definitely over with MM [UPDATED: Just Friends?? Or impossible?]

[Starswillshine]

Jerk? What the hell is wrong with that? He can all the consenting women he wants..... that's THEIR business. He's not obligated.

 

 

I don't know.... I think a man who is lying to his wife. Trying to pretend to his wife that he is all in reconciling. And while lost knows the score, he is still keeping her hanging on....

 

Yeah, jerk is almost a compliment for this man.

[Blu72]

Seriously Lostgirl - in all honesty you are very delusional if you think you can be friends and won't fall back into an affair. And trust me, this is coming from someone who was delusional herself for 5+ years in my affair. I finally broke it off after 5+ years and it was extremely difficult.

 

Break this off now completely or you will be me in 5 years.

Please listen.

[jah526]

Agree with everyone else on here. I made an attempt at being friends just a few weeks ago. The problem was that he didn't really want that, and so the full-court press happened only a few days later and I caved. I think someone upthread said this - someone increases the pressure and then the other person gives in, maybe just a little, and before you know it, you are right back in a PA.

 

It really does suck when you finally realize that you can't be friends. It hurts badly to give that up, to extinguish those last remnants of hope in your heart. But it hurts worse to try to hold on to something that is so toxic.

[BaileyB]

Jerk? What the hell is wrong with that? He can all the consenting women he wants..... that's THEIR business. He's not obligated.

 

Yes, jerk! This is a man who is lying to his wife, has been engaged in numerous extramarital affairs, has made a false attempt at reconciliation, quit his affair with OP only to slide another woman into the position - another woman from the workplace, no less - and he continues to offer "friendship" probably with the full knowledge that OP will get sucked back into the affair.

 

Just because they are consenting adults doesn't make his behavior any more respectable. Yes, I would say that he is a total jerk and that is being kind...

 

And if I may, I believe that his wife would disagree with your statement... she would probably say that he was definitely obligated...

[lostgirl87]

I appreciate the good, helpful, considerate and tough advice. I really do.

 

But to clarify- I never said I was going to continue this friendship or that I was right and everyone else is wrong. I simply asked if anyone had any experience in that area. I asked if me, the OW, and him, the MM, could be friendly. As in, could we put our feelings aside and remain cordial. Instead what I got was attacked because people feel I should discontinue any communication with him for his wife's sake. Of course there's sense in that and I see where everyone is coming from. However, seeing as how I have no personal relationship with her, I don't think that should be my sole consideration on whether or not to be friends with MM. that's not what I was asking- I wanted actual experience trying to have a friendship with a former AP. That's all. If I wanted to be lectured on morality, I would have asked that.

 

Please, read ALL posts by me before telling me that I'm delusional for wanting a friendship despite what everyone says. I agreed to an extent. I didn't call myself delusional because I never said "y'all are wrong, it's totally possible and we are making it work". I described my situation and even said "hm yeah now that I'm writing this, it's clear us being friends would eventually take us right back to where we were and what I no longer want".

 

Thank you again to everyone who shared their personal experience of trying to be "friends" with a former AP.

[ClassyTaste]

Please try to look at it from a different perspective: You are the betrayed spouse (in her shoes). It is your husband or serious boyfriend who you found to be cheating on you. You still love him and want to reconcile. Are you going to allow your man to be friends with the other woman? Think of how passionate you are about this taken man, but it is your man in this scenario

 

You are a smart and have a fiery personality. I believe you would be coming up with some clever ways to investigate or make sure the friendship is not continuing. Emotional/friendship affairs are far more dangerous to a betrayed spouse than a physical one.

 

She is not your wife, but you have to consider others and put yourself in their shoes. She thinks about the affair all day. She hurts and has questions that she has no answers to. Of course she is going to investigate. Why not focus on a new passion, something different to take up, to take your mind off this.

 

Who knows if a friendship can work in the future, but the best advice that has been given is no, not under these circumstances.

[lostgirl87]

So over the last few weeks, some things have changed. He has told me that his marriage will not work but that he can't leave right away. I've heard this before so I wasn't phased by it at all. He actually met with a divorce attorney (referral from me from a while ago). Of course I don't know the ins and outs of that meeting but I do know he had a consult. I still haven't seen him and I won't until/unless there are some real changes. He says he needs a little time b/c he feels it is worse to leave her now b/c it will be for me and that will hurt her more than just separating b/c reconciliation isn't working. I said that's fine and I won't rush him or pressure him in any way but I also made it clear that I will continue dating and we will not be seeing each other. He understood.

 

Here's the kicker- I have a big birthday coming up later this year. My girlfriends and I have planned an amazing trip and I told him about it while half jokingly inviting him. Turns out, he wants to come and has already bought his and my airfare and paid for the resort. I got the confirmation email. So I guess worst case scenario is he doesn't make moves to actually leave but I get a good portion of my birthday trip paid for. I hate even saying that b/c I've never asked or taken anything from a man. I've taken care of myself just fine and would never use a man for free trips or fancy gifts. But if it's already paid for and he ends up not able to go, that's notneally my fault. I want to add that him paying for this and wanting to go away with me is HUGE. First, he doesn't make nearly as much money as I do so it's not like this is just another expense. This is a lot for him. Second, we've barely spent the night together and we have definitely never spent consecutive days together. So it's somewhat promising but with everything I've been through with him, I'm still very cautious.

 

So we shall see where things end up. I do still love him but I am dating and having fun. I'm not ready to be physical with someone new b/c I'm still a little beaten up from the last year and a half but I do enjoy going on dates and having fun with new, single men. Time will tell what happens!

Edited August 5, 2017 by lostgirl87

[BTDT2012]

Why in the world do you want him to intrude on your girls getaway? How far away is the trip? Are the tickets non-refundable?

[lostgirl87]

Why in the world do you want him to intrude on your girls getaway? How far away is the trip? Are the tickets non-refundable?

The tickets are non-refundable. We are going to Mexico and we live in the southern US.

 

He is only coming Friday to Sunday b/c he doesn't have vacation time. My friends and I will be there almost a week. 2 of my friends' SOs will be joining us at the end as well.

Edited August 5, 2017 by lostgirl87

[Birdies]

"Half jokingly inviting him".....either you're a really bad joke teller, or he is completely clueless, or (most likely) you "joked" that way hoping that he would come, and he accepted. Girl this is so awkward. He's still married. He might be married forever. Yet you two are planning on him coming on a birthday trip with you and your friends and their boyfriends?

 

You do realize that is the exact opposite of making him get off the fence and actually take some action if he wants to be with you, right? Or are you thinking this will be the extra motivation for him to get divorced? It's like you're bribing him to get a divorce. Even though he'd be paying for it.

 

Sorry to not be more supportive, and I'm not judging because I had an affair too, but this just seems really weird. The guy is married for Christ's sake, he's in false reconciliation with his wife already, and now you're planning a trip together?

 

I don't think I personally could ever trust someone like this who is SO unable to decide or commit to what he wants. And I'm in a relationship with my exMM, so obviously I'm not one of those "if he'll cheat with you, he'll cheat on you" people. But how long does he waffle about not knowing what to do but still keeping you on the hook, before you start to wonder if he's someone you can trust to be reliable and do what's necessary in life? I'd be there already, personally.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Birdies

[lostgirl87]

"Half jokingly inviting him".....either you're a really bad joke teller, or he is completely clueless, or (most likely) you "joked" that way hoping that he would come, and he accepted. Girl this is so awkward. He's still married. He might be married forever. Yet you two are planning on him coming on a birthday trip with you and your friends and their boyfriends?

 

You do realize that is the exact opposite of making him get off the fence and actually take some action if he wants to be with you, right? Or are you thinking this will be the extra motivation for him to get divorced? It's like you're bribing him to get a divorce. Even though he'd be paying for it.

 

Sorry to not be more supportive, and I'm not judging because I had an affair too, but this just seems really weird. The guy is married for Christ's sake, he's in false reconciliation with his wife already, and now you're planning a trip together?

 

I don't think I personally could ever trust someone like this who is SO unable to decide or commit to what he wants. And I'm in a relationship with my exMM, so obviously I'm not one of those "if he'll cheat with you, he'll cheat on you" people. But how long does he waffle about not knowing what to do but still keeping you on the hook, before you start to wonder if he's someone you can trust to be reliable and do what's necessary in life? I'd be there already, personally.

This trip is his way of showing me that he'll be filing by the time the trip comes to be. I think you have the wrong idea...

 

Thats why I said the worst case scenario is him not making the moves to leave and he ends up not coming but a big portion of my trip is already paid for. He won't be coming if he is still married b/c again, like I said, I won't even be seeing him in person until that happens.

Edited August 5, 2017 by lostgirl87

[elaine567]

This trip is his way of showing me that he'll be filing by the time the trip comes to be. I think you have the wrong idea...

 

Maybe he just needs to forget the "grand gesture" and the "drama" and just move out and file to show exactly how serious he is.

[lostgirl87]

Maybe he just needs to forget the "grand gesture" and the "drama" and just move out and file to show exactly how serious he is.

Obviously that's the most logical approach but he says he needs more time for whatever reason. I really am over questioning and prodding him which is why when he said he needed more time I said I'd heard that before and nothing would change. Then he did this. So am I convinced? Heck no. Not even close. If he wants to spend his money on this "grand gesture" that's on him. If he ends up not following through, that's also on him but I'll be vacationing with my friends so I'll be ok:)

[Birdies]

This trip is his way of showing me that he'll be filing by the time the trip comes to be. I think you have the wrong idea...

 

Thats why I said the worst case scenario is him not making the moves to leave and he ends up not coming but a big portion of my trip is already paid for. He won't be coming if he is still married b/c again, like I said, I won't even be seeing him in person until that happens.

 

Hmm, well at least this could serve as a mental deadline for you? If he loses a bunch of money because he still hasn't extricated himself, and still hasn't been honest with his wife, that's saying a lot.

 

I hope you do think about what I said about whether you want someone so - how to put it? - not ballsy for a long-term partner. Seeing how someone rises to the challenge of a very difficult and confusing situation, or fails to rise and waffles about, afraid of being decisive, says a lot. Again, I'm not judging and I say that as someone in a relationship with my own conflict-avoidant exMM. These are character traits that will not change, so you need to think about whether you could rely him in the ways you would need to through life's inherent challenges.

[lostgirl87]

Hmm, well at least this could serve as a mental deadline for you? If he loses a bunch of money because he still hasn't extricated himself, and still hasn't been honest with his wife, that's saying a lot.

 

I hope you do think about what I said about whether you want someone so - how to put it? - not ballsy for a long-term partner. Seeing how someone rises to the challenge of a very difficult and confusing situation, or fails to rise and waffles about, afraid of being decisive, says a lot. Again, I'm not judging and I say that as someone in a relationship with my own conflict-avoidant exMM. These are character traits that will not change, so you need to think about whether you could rely him in the ways you would need to through life's inherent challenges.

Definitely something that's been on my mind a lot. I believe that my "whatever- we will see what happens but I'll keep living my life" attitude is indicative of me slowly but surely becoming indifferent towards him or our potential future together. And I'm getting there b/c he has dragged this out for so long: an entire year-long affair, 2 DDays brought on by me (not my proudest moments), our current "friendship" and no PA that has been going on for another several months and we're still here.

 

This is dangerous territory for me to be in b/c I know myself and this means that I'm not too far from simply not caring at all. Am I there now? Nope. Or I wouldn't be considering all of this but I feel differently than I did 6 months ago where I was hanging on to every word and promise.

[Blanco]

Obviously that's the most logical approach but he says he needs more time for whatever reason.

 

Whatever reason = he doesn't really want to file

[lostgirl87]

Whatever reason = he doesn't really want to file

Well then at least I get a free trip

[Blanco]

And your friends are cool with a portion of your girls getaway being allocated to the married guy you're having an affair with?

[BaileyB]

So over the last few weeks, some things have changed. He has told me that his marriage will not work but that he can't leave right away. I've heard this before so I wasn't phased by it at all. He actually met with a divorce attorney (referral from me from a while ago). Of course I don't know the ins and outs of that meeting but I do know he had a consult. I still haven't seen him and I won't until/unless there are some real changes. He says he needs a little time b/c he feels it is worse to leave her now b/c it will be for me and that will hurt her more than just separating b/c reconciliation isn't working. I said that's fine and I won't rush him or pressure him in any way but I also made it clear that I will continue dating and we will not be seeing each other. He understood.

 

Here's the kicker- I have a big birthday coming up later this year. My girlfriends and I have planned an amazing trip and I told him about it while half jokingly inviting him. Turns out, he wants to come and has already bought his and my airfare and paid for the resort. I got the confirmation email. So I guess worst case scenario is he doesn't make moves to actually leave but I get a good portion of my birthday trip paid for. I hate even saying that b/c I've never asked or taken anything from a man. I've taken care of myself just fine and would never use a man for free trips or fancy gifts. But if it's already paid for and he ends up not able to go, that's notneally my fault. I want to add that him paying for this and wanting to go away with me is HUGE. First, he doesn't make nearly as much money as I do so it's not like this is just another expense. This is a lot for him. Second, we've barely spent the night together and we have definitely never spent consecutive days together. So it's somewhat promising but with everything I've been through with him, I'm still very cautious.

 

So we shall see where things end up. I do still love him but I am dating and having fun. I'm not ready to be physical with someone new b/c I'm still a little beaten up from the last year and a half but I do enjoy going on dates and having fun with new, single men. Time will tell what happens!

 

This makes me so sad... It's clear what you want to happen. Sadly, I fear that you are about to be disappointed, yet again...

 

If I was one of your girlfriends on this trip, I'd be pretty concerned for you and very unhappy with this whole situation... I do hope it works out for you.

Edited August 5, 2017 by BaileyB

[jenkins95]

Obviously that's the most logical approach but he says he needs more time for whatever reason. I really am over questioning and prodding him which is why when he said he needed more time I said I'd heard that before and nothing would change. Then he did this. So am I convinced? Heck no. Not even close. If he wants to spend his money on this "grand gesture" that's on him. If he ends up not following through, that's also on him but I'll be vacationing with my friends so I'll be ok:)

 

Have a nice holiday lostgirl.

 

So, unless you see some real changes before the holiday, I guess it will be separate beds when you are there ?

[Imajerk17]

I think OP is going to do whatever she is going to do when it comes to MM. I mean, she basically ignored everyone's advice to go NC ect. It's pretty clear that she simply is too far gone when it comes to MM (no matter what she says). Looks like she will just have to learn the hard way.

 

What OP may not be getting is how she is hurting herself when it comes to future relationships, 5 or 10 years down. Most men myself included just do not want to get involved w a mistress. They're Bad News, just too much of a risk to entrust your heart to. I mean, the reasoning goes like this: If a woman can poach another woman's husband, then there likely wouldn't be much stopping her from cheating on her own spouse if "feelings" ever pulled her to do so. Harsh but honest.

 

Best of luck OP.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Imajerk17

[lostgirl87]

Have a nice holiday lostgirl.

 

So, unless you see some real changes before the holiday, I guess it will be separate beds when you are there ?

Thank you!

 

And no, if he doesn't file and/or move out, he isn't going. Period. The hotel was booked under my name since I will be there several days before him and will obviously be checking in without him.

[lostgirl87]

I think OP is going to do whatever she is going to do when it comes to MM. I mean, she basically ignored everyone's advice to go NC ect. It's pretty clear that she simply is too far gone when it comes to MM (no matter what she says). Looks like she will just have to learn the hard way.

 

What OP may not be getting is how she is hurting herself when it comes to future relationships, 5 or 10 years down. Most men myself included just do not want to get involved w a mistress. They're Bad News, just too much of a risk to entrust your heart to. I mean, the reasoning goes like this: If a woman can poach another woman's husband, then there likely wouldn't be much stopping her from cheating on her own spouse if "feelings" ever pulled her to do so. Harsh but honest.

 

Best of luck OP.

I appreciate the concern and the well wishes. And maybe it's wrong but believe me, no man I date will know I dated a married man. We don't run in the same social group, we have no mutual friends- unless I say something Or one of my close friends decides to betray me, a future boyfriend will not find out.

[Imajerk17]

I appreciate the concern and the well wishes. And maybe it's wrong but believe me, no man I date will know I dated a married man. We don't run in the same social group, we have no mutual friends- unless I say something Or one of my close friends decides to betray me, a future boyfriend will not find out.

 

I wouldn't be too sure about that though. I mean, there is at least one coworker--former or current--who knows. And last but not least, MM may end up coming back when you least want him to.

 

What I feel is truly sad is that you have gotten into the habit of being deceitful, of covering things up.

[Birdies]

I appreciate the concern and the well wishes. And maybe it's wrong but believe me, no man I date will know I dated a married man. We don't run in the same social group, we have no mutual friends- unless I say something Or one of my close friends decides to betray me, a future boyfriend will not find out.

 

I can understand wanting to keep it under wraps, but what a big thing to keep from a future partner and possibly your life-long spouse. Wouldn't it feel so inauthenic to be discussing past loves and just keep this entire experience a big secret? Lying by omission. That's one of the worst things about being involved in infidelity - how it makes you predisposed to lying and being inauthentic and being ok with having a secret life that you cover up. It's definitely something I'm fighting too at times.