benpom Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 Does motivation matter? A person lies out of guilt to minimize the hurt to other people vs. A person lies to avoid consequences Same action, just different motivation. Would the motivation matter to you? Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 different motivation for lies equals different consequences but all lies have consequence cant escape consequence ....it will happen ..i have found the only way to lie..is to know the consequences wont be far behind and accept you are deserving of those consequences...you take responsibility good or bad............deb Link to post Share on other sites
Author benpom Posted April 9, 2017 Author Share Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) A while ago, I was thinking about making effort to reconcile with my ex. But lately lots of red old flags are surfacing up. I am not sure he is the right person anymore. He lied about a few things, some big, some small. He told me I should forgive him because we have children together. He told me I made him lie (because I would leave if he told the truth). He told me they were not serious lies so I should forgive him. He told me those lies don't change who he is so they should not matter. On my side, there have been perceived 'lies' too. I did not tell him I resented him sometimes, because I did not want to upset him. I did not tell him I did not trust him 100% (because I was not wise enough to spot the problem.). I certainly made a huge mistake. I should have told him these things early on to let him decide whether he wanted to stay in the relationship. Since we separated, he has been claiming himself as a superhero. I don't think he has grown much. If he really has grown, he won't think of himself as a superhero after the countless lies he gave. Edited April 9, 2017 by benpom 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Shining One Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 You're going to get all sorts of different answers when it comes to lying. Here is a recent thread in which many of the posters are chastising the man in question for not lying. There's also a lot of threads that call for absolute honesty. Personally, I fall into the gray area: Some lies are okay, some are not. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 Motivation doesn't change the lie. As they say "The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions." To me it's the nature of the lie. Telling somebody you like the present they bought you when you really don't is far more forgivable then lying to your spouse about an affair. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
curiouslysearching Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 I just don't see a scenario where lying is OK. Isn't it better to LAY IT OUT and work through whatever the issue at hand is? Link to post Share on other sites
Author benpom Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 Even though people often say they are hurt by the truth, but what I see is that most people are hurt mostly by the attitude of the person who did the hurtful things. Some people tell the truth knowing it's the hard but right thing to do. Some people tell the truth and show zero consideration of the other person's feelings and even take pride in honesty in a selfish way. Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 He lied about a few things, some big, some small. He told me I should forgive him because we have children together. He told me I made him lie (because I would leave if he told the truth). He told me they were not serious lies so I should forgive him. He told me those lies don't change who he is so they should not matter. If it wasn't so horrible for you and your family, this would be hilarious. If you were to forgive him, it should only be if he took full responsibility for his lying and acknowledged the damage it has done to you, the marriage and the family. Then see him taking steps to change his approach to truth and lies. Also, those lies don't change who he is. All it does is underscore that who he is is a liar. On my side, there have been perceived 'lies' too. I did not tell him I resented him sometimes, because I did not want to upset him. I did not tell him I did not trust him 100% (because I was not wise enough to spot the problem.). I certainly made a huge mistake. I should have told him these things early on to let him decide whether he wanted to stay in the relationship. I have to be honest and say that I'm not seeing a huge mistake on your part. Any adult who lies and thinks there should be no consequences is a fool. Yes, perhaps you could have called him on his lies, but if he hadn't lied, he wouldn't be in this situation. Since we separated, he has been claiming himself as a superhero. I don't think he has grown much. If he really has grown, he won't think of himself as a superhero after the countless lies he gave. His rationale on why you should forgive him shows him to have the emotional intelligence of a 5yo. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mightycpa Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 I don't really understand. He seems to be saying that you would have left him for telling you the truth about something that wasn't serious. 1) Did I read that right? 2) Is he right about that? I think you can forgive someone without letting yourself get into the same situation again, ie, getting back together again. What's the alternative? Hold a grudge for the rest of your life against the father of your children? It seems to me you are lumping a lot of different issues together, and this is what is causing your indecision. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author benpom Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 (edited) I don't really understand. He seems to be saying that you would have left him for telling you the truth about something that wasn't serious. 1) Did I read that right? You read that right. 2) Is he right about that? He is not right. It was serious to me. He knew it and INTENTIONALLY lied MULTIPLE times. As a separate event, it would not have been that serious. But it was more than heavy enough to be the last straw after lots of related things that happened before. I think you can forgive someone without letting yourself get into the same situation again, ie, getting back together again. What's the alternative? Hold a grudge for the rest of your life against the father of your children? It seems to me you are lumping a lot of different issues together, and this is what is causing your indecision. You are right about many things here. I am being indecisive. I don't hold much grudge against him though. I even pay for his water bills. He can afford it. He just doesn't pay for it for some reason. I also paid his car insurance. He just won't pay for it for some reason. I used to be the one to take care of bills, perhaps that's why. It's the thought of getting back together that makes me feel sick, I mean, physically sick. There has been lots of passive-aggressive verbal insults from him after our separation. He made me go through financial hardship as well, while he continues on his career and makes great income. (I used to make more money than him, before I quit my job, became a stay-at-home mother and went to a small town to pursue his dream job.) He has some good characteristics though. He has always helped me with children in the past and now when I need it. My current job is very very demanding in time, and he takes care of kids whenever I have to work extra. What I have been wondering is that if his 'flaws' are deal breakers or not. The biggest incentive for me to want to get back together is our children. They ask this question a few times a week. Of course another reason is that I still love him, like a family. Despite his flaws and what he did, I still wish him well and I still help him when he needs it. It's the type of love that does not make me happy, but I do it anyway. Edited April 10, 2017 by benpom Link to post Share on other sites
Author benpom Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 I have to be honest and say that I'm not seeing a huge mistake on your part. Any adult who lies and thinks there should be no consequences is a fool. Yes, perhaps you could have called him on his lies, but if he hadn't lied, he wouldn't be in this situation. Thank you for the kind words. Sorry to say that I have more flaws and made more mistakes than I laid out here. I have been depressed much of the time we were together. During my most depressed days, I was abusive towards him. I did not realize so back then. I also recognize many abusive things my ex did, way before we even started dating. This is part of the cycle of abuse. I was mentally abused by my parents (still am, in a much lessor degree though). He was a victim of bullying. I know I won't fall into the abuse trap anymore. I never abused my ex again after I realized my part, even when he was still verbally abusing me. I am glad he finally stopped too after I respectfully asked him to stop. Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 i show an example of a well intentioned lie gone bad ..... your daughter is wearing something that is hideous....and you say you look fine because you don't want to hurt her feelings....she then wears it all the time...till you say ... look i really wasn't honest with you.....it doesn't suit you at all its the cut and the color...its isn't flattering to you...its those clothes not you....they weren't meant for your hips or complexion........ why don't you wear the blue jeans and the green top...brings out the flecks of brown in your eyes......and looks beautiful on you... she says mum don't lie to me again or i cant trust you...now that is ....bad.......she has to trust me and i think that is what lies do the most even well intentioned lies is destroy trust....and you can be gentle with truth so its positive......deb Link to post Share on other sites
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