definitely over with MM [UPDATED: Just Friends?? Or impossible?]

[stillafool]

Maybe another OW is contacting the wife.

[lostgirl87]

Except you HAVE talked to him.

 

And if you were afraid of legal issues, then you should know that contacting her wpuld be an issue. You would stay away. Completely from her. Now she has you calling her. Phone records can prove that. If it isn't true, then she would have no proof of contact. You then gave it to her.

 

Don't let your emotions cloud your judgement here.

We talked once but are not continually speaking. And I didn't tell her that and I have no desire to tell her that. Her husband called me. She can take that up with him.

 

Well that's exactly my point: I'm not contacting her. I have done that twice but she is claiming that I am continuously harassing her. When I have, it's been clear that it's me and from my number. I want phone records to prove it b/c it will show that I am not harassing her. If she weren't making it up and if he wouldn't have called me to question or accuse me of harassing someone, I wouldn't have said anything to her b/c I have nothing to say to her. Being a BS doesnt give you a pass to make up stories. And I will not continue to punish myself and allow these types of things to be said about me and I will not tolerate this treatment. I am allowed to defend myself despite whatever mistake I made. I have owned every wrongdoing of mine but I won't allow anyone to use me as a punching bag b/c they can't address their issues correctly. If she wants answers and to know if he is talking to me then she needs to ask him. If she can't believe him then maybe she needs to reevaluate her decision to stay with him. I've been out. He and I haven't seen each other and other than the closure talk we had a while ago, we've had no contact. Her problem is her husband. Not me anymore.

[lostgirl87]

Maybe another OW is contacting the wife.

I don't think so. She claimed it was me (by name) that was contacting her. And using old facts as new ones to make it more plausible. She has 2 reasons for doing this: 1) she doesn't believe that he and I aren't speaking which sounds like she needs to reevaluate her decision to stay and 2) she wants to make sure she paints me in the worst light to guarantee that he never talks to me again.

[sandylee1]

You do realise that by having an affair with a MM, you brought all this on yourself don't you.

 

You say he won't leave you alone, but you really don't want him to leave you alone. If he came to you tomorrow and said he'd left her and wants to be with you, you'd have him. So you ought to be honest with yourself.

 

It's just way too much drama and your willpower is not there, otherwise you wouldn't need to report him to his wife to leave you alone.

 

Howabout telling him any further contact will result in a restraining order? I'm guessing that would end any chance of a relationship with him and you are still living in hope.

[lostgirl87]

You do realise that by having an affair with a MM, you brought all this on yourself don't you.

 

You say he won't leave you alone, but you really don't want him to leave you alone. If he came to you tomorrow and said he'd left her and wants to be with you, you'd have him. So you ought to be honest with yourself.

 

It's just way too much drama and your willpower is not there, otherwise you wouldn't need to report him to his wife to leave you alone.

 

Howabout telling him any further contact will result in a restraining order? I'm guessing that would end any chance of a relationship with him and you are still living in hope.

I don't think that my relationship with him justifies made up stories that if believed could result in me being seen as a stalker.. Sorry, BSs out there, I won't accept that no matter what I did.

 

I don't think I have ever denied loving him and wanting to be with him if he were single so I don't know what point you are trying to make with that statement. I have also been very honest about how weak I am b/c I do still love him.

 

A restraining order is not a joke. You don't get a restraining order against someone for a handful of calls. You have to prove continued harassing and stalking and in our jurisdiction, that the person needs protection from additional stalking. Based on the definition of stalking and the elements that must be met for a protective order, our situation nowhere near even qualifies for that.

[Starswillshine]

Like I said, OW tried this tactic. Not say you are doing this as you would have no reason to tell this story on here.

 

She nonstop would try to let me know they will still talking. (They were) and when he would confront hee about it, she would claim I was crazy. When I knew for certain.... and when I realized what was going on, I started keeping proof. It was ridiculous to even claim that I was trying to make up crap. Because yeah, sure, I want to make up crap that my husband is still involved with the other woman? What sense that would make when I am trying to reconcile my marriage? None, zero. Whether she is crazy or not is irrelevant to my marriage.

[Birdies]

I have experience with an emotionally unstable BW making up exorbitant insane claims to try to exact revenge. It's not fun. We do have to accept that by becoming a third person in a marriage and helping push the wife off the deep end into loonyville (although in my case she was already there well before the affair), we are kind of getting...... well, if not what we actually deserve, something that we can't be too self-righteously upset about.

 

That said, I would block MM and his wife from all forms of communication. There is nothing good to come from talking to either of them, now. By answering him when he calls, you are just continuing the cycle. You're giving him reason to believe that you're still emotionally involved in the affair and that you likely could be doing the harassing. Become the Ice Queen. Not your circus, not your monkeys. Let them figure their own drama out.

[lostgirl87]

Like I said, OW tried this tactic. Not say you are doing this as you would have no reason to tell this story on here.

 

She nonstop would try to let me know they will still talking. (They were) and when he would confront hee about it, she would claim I was crazy. When I knew for certain.... and when I realized what was going on, I started keeping proof. It was ridiculous to even claim that I was trying to make up crap. Because yeah, sure, I want to make up crap that my husband is still involved with the other woman? What sense that would make when I am trying to reconcile my marriage? None, zero. Whether she is crazy or not is irrelevant to my marriage.

I get what you're saying and I'm sorry that happened but in this case, the wife really is the one making things up. The reason it makes sense is b/c she doesn't believe her husband and she thinks that by saying that I am contacting her and telling her I'm still involved with him that it will make him confess to her AND it will make me look crazy which would result in him protecting her and hating me.

 

She has no support system b/c she hasn't told anyone. They are living at her parents' house so they can't even fight about this. They are walking around pretending everything is normal. She doesn't know how to handle this and is overwhelmed and doing these ridiculous things b/c she doesn't know how to deal with it all. She can't trust him and can't trust me, obviously. She is trying to find her own way to get to the "truth" and its backfiring. She didn't think hed call me and didn't expect me to know or reassure her that it wasn't true. I get that she is going through a hard time but they need to sort it out themselves and not make up conversations with me.

[Birdies]

She doesn't know how to handle this and is overwhelmed and doing these ridiculous things b/c she doesn't know how to deal with it all. She can't trust him and can't trust me, obviously. She is trying to find her own way to get to the "truth" and its backfiring. She didn't think hed call me and didn't expect me to know or reassure her that it wasn't true. I get that she is going through a hard time but they need to sort it out themselves and not make up conversations with me.

 

I mean, he lied to her and gaslit her for a long time even AFTER she found out about you, as the two of you kept meeting up after he said you were over. You can't really blame her for resorting to anything and everything to try to get the truth out of him. She doesn't owe you anything - she will throw you under the bus in a heartbeat to try to get to the bottom of what's going on in her marriage. Just like the BW in my case had no problem lying to my husband, my employers, mutual friends, the police, her own lawyer, the court system, etc. Once you become involved in such a reality-twisting betrayal, they have no reason to hold back. They don't owe you anything AND they're often emotionally unstable basket cases at this point (understandably). You would hope that they act like decent human beings, but that's often asking too much of someone in this situation.

 

Block them.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Birdies

[BTDT2012]

I don't think so. She claimed it was me (by name) that was contacting her. And using old facts as new ones to make it more plausible. She has 2 reasons for doing this: 1) she doesn't believe that he and I aren't speaking which sounds like she needs to reevaluate her decision to stay and 2) she wants to make sure she paints me in the worst light to guarantee that he never talks to me again.

Not your circus, not your monkeys.

[BTDT2012]

I get what you're saying and I'm sorry that happened but in this case, the wife really is the one making things up. The reason it makes sense is b/c she doesn't believe her husband and she thinks that by saying that I am contacting her and telling her I'm still involved with him that it will make him confess to her AND it will make me look crazy which would result in him protecting her and hating me.

 

She has no support system b/c she hasn't told anyone. They are living at her parents' house so they can't even fight about this. They are walking around pretending everything is normal. She doesn't know how to handle this and is overwhelmed and doing these ridiculous things b/c she doesn't know how to deal with it all. She can't trust him and can't trust me, obviously. She is trying to find her own way to get to the "truth" and its backfiring. She didn't think hed call me and didn't expect me to know or reassure her that it wasn't true. I get that she is going through a hard time but they need to sort it out themselves and not make up conversations with me.

He is protecting her. You don't know what she is thinking, or what he is telling her. All you did by calling her was confirm that the two of you are still in contact. For your own sanity and protection, BLOCK THEM BOTH.

[sandylee1]

I don't think that my relationship with him justifies made up stories that if believed could result in me being seen as a stalker.. Sorry, BSs out there, I won't accept that no matter what I did.

 

I don't think I have ever denied loving him and wanting to be with him if he were single so I don't know what point you are trying to make with that statement. I have also been very honest about how weak I am b/c I do still love him.

 

A restraining order is not a joke. You don't get a restraining order against someone for a handful of calls. You have to prove continued harassing and stalking and in our jurisdiction, that the person needs protection from additional stalking. Based on the definition of stalking and the elements that must be met for a protective order, our situation nowhere near even qualifies for that.

 

But you've asked him repeatedly to stop contacting you and he doesn't listen. He continues to contact you.

 

Isn't that harassment? Or is it that you really aren't serious when you tell him not to contact you?

 

I think you're being unrealistic to not expect (after all the lying and deceit she's faced), that she's not going to care how any alleged lies make you feel.

 

Why would she care about when you didn't.

And I recall saying this earlier... You didn't consider the impact of this on your career, which was a big mistake.

 

Let's assume she is lying for arguments sake... And you do all the investigations possible and prove it.

 

Then imaging the headlines in your local press..

 

"wife falsely accuses husband's lawyer mistress of stalking after affair continues"

 

Who do you think looks worse in that scenario?

 

Regardless of no sex since dday, contact has remained, so in her mind the affair continues.

 

I'm only trying to get you to see how this would or could be perceived by outsiders.

 

Anything I say here, isn't out of personal bitterness, it's giving you an objective view of the situation you find yourself in.

[sandylee1]

He is protecting her. You don't know what she is thinking, or what he is telling her. All you did by calling her was confirm that the two of you are still in contact. For your own sanity and protection, BLOCK THEM BOTH.

 

Absolutely.

 

She now knows he still contacts you want to because if he was NC, he wouldn't.

 

You confirmed her suspicions.

 

Everything he does shows that she (after himself) is his priority.

 

You analysing their marriage, living arrangements and ability to argue in peace of is wasted thoughts and energy for you.

 

It's very unhealthily and it's not possible to run away, once you've added fuel to the fire.

 

As a lawyer, I'm sure you're familiar with mitigating circumstances.

 

You should also know that unless she had proof you were harrasing her with the phone calls, a stalking claim would get nowhere.

 

If she's doing it, it's to test him... And he's failed miserably.

 

You phoning to say it wasn't you (on the off chance she is receiving calls) isn't really going to be believed as true, based on the fact that the very nature of your relationship with her husband revolves around lies and deception.

 

How can you really expect her to believe you, as her husband's OW.

[lostgirl87]

I'm not analyzing their marriage. I said all of that to express that I do understand why she's reacting this way. That she's going through a tough time.

 

She doesn't owe me anything. She can throw me under the bus and make up whatever she wants. I don't owe her anything either to be honest. I had a relationship with him while he was married to her. Sure, it was wrong. I'm not expecting her to care about me. I didn't pay any mind to her when I was with him so makes sense. I just don't want to know about it. I didn't want to be dragged back in and yes, in hindsight I shouldn't have answered the calls.

 

I don't care if I confirmed her suspicions. He should have thought about that before calling me and involving me when I had already walked away. I also don't care if he is failing her tests lol. I did what I needed to do which was walk away.

 

I don't need to be convinced that I'm some evil vile man-stealing whore b/c that's not what I am so y'all are wasting your typing trying to convince me that this is what I get and I need to tolerate all of this crazy behavior. I'm fine with the fact that I need to walk away and accept that he and I are over and he's staying with her for whatever reasons. But that's it. As long as I stay away and respect that decision from here on out, I'm doing what I need to be doing.

[BTDT2012]

I don't need to be convinced that I'm some evil vile man-stealing whore b/c that's not what I am so y'all are wasting your typing trying to convince me that this is what I get and I need to tolerate all of this crazy behavior.

 

A man (or woman for that matter) isn't a piece of property that can be stolen. Blocking all communication means you won't be subjected to any crazy behavior.

[Starswillshine]

I don't think anyone is saying you are some evil man stealing whore nor does anyone believe this.

[Birdies]

I don't need to be convinced that I'm some evil vile man-stealing whore b/c that's not what I am so y'all are wasting your typing trying to convince me that this is what I get and I need to tolerate all of this crazy behavior.

 

Uhhhh??? Literally no one is saying any of this to you. There is literally only supportive and helpful advice here, which is actually pretty remarkable for an OW/OM thread.

[lostgirl87]

I didn't say anyone called me that. I did get told that this is what I get for getting involved with a married man (in so many words) so that's what I was referring to. I realize there are consequences. I'm paying for it. I really am. I just draw the line at lies and threats that get communicated to me. That's all.

 

And y'all are correct- not answering is the only way to deal with it and will be what I do from now on.

[whichwayisup]

Well I do care if he hates me. More importantly, I'm concerned that her lies will get me into some kind of trouble. It's one thing if I am contacting her but when I haven't and I'm being painted as someone who is stalking or harassing another, that's a big deal.

 

But oh well, nothing I can do now.

 

Unfortunately, the fallout and what comes your way is just part of the consequence of having an A with a MM. You can't control what she does. Rise above it and ignore them both.

 

Also, when you are over him, you won't care either way if he hates you or not.

[Starswillshine]

I didn't say anyone called me that. I did get told that this is what I get for getting involved with a married man (in so many words) so that's what I was referring to. I realize there are consequences. I'm paying for it. I really am. I just draw the line at lies and threats that get communicated to me. That's all.

 

And y'all are correct- not answering is the only way to deal with it and will be what I do from now on.

 

It does become a consequence of being involved in an affair. Like it or not, you put yourself in the middle of their marriage. So here you are... dealing with drama. Nothing cam be undone.

 

You sent her husband a long email discussing your feelings for him. You say you have an app that says he opened it 6 times... how do you know it wasn't her?

 

Just like you want her to know you are not her enemy. You should also know, she isn't your enemy. You wrote how she sent you screenshots of him telling her he loved her, she wasn't sending you those to compete. She is sending those to you for you to see how it really is. She wants to know if he is telling you those things because she wants to know the real nature of your relationship. Perhaps to see if it aligns with what he tells her. What he says, what you say means Jack. You both are proven liars to her. The only thing is physical proof. You took it as a game. This is her life.

[HereNorThere]

Oh lostgirl, how did you get so lost?

 

I work with a lot of attorneys and somehow the majority of my friends are now attorneys including 4 ex girlfriends. There's one in particular that could literally write your entire story. I mean, it's uncanny how much you two have in common down to your age. When you said you play lame games on your iPad, my heart dropped because I was like "omg, if it's Words with Friends, that's definitely her" but your story was definitely different enough to infer that you're not. To describe her, she's a very gifted T14 graduate, former fed clerk that moved onto big law and wins major, major cases. She's kind of a big deal now. Anyway, two months into dating me she tells me the same basic story you have told us. She's a former OW, etc. OM worked with us. We're all workaholics, most of their relationship was cultivated on gchat/apps and lunches together, etc.

 

This was in 2012. We didn't date much longer after she told me. Like you, she was severely emotionally unavailable, had intimacy issues, history of short lived "almost" relationships, etc. It was really weird because we could for talk for 12 hours straight online but in person, she was very reserved and quiet. To this day, I'm still trying to figure her out. She definitely left her mark on me.

 

The day after we broke up, OM was back on her fb friends list. She works at a firm down the street from him now and I've never seen her post another guy or relationship. I'm pretty freaking sure that he's been keeping her on the hook this whole time. His Facebook? He's had another kid with his wife. They're all smiles, going camping, hiking, posting about Jesus and their family and being blessed and all that. I can tell there hasn't been a d-day or anything. He keeps her right where he wants her and she's so busy with work and using the small amount of free time she has to work around his selfish schedule, I don't think she ever escaped his orbit. It's really sad all around.

 

The thing is, there's something about you that isn't like her go though. You're a firecracker. You seem very emotive and good at expressing yourself. Girl, you have got to figure out a way to channel this energy into something positive. You have everything going for you in life. I have no doubt there's some guy out there that would worship the ground you walk on if you let him. You have to want it though. You've got to set the ball in motion and make those changes. Not just to your routine, but your personality as well. And I'm not an Internet white knight neckbeard, I promise. My mom even says I'm a catch.

 

I could talk for hours about OM and the dynamics behind all of that but at the end of the conversation we wouldn't have made any progress. What can we do to get you on the right path? How do we show you that you're worth more than than this predatory human garbage OM? I believe you are but how do I convince you? How can I show you that you deserve more than parking lot lunches and snapchats? That's where we need to point this thing. The rest of it is just feeding your obsession and it's not healthy. We've got to get you obsessed with getting better instead trying to logic this relationship. You can keep crunching the numbers but I PROMISE you, you'll never make sense of it all. For every bat sh*t crazy comment you've made throughout this thread, you've also made a lot of really positive, introspective ones. It's a roller coaster. You progress, regress, rinse, repeat. How do we get you going back on a straight line? I really, truly believe it is possible, and I'm a pretty jaded person. If I believe in you, there's definitely some potential there. I am not known for giving out accolades undeservedly.

 

Like I said earlier, I know attorneys. Of course they're all different but part of the job is setting aside your personal bias to work with the merits of the case and precedents you come across. Channel that skill and find your inner objectivity. On paper, this is really, really toxic stuff. You know it but you're letting your emotion get in the way. STOP.

Edited May 27, 2017 by HereNorThere

[MJJean]

I considered that. However she said that this person that is supposedly contacting her is me. That I'm telling her he and I are still seeing each other and speaking to each other. No one is contacting her- she's making it up. She thinks she's sneaky and will find out "the truth" this way and she wants him to hate me and see me as some crazy psycho.

 

Or a random other OW is contacting her anonymously and she THINKS it's you. If I didn't know my H had multiple other women, I'd assume the one contacting me was the one I knew about.

[lostgirl87]

Or a random other OW is contacting her anonymously and she THINKS it's you. If I didn't know my H had multiple other women, I'd assume the one contacting me was the one I knew about.

Yeah I also thought that was the case but she straight up said I contacted her and used facts I have previously given her to justify why it was me. Shes not getting mysterious calls and assuming it's me. Otherwise I would continue thinking it was someone else. Again, i know for a fact (now) that it was her making it up.

[lostgirl87]

Oh lostgirl, how did you get so lost?

 

I work with a lot of attorneys and somehow the majority of my friends are now attorneys including 4 ex girlfriends. There's one in particular that could literally write your entire story. I mean, it's uncanny how much you two have in common down to your age. When you said you play lame games on your iPad, my heart dropped because I was like "omg, if it's Words with Friends, that's definitely her" but your story was definitely different enough to infer that you're not. To describe her, she's a very gifted T14 graduate, former fed clerk that moved onto big law and wins major, major cases. She's kind of a big deal now. Anyway, two months into dating me she tells me the same basic story you have told us. She's a former OW, etc. OM worked with us. We're all workaholics, most of their relationship was cultivated on gchat/apps and lunches together, etc.

 

This was in 2012. We didn't date much longer after she told me. Like you, she was severely emotionally unavailable, had intimacy issues, history of short lived "almost" relationships, etc. It was really weird because we could for talk for 12 hours straight online but in person, she was very reserved and quiet. To this day, I'm still trying to figure her out. She definitely left her mark on me.

 

The day after we broke up, OM was back on her fb friends list. She works at a firm down the street from him now and I've never seen her post another guy or relationship. I'm pretty freaking sure that he's been keeping her on the hook this whole time. His Facebook? He's had another kid with his wife. They're all smiles, going camping, hiking, posting about Jesus and their family and being blessed and all that. I can tell there hasn't been a d-day or anything. He keeps her right where he wants her and she's so busy with work and using the small amount of free time she has to work around his selfish schedule, I don't think she ever escaped his orbit. It's really sad all around.

 

The thing is, there's something about you that isn't like her go though. You're a firecracker. You seem very emotive and good at expressing yourself. Girl, you have got to figure out a way to channel this energy into something positive. You have everything going for you in life. I have no doubt there's some guy out there that would worship the ground you walk on if you let him. You have to want it though. You've got to set the ball in motion and make those changes. Not just to your routine, but your personality as well. And I'm not an Internet white knight neckbeard, I promise. My mom even says I'm a catch.

 

I could talk for hours about OM and the dynamics behind all of that but at the end of the conversation we wouldn't have made any progress. What can we do to get you on the right path? How do we show you that you're worth more than than this predatory human garbage OM? I believe you are but how do I convince you? How can I show you that you deserve more than parking lot lunches and snapchats? That's where we need to point this thing. The rest of it is just feeding your obsession and it's not healthy. We've got to get you obsessed with getting better instead trying to logic this relationship. You can keep crunching the numbers but I PROMISE you, you'll never make sense of it all. For every bat sh*t crazy comment you've made throughout this thread, you've also made a lot of really positive, introspective ones. It's a roller coaster. You progress, regress, rinse, repeat. How do we get you going back on a straight line? I really, truly believe it is possible, and I'm a pretty jaded person. If I believe in you, there's definitely some potential there. I am not known for giving out accolades undeservedly.

 

Like I said earlier, I know attorneys. Of course they're all different but part of the job is setting aside your personal bias to work with the merits of the case and precedents you come across. Channel that skill and find your inner objectivity. On paper, this is really, really toxic stuff. You know it but you're letting your emotion get in the way. STOP.

Omg. You made me cry!! In a good way. Nobody here has written something so powerful and real. I can't even express how much I appreciate you taking the time to write this.

 

I read this while with friends enjoying the long weekend on the water. I met some new people and I remembered how attractive I am and how much men are "intrigued" by me. That's not to say I get my value from male attention but every now and then a little attention is a good thing. I have a long road ahead of me but my head is in the right place. It's only a matter of getting my emotions and heart to be in that same place. I know I will get there eventually.

 

Again, thank you for this wonderful comment. I have saved this to my phone and will read this whenever I'm having a weak moment. From the bottom of my heart, thank you!

[HereNorThere]

You're welcome. It was my pleasure.

 

We're all crowdsourcing and everyone here has mastered at least one thing but has deficits in others. I can show you how to leave a toxic relationship. I am an artist of the first date. I can't teach you how to trust again because that's why I'm here. I can't teach another guy how stop being a 30 something year old man-child, but I could show him to get date. He'll have to poke someone else for the knowledge to maintain a LTR.

 

Look, you fight this bastard one thought at a time. When you feel him creeping in, shut.it.down. I don't care if you have to say it out loud in front of everyone else, you say "NOT TODAY MOTHER****** YOU ARE NOT RUINING ANOTHER ONE OF MY DAYS! NOT NOW, NOT EVER!" and replace that thought with something better. Kittens usually works for me.

 

One thought at a time. You don't win the battle all at once. You gain ground, you lose some, you keep pressing forward. I'll let you get back to your weekend. Try to stay off your damn iPhone and live a little bit (no judgement from me if you need to post or vent, it's better than the alternative.) Don't let this crap keep pulling you down.

 

One thought at a time, lostgirl. You can do it. Hugs from Denver and godspeed.

 

*Another thing to save in your phone. You know, for emergencies. -> https://m.imgur.com/r/kittens/

Edited May 28, 2017 by HereNorThere