Mixed race couple- how to deal with differential treatment?

[babybrowns]

My boyfriend is white and I am of Asian heritage with darker skin, but I was born and raised in the UK as he was. We are both in our late twenties and work as science engineers. An issue has propped up in our relationship which is that we get treated differently when we travel abroad. Shop assistants and restaurant waiters tend to greet and address only him and ignore me completely.

 

The most prominent example of this was when I wanted to go into an expensive designer shop in Italy just to have a look and he followed behind me. He was greeted with excitement by the shop assistant who also told him where the men's section was whereas I was completely ignored and apparantly invisible. Several instances of this happened on this vacation and left me feeling quite low.

 

I tried to talk about this with my boyfriend but he doesn't really get it; being a tall white man he has never experienced racism and just makes excuses for people treating me in this way. He did say he is 'starting' to understand now though. I didn't experience it so much with my ex who was also white but not that tall; same height as me thus perhaps it made people see us on more of an 'equal level'..

 

I am wondering if this is a common issue amongst mixed race couples and how I can deal with it? Thanks

[Larryville]

I am wondering if this is a common issue amongst mixed race couples…

 

Yup… as a person of color when I was married and we would go thru airports my wife would grab onto me to make it real clear we were together to see if I would be “randomly” searched. Damn near all the time.

 

Shopping, being pulled over by the police, sometimes restaurants and I even get the “oh $#it he is a N---er” look when people talk to me on the phone then come to where I work and visit with me in my office, their eyes get big because I don’t speak with ghetto vernacular as many expect, and I’m in this seriously amazing office and they are like WTF!?

 

I know I’m weird because idiot racist behavior just fascinates me but I’ve been dealing with it since I was in grade school as the only dark skinned kid in my neighborhood and in elementary school.

 

In 2017 it is amazingly still common, but if I went around with the chip on my shoulder 24/7 I would be miserable. I had an understanding wife who was a little on the “social justice” warpath sometimes, so she was not totally clueless. However I don’t expect white people to ever “get it” it simply is impossible for many to clearly comprehend it.

 

Just continue to communicate with him but don’t bash him over the head with it because that is pointless and a waste of time.

 

I guess you can show him this old video I saw as a kid: Brown Eyes, Blue Eyes Racism experiment Children Session) Jane Elliott in the late 60’s I believe.

[Telemachus]

If you're both "science engineers," you can approach this more scientifically. Your description likely highlights the logical fallacy of Dicto Simpliciter, also known as Converse Accident.

 

If you believe that no tall white man has ever experienced racism, you will see lots of racism disfavoring you when you are with him. There could be no other explanation, right?

 

There's no monopoly on hatred and intolerance in this world, racial or otherwise. I'd say the best thing to do is to identify and isolate actual racism, and deal with that, if you have no tolerance for it. The instances you cite in your limited experience with him could just as easily be because of height, as you note. It could be because he is male. It could be because he walked through the door first/last, or because he was smiling and you were frowning, or a hundred other things.

 

Because you believe that no tall white man has ever experienced racism, you're never going to see it, and you're never going to attribute cases in which you get a warmer reception or better service than he does to your own race, height, or gender being favored in those situations.

 

Take a more scientific approach to your observations, and you'll be more confident and forceful in confronting the actual bias you experience. Be more selective, and you can make a difference.

[DrReplyInRhymes]

I think:

 

Salesmen will often target the decision maker in the group, or the couple. This is usually very hard to figure out without some sort of small tests.

 

If the salesman saw a couple (White, taller male with an Asian female) walk into a store, he has a few moments to decide who to address first. Because of the stereotype, it is more common that the white male would be the decision maker. Therefore, the salesman will probably address the male first.

 

If the woman speaks up, you will probably see the salesman switch tactics and address the female. If the woman constantly checks with the husband for approval, you will see the salesman probably address the woman (because she's obviously the talker) while tailoring the questions to suit what the man probably wants because that's the guy who is going to make the final decision.

 

You may think it's racism, I propose an alternative view: It's probably the salesman increasing his odds of closing a sale by making a split second decision in who to address first due to previous experiences involving couples of your demographic. To test this theory, as a scientist or sociologist would do I assume, you would need to present the same couple to multiple salesmen with the variable being the different ways they interact and ultimately purchase an item. In this way, you could see if racism was a factor, or the motivation of the salesman is the driving factor in this social interaction.

 

Hooray for coffee.

[CptInsano]

I truly think your spouse will have to live in an area where he is in the minority. Otherwise it is hard to get. Sure, he can understand it intellectually, but the emotional component is something he will otherwise not truly comprehend.

 

A friend of mine married a woman from Thailand. They both studied at the same university, and she has a master's degree. A lot of people treat her like she is something of an illiterate mail order bride. But her husband has travelled a lot, and he understands it to a large degree.

 

I've had a Latina gf, and experience similar issues.A few times she was literally told to "go home" when people detected a Spanish accent. Home for her would have been Florida. The irony in this is that I am the immigrant of the two of us.

[Lilyana76]

I was married to a Native American man.

 

Me being a short blonde woman, would constantly get asked if he was an alcoholic, or an abuser or if he lived off the government and had no job. There are so many stereotypes out there. He did not drink, he never raised a hand to me in our marriage, and hes had the same job for over 20 years.

 

I just don't care what people think anymore. If their ignorance is something that bothers you, you are going to have to find a way to get past it. I will never not be with someone just because of what other people think of their race. I see everyone as one race... Human. Others stupidity means nothing to me or my relationships.

[Gaeta]

I am a white female and my BF is black. To not help the matter we live in a white-lala-land suburb. We are one of the very few racial couple in our area.

 

Here people are very politically correct but sometimes they'll let one slip. Once we were at a store to return an item and the cashier told my boyfriend 'sir step aside while I am helping this lady'. It never crossed her mind we were a couple. My face changed and I said He's with ME and she couldn't stop apologizing.

 

So my take on it is: Your boyfriend needs to step up here and make it show you are 'together'. He also needs to speak up when someone lacks respect or is prejudiced against you. Even when it's subtle.

 

Like your bf sometimes I think my bf exaggerates when he talks about prejudices against him but that's simply because I don't know what it is to live as a non-white person. Since we are together (1.5 year) I start seeing what he is talking about. It's not full-blown prejudice, you'd never see this here but prejudice is there, it's subtle, in-between the lines, it's in looks, it's in the words not said. I see it clearly now. I see it when he's talking to customer service by himself and how people change when they see me joining him and in several other examples.

 

So all this to say I feel your boyfriend needs to listen to you and he needs to pay attention and not dismiss your feelings about this situation.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Gaeta

[JuneL]

I am a white female and my BF is black. To not help the matter we live in a white-lala-land suburb. We are one of the very few racial couple in our area.

 

Here people are very politically correct but sometimes they'll let one slip. Once we were at a store to return an item and the cashier told my boyfriend 'sir step aside while I am helping this lady'. It never crossed her mind we were a couple. My face changed and I said He's with ME and she couldn't stop apologizing.

 

So my take on it is: Your boyfriend needs to step up here and make it show you are 'together'. He also needs to speak up when someone lacks respect or is prejudiced against you. Even when it's subtle.

 

Like your bf sometimes I think my bf exaggerates when he talks about prejudices against him but that's simply because I don't know what it is to live as a non-white person. Since we are together (1.5 year) I start seeing what he is talking about. It's not full-blown prejudice, you'd never see this here but prejudice is there, it's subtle, in-between the lines, it's in looks, it's in the words not said. I see it clearly now. I see it when he's talking to customer service by himself and how people change when they see me joining him and in several other examples.

 

So all this to say I feel your boyfriend needs to listen to you and he needs to pay attention and not dismiss your feelings about this situation.

 

This is a great post. But then what happens if the person of color is also dating someone with color? This has nothing to do with interracial dating per se, but is more about how people with color are being treated generally.

[aileD]

I'm part of a male dominated group (for a hobby we do) with H. It full of tough military or wanna-be-military type men and l am just as involved as my H even though he's an officer. I'm by his side all the time. Literally this weekend after a fundraising event, five of us were standing in a circle talking and making plans. One guy goes , "ok gentleman, thanks for everything I'm heading out". And he literally shook my husband's hand, skipped over me, and shook the other men's hands. My husband actually grabbed my hand and put it out to him after and was like "and thank you aileD"....and the guy apologized.

 

But it happens all the time! And my husband is just like "I don't know why that happens".

[Gaeta]

This is a great post. But then what happens if the person of color is also dating someone with color? This has nothing to do with interracial dating per se, but is more about how people with color are being treated generally.

 

Thank you.

 

I felt OP concern today was about her BF's behavior or lack of behavior and concern when she feels dismissed or ignored because of her ethnicity. Example when they enter somewhere they address him because he's a white man (she feels). I get that too, when we enter a place they address me first. It can get annoying to the other person in the relationship.

 

If you are both asian, black or spanish then I imagine you both get the 'attitude'. You go through it together. In a mix relationship there is one turning to the other saying: why didn't you step up for me. But over all I think the same principal applies. In a relationship we should be protective of each other and never let outsiders treat our partner with less courtesy they deserve.

[mikeylo]

I guess it's less about race and more about personal attitude.

 

It also depends in which state you live. Some have higher percentage of inter racial couples while others have less. If it's less prevalent in your area then to avoid any drama, enter with hand holding. The relationship status is very clear.

[Gaeta]

I think:

 

Salesmen will often target the decision maker in the group, or the couple. This is usually very hard to figure out without some sort of small tests.

 

If the salesman saw a couple (White, taller male with an Asian female) walk into a store, he has a few moments to decide who to address first. Because of the stereotype, it is more common that the white male would be the decision maker. Therefore, the salesman will probably address the male first.

 

If the woman speaks up, you will probably see the salesman switch tactics and address the female. If the woman constantly checks with the husband for approval, you will see the salesman probably address the woman (because she's obviously the talker) while tailoring the questions to suit what the man probably wants because that's the guy who is going to make the final decision.

 

You may think it's racism, I propose an alternative view: It's probably the salesman increasing his odds of closing a sale by making a split second decision in who to address first due to previous experiences involving couples of your demographic. To test this theory, as a scientist or sociologist would do I assume, you would need to present the same couple to multiple salesmen with the variable being the different ways they interact and ultimately purchase an item. In this way, you could see if racism was a factor, or the motivation of the salesman is the driving factor in this social interaction.

 

Hooray for coffee.

 

 

That is a very good point. I think a lot of factors come into play, unconscious factors, and sometimes silly details like who's taller, who's male, who appears more confident, etc. This weekend BF and I were shopping for a new mattress. The sales people were addressing him the whole time and he is the non-white.

[Shining One]

My experience is that wait/help staff tend to focus on who they believe will be spending the money and thus paying their tip/commission. When I'm out with my family, my father gets the focus. When I (an Indian man) am out with my white girlfriend, I get the focus. I've noticed a few "oh crap" looks from wait staff when my girlfriend grabs the bill they just dropped in front of me.

[CptInsano]

My experience is that wait/help staff tend to focus on who they believe will be spending the money and thus paying their tip/commission. When I'm out with my family, my father gets the focus. When I (an Indian man) am out with my white girlfriend, I get the focus. I've noticed a few "oh crap" looks from wait staff when my girlfriend grabs the bill they just dropped in front of me.

 

Based on average income in the US they would indeed be correct. Asian men top that list. However, not asking who gets the bill is just lazy and somewhat stereotypical IMHO.

[Lilyana76]

Most restaurants always place the bill in front of the man, its just a customary thinking that men pay for meals/dates. Women can offer to pay or pay half if that is the understanding between the two. I don't think that has anything to do with race.

 

I think OP, trying to make your husband understand, is probably not going to work because he knows no different than being a tall white male. He could do more to acknowledge your feelings however.

[Shanex]

It's unfortunate bigotry is still alive and well..

 

An anecdote, a white girl friend of mine was dating a black guy from the carribean (his ancestry but was born and raised in a western nation.) They were waiting in line to get into Disneyland when some black woman sharing my friends boyfriend ancestry told him bluntly in creole ''why are you dating a white woman''. I don't recall how he retorted. But since this was in public he couldn't kick her butt like she deserved.

 

Racism isn't only white vs everybody else. In your case OP, I'm sorry but this is still common, the best to react imo is to gently tell these people you are his girlfriend and not some maid. In public places nobody's want to trigger a tantrum, but state clearly that you are a couple, as Gaeta said they feel stupid when they realise a mixed couple is actually together and one of them isn't there to hold the bags and errands.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Shanex

[babybrowns]

I think:

 

Salesmen will often target the decision maker in the group, or the couple. This is usually very hard to figure out without some sort of small tests.

 

If the salesman saw a couple (White, taller male with an Asian female) walk into a store, he has a few moments to decide who to address first. Because of the stereotype, it is more common that the white male would be the decision maker. Therefore, the salesman will probably address the male first.

 

If the woman speaks up, you will probably see the salesman switch tactics and address the female. If the woman constantly checks with the husband for approval, you will see the salesman probably address the woman (because she's obviously the talker) while tailoring the questions to suit what the man probably wants because that's the guy who is going to make the final decision.

 

You may think it's racism, I propose an alternative view: It's probably the salesman increasing his odds of closing a sale by making a split second decision in who to address first due to previous experiences involving couples of your demographic. To test this theory, as a scientist or sociologist would do I assume, you would need to present the same couple to multiple salesmen with the variable being the different ways they interact and ultimately purchase an item. In this way, you could see if racism was a factor, or the motivation of the salesman is the driving factor in this social interaction.

 

Hooray for coffee.

 

Yes this is exactly it, stereotypes lead to this behaviour and it is a mentality that cannot change overnight, despite my partner and I having reasonably similar levels of intellect, both with masters degrees under our belt and similar jobs. The irony was that the example I mentioned involved going into a designer store specialising in handbags which one would assume would attract draw in the female with the male following behind her, which begs the question why didn't they want to prompt the female more in her shopping?

 

 

I am a white female and my BF is black. To not help the matter we live in a white-lala-land suburb. We are one of the very few racial couple in our area.

 

Here people are very politically correct but sometimes they'll let one slip. Once we were at a store to return an item and the cashier told my boyfriend 'sir step aside while I am helping this lady'. It never crossed her mind we were a couple. My face changed and I said He's with ME and she couldn't stop apologizing.

 

So my take on it is: Your boyfriend needs to step up here and make it show you are 'together'. He also needs to speak up when someone lacks respect or is prejudiced against you. Even when it's subtle.

 

Like your bf sometimes I think my bf exaggerates when he talks about prejudices against him but that's simply because I don't know what it is to live as a non-white person. Since we are together (1.5 year) I start seeing what he is talking about. It's not full-blown prejudice, you'd never see this here but prejudice is there, it's subtle, in-between the lines, it's in looks, it's in the words not said. I see it clearly now. I see it when he's talking to customer service by himself and how people change when they see me joining him and in several other examples.

 

So all this to say I feel your boyfriend needs to listen to you and he needs to pay attention and not dismiss your feelings about this situation.

 

It is so nice to see someone who understands my worries so perfectly; mentalities cannot change overnight but the way we respond to them can and I need my partner's co-operation in this- it'll make a huge difference. The main obstacle is getting him to believe it and understand it. We have only been together for a few months and the issue came up when we were on vacation, perhaps like your situation as more time passes he will start seeing it and believing it. It is wonderful for your partner that he has your support in this 100%.

Edited April 11, 2017 by babybrowns

[greenbee81]

Happens to me too.

I'm Asian and my GF is white, I have always noticed that my white friends get greeted warmly where I'll get the obligated hello.

 

I just deal with it.

[GunslingerRoland]

I can't speak as part of a mixed race couple. But the sad reality is that you are going to encounter racism in the world. It seems like a lot of people in North America don't realize how ingrained racism is in Europe. More-so than even in America. When I visited I couldn't believe the way the locals talked about minorities. It would be the equivalent of going back to the 1930's in America.

 

In fairness, I don't know what country you are from, but there is a good chance that if you took your bf there, he would get treated even worse there than you are. White people aren't the only racists.

[spiderowl]

Maybe it is not racism but a form of sexism? I had a similar experience myself when I as a white anglo-saxon was dating a man of Indian heritage. We went into a select kind of shop together (not one I would have ever gone in before) and the shop assistants were very attentive to him. He was looking for a shirt and got the kind of treatment I had never seen before. Later on, I was admiring his shoes as they seemed very smart and well-made. It turned out they cost an absolute fortune and to those in the know (not me obviously), they would have been a visible 'clue' to wealth. I am pretty convinced they spotted the shoes and thought he might spend a lot of money with them and that's why he got the attention. Maybe they assumed he had the wallet and I was just the girlfriend - who knows? Perhaps I was the wrong colour or, more likely, wearing the wrong shoes.

[todreaminblue]

racism is not inherited it is taught and unfortunately soem people have had some rotten intolerant ignorant teachers....feel sorry for them....

 

accepting and diversity and knowing all about diversity is enlightenment..i have

amixed culture family i am as white as milk with freckles.....and sunburn easily my boys are white my girls are varying shades of caramel....i am not recognized as their mother by strangers......often,.....my oldest daughter is dark skinned exotic looking and has a while daughter as well with blue eyes from my side.....all my grandchildren have blue eyes.....all my daughters are brown eyed my sons blue....we are a true mix......and honestly...we have had racism directed at us.....my ex and i were walking near a park in a suburb aptly named for oz of kangaroo point.....and there were all these people in white outfits like ghosts ....and i said to my ex partner who is from south africa its not halloween is it i thought that was at the end of the year..........and he goes nahhhhh.....and he said i think they are klu klux clan......i said nahhhhhh not here ...cant be here in oz......they started yelling out obscenities and we kept walking ignoring them .....and i asked my ex partner whats race trader mean...and he said race traitor deb.... traitor not trader..........i heard trader.....albeit muffled...because they actually did speak through their hats,......

 

you cant change peoples actions or what they say ...you can only control how you act ...and if you fill your life with love and light....people like that ...can not touch you or itnerfere in your relationship together.....racist actions and words...are not inherited they have been taught....you can teach people ....respect...by being respectful in the face of discrimination......that is true respect..we didnt disrespect them we kept walking ....i feel sorry for them ..it was actually hell hot...they must have been really sweaty and cranky.......made them even more volatile.....

 

 

they were just people under those white things...i dotnt even know what they are called .....robes whatever..... who had horrid teachers who taught them how not to love people......so ignore....feel sympathy...show your ways ...by respecting people who disrespect you and saying nothing..and sometimes it is hard....i fail sometimes.....but mostly i am pretty good with this......wish them good day....and send some prayers up for them.....they need them more than anyone....one day...everyone is held accountable for lack of love towards fellow men....and its going to be hell hot again for them with or without the getups..racists are man haters.......and the perversions of biblical principles they inflict on others...which is love to all fellow men..........

 

.if you react to racists...you fuel the fire for their beliefs..they go see what we mean....adn then you wan tto strangle them..so no ...dont let it get to you.......we all bleed the same color...underneath the skin......they are no better than you nor you better than them...be confident in you and your guy......dont worry about them.....best wishes......deb

Edited April 14, 2017 by todreaminblue

[rushed]

One of the first dates of me (Asian) and my now boyfriend (white) was to a punk concert. Prior to the date I asked him if this band had any fans that were people of color. I told him that I was not comfortable in settings consisting of entirely white people (especially ones who resembled skinheads). He said he had never thought about that before and would look into it.

 

As a person of color we are hyper aware of things that a white male would never pay attention to (because they've never had to). As you continue dating your boyfriend I'm sure he'll start seeing things through your eyes.

[SunnyWeather]

I lived in Italy and Spain for quite a few years, and I can tell you as a Caucasian woman that this sort of thing happened ALL. THE. TIME. whether with my blond-haired blue eyed (now ex) husband or by myself. I cannot tell you how often I felt invisible or over looked (quite blatantly rude) whilst living there. I won't even begin to tell you about experiences encountered in the work place.

 

OP, it could very well be race related, I saw plenty of that there too, but I would also consider other factors that might have been at work also.

 

Best way to deal with it is find your sense of amusement. It's a shame your BF doesn't have the awareness of his white male privilege. Maybe by pointing it out he might become more sensitive to it and support you in a way you need to be.

 

I also hope it didn't ruin your experiences there, I learned to focus on what I loved about the country and let the annoyances roll off my back. It was a useful coping mechanism

[SevenCity]

One of the first dates of me (Asian) and my now boyfriend (white) was to a punk concert. Prior to the date I asked him if this band had any fans that were people of color. I told him that I was not comfortable in settings consisting of entirely white people (especially ones who resembled skinheads). He said he had never thought about that before and would look into it.

 

As a person of color we are hyper aware of things that a white male would never pay attention to (because they've never had to). As you continue dating your boyfriend I'm sure he'll start seeing things through your eyes.

 

And as a person of color you are not aware of things that a white male thinks about. Ever been the only white guy walking through a neighborhood? I have. And every single person stared at me.

 

In college I academically qualified for a particular scholarship but couldn't get it because...wait for it...I was white. Yep, it was "minorities only".

 

I cannot have a club that is exclusive to white males lest I be deemed a racist. I've worked at Fortune 500 companies where they have an Asian / African / woman / etc groups and I'm not welcome. I've actually had a female senior leader of an organization say publicly "This group is not diverse enough and I'm going to change that". Behind closed doors she said "This group has too many middle aged white males - I can't fire them all, right?" EVERY person who was hired into the group when she took over was either female or non-white. Guess who was laid off? Yep, all the white guys.

 

I find a trend here that people are making white people out to be racists. In fact, why isn't "white" a racist term like "black" has become?

 

Don't think for a second that white males don't have issues in our politically correct affirmative action society. It appears to be safe to blame us for everything.

 

My ex wife, ex gf, and the current women I'm dating are all Asian (different countries of origin). I've never had anyone disrespect them in front of me nor would I tolerate it. I honestly don't even think about race when we're together. I don't blame them for the hindrances I've experienced as a white male and I suggest you don't blame your white bf for your experienced issues.

[babybrowns]

I lived in Italy and Spain for quite a few years, and I can tell you as a Caucasian woman that this sort of thing happened ALL. THE. TIME. whether with my blond-haired blue eyed (now ex) husband or by myself. I cannot tell you how often I felt invisible or over looked (quite blatantly rude) whilst living there. I won't even begin to tell you about experiences encountered in the work place.

 

OP, it could very well be race related, I saw plenty of that there too, but I would also consider other factors that might have been at work also.

 

Best way to deal with it is find your sense of amusement. It's a shame your BF doesn't have the awareness of his white male privilege. Maybe by pointing it out he might become more sensitive to it and support you in a way you need to be.

 

I also hope it didn't ruin your experiences there, I learned to focus on what I loved about the country and let the annoyances roll off my back. It was a useful coping mechanism

 

Many thanks, it is actually reassuring to hear from someone who had similar experiences to me but with Caucasian ethnicity. Perhaps sexism played a larger part than I thought in the differential treatment then. I did try to overlook it and focus on the vacation but it was happening so many times that near the end of the trip I had to bring it up; it was getting me down too much. He just needs to start believing that it does go on so that I'm not fighting this battle alone. Luckily in the UK where we live there is much less racism, which is why I noticed it suddenly when we were abroad.

 

I don't blame them for the hindrances I've experienced as a white male and I suggest you don't blame your white bf for your experienced issues.

 

Ah it is the opposite; I make it clear to my boyfriend that I do *not* blame him for any of it and that he should *not* feel guilty.