there is often animosity between the DIL and the MIL, but you need to take her supposed "preference" for you with a pinch of salt. She may be "delightful" at the moment, but I would not trust her.

If you ever get to be her DIL, she may be just as willing to "gang up" on you.

If you are all so religious as you claim to be, then she may indeed be happy her son has a friend and a confidante to raise his spirits, but she may not be so happy that he has a "mistress".

I know it is all a bit of an ego boost for you to have his mother supposedly "on side", but be careful.

[Kat Keller]

I wouldn't put too much store on the mother.

What sort of a mother condones her son cheating on his wife and the mother of his children?

I guess if she does, she maybe just loves drama.

I know there is often animosity between the DIL and the MIL, but you need to take her supposed "preference" for you with a pinch of salt. She may be "delightful" at the moment, but I would not trust her.

If you ever get to be her DIL, she may be just as willing to "gang up" on you.

If you are all so religious as you claim to be, then she may indeed be happy her son has a friend and a confidante to raise his spirits, but she may not be so happy that he has a "mistress".

I know it is all a bit of an ego boost for you to have his mother supposedly "on side", but be careful.

 

No one said his mother condones cheating.

 

 

No one said we were "all so religious".

 

 

No one said his mother's like of me boosts my ego.

 

 

These are all spins on what I stated.

[Birdies]

[]

 

I'm still curious about my question why it is you don't feel guilty? I'm not trying to shame you at all, I'm just curious. Is it because you think no one will get hurt because you're careful?

 

If you continue not to respond, I'll take the hint and leave this thread alone. Was just hoping for some dialogue.

 

Good luck with it all

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Redacted off topic content ~6

[minimariah]

[]

 

the entire story wouldn't be so devastating if there weren't for the kids. if i understood, the OP and the wife aren't best of friends anyway so i don't really see betrayal from that end.

Edited April 19, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Redacted off-topic content ~6

[Kat Keller]

 

I'd say the one word I'd use to describe the OP is "selfish". Selfish and self-entitled.

 

.

 

Everyone is selfish to some degree. The fact that you are posting here and not helping someone in need means you are selfish. It's human nature.

[kgcolonel]

Hi Kat and yes I know that I told you I was tapping out on this but I do have one question and please don't take it as an attack but more as I am interested in understanding your ideology of the situation.

 

If you indeed feel no guilt, (and I do honestly believe you) why wouldn't you just tell your husband that you are involved with your BF? Just curious.

[Tulipwood]

DKT3 - I'm well aware that EVERYONE will be hurt.

 

[]

 

It will be a whole lot of hurt for many many people. That hurt will last for many years to come with so many consequences that a person will not have thought of.

 

[]

 

So my anonymous being was trying to nudge a thought process in Kat that bringing this to the light sooner than later would be beneficial to not just the other spouses but all the children involved.

 

Everyone involved​ will be hurt, maybe not all at once. OP is aware which is the reason for the disclaimer, to control the conversation and avoid judgement.

 

Kat I really wish it could work out and no one got hurt. But it can't. No matter how detailed the conversation you and AP have no end game and as mature as you think you're handling the situation it's really teenage logic and reasoning.

Edited April 19, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[minimariah]

As far as me loving my kids is concerned...

 

no one is discussing your [love] for your kids... or even your motherhood. obviously - we don't know you & we can't comment on your parenthood.

 

i'm sure you love your kids. i'm sure you care about your kids - most of other parents do. the thing is... loving your kids does not make you a fit parent. it doesn't mean that you actually have your kids' best interests at heart. in fact, it is entirely possible to [love] your children and to [completely] fail at parenting them (and before you jump... i'm writing in general - not about you).

 

the truth is - you're having an A. your lover is spending a lot of time with your children, you're spending a lot of time with his children. again. you're in an affair and you're planning to be together in the future... at some point. at [any time] - your A could be exposed. you don't know how your BSs will react. there is a possibility of your children finding out about it - you don't know how [they] will react.

 

so essentially... you're doing something risky and dangerous and something that could potentially harm your children. [] you've been doing it for two years now. there is [no way] your A doesn't take [something], a tiny little [anything]... from your family. that's logically impossible... which is why folks jumped when you painted the perfect picture of your lover - a man who seemingly does everything... runs a huge company, is the primary caretaker for his kids, runs the chores and has weekly dates with you. it's [impossible] that's something in his life isn't suffering - to some extent. and the same goes for the way you're trying to portray your A.

 

does having an A means that you don't love your kids? no. does it make you the World's Greatest Mother...? no. and that's just how it is.

 

[]

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[Life lessons]

I've read most of your thread and I have a quick question....in regards to your affair partner and yourself.

 

Do you truly feel that your AP would leave his wife to be with you, if you asked him?

 

In many cases the MM states that he will in fact leave his wife for the OW, but in reality, that seldomly happens. (And yes, I do recall you stating that you are both happy in the present arrangement....but I'm curious as to if he would truly leave his wife for you or if he may only be telling you that you're the love of his life) more times than not,once the ultimatum is given, the MM often can't bring himself to leave....so I was curious if this may be the case here!?

 

Guess I have one additional question.

 

Have you tried discussing this with your AP, if only to see whether or not he would offer excuses as to why he can't/won't leave his wife?

 

I know I would be curious to know if he truly means what he is saying.

[curiouslysearching]

I've read most of your thread and I have a quick question....in regards to your affair partner and yourself.

 

Do you truly feel that your AP would leave his wife to be with you, if you asked him?

 

In many cases the MM states that he will in fact leave his wife for the OW, but in reality, that seldomly happens. (And yes, I do recall you stating that you are both happy in the present arrangement....but I'm curious as to if he would truly leave his wife for you or if he may only be telling you that you're the love of his life) more times than not,once the ultimatum is given, the MM often can't bring himself to leave....so I was curious if this may be the case here!?

 

Guess I have one additional question.

 

Have you tried discussing this with your AP, if only to see whether or not he would offer excuses as to why he can't/won't leave his wife?

 

I know I would be curious to know if he truly means what he is saying.

 

 

those are good questions but I have another

 

Do you feel it is FAIR to either of the other spouses ???? As far as the love

you seemingly share with the MM? In other words, if you are both in love with one another RIGHT OR WRONG don't the spouses deserve the same opportunity to find SOMEONE ELSE TO LOVE AS WELL?