Are these signs of cheating?

[MissMissy]

A couple of months ago my fiance and I ended our 6 year relationship. Although I said I was done first, after more discussion it became clear that it was pretty much a mutual decision. The reasons were not because of cheating, but now that I'm out of the relationship, I'm thinking about some things that happened over the years that I think I swept under the rug because I didn't want to think that he could have been cheating. I'm curious to see what others think about some of these situations and whether they were signs of cheating, or whether his excuses were believable. Although it doesn't really matter now since we're not together, it does make me concerned that I turned a blind eye, and I want to understand why I would do this. Anyway, here are some examples:

 

He started grooming himself when he didn't use to do anything. First he claimed it was because he started cycling and the hair down there was bothering him, but after he stopped cycling, he said he was doing it for me. He had never asked me what I prefer.

 

One evening I saw him taking a pill, but he was obviously trying to not let me see. I finally got him to admit that it was Viagra, and that he had gotten a prescription from the doctor at his regular checkup just out of curiosity. He said he didn't tell me because he was embarrassed. He was keeping the pills in the car, and claimed he had already taken one just to test on himself because he was curious what it would do, and had already taken one with me but hadn't told me. Does that make any sense? Would a guy waste a Viagra to masturbate?

 

We both had our relationship status on Facebook as engaged to each other. One day I noticed that his did not say he was engaged to me any longer. He claimed he had no idea how it happened, and when he looked at it, the setting was changed so that only he could see that he was engaged, but his friends could not see it. He just kept saying he didn't know how it happened (I did think that possibly his daughter could have done it, because she didn't like me, but I'm not convinced she did).

 

I never checked his phone, but one day it was out and for some reason the screen hadn't gone dark so I could see the list of people he had texted. There was a woman's name on there that I didn't know. So I asked him who she was. His response -"my friend." After much prodding, he told me that he had met her at a restaurant that he went to often for lunch, and they had lunch together sometimes. He would not show me the texts until he looked at them first and said it was because they "sometimes talk about other things." He would never explain what that meant and swore up and down that they were just friends and he wanted me to meet her. The texts that he showed me were him asking her if she was working that day, her responding yes, and him saying that he wanted to meet her boyfriend and her refusing. As I'm writing this now, I'm feeling like an idiot that I'm even wondering whether something was going on.

 

There are more things, but I'll just leave it at this for now because I am pretty sure what the responses will be. I did go for STD testing because of my suspicions and I'm fine.

[NTV]

Yes those are all red flags.

 

And no way would I take viagra just to shake myself loose.

 

I might get some for a prank though. Or if I thought I wasn't performing well enough for my partner.

[MissMissy]

Yes those are all red flags.

 

And no way would I take viagra just to shake myself loose.

 

I might get some for a prank though. Or if I thought I wasn't performing well enough for my partner.

 

We weren't having any problems in that area. I can understand that maybe he was curious to see what it was like, but then why wouldn't he just tell me? And why would he hide it in the car and take one just to test it on himself?

[MissMissy]

We weren't having any problems in that area. I can understand that maybe he was curious to see what it was like, but then why wouldn't he just tell me? And why would he hide it in the car and take one just to test it on himself?

 

I'm basically asking these questions rhetorically because I don't really believe this is what he was doing. But I'm not sure why he would need Viagra for someone else either.

[NTV]

If I were seeing two or more women and my body couldn't keep up with my desire. ...

[viatori patuit]

The viagra is cheating. There is no way a guy would take that and not have sex. The stuff works to the point of discomfort if not used. If he was taking it for a wild night of sex with you ok, but to test it? BS.

[MissMissy]

I just read on another thread that a woman suspected her H of an affair because he had scratches on his shoulder (one of her reasons to suspect him). That made me remember that for a period of time my ex often had scratches on his back and butt. He claimed he did it himself because his skin was dry and itchy. I have dry skin too, but I never scratch myself to the point that it leaves marks. Ugh, I feel like an idiot.

 

If he was getting erotic massages, would they scratch his back like that if it was something he requested? I have reason to believe that he got these massages (I know for a fact that he did once, and if he did it once, I'm sure there were other times).

[beatcuff]

OP, what is your end game? the R is over, you ended it. are you attempting to rewrite history so your guilt over ending it is eased? and why should you, you stated it was mutual - so he would have ended eventually anyhow. if this is not a case of --- move on...

 

as for the viagra, you stated he already took it once for you (without your knowledge). and caught him this time (maybe he thought it 'was the night'; you realize it takes sometime to get going). ED is, hugely embarrassing. not only could it be considered 'not being a man' --- it can cause a bigger issue with the R: he can't 'get it up'; so you start wondering out loud -- is he cheating, do i not turn him on... the crushing experience is now a full fledged fight. Crap, now you will tell your mother.

[Spring23]

So I asked him who she was. His response -"my friend." After much prodding, he told me that he had met her at a restaurant that he went to often for lunch, and they had lunch together sometimes. He would not show me the texts until he looked at them first and said it was because they "sometimes talk about other things." He would never explain what that meant and swore up and down that they were just friends and he wanted me to meet her.

 

Any time a man says: "We're just friends." You can bet that he's lying.

[somanymistakes]

Any time a man says: "We're just friends." You can bet that he's lying.

 

In the context of partners suspecting something's up, quite often if they're suspicious it's because an unusual amount of time is being spent together and at the very least an emotional attachment is brewing (though not always a full physical affair, at least not yet).

 

Let's not be too harsh on declaring that all men are cheats and liars.

[MissMissy]

OP, what is your end game? the R is over, you ended it. are you attempting to rewrite history so your guilt over ending it is eased? and why should you, you stated it was mutual - so he would have ended eventually anyhow. if this is not a case of --- move on...

 

I think I'm doing this for two reasons. First, to convince myself that ending the relationship was the right decision and to ease my sadness. Because the other issues I think maybe we could have worked on, but not cheating. But second, I'm a little worried that I might have knowingly overlooked so many cheating red flags, probably because I didn't want to end up alone. I'm concerned that I could do this again in another relationship, and I'm trying to understand just how much I swept under the rug. I don't know if that even makes sense, but I feel like I don't trust myself to follow my instincts, or that I even can trust my instincts. I'm not young (I'm in my 40s) so I should know better.

Edited April 8, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix quote

[Try]

So I asked him who she was. His response -"my friend." After much prodding, he told me that he had met her at a restaurant that he went to often for lunch, and they had lunch together sometimes. He would not show me the texts until he looked at them first and said it was because they "sometimes talk about other things." He would never explain what that meant and swore up and down that they were just friends and he wanted me to meet her. The texts that he showed me were him asking her if she was working that day, her responding yes, and him saying that he wanted to meet her boyfriend and her refusing. As I'm writing this now, I'm feeling like an idiot that I'm even wondering whether something was going on..

He met another woman and started secretly going on lunch dates with her. Since they were not coworkers that might be talking about work matters, him not showing you texts until he deleted ones that showed that they "sometimes talk about other things" is an admission that they were talking as more than just friends. Her not wanting to introduce him to her boyfriend, confirms that she was secretly seeing him behind her boyfriend's back. Yes you should feel like an idiot for even questioning if something was going on between them, of course there was.

 

BTW, subconsciously the reason that you wanted to end the relationship was because something had changed in your relationship and how he treated you, since he already was in a relationship with someone else.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Try

[Spring23]

In the context of partners suspecting something's up, quite often if they're suspicious it's because an unusual amount of time is being spent together and at the very least an emotional attachment is brewing (though not always a full physical affair, at least not yet).

 

Let's not be too harsh on declaring that all men are cheats and liars.

 

I don't think men are liars. But I don't think that men and women can really be "just friends," unless one is gay. TBH it's not natural.

 

I'm not young (I'm in my 40s) so I should know better.

 

I'm in my 40's too and I just beginning to understand how life works so don't be too hard on yourself.

Edited April 8, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Merge

[somanymistakes]

I don't think men are liars. But I don't think that men and women can really be "just friends," unless one is gay. TBH it's not natural.

 

This is silly, I've often had friends that were male.

 

Does that mean bisexual people can never have friends ever?

[Spring23]

This is silly, I've often had friends that were male.

 

Does that mean bisexual people can never have friends ever?

 

It's really not silly at all there's a book written about it. "Not just friends." I'm not bisexual so I have no idea how that would work.

 

I've never met a man who wanted to be "my friend" who didn't want to sleep with me. I'm not talking about a causal person you bump into. I'm talking about the guys who thought it would be fun to "go to lunch" together and chat on the phone.

[BuddyX]

Spring is dead on.

Ladies, if you ask him to grab coffee and all you want coffee then you are wasting his time. He's assumption will be quite obvious. Don't be naive.

[MissMissy]

I'm in my 40's too and I just beginning to understand how life works so don't be too hard on yourself.

 

Thanks. The real problem, I think, is not that I didn't know that there was a problem, but that I chose to ignore it. I'm not sure how to fix this about myself.

[MissMissy]

It's really not silly at all there's a book written about it. "Not just friends." I'm not bisexual so I have no idea how that would work.

 

I've never met a man who wanted to be "my friend" who didn't want to sleep with me. I'm not talking about a causal person you bump into. I'm talking about the guys who thought it would be fun to "go to lunch" together and chat on the phone.

 

Yeah it is weird. I have male friends, but we became friends through circumstances, like work or school. The fact that my ex had this friend that I didn't know even existed, and with whom he texted and hung out with, is really bad. He is super outgoing and would always tell me about the people he met while he was out and about, yet he never mentioned her. And he wasn't friends with her on facebook, even though I could tell he had looked at her profile. Which is another way he was keeping her secret from me. I also never told people IRL about these things, because I knew what they would tell me. I just didn't want to believe it.

[carhill]

So, OP, a couple months hence, any stilettos parked at his door or marked changes in the social media you and he apparently shared for a long time?

 

I ask because, if cheating was the deal, and there's no marriage to dissolve (thank goodness) no reason to be secretive. Is he dating the lady who was in the phone?

 

If he's dating the lady in the phone, the one who was a 'friend', there's your sign.

 

Overall though, I think you handled it well. You noted changes, got his explanations and made your own decision for yourself by your perceptions and boundaries.

 

That stated, if you do someday get married, you and your spouse will likely have or develop non-romantic relationships with members of your sexual preference. Communicating boundaries and working as a team is what adds those valuable relationships to your social circle and support and care milieu.

 

Had your fiance been open about his friend, demonstrated the nature of the friendship as supportive of your engagement and future marriage, inquired about your boundaries and included you in the breadth of his social life, things may have turned out differently. Perhaps this experience is a good time to establish what boundaries you prefer for such friendships and how you communicate them during the next incidence of such relations. IMO, it will happen again, and perhaps for yourself as well. Sorry the engagement didn't work out and best wishes for future success.

[MissMissy]

So, OP, a couple months hence, any stilettos parked at his door or marked changes in the social media you and he apparently shared for a long time?

 

I ask because, if cheating was the deal, and there's no marriage to dissolve (thank goodness) no reason to be secretive. Is he dating the lady who was in the phone?

 

If he's dating the lady in the phone, the one who was a 'friend', there's your sign.

 

Overall though, I think you handled it well. You noted changes, got his explanations and made your own decision for yourself by your perceptions and boundaries.

 

That stated, if you do someday get married, you and your spouse will likely have or develop non-romantic relationships with members of your sexual preference. Communicating boundaries and working as a team is what adds those valuable relationships to your social circle and support and care milieu.

 

Had your fiance been open about his friend, demonstrated the nature of the friendship as supportive of your engagement and future marriage, inquired about your boundaries and included you in the breadth of his social life, things may have turned out differently. Perhaps this experience is a good time to establish what boundaries you prefer for such friendships and how you communicate them during the next incidence of such relations. IMO, it will happen again, and perhaps for yourself as well. Sorry the engagement didn't work out and best wishes for future success.

 

I'm not on any social media with my ex, as I've unfriended/unfollowed him on everything, so I really have no idea what he's up to. We unfortunately have a house to sell so we will have to be in contact for the next couple of months, but we already agreed to not discuss our dating lives because I don't want to know, and he doesn't want to know. You're right that in any future relationship there will have to be discussion and agreement about friends of the opposite sex. I am not opposed to friendships, but I am opposed to secret friendships with texts that need to be deleted. Thank you for your well wishes.

[Spring23]

I'm not on any social media with my ex, as I've unfriended/unfollowed him on everything, so I really have no idea what he's up to. We unfortunately have a house to sell so we will have to be in contact for the next couple of months, but we already agreed to not discuss our dating lives because I don't want to know, and he doesn't want to know. You're right that in any future relationship there will have to be discussion and agreement about friends of the opposite sex. I am not opposed to friendships, but I am opposed to secret friendships with texts that need to be deleted. Thank you for your well wishes.

 

Next time you'll know better. Good rule of thumb is to only make good friends with the same sex. It makes life easier.

[Overtaxed]

It's really not silly at all there's a book written about it. "Not just friends." I'm not bisexual so I have no idea how that would work.

 

I've never met a man who wanted to be "my friend" who didn't want to sleep with me. I'm not talking about a causal person you bump into. I'm talking about the guys who thought it would be fun to "go to lunch" together and chat on the phone.

 

Spring is dead on.

Ladies, if you ask him to grab coffee and all you want coffee then you are wasting his time. He's assumption will be quite obvious. Don't be naive.

 

Yes, Spring is dead on, as are you BuddyX. Men do not, in general, want to build a friendship with a woman who's of appropriate age and with equivalent (or higher) sex appeal. It just does not happen, there's always an undertone of sexual chemistry there and there's nothing that any of us can do to change that (other than not get into that type of "friendship" in the first place). There are something like 3.5 billion members of our species that are the same sex as you, choose them for friends, not the 3.5 billion of the opposite sex. Doesn't mean you have to be a total killjoy, but eating or drinking 1-1 with a member of the opposite sex is like putting up a huge flag that says "I'd like to have sex with you". If it's a work function and there are lots of people there, it's different. But "grabbing lunch" with an opposite sex co-worker who's about your age/attractiveness is going to say (to any man who has any experience with women), "I'd like to sleep with you".

[Spring23]

Yes, Spring is dead on, as are you BuddyX. Men do not, in general, want to build a friendship with a woman who's of appropriate age and with equivalent (or higher) sex appeal. It just does not happen, there's always an undertone of sexual chemistry there and there's nothing that any of us can do to change that (other than not get into that type of "friendship" in the first place). There are something like 3.5 billion members of our species that are the same sex as you, choose them for friends, not the 3.5 billion of the opposite sex. Doesn't mean you have to be a total killjoy, but eating or drinking 1-1 with a member of the opposite sex is like putting up a huge flag that says "I'd like to have sex with you". If it's a work function and there are lots of people there, it's different. But "grabbing lunch" with an opposite sex co-worker who's about your age/attractiveness is going to say (to any man who has any experience with women), "I'd like to sleep with you".

 

Yep. I always know if a man is attracted to me. You can tell, it's in their face, their body language and if they want to get me alone so they can "chat" with me it's obvious the real intention. That is why I don't find male "friendships" comfortable. It's fine in a group situation but don't ask me for my email so you can "send me something I'll find interesting." LOL