Inviting all who gave a second chance

[exoticdesi]

I wanted to start a thread to find out from their own personal experience and not from their beliefs, whether patching up the broken mirror ever worked from them. Especially DazednConfused, ThumbingTheirWay, WhichWay, Fly, LadyJane, StillHurting, LucreliaBorgia and all other wise people. I don't want to put my own story here, but want to get honest replies. I have read lot of threads from both BS and WS, and it just seems that what ever you do after an A, it is pretty much doomed case. I would really like to hear someone vouch that they were able to rebuild their marriage and they are happy with each other five or seven years down the lane.

 

The path as many of them have tried here is to work on rebuilding their M or to put it right Saving their M, by talking, going to MC, having a NC with OM/OW, but most importantly trying to forget what happened and treating it like a mistake. More often I have seen the BS instead of WS doing much work (lot of them even take the blame of spouse's A on themselves). But there are many issues with this. To begin with, The WS decides to stay mainly because of all the wrong reasons. - Family, Society, Kids, Financial Security, but not for the main reason LOVE. That was lost already. They have already convinced themselves of that before getting into the A. The reason BS gives most of the time is "I love him/her and that's why I am sticking to him/her even after what they did". But I don't thinks so. During the time of the A, the relationship between husband/wife are normally strained and distant. Did they feel the same love at that time before discovering the A their spouses had? Probably not. Only after being jolted down, caught unaware, and the fear of losing their spouses does this realization occur. For men, though they hate to admit, is the hidden beneath big ego of "men are supposed to be having A, not wives"; "how can she call quits"; or simply "how can she not just love me anymore". For women, it is sometimes more of the fear of what will happen to them if the security blanket is just pulled away.

 

Many women here have reported that OM doesn't want to leave his family, but then still continues to see them. Same thing for women who have cheated their husbands. Even after agreeing to NC, I can bet my life that not a single women would have adhered to it 100%. Simply because for women, the A is always too much emotional than physical. It has gotten too much into their minds to simply shrug it off. Sooner or later, it rears its ugly head. They cannot forget it because they had a wonderful time and that they were kind of semi-forced to give it up ("either OM/OW or our Marriage.."). Don't get me wrong. It is not that they don't realize it is/was a big mistake crossing the lines or how much they feel for hurting their spouses. But because of lack of consequential action, they feel tempted to reopen the burried skeletons. I have heard it so many time "we know it is bad, but we couldn't control it ....". WS have recheated their BS, even while going to MC and affirming again and again that they want their Marriage to work and are giving 100% of their commitment. Simply why ?

 

You may happen to rekindle your married life, start dating your spouses again, shower her with affection, try to understand her better, but for how long ? The married life has its own stresses. However hard you try, you cannot keep the attraction and affection 24/7. There are not that many fireworks in a commited married life. People still yearn for their first love 20 years back, because what they have in their current life is not attractive anymore. The attraction to forbidden was always there, add to it the boredom of marriage and most importantly getting off the hook the first time. (The only way it would work is when WS is content with whatever he/she has and looks for happiness within themselves, which is a very rare occurence. If they had that kind of thinking, then again they would never had an A....)

 

So you have a situation where you are in a marriage where things will never be the same, where trust, love, attraction, affection has taken a huge dive. Your self esteem is low. You are hopelessly looking for love from your spouse. You cannot indulge in extra marital affairs yourself because of your own reasoning and thinking and how hurt you felt. And when you think everything is working perfect, they may be re-cheating, just that little bit extra careful this time. Is it all worth ...? Lot of them would say here that if you cannot trust your WS, then you are not giving a fair chance. True. But how many WS here would say that they repaid the faith shown to them by their spouses, by being 100% loyal and honest to them.......?

[StillHurtin]

I don't know if you meant you wanted to hear from me, or the other Still Hurting (she is now I Survived, she changed her screen name). Anyhoo, since I am replying I can tell you how things are going since my H's A during our seperation and giving him a second chance. Sometimes I wonder if it would of been easier not to give him a second chance b/c of the jealousy issues. I get jealous whenever he talks to another woman. I shouldn't be jealous, but I am.

 

The trust issue has gotten better as time has went on. I guess I don't want to leave my guard down and I continue to keep my eyes open for. I don't trust woman anymore and not that's not fair to them either. The reason for my mistrust of OW is b/c the exOW was the one who persued my H. I know not all women are like the exOW, who doesn't care if a man is M or not.

 

I believe my M is better now that it was b4. I wasn't happy b4 the A. I hated my job, hated where we lived, and I just felt like I was stuck. If H wouldn't have had the A I wouldn't of quit my job, moved out of our home, and started a new life. I love my new job, love where I live, and I am a much happier person now.

 

H and I still disagreements about our financial problems, but not as bad as it use to be. We use to have arguements about him being gone all the time leaving me home to raise our kids. Now, he is home every night, doesn't go to the bars anymore, and comes straight home after his games. It has made me happier b/c of it. I fell like it's more of a M than it was b4 the A.

 

I can't speak for anyone else here, but the A was actually good for our M. Sounds silly, I know. I wish it never happened but it did and I am a stronger person b/c of it.

[LoveNoLoss]

Well...I found out my husband cheated twice me early in our marriage... but little did I know he had a total of 7 OW including one that lasted 2 years... should I give him another chance?

Hmmmmmm... it ain't looking good.... I deserve someone that really loves me... all this time I was under a heavy illusion while he exposed me to the possibility of AIDS... and telling me he always loved me and he wasn't unhappy in the marriage... so... mine cheated and was still happy... toughie eh? Im looking for the real thing.... doubt I will find it anytime soon....

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by exoticdesi

The path as many of them have tried here is to work on rebuilding their M or to put it right Saving their M, by talking, going to MC, having a NC with OM/OW, but most importantly trying to forget what happened and treating it like a mistake.

 

There's a difference between forgiving and forgetting. Successfully reconciled BS's unsually don't forget....but they do forgive.

 

I like to think of forgiveness as writing off a debt that can NEVER be collected.

 

Sure, I could have turned the tables and done the same thing back to him. I could have shown him first-hand what kind of pain he put me through. But it wouldn't have fixed it for either of us. It would only have exacerbated the situation.

 

So, if that's the ONLY appropriate coin for the debt of infidelity, I'm better off forgiving the debt.

 

Because Infidelity itself, makes victims of BOTH the betrayed spouse and the perpetrator. You lose respect for yourself when you go outside the parameters of your own value system.

 

More often I have seen the BS instead of WS doing much work (lot of them even take the blame of spouse's A on themselves). But there are many issues with this. To begin with, The WS decides to stay mainly because of all the wrong reasons. - Family, Society, Kids, Financial Security, but not for the main reason LOVE. That was lost already. They have already convinced themselves of that before getting into the A. The reason BS gives most of the time is "I love him/her and that's why I am sticking to him/her even after what they did". But I don't thinks so. During the time of the A, the relationship between husband/wife are normally strained and distant. Did they feel the same love at that time before discovering the A their spouses had? Probably not. Only after being jolted down, caught unaware, and the fear of losing their spouses does this realization occur. For men, though they hate to admit, is the hidden beneath big ego of "men are supposed to be having A, not wives"; "how can she call quits"; or simply "how can she not just love me anymore". For women, it is sometimes more of the fear of what will happen to them if the security blanket is just pulled away.

 

I think that one of the reasons why a BS is required to do sooooo much of the relationship work in reconciling a marriage is that the BS is NOT the one who's f*cked up in their head!

 

In many cases, the WS has some serious problems going on emotionally. That's how they ended up rationalizing the thought process that allows them to go outside the marriage to begin with.

 

In my husband's case, he was battling with medical problems, depression, and mid-life crisis. He had let all of that get ahead of him....and he was floundering to the extent that he no longer viewed his circumstances with clarity anymore. He was in a fog.....a dream that was quickly becoming a nightmare.

 

Affairs are a bit of excitement....dopamine provided to a brain who is starved of good feelings.

 

The truly remorseful WS who steps out of that fog, awakens to a world in which he cannot believe he acted soooo badly. He can't identify with the person he was while he was "in the fog".

 

When you observe toddlers at play and one child bites another....it's often the child who did the biting that needs the most comfort.

 

I do agree with you that initially a WS might return to the marriage for all the financial and security issues that you mentioned above. I believe that oftentimes those WS's are still "in the fog". They are open to the possibility that they might find whatever it is that they need at home...but they aren't sold yet. They're hedging their bets.

 

When finally given whatever it was that they needed emotionally before they committed the transgression, these WS's may at last "awaken". Too often though, they are knee-deep in a toxic environment that they have, themselves, created....and the marriage won't be saved.

 

Many women here have reported that OM doesn't want to leave his family, but then still continues to see them. Same thing for women who have cheated their husbands. Even after agreeing to NC, I can bet my life that not a single women would have adhered to it 100%. Simply because for women, the A is always too much emotional than physical. It has gotten too much into their minds to simply shrug it off. Sooner or later, it rears its ugly head. They cannot forget it because they had a wonderful time and that they were kind of semi-forced to give it up ("either OM/OW or our Marriage.."). Don't get me wrong. It is not that they don't realize it is/was a big mistake crossing the lines or how much they feel for hurting their spouses. But because of lack of consequential action, they feel tempted to reopen the burried skeletons. I have heard it so many time "we know it is bad, but we couldn't control it ....". WS have recheated their BS, even while going to MC and affirming again and again that they want their Marriage to work and are giving 100% of their commitment. Simply why ?

 

The majority of affairs are emotional for men too. And most WS's, regardless of gender, do backslide when trying to separate themselves from the affair partner.

 

It comes down to TRUST and acceptance. For the BS, they often feel that if there aren't any consequences, and if the offending partner is not punished to the extent that they will NEVER cheat again....there's no guarantee that they won't indeed cheat again.

 

But, the flaw in that thinking is that NO ONE can get that kind of guarantee in a relationship, not even if your spouse has ALWAYS been faithful. Life doesn't work like that.

 

People aren't perfect. If your partner messes up because he's in a state of emotional chaos....he's NOT going to magically pull himself together and fly right.

 

The BS has to be willing to accept this less-than-perfect person back into their lives, and to deal with the almost certain knowledge that the WS is going to mess up again before they finally get it right. Daunting, I know.

 

But after a time, it IS possible to trust again. For the WS who successfully EARNS their way back to the relationship, it is deserved. You can't keep a person in the doghouse ALL of their lives. You can't offer forgiveness in one hand, then withhold TRUST indefinately. It's not fair to wrap your fist around your trust and hold it behind your back forever out of reach. That's not much of a marriage for either partner.

 

I read this on another thread, here at LS:

 

Originally posted by Meanon....

Often we think of love as a noun. The absence of the feeling in turn prevents us feeling another's love even if we know it's there. Love is also a verb. If there is a chance for the feeling to return it will happen in the tending to another's needs, in making sacrifices for them, in protecting them. Think of the feeling of love we have for our children. Parents don't always feel instant love for a child when it's born, yet they feel it soon enough when they care for the child's needs.

 

That got me to thinking.... If we can look at love as a verb, an action.... can't the same be said of trust? Can't we choose to actively trust? Can't we remind ourselves DAILY that we are making a choice to do that?

 

It becomes a matter of faith at that point. Not in my partner, but rather in ME. I have no guarantee that I won't be hurt again, no one does, but I TRUST in an active way. I have faith in the fact that if my trust is unrewarded, I'll be okay. And I'll cross that bridge if I come to it.....and not before. I can't forecast the future, so why spend ALL that energy worrying about it?

 

That puts ME back in control. I don't worry about what my partner might do someday. I don't box with shadows. And I don't set up circumstances which will, in time, become self-defeating due to my own negativity.

 

You may happen to rekindle your married life, start dating your spouses again, shower her with affection, try to understand her better, but for how long ? The married life has its own stresses. However hard you try, you cannot keep the attraction and affection 24/7. There are not that many fireworks in a commited married life. People still yearn for their first love 20 years back, because what they have in their current life is not attractive anymore. The attraction to forbidden was always there, add to it the boredom of marriage and most importantly getting off the hook the first time. (The only way it would work is when WS is content with whatever he/she has and looks for happiness within themselves, which is a very rare occurence. If they had that kind of thinking, then again they would never had an A....)

 

I think this comes back to the WS often being in a state of emotional turmoil. And possibly, not having a meaningful understanding of what LOVE truly is?

 

There's a BIG difference between love and infatuation. While love most often starts with infatuation for the other person, the difference is that love GROWS. Infatuation is only the seed. It must fade after a time, and some people NEVER understand the difference.

 

Love, itself, is so very difficult to define. For me, it is comfort, care, nurture. It's occasional bursts of excitement, but for the most part it's a safe haven. Being at home when in the company of your partner, rather than cast adrift in the storm.

 

It's when that person is part of you, integral. Like your own children, in that your world is not quite complete without them.

 

People who buy into infatuation as their personal definition of love, will find themselves changing partners every couple of years in a desperate and constant search for LOVE, never recognizing it when they find it.

 

That's sad, but it's not something that one person can decide for another. Each must define LOVE in their own way.

 

So you have a situation where you are in a marriage where things will never be the same, where trust, love, attraction, affection has taken a huge dive. Your self esteem is low. You are hopelessly looking for love from your spouse. You cannot indulge in extra marital affairs yourself because of your own reasoning and thinking and how hurt you felt. And when you think everything is working perfect, they may be re-cheating, just that little bit extra careful this time. Is it all worth ...? Lot of them would say here that if you cannot trust your WS, then you are not giving a fair chance. True. But how many WS here would say that they repaid the faith shown to them by their spouses, by being 100% loyal and honest to them.......?

 

In answer to if it's all worth it, I have to say that I've learned soooo much from this experience....I would never want to go back to what I had before.

 

I can't lie and say that I don't have occasional bursts of temper, when things aren't going my way. At those times, I'm like "WTF was I thinking? I could have kicked him to the curb and got my ass out of here!"

 

But I recognize that as 'stinking-thinking', and ALWAYS due to my own mood du jour.

 

Overall, I'd say the 'true reconciliation' is a NEW DEAL. The old contract is irretrievably broken by infidelity. The new contract is the one that counts, if you still want to be together. More than likely, your partner had other lovers before you married. The 'new contract' allows you to put them in the past, much as you did the first time.

 

In that respect, the slate must be wiped clean. It's difficult to do that when you've been wronged. In the beginning, you have to remind yourself DAILY that you have freely elected 'forgiveness'. After a time, you only have to occasionally remind yourself of this....because it becomes a habit.

 

It works well when it's mutual. It fails, no matter what you do, when it's not.

 

But for the sake of giving the marriage it's ONLY chance at survival....all you can do is put yourself out there, and do what YOU can do.

[TMCM]

So you have a situation where you are in a marriage where things will never be the same, where trust, love, attraction, affection has taken a huge dive. Your self esteem is low. You are hopelessly looking for love from your spouse. You cannot indulge in extra marital affairs yourself because of your own reasoning and thinking and how hurt you felt. And when you think everything is working perfect, they may be re-cheating, just that little bit extra careful this time. Is it all worth ...?

 

By your own admission, things were not great in your marriage prior to your W's affair, so why would you want to go back to the ways things were? Affair or no, if a marriage is to emerge from the ashes, then it must be a much more happier and healthier one that preceded it. Can this be achieved in your marriage? Only you and your W can answer that, so do some serious soul searching before you make a life altering decision for no matter what the outcome of your marriage turns out to be, you will have to live with said decision for the rest of your life.

 

Lot of them would say here that if you cannot trust your WS, then you are not giving a fair chance. True. But how many WS here would say that they repaid the faith shown to them by their spouses, by being 100% loyal and honest to them.......?

 

I can't speak for WS, but on the issue of trust I can say that trust, once broken, can only be given back to the betrayer AFTER he/she has earned it. The reason is that if the betrayer didn't appreciate the trust freely given to him/her the first time, why should the betrayed give it again so easily like the first time? That would be insanity. But if the betrayer earns his/her betrayed spouses's trust, then BOTH of them benefit. The earning of the trust makes both worthy of each other. A Win/Win situation.

 

There is also the issue of trust in your own choices. In a way you may also have betrayed yourself when you ignored the huge, red flags that were waving in front of your face prior to you marrying your W. To me this is a bigger issue for unlike holding my W accountable, how do I make myself accountable?

[jacquelyn]

Wow LadyJane14, I couldn't have said all that better myself if I tried my hardest.

[only1life]

I don't think you can generalize about any of our situations - each has to be considered for all the conditions which exist and existed before the A.

 

In my case, OK, it's only been about 1 year since d-day, but we're still together, and I've got to say, are better than before. Even better than back 25 years ago when we were newlyweds, because of how much we each know each other so much better. No, I don't think it was all worth it, and yes, I wish she would have come to me and said "we've got problems we need to deal with" before she went out and found someone else to make her feel good. So when d-day came along, and the truth began to be told, either one of us could have walked out, but we talked and decided that what we had in the past was worth working to regain again, so that's where we are. She's made every effort to make me feel better, is very considerate of my feelings now that she has realized how she hurt them, and I do the same for her. I feel that I've given her a second chance, partly because that is what I would want of her, if the situation was reversed.

 

But the biggest improvement is that we now feel we are able to discuss our feelings so much more intimately than before, and we promise that when one of us has a concern about something, we talk about it and try to correct it, because we know that correcting the problem will make things better for both of us.

 

I don't feel that I "let her get away with it" the first time, and I don't feel any less a person for forgiving her. She knows it has not been easy (that's for sure!) for me. And I know it hasn't been easy for her, altho in a different way. No, things will never be the same, things won't ever be forgotten, but that's certainly no reason to not try and enjoy life together. After all, we had a lot of great years together, I would really like to have a lot more great years together.

 

Each situation is different, just as each of us is different.