definitely over with MM [UPDATED: Just Friends?? Or impossible?]

[GeekLover]

GeekLover, I'm sorry that things didn't work out better for you. I really really respect you taking the time to make things as painless as possible for your kids.

 

Birdie,

 

Thank you SO much for saying this. You have no idea how much it means to me. One of the last things my OM had said (written) to me was that he had lost respect for how I went about doing things.

 

This is one of the many things I have been reflecting on many times in the past 5 months. I've asked myself so many times if I was wrong to have spent so much time working on things with my H, even though I knew it was my OM that I wanted. But the truth is, the demise of my marriage was due to the fact we were unable to communicate. The point of all the work him and I put into fixing our relationship was to learn HOW to communicate with each other. I knew regardless of what was going to happen between us, that it was a necessary step to take. Whether him and I stayed together, or separated, we would NEED to know how to work as a team and we would need to know how to talk to one another, if not for us, but AT LEAST for our KIDS!

 

The added bonus to this would have also been that OM and I would have had a bit of a leg to stand on since his relationship with his ex-wife and kids was (and most likely still is) awful. As I said, it had been 3 years (?) and they were STILL arguing over the kids and money.

 

If I expected anybody to understand this, I would have thought OM would have, since his relationship with his kids was quite destroyed after his separation. Apparently I was wrong.

 

Again Birdie, thank you so much for this. I know deep down that the steps I took that lead me to finally ending my marriage were the right ones. For so long, I watched my OM struggling to try mend his relationship with his kids and to get along with his ex-wife, and I saw him getting nowhere. I KNEW separations and divorces didn't HAVE to be that way, and I took it upon myself to make sure mine would not look anything like that. Perhaps witnessing the ugly side of it was what held me back for as long as it did.

 

Either way, I am learning to accept my actions and be at peace with the process I took, even though in the end, I lost someone who was one of the most important people to me in my life. But on a positive note, I have a much better relationship with my H, I know my kids will be happy and loved regardless of our whether we live in one house or two, and I have learned SO much about myself-some things to work on, but especially STRONG qualities I possess that I never knew I had.

 

Now it's time to harness these newfound qualities to be a better me.

[lostgirl87]

From the OPs posts and the experience of a couple of MWs who had affairs, I see that one of the most challenging things, is knowing if you're being told the truth.

 

Because you're aware that your OM/MM and the MW has proved to be deceptive in his /her marriage, you just don't know if the declarations of love and "I want to be with you" are true.

 

It's hard when the relationship started in this dishonest way.

That's definitely something I struggle with. I flip a lot between "I know him and I know what we have and I know what I see in him and hear from him- there's no way this is all BS" and "how do I really know this is the truth? Maybe everyone else is right and I'm completely wrong and blind" Which turns me into a woman who is constantly questioning and needing reassurance.

 

I do believe him. I've never caught him in a lie and believe me when I say I've done my "research" about a lot of things he's told me and it always matches up with his story. He tells me even unpleasant things that I may not want to hear but he's always been honest. The one night stand obviously is not something he was forthcoming about but he did cut her off (before I found out) and realized his mistake. It wasn't something that was going to happen again. Again, I believe him. I honestly only doubt him when I listen to others' perspective. I know other people mean well either b/c they care about me and don't want me to get even more hurt or b/c they themselves have been through a similar situation but are any 2 situations really the same? B/c I'm in it and b/c I'm the one talking to him and listening to him and looking at him when he's saying these things, I have a different outlook. Am I blinded or am I really seeing him for who he is and we're the "exception"? Like I've said in other posts, only time will tell. All I know is I wouldn't be putting up with the things and conditions I've set for him if I didn't actually love that person. If I end up being completely wrong then that's on me. It's a big risk to take but it's also a big loss to throw it away now. So my "compromise" with myself is to keep speaking to him if/when he reaches out and keep my distance as much as I can- hence the "no sex" thing. I'll continue going out and meeting new people and dating and see where that takes me.

[lostgirl87]

Originally, OM and I had discussed parting ways because it wasn't fair for him to keep waiting for me to figure out what I was doing with my marriage. He had put in his time (about a year, which happens to be how long it took him to split with his wife as well). I honestly couldn't handle trying to make him and my H happy at the same time, and having my OM around while I was trying to make my decision was holding me back anyway.

 

At the time of this conversation, I didn't realize it would take me less than a week to also get the nerve to finally pull the plug on my marriage.

 

I remember it so clearly-H was upstairs putting the kids to bed and I felt it all boil over inside me. I ran out the front door in my bare feet in the rain, sprinted around the block twice, returned to the house, collapsed on the couch, and just sobbed like I'd never sobbed before. H came downstairs to find me in that state, and I finally told him I couldn't do it anymore and I was in love with my OM.

 

The next day I texted my OM to tell him we needed to meet to talk, and that's when everything happened with him. He refused to see me. It's been 5 months now since I've heard from him. We never did meet.

 

To answer your question: No. I have been standing by my decision. I made a choice to end my marriage because I was in love with someone else. My H has been an amazing friend to me during this time and has been one of the few to comfort me after the loss of my OM. I don't deserve any of this treatment he has given me after everything I have done to him, but he chooses to be there for me regardless. However, I can't find any way to justify trying to fix our marriage after all of this.

 

How do I tell my H I love someone else, end our marriage to be with that person, and then say, "Oh...nevermind...he doesn't want me afterall, so let's stay together" after OM has rejected me. I can't do anymore damage to my H. I've done enough and it isn't fair to choose him as my Plan B.

Wow that's so strong and admirable!! You sound like a wonderful, kind and considerate person despite past actions/choices. Obviously the best thing is to never get involved in an affair in the first place but hey- things happen. Nobody is perfect. Nobody goes looking for these things- at least I don't think they do. But to me it sounds like you handled it the best way possible! You did the best thing you could for your husband which was to be honest with him and let him go to rebuild his life. I honestly find your way of handling the aftermath quite admirable.

 

I hope you've found happiness and are enjoying life. I hope your children have adjusted and that your husband has been able to move on as well. It's great that you 2 still have a good relationship. I wish you nothing but the best!

[lostgirl87]

I'm glad you have a time limit for yourself.

 

What does he get? He gets an ego stroke.

 

Why does he get her and you? What's right about having those feelings but no way to state exactly how he makes you feel?

 

You shouldn't have to squish your feelings emotionally - when you really love someone.

Yeah I hate that at the end of this he still has two women who love him and are willing to take a chance on him despite all of his wrongdoings. But I guess he's just a lucky guy? Lol.

 

This is definitely not an ideal situation and I'm not proud of what I've done and what I continue to do. I just feel like I can't give up yet. I feel like he came back for a reason. He's putting up with my conditions for a reason. And it's not sex! Again I will say, time will tell what happens.

[GeekLover]

Wow that's so strong and admirable!! You sound like a wonderful, kind and considerate person despite past actions/choices. Obviously the best thing is to never get involved in an affair in the first place but hey- things happen. Nobody is perfect. Nobody goes looking for these things- at least I don't think they do. But to me it sounds like you handled it the best way possible! You did the best thing you could for your husband which was to be honest with him and let him go to rebuild his life. I honestly find your way of handling the aftermath quite admirable.

 

I hope you've found happiness and are enjoying life. I hope your children have adjusted and that your husband has been able to move on as well. It's great that you 2 still have a good relationship. I wish you nothing but the best!

 

Thank you so much, lostgirl. It means so much to me to hear that people on the outside are able to see where I'm coming from. It makes me feel like I'm not actually crazy afterall...lol.

 

I know I've made my mistakes, both in my marriage and with my OM. However to be honest, I'm struggling to figure out exactly where I went wrong with him, apart from the stupid text bombing I did which started the whole break up in the first place. But even still...he was already starting to date anyway, so I'm not sure if it would have mattered if that happened or not.

 

I was very honest and loyal. Heck...I haven't slept with my H is almost 2 years now. I promised my OM I wouldn't because I was THAT committed.

 

As for hubby and I, we're still living together and sorting out finances so we can truly separate and be comfortable. We've had a house appraisal and we've gone through a financial advisor to figure it out. It helps that he's a banker too, so he knows what we need to do. I'm really lucky to be going through this with him. We're lucky we were able to get to the point where we're at where living together is perfectly comfortable. We enjoy each other's company and we have been very supportive of each other. We've both even been out on dates and been able to talk about them afterwards with interest and compassion.

 

But anyway...Oh well...life goes on...my life will go one without my OM, but luckily it will never go on without my kids and my H (ex..eventually). I'm not afraid of that anymore. I'm a strong woman and I'm looking forward to figuring out my life on my own for awhile.

[elaine567]

Yeah I hate that at the end of this he still has two women who love him and are willing to take a chance on him despite all of his wrongdoings. But I guess he's just a lucky guy? Lol.

 

This is definitely not an ideal situation and I'm not proud of what I've done and what I continue to do. I just feel like I can't give up yet. I feel like he came back for a reason. He's putting up with my conditions for a reason. And it's not sex! Again I will say, time will tell what happens.

 

But nothing really has changed, you are on the sidelines of this man's marriage

...and you are in limbo - waiting.

Nothing happens in your life whilst you have put yourself on hold.

Yes, you may be going out, even dating, but you know and I know it is only a half hearted attempt at being "normal".

YOUR real focus is elsewhere, it is still on him.

 

The "no sex" rule will get to you, and very soon you will be back to stage one.

Back in the affair, it will be YOU pressing and pressing for more and he again backing off...

[donbar]

This is my first post here so be gentle!

 

I'm writing because I was the MM in this scenario without the extra woman.

I was involved with the most wonderful OW, with all the requisite unbelievable emotions and back and forth. It lasted just over two years and she ended it in no uncertain terms when I didn't appear to be making any inroads into securing a D. I intend to write my story and see what advice I can get soon, but if I were to try and guess what your MM needs, it is the absolute hope that if he does get divorced that you will be there for him, if only as a friend. He also needs to know that you absolutely will go NC if he doesn't progress with the unraveling of his marriage.

 

My story has its own complications but I'm still married, still love the OW and yearn for her every day, but realize that the only way to show her I love her is to leave her alone. It's been over four months since we were together and I would do anything to be with her permanently but one month ago we met, and talked for over three hours. It was very emotional for both of us but she was just like you described yourself at your meeting, very calm and cool, and said she was moving on.

 

This website has helped me enormously to understand the OWs perspective, so I wanted to pay it back a little. Your MM wants you desperately but cannot work out how to make it happen. You can help him achieve that by being forthright on what you need, namely to be the only woman in his life who he will love unconditionally. That he needs to get a divorce and move on with his life. Don't wait for him, but tell him again that if you are single when he is finally divorced he would be welcome to start all over again, if that's how you feel.

 

Regarding his 'cheating' on you, it was a form of self-destructive behavior on his part, borne of the desperation of his situation. I bet he hates himself for doing it. Sorry about the rambling. I wish you all the best of luck, and that you find peace and love.

[Imajerk17]

That's definitely something I struggle with. I flip a lot between "I know him and I know what we have and I know what I see in him and hear from him- there's no way this is all BS" and "how do I really know this is the truth? Maybe everyone else is right and I'm completely wrong and blind" Which turns me into a woman who is constantly questioning and needing reassurance.

 

I do believe him. I've never caught him in a lie and believe me when I say I've done my "research" about a lot of things he's told me and it always matches up with his story. He tells me even unpleasant things that I may not want to hear but he's always been honest. The one night stand obviously is not something he was forthcoming about but he did cut her off (before I found out) and realized his mistake. It wasn't something that was going to happen again. Again, I believe him. I honestly only doubt him when I listen to others' perspective. I know other people mean well either b/c they care about me and don't want me to get even more hurt or b/c they themselves have been through a similar situation but are any 2 situations really the same? B/c I'm in it and b/c I'm the one talking to him and listening to him and looking at him when he's saying these things, I have a different outlook. Am I blinded or am I really seeing him for who he is and we're the "exception"? Like I've said in other posts, only time will tell. All I know is I wouldn't be putting up with the things and conditions I've set for him if I didn't actually love that person. If I end up being completely wrong then that's on me. It's a big risk to take but it's also a big loss to throw it away now. So my "compromise" with myself is to keep speaking to him if/when he reaches out and keep my distance as much as I can- hence the "no sex" thing. I'll continue going out and meeting new people and dating and see where that takes me.

No, you shouldn't be going out on dates. Jeeze Louise. I mean, are you going to tell the guy taking you out for a date the truth that you're obsessed w MM and you are going on the date w said guy as a distraction? How about instead you not waste anyone's time and get yourself to therapy instead.

 

It's astounding the stuff some women will up with due to "feelings", and it is disappointing that this thread took the turn that it did, with all these other WWs on here telling you "you go, Girl!". Meanwhile the cold harsh reality is that you are breaking up someone else's marriage. You're a mistress. This will stay w you your entire life.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Imajerk17

[Birdies]

From the OPs posts and the experience of a couple of MWs who had affairs, I see that one of the most challenging things, is knowing if you're being told the truth.

 

Because you're aware that your OM/MM and the MW has proved to be deceptive in his /her marriage, you just don't know if the declarations of love and "I want to be with you" are true.

 

It's hard when the relationship started in this dishonest way.

 

This is very true. I guess I never questioned whether my MM was lying to me, and in retrospect, I think it was because we were both married and had no plans for leaving our spouses for each other. There was really nothing to be gained for either of us by future faking - what we each needed more than anything was someone to talk to and later, the emotional support and love we provided each other.

 

The difference in life circumstances between a MM who has a whole other life and is by nature deceitful there, and a single OW who can be all in and has no real need for dishonesty, I think is more likely to cause a lack of honesty and full truth and clear intentions between the APs.

[Birdies]

No, you shouldn't be going out on dates. Jeeze Louise. I mean, are you going to tell the guy taking you out for a date the truth that you're obsessed w MM and you are going on the date w said guy as a distraction? How about instead you not waste anyone's time and get yourself to therapy instead.

 

It's astounding the stuff some women will up with due to "feelings", and it is disappointing that this thread took the turn that it did, with all these other WWs on here telling you "you go, Girl!". Meanwhile the cold harsh reality is that you are breaking up someone else's marriage. You're a mistress. This will stay w you your entire life.

 

No one is cheerleading infidelity - don't be histrionic. Obviously it's horrific for all involved and OP is well aware of that. We are just offering advice from a BTDT perspective, which is the point of the forum and more than you can say as you don't seem to be an OW / OM?

[Spring23]

No, you shouldn't be going out on dates. Jeeze Louise. I mean, are you going to tell the guy taking you out for a date the truth that you're obsessed w MM and you are going on the date w said guy as a distraction? How about instead you not waste anyone's time and get yourself to therapy instead.

 

It's astounding the stuff some women will up with due to "feelings", and it is disappointing that this thread took the turn that it did, with all these other WWs on here telling you "you go, Girl!". Meanwhile the cold harsh reality is that you are breaking up someone else's marriage. You're a mistress. This will stay w you your entire life.

 

I agree. I don't think the OP realizes what is going on: This man has become her obsession, he knows it. I DOUBT he's on social media making threads about her.

 

This man will eventually get another female into his makeshift harem and the new girl will get all the primary attention.

 

After all why should he stop now with only two girls? How boring.

[Birdies]

Birdie,

 

Thank you SO much for saying this. You have no idea how much it means to me. One of the last things my OM had said (written) to me was that he had lost respect for how I went about doing things.

 

This is one of the many things I have been reflecting on many times in the past 5 months. I've asked myself so many times if I was wrong to have spent so much time working on things with my H, even though I knew it was my OM that I wanted. But the truth is, the demise of my marriage was due to the fact we were unable to communicate. The point of all the work him and I put into fixing our relationship was to learn HOW to communicate with each other. I knew regardless of what was going to happen between us, that it was a necessary step to take. Whether him and I stayed together, or separated, we would NEED to know how to work as a team and we would need to know how to talk to one another, if not for us, but AT LEAST for our KIDS!

 

The added bonus to this would have also been that OM and I would have had a bit of a leg to stand on since his relationship with his ex-wife and kids was (and most likely still is) awful. As I said, it had been 3 years (?) and they were STILL arguing over the kids and money.

 

If I expected anybody to understand this, I would have thought OM would have, since his relationship with his kids was quite destroyed after his separation. Apparently I was wrong.

 

Again Birdie, thank you so much for this. I know deep down that the steps I took that lead me to finally ending my marriage were the right ones. For so long, I watched my OM struggling to try mend his relationship with his kids and to get along with his ex-wife, and I saw him getting nowhere. I KNEW separations and divorces didn't HAVE to be that way, and I took it upon myself to make sure mine would not look anything like that. Perhaps witnessing the ugly side of it was what held me back for as long as it did.

 

Either way, I am learning to accept my actions and be at peace with the process I took, even though in the end, I lost someone who was one of the most important people to me in my life. But on a positive note, I have a much better relationship with my H, I know my kids will be happy and loved regardless of our whether we live in one house or two, and I have learned SO much about myself-some things to work on, but especially STRONG qualities I possess that I never knew I had.

 

Now it's time to harness these newfound qualities to be a better me.

 

((((Hugs)))) The aftermath of an affair is an awful thing to go through, and just because it's self-inflicted, doesn't make it a whole lot easier. And because it's self-inflicted and because it hurts others (spouses) much worse, I know how lonely it can be because no one really is willing to extend you much compassion or empathy. "Isn't this what you wanted?! You did this!"

 

You're amazingly lucky that you and your husband can have a solid functional friendship. That takes some real compassion and strength from your husband. My husband said that's what he wanted, and of course I did too - he was my best friend and I didn't want to lose him, despite how shlttily I treated him. He was very gracious and kind during the aftermath and through our divorce, but he's moved away now and isn't responding to my occasional outreaches, so I think he clearly needs some space. I hope it's not forever, but we'll see. We don't have kids to tie us together, just a long long history. I guess he has a girlfriend and they seem very happy. I'm really glad about that, and also a little like "yeah just wait and see girlie...." He's amazing but a hard person to be married to. More than anything I just want him to be happy and hopefully to have someone who loves him unconditionally, which I was unable to do

 

Anyway, sorry for the thread jack and big hugs to you OP and GeekLover.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Birdies

[georgia girl]

Lostgirl,

 

Jumping back in here because I really think you need some woman-to-woman advice. I know you really love this guy and that you also said that this was your first really serious relationship. Can you take some advice from a (getting) old(er) lady who is happily married?

 

This isn't what love loos or feels like. Right now, the high emotion of this feels so addictive. There's the super highs where he validates you and everything you feel about him and the super lows where he's still with his wife, he's slept with yet another woman, etc.

 

Real love doesn't work this way. As I read from another poster, real love is like the difference between a school play and Broadway theater. It's so much more than what you're seeing right now. No, there are hardly ever any dramatic moments of undying love or scenes of being star-crossed lovers. But, real love is so affirming, so comforting, so steadying that when you get it, you realize how incredibly simple but powerful it is.

 

I want that for you and for all people. And, through these boards, I've learned that real love can start as an affair, although its rare. But Lostgirl, yours doesn't read like their stories. I'm so very sorry to say that to you because I think you desperately want it to be true.

 

Sometimes the hardest thing we have to do for ourselves is to deny ourselves the instant pleasure and walk away from something that is not good for us. We have to deliberately and knowingly walk into a period of grieving and mourning, a period of sadness and loneliness, to get to the other side. But, if on the other side, a whole person emerges, now armed with the knowledge of what she doesn't want in a relationship and the self-awareness to know that she is strong enough to heal from a broken heart, than that woman has all of the tools she needs to find real love. And real love is simply amazing.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide. GG

[Vivir]

Sometimes the hardest thing we have to do for ourselves is to deny ourselves the instant pleasure and walk away from something that is not good for us. We have to deliberately and knowingly walk into a period of grieving and mourning, a period of sadness and loneliness, to get to the other side. But, if on the other side, a whole person emerges, now armed with the knowledge of what she doesn't want in a relationship and the self-awareness to know that she is strong enough to heal from a broken heart, than that woman has all of the tools she needs to find real love. And real love is simply amazing.

 

Georgia Girl, I really appreciate you writing this. I had the hardest time walking away from the xMM, because I just knew I was hurting him by even thinking about it. The truth was that his real life could sustain him, and it did. Through this board, I learned that I was only a small piece of his real life - a hidden (side)piece... as a single AP, when he was gone, I had no one but myself. Over time, I realized just how much I had been hurting myself. When the pain far outweighed the pleasure, it still hurt (due to the addiction over the emotional highs and believing until the bitter end that we had been "friends"), but I just had to do it, because the hurt was so terrible.

 

Believe it or not, going through the process of purchasing a home and listening to xMM talking about just a few of the things he did on the weekends at his own home are what helped me to begin waking the hell up.

 

He bought their home, but he wanted a key to mine...that I pay for by myself...

 

He washes/details their cars and gasses them up ... I pay to have mine done...

 

He called and complained about work... I realized he was wasting my time... it is his wife's duty to listen to that. She has a vested interest, after all.

 

He wants to use my body for his own gratification - even to this day, I bet... but I needed to buy the condoms and provide the hiding place.

 

And so on...

 

It took realizing that I am the husband in my house, and I should therefore be reaping all of the benefits of my time and affections. He is the husband at his house, and should be looking to his wife to provide him with everything he wants and needs.

Also, it took me dating a single man to realize just how much I had been missing out on in the romantic sense. We dated for three months. I allowed my then-continued interaction (you know, pseudo-friendship) with MM to unravel the possibility of this becoming a serious relationship (the single man was NOT having it). I regret that to this day. Because... he still has his wife. And I am alone.

 

Hopefully, someone got something from my diatribe. I hope I didn't threadjack too much... Thanks again for your words, Georgia Girl, because I swear, that is where I am: a period of mourning and bitterness and sometimes actual joy, self-reflection and boundary building... learning what I will tolerate and hoping one day to be worthy of real Love with an available man.

 

By the way, I am reading Melody Beattie's "The Art of Letting Go."

[lostgirl87]

This is my first post here so be gentle!

 

I'm writing because I was the MM in this scenario without the extra woman.

I was involved with the most wonderful OW, with all the requisite unbelievable emotions and back and forth. It lasted just over two years and she ended it in no uncertain terms when I didn't appear to be making any inroads into securing a D. I intend to write my story and see what advice I can get soon, but if I were to try and guess what your MM needs, it is the absolute hope that if he does get divorced that you will be there for him, if only as a friend. He also needs to know that you absolutely will go NC if he doesn't progress with the unraveling of his marriage.

 

My story has its own complications but I'm still married, still love the OW and yearn for her every day, but realize that the only way to show her I love her is to leave her alone. It's been over four months since we were together and I would do anything to be with her permanently but one month ago we met, and talked for over three hours. It was very emotional for both of us but she was just like you described yourself at your meeting, very calm and cool, and said she was moving on.

 

This website has helped me enormously to understand the OWs perspective, so I wanted to pay it back a little. Your MM wants you desperately but cannot work out how to make it happen. You can help him achieve that by being forthright on what you need, namely to be the only woman in his life who he will love unconditionally. That he needs to get a divorce and move on with his life. Don't wait for him, but tell him again that if you are single when he is finally divorced he would be welcome to start all over again, if that's how you feel.

 

Regarding his 'cheating' on you, it was a form of self-destructive behavior on his part, borne of the desperation of his situation. I bet he hates himself for doing it. Sorry about the rambling. I wish you all the best of luck, and that you find peace and love.

It's so great to get the perspective of a MM with an OW. I really appreciate you taking the time to comment and I look forward to your posts!

 

I know my MM needs to know that I'll be there for him when he leaves. He even needs me to be there for him right now. He feels better and stronger when he knows that I'm there. When I'm distant, he is hurting and can't handle the situation. I've received messages from him telling me how empty his soul is without me. How his head, heart and soul are with me no matter where he is, what he's doing or who he's with. I have no reason to doubt that. I believe he loves me. It's just frustrating that he's confused or in limbo. But I'm not the one who is married and has to hurt someone I care for- I can't know how he feels. And I KNOW it's killing him to be hurting us. He's not the bad man that some commenters here want to make him out to be. He's a regular man who met someone he didn't expect to meet and eventually fell in love with. I'm not some horrible manipulative whore who enjoys stealing other women's men. I'm a regular woman who became friends with a married man and eventually fell in love. It wasn't planned. I'm not proud of it. I know it's wrong. But here I am.

 

I'm looking forward to reading your story b/c I'm hopeful it'll give me a perspective that is not commonly found here. If you love and yearn to be with your OW, why did you stay married? Does your wife know about the affair? Are you trying to make the marriage work or just trying to figure out how to leave? What do you need from your OW, if anything, to make you choose her if you say you love her and want to be with her?

 

Again thank you for your post. I like hearing all sides but most of what I'm getting is the "harsh truth" that my MM is just a liar and I'm obsessed and nothing more than a mistress. Which could be true. But knowing him and the way we are with each other, that doesn't seem likely. Your comment helped so thank you!

[GeekLover]

I'm looking forward to reading your story b/c I'm hopeful it'll give me a perspective that is not commonly found here. If you love and yearn to be with your OW, why did you stay married? Does your wife know about the affair? Are you trying to make the marriage work or just trying to figure out how to leave? What do you need from your OW, if anything, to make you choose her if you say you love her and want to be with her?

 

Again thank you for your post. I like hearing all sides but most of what I'm getting is the "harsh truth" that my MM is just a liar and I'm obsessed and nothing more than a mistress. Which could be true. But knowing him and the way we are with each other, that doesn't seem likely. Your comment helped so thank you!

 

I can at least provide you answers from (my) MW perspective:

 

-I loved two men-my OM was the type of relationship I wanted to have, but my H still symbolized the life I wanted-the family, the house, the security. It was impossible to choose one over the other

 

-My kids-picturing a life where I only saw them half the time. I needed to work through that idea and come to terms with it. Worrying about what their life would be like and how they would handle a separation. I'm a teacher and I witness the negative effects all the time. I struggled with the idea that there was a possibility they might not adapt as I hoped.

 

-I struggled with how everyone else would perceive me. I imagined being talked about behind my back, being judged, being hated by family or friends, as well as being disowned by some. Would my parents accept what I've done and accept him? It was a tough pill to swallow. Is my happiness really worth all that?

 

-I worried about finances. How could I possibly survive on my own? OM wanted me to move in right away, but I refused. I knew things would never work if that happened, and I knew I needed to at least have my own space and start dating him like a normal person would before anything moved forward with us.

 

This was just separating WITHOUT having him in my life...

Now to consider my OM:

 

-I struggled with the idea of his kids-they already pretty much hated him. Will they now make my own life difficult? How would they ever accept me? One is heading to university this fall...will I be partly responsible for paying for this? His youngest youngest is special needs and will most likely rely on adults for life...how will bringing his kids into my life effect my own kid's lives? Will I struggle to provide for them if I'm partly responsible for his as well?

 

-His wife has gone through quite extended periods of being off work and has been investigated for some serious accusations. She ended up losing her job and has since moved on to something new, but she is not stable. Just before OM and I split, she was starting to seek out legal advice about child support and was looking for something in writing. I considered-do I really want to expose my kids to this? Do I want to be involved? Will she come after me for anything? If him and I do end up living together and are legally common law, does that mean my pay checks will start going to her too? What will she do to me to make my life miserable?

 

And on top of all this, OM was putting pressure on me to hurry up. Plus, I was his support system when his kids treated him like dirt and when his wife gave him a hard time about things. It made it even more difficult to make a decision. Why would I want to put myself into the same situation??? When I voiced my concerns, I was met with, "It will work out. Your separation won't look like this. You just need to grow some woman balls."

 

Do I? Is that all? I guess I was crazy for trying to imagine what a REALISTIC relationship with this man would look like and to consider the other angles. Silly me though...it was just my lack of woman balls...

 

Hopefully that helps a little OP. If this man is TRULY considering a life with you, then he is wrestling with A LOT of thoughts. This really does take a lot of time to sort through. If he's a decent man worth waiting for at all, he WILL be taking his time to sort through all these thoughts. He WILL be considering what is the best route to take for his kids. He WILL be considering how to leave his wife in the most humane way possible. Would you really want to watch him treat someone he has spent a good part of his life with, shares kids with, and loved (and probably still does in some form or another) with cruelty?

 

That could be you one day. Actions really do speak louder than words.

[Imajerk17]

No one is cheerleading infidelity - don't be histrionic. Obviously it's horrific for all involved and OP is well aware of that. We are just offering advice from a BTDT perspective, which is the point of the forum and more than you can say as you don't seem to be an OW / OM?

 

No it's not, "horrific for all involved" is when say your house burns down because it was struck by lightning, something really bad happening that you **can't control**. OP and her MM, on the other hand, made a CHOICE to be involved.

 

I stand by what I wrote. This is how OP's story looks to an outsider: She is spinning round and round to these crazy fantasies, because she had to get involved w somebody else' husband. In her mind she is this heroine to this amazing love story, Juliette and Florence Nightingale and Joan Of Arc all rolled into one. The reality though is she is playing her part breaking up someone's marriage because she fell for MM's BS. And if that isn't enough, now she is thinking about pulling other people into this by "dating". Cripes.

 

To answer your question, no I am not an OM (I am male) not because I was never tempted, but instead because I try to make smart decisions. I walked away. See, marriage is sacred to me.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Imajerk17

[lostgirl87]

No it's not, "horrific for all involved" is when say your house burns down because it was struck by lightning, something really bad happening that you **can't control**. OP and her MM, on the other hand, made a CHOICE to be involved.

 

I stand by what I wrote. This is how OP's story looks to an outsider: She is spinning round and round to these crazy fantasies, because she had to get involved w somebody else' husband. In her mind she is this heroine to this amazing love story, Juliette and Florence Nightingale and Joan Of Arc all rolled into one. The reality though is she is playing her part breaking up someone's marriage because she fell for MM's BS. And if that isn't enough, now she is thinking about pulling other people into this by "dating". Cripes.

 

To answer your question, no I am not an OM (I am male) not because I was never tempted, but instead because I try to make smart decisions. I walked away. See, marriage is sacred to me.

You clearly have very strong feelings towards cheaters and affair partners and that's your right. To be honest, I felt the exact same way! I found it disgusting and never understood how people got into those situations. Unfortunately I lost control of the situation months ago and now there's a lot of back and forth. I'm glad you are so much better than us and have been able to remain in control. However, your judgment and holier than thou speeches are not appreciated nor are they helpful. You clearly pride yourself on being a jerk so you like to flaunt that around this site. Good for you.

 

Not that I owe you or anyone any explanations but I did come here for support and advice. Preferably from people who were or are in my situation either as the wayward or OM/OW. Seeing as how you are neither of those, you are only on this side of the site to judge and as your name states, be a jerk.

 

I appreciated your earlier comments but this last post is absurd. What fantasy am I living? I am simply stating what MM has been telling me and that I believe him. I'm not planning our life together. I'm simply not closing the door today. And I don't see how I consider myself the heroine in any type of love story. And frankly I don't care how you see it that way. I know who I am and I'm not proud of where I am or what I'm doing but I'm here- still speaking to him and refraining from the sexual component of the affair.

 

All I can do is move forward. I don't think me trying to date is pulling anyone into anything! It's me trying to slowly move on. Its a distraction and who knows who I'll eventually meet. For right now, it's casual. If that were to change then obviously MM would be completely out of my life and he knows this. Again, I don't owe you any explanations but since I willingly posted here I decided to say this.

[FoundMyStrength]

No it's not, "horrific for all involved" is when say your house burns down because it was struck by lightning, something really bad happening that you **can't control**. OP and her MM, on the other hand, made a CHOICE to be involved.

 

I stand by what I wrote. This is how OP's story looks to an outsider: She is spinning round and round to these crazy fantasies, because she had to get involved w somebody else' husband. In her mind she is this heroine to this amazing love story, Juliette and Florence Nightingale and Joan Of Arc all rolled into one. The reality though is she is playing her part breaking up someone's marriage because she fell for MM's BS. And if that isn't enough, now she is thinking about pulling other people into this by "dating". Cripes.

 

To answer your question, no I am not an OM (I am male) not because I was never tempted, but instead because I try to make smart decisions. I walked away. See, marriage is sacred to me.

 

I stand by Birdies on this one, you are being histrionic. It's very clear that most OW who post on this site see their role in this equation. They take responsibility for their horrific choices while also, because of the situation, discuss their pain and look for support from people who have been through similar situations. Yes the BS is obviously the wronged party here. But an OW who is already knee deep in an affair is in a hellish nightmare of being pulled in different directions by a MM who can't just man up, figure out what he wants, and make a choice. Why do you feel like it's your role to drop into threads like this and speak from on high about what is pretty obvious to anyone who's been involved in an affair. They're wrong. The BS is the victim. The MM and OW are not. No one is saying otherwise.

[lostgirl87]

I can at least provide you answers from (my) MW perspective:

 

-I loved two men-my OM was the type of relationship I wanted to have, but my H still symbolized the life I wanted-the family, the house, the security. It was impossible to choose one over the other

 

-My kids-picturing a life where I only saw them half the time. I needed to work through that idea and come to terms with it. Worrying about what their life would be like and how they would handle a separation. I'm a teacher and I witness the negative effects all the time. I struggled with the idea that there was a possibility they might not adapt as I hoped.

 

-I struggled with how everyone else would perceive me. I imagined being talked about behind my back, being judged, being hated by family or friends, as well as being disowned by some. Would my parents accept what I've done and accept him? It was a tough pill to swallow. Is my happiness really worth all that?

 

-I worried about finances. How could I possibly survive on my own? OM wanted me to move in right away, but I refused. I knew things would never work if that happened, and I knew I needed to at least have my own space and start dating him like a normal person would before anything moved forward with us.

 

This was just separating WITHOUT having him in my life...

Now to consider my OM:

 

-I struggled with the idea of his kids-they already pretty much hated him. Will they now make my own life difficult? How would they ever accept me? One is heading to university this fall...will I be partly responsible for paying for this? His youngest youngest is special needs and will most likely rely on adults for life...how will bringing his kids into my life effect my own kid's lives? Will I struggle to provide for them if I'm partly responsible for his as well?

 

-His wife has gone through quite extended periods of being off work and has been investigated for some serious accusations. She ended up losing her job and has since moved on to something new, but she is not stable. Just before OM and I split, she was starting to seek out legal advice about child support and was looking for something in writing. I considered-do I really want to expose my kids to this? Do I want to be involved? Will she come after me for anything? If him and I do end up living together and are legally common law, does that mean my pay checks will start going to her too? What will she do to me to make my life miserable?

 

And on top of all this, OM was putting pressure on me to hurry up. Plus, I was his support system when his kids treated him like dirt and when his wife gave him a hard time about things. It made it even more difficult to make a decision. Why would I want to put myself into the same situation??? When I voiced my concerns, I was met with, "It will work out. Your separation won't look like this. You just need to grow some woman balls."

 

Do I? Is that all? I guess I was crazy for trying to imagine what a REALISTIC relationship with this man would look like and to consider the other angles. Silly me though...it was just my lack of woman balls...

 

Hopefully that helps a little OP. If this man is TRULY considering a life with you, then he is wrestling with A LOT of thoughts. This really does take a lot of time to sort through. If he's a decent man worth waiting for at all, he WILL be taking his time to sort through all these thoughts. He WILL be considering what is the best route to take for his kids. He WILL be considering how to leave his wife in the most humane way possible. Would you really want to watch him treat someone he has spent a good part of his life with, shares kids with, and loved (and probably still does in some form or another) with cruelty?

 

That could be you one day. Actions really do speak louder than words.

Thank you for this! MM doesnt have children but everything else you stated is almost verbatim what he has said are big concerns for him. Another big concern for him is ny family. He knows how close we are and that my parents don't approve of our relationship. He wants to speak to them but I've said it's not the time to do that.

 

Despite our situation, he's a good man. He takes care of his mother who was a single mom after his "sperm donor" (term he uses to describe his father) abandoned her when she got pregnant and never recognized MM as his son. He bought a house for his mom to live in while he went to rent an apartment.

 

A huge reason why I believe that this is difficult for MM is b/c I too would have those same concerns. And I have them. I struggle with how the legal community will view me if we were together. I'm afraid his family will never view me as a good woman b/c I was the OW . And this has to be worse in his case: he has 2 families that he will hurt and who will view him as an evil man plus the possibility that my family could never accept him. And I know he cares and has love for his wife. She's a good woman. They have their issues but that doesn't make her evil.

 

The logical side of me knows he needs time and support. If I pressure him only 2 things will happen: i will push him away (again) or he will leave but ultimately end up resenting me and our relationship. This is why I've wanted to maintain distance between us but if I'm not there to at least be his friend and speak to him, it's too difficult for him. That's why I still speak to him and meet for lunch. We won't be able to continue this b/c my office is moving further away from his so we won't have the time. Maybe when that happens and we aren't seeing each other at all, this will all go one way or another. Whatever's meant to happen, will.

 

I can't thank you enough for taking the time to write this and validating what he has been saying. I knew deep down that it made sense but to know that these are legitimate concerns does help me. You're absolutely right- I wouldn't love him the way I do if he was a monster and able to be cruel to his wife. She doesn't deserve that and neither does their relationship.

[Birdies]

No it's not, "horrific for all involved" is when say your house burns down because it was struck by lightning, something really bad happening that you **can't control**. OP and her MM, on the other hand, made a CHOICE to be involved.

 

I stand by what I wrote. This is how OP's story looks to an outsider: She is spinning round and round to these crazy fantasies, because she had to get involved w somebody else' husband. In her mind she is this heroine to this amazing love story, Juliette and Florence Nightingale and Joan Of Arc all rolled into one. The reality though is she is playing her part breaking up someone's marriage because she fell for MM's BS. And if that isn't enough, now she is thinking about pulling other people into this by "dating". Cripes.

 

To answer your question, no I am not an OM (I am male) not because I was never tempted, but instead because I try to make smart decisions. I walked away. See, marriage is sacred to me.

 

Careful up on that high horse, it's a long way down when you fall off.

[Spring23]

I stand by Birdies on this one, you are being histrionic. It's very clear that most OW who post on this site see their role in this equation. They take responsibility for their horrific choices while also, because of the situation, discuss their pain and look for support from people who have been through similar situations. Yes the BS is obviously the wronged party here. But an OW who is already knee deep in an affair is in a hellish nightmare of being pulled in different directions by a MM who can't just man up, figure out what he wants, and make a choice. Why do you feel like it's your role to drop into threads like this and speak from on high about what is pretty obvious to anyone who's been involved in an affair. They're wrong. The BS is the victim. The MM and OW are not. No one is saying otherwise.

 

Imajerk17 isn't being histrionic. His descriptions aren't over the top, he's just pointing out the obvious which often gets overlooked once ppl are in the "fog."

 

I do believe OP started out with a good thread it was titled:

 

Big update: Definitively over with MM.

 

And that would have been a good move on her part. Hollywood has romanticized affairs so when ppl get into them they think "Ummm it's wrong but maybe we're soul mates...this was meant to be..." That would be romantic if it was true. But almost all the time affairs are based on people being bored or unhappy (or both) with their lives and then get themselves in trouble trying to fulfill whatever they think they're missing.

 

That's not romantic.

 

Hopefully the OP will come to her senses soon before she throws her life away.

[Imajerk17]

Now my posts came across a bit harsher than I intended and I apologize for the unneccesary harshness. But you are in a severe severe fog and you need to wake up!! So I have to stand by the gyst of what I said.

 

I actually respected YOUR earlier posts, lostgirl87, of a few weeks ago when you said you were going NC with MM and getting yourself into therapy as for why you let yourself get involved w MM in the first place, and in general, why go for the wrong men. THAT is what I consider "taking responsibility".

 

But now you are back to talking w MM because he called you from a different number or something (I forget exactly), and you said in a few posts since that you feel you and MM are meant to be. That is what I (and most other people )call "NOT taking responsibility", all the admissions of guilt in the meanwhile notwithatanding.

[Poppy47]

Careful up on that high horse, it's a long way down when you fall off.

 

NOt sure what interest THE JERK has in being on this site.

 

Poppy.

[BenchCoach]

I find it amusing, almost comical, the name of this thread and what's actually happening- "definitely over with MM."

 

That ol' saying comes to mind, "you can lead a horse to water, buuut..."