Reasons given for betrayal--preventive measures

[DKT3]

Now here are some more questions for you readers:

 

1 Which of you have never been selfish?

 

I have been much more selfish after being cheated on.

2 How many of you have never entertained the thought of sex with a person that is not your spouse (be honest)

 

I have not. Before marrying my WH, I thought long and hard about whether he would be enough for me.

3 How many of you that have thought of having sex with some not your spouse never allowed that to become an action of cheating because you COUNTED THE COSTS?

 

 

3, I think we've all been there because we are human and people don't stop being sexually appealing because you get married.

 

Why one decides not to greatly varies.

[NTV]

By Blunt

I think that most understand that some are going to be cheaters no matter what. However, I do think that some can be prevented.

My post listed a few bogus reasons why Ruined My Love cheated.

My question was “…what can be some good preventive measures to deal with those reasons?” I gave one preventive measure as reprinted below:

 

 

Not sure if it's feasible in all states or countries but a prenuptial or post nuptial agreement with a specific monetary fine might serve as a deterent. A 20,000 fine if you cheat might have some impact. Again we're just talking about the some that can be prevented. Because then you add something specific to the equation.

 

'I really want to bang him/her.... but do I want it bad enough to pay that much? '

 

The number on the fine is random generated and would obviously be based on class/income/etc.

[Mr Blunt]

By NTV

Not sure if it's feasible in all states or countries but a prenuptial or post nuptial agreement with a specific monetary fine might serve as a deterent. A 20,000 fine if you cheat might have some impact. Again we're just talking about the some that can be prevented. Because then you add something specific to the equation.

 

 

'I really want to bang him/her.... but do I want it bad enough to pay that much? '

 

 

The number on the fine is random generated and would obviously be based on class/income/etc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By Blunt

A fine sounds like a good idea!

 

For most cheaters that get divorced there is already a monetary loss in most cases. When you get divorced you now have to have two homes and pay for utilities. That can add up to more than $20,000. Then there is the case where there are two incomes in the marriage (his/hers). With divorce, resulting in the loss of one income can be substantial!

[Mr Blunt]

1 Which of you have never been selfish?

I have been selfish

 

2 How many of you have never entertained the thought of sex with a person that is not your spouse (be honest)

I have entertained....fantasize is a better word ...the idea

 

3 How many of you that have thought of having sex with some not your spouse never allowed that to become an action of cheating because you COUNTED THE COSTS?

I have never cheated not because I counted the costs but because my personal moral standards regarding loyalty, marriage and relationships are high.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By Blunt

The non-bold above is by AileD

Oustanding AileD, Outstanding!....Your reasons for not cheating is one of the BEST!... I see you as honest and with good character.

[aileD]

1 Which of you have never been selfish?

I have been selfish

 

2 How many of you have never entertained the thought of sex with a person that is not your spouse (be honest)

I have entertained....fantasize is a better word ...the idea

 

3 How many of you that have thought of having sex with some not your spouse never allowed that to become an action of cheating because you COUNTED THE COSTS?

I have never cheated not because I counted the costs but because my personal moral standards regarding loyalty, marriage and relationships are high.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

By Blunt

The non-bold above is by AileD

Oustanding AileD, Outstanding!....Your reasons for not cheating is one of the BEST!... I see you as honest and with good character.

 

Thank you, sir. Sometimes I feel like I was born in the wrong time.

[somanymistakes]

 

By Blunt

A fine sounds like a good idea!

 

For most cheaters that get divorced there is already a monetary loss in most cases. When you get divorced you now have to have two homes and pay for utilities. That can add up to more than $20,000. Then there is the case where there are two incomes in the marriage (his/hers). With divorce, resulting in the loss of one income can be substantial!

 

It's nonsense though - people cheating don't think they'll get caught.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I cannot speak for "cheating" people....I can only speak for me....and for those to speculate about what goes on in the mind of CHEATERS is ridiculous since they have never cheated.

 

Cheating began for me when i decided to keep his phone number instead of throwing it away. I knew it was wrong....and that is when the deception began...because i did NOT tell my husband the om gave me his phone number. I did not count the cost....I did not even think about the cost...so that whole perception is bonk for me. However....I knew it was wrong....and i think this is the place where some of you are making the mistake.

 

This was about morally knowing in my heart that i had crossed a line....and then what happened? nothing. I did not call....however...i began to convince myself that it was ok to keep that phone number.

 

You see how it works?

 

You cross the line with your little toe....you begin to weave validation in your mind and tell yourself...I am not really over the line.

 

So the next move becomes easier. It was not about counting the cost...it was about being morally responsible and accountable.

 

I had no intention of cheating....it was not my agenda. But then i called him to set up a lunch date. AHHHH....the next step. But i knew it was wrong to go to lunch with another man....if it had been morally correct...I would have told my husband. I didn't. Instead I lied to him...I told him I was going to lunch...but i did not tell him it was with another man....huge detail i "forgot" to share.

 

Once again....I had to morally cross the line and validate my behavior to myself. I had time to cancel that date....but i didn't. By the time the lunch date came around...I had convinced myself I was doing nothing wrong. I was having lunch with a friend.

 

You see I...still had a moral compass....I still knew right from wrong...and for me this is much more to the point than "counting the cost"...although i think i understand what you are trying to get at.

 

I dont get up everyday and think about what i might lose if i cheat...I get up everyday and hold myself acountable for my actions....I am morally accountable for what i do and say throughout the day....and this means i dont cheat, i dont lie, i dont steal....it encompasses a whole gammit of morally correct behavior.

 

Anytime we do something that we know is morally wrong...we convince ourselves it is ok. It was a white lie....I only went 5 miles over the speed limit....whatever.... and sometimes we take babysteps...right into infidelity...the whole while validating our behavior and convienantly blaming everybody but ourselves.

 

There is only one person responsible for my cheating....and that person is me. I can slice and dice and manipulate and validate til the cows come home...but the bottom line is still

 

no one made me fall into someome else's bed. I made that choice...I am totally and completely responsible for that decision.

 

NO... I did not count the cost

[JohnAdams]

Adding to my wife's comment. I do think the BS does look at the cost as a major factor of reconciliation or divorce. If I divorced, it had a huge financial cost, one that at that time we really could not afford. If we divorced, I would not get custody of the children and would have to live with my kids being raised by another man. If we divorced I would lose my wife for life. I knew if I divorced it would be forever, there would be no going back.

 

I am a logical person, so, yes I over analyze almost everything. I had a revenge affair and cheating is cheating, however, I do think the motives and results differ in this type of affair. Did I think of the costs? Yes. I think I actually wanted her to kick me out. I felt no emotional attachment to the ow and did not have sex. So, it was a non EA/PA whatever that is, really just an unsuccessful attempt to boost my ego.

 

It is hard to lump all cheating into one bucket. Serial cheaters are certainly in a different bucket.

 

On the cost affects of affairs, I do not think most cheaters pay that much attention to consequences until the affair is disclosed.

[road]

Adding to my wife's comment. I do think the BS does look at the cost as a major factor of reconciliation or divorce. If I divorced, it had a huge financial cost, one that at that time we really could not afford. If we divorced, I would not get custody of the children and would have to live with my kids being raised by another man. If we divorced I would lose my wife for life. I knew if I divorced it would be forever, there would be no going back.

 

I am a logical person, so, yes I over analyze almost everything. I had a revenge affair and cheating is cheating, however, I do think the motives and results differ in this type of affair. Did I think of the costs? Yes. I think I actually wanted her to kick me out. I felt no emotional attachment to the ow and did not have sex. So, it was a non EA/PA whatever that is, really just an unsuccessful attempt to boost my ego.

 

It is hard to lump all cheating into one bucket. Serial cheaters are certainly in a different bucket.

 

On the cost affects of affairs, I do not think most cheaters pay that much attention to consequences until the affair is disclosed.

 

There is no cost because they will not get caught.................

[Mrs. John Adams]

There is no cost because they will not get caught.................

 

I dont think they think about the cost but getting caught has nothing to do with it.

 

If folks really feared getting "caught" and they really "cared" about getting "caught" ...they would not cheat in the first place.

 

I still beleive that had i not confessed...he would never have "caught" me.

 

There are indeed circumstance where the cheating is forever hidden...I beleive there are times it certainly can be done...

 

I will even say had John not told me about his "affair" I would never have known.

 

I think there are more affairs that happen that remain a secret than those who "get caught".

[wmacbride]

BY NTV

We're no more likely to prevent spouses from cheating than we are to stop criminal behavior

 

 

 

 

By Blunt

I think that most understand that some are going to be cheaters no matter what. However, I do think that some can be prevented.

My post listed a few bogus reasons why Ruined My Love cheated.

My question was “…what can be some good preventive measures to deal with those reasons?” I gave one preventive measure as reprinted below:

 

 

 

 

"Selfish…..In the case of being selfish in the form of betrayal of the family, one way is to count the costs. You can cheat and get a sexual or emotional high for a short period but the cost is your loss of self-respect, loss of integrity, damages to your spouse and children, loss of finances, loss of home, Loss of 50% custody of the children, and permanent loss of 100% trust from your spouse. The costs of cheating are so very high and you will lose so much that a sane and balanced person would decide against betrayal IMO."

 

 

Now here are some more questions for you readers:

 

1 Which of you have never been selfish?

 

No offence, but I don't think there is a human alive or dead who has never been selfish.

 

2 How many of you have never entertained the thought of sex with a person that is not your spouse (be honest)

 

I haven't. I'm a true monogamist.

 

3 How many of you that have thought of having sex with some not your spouse never allowed that to become an action of cheating because you COUNTED THE COSTS?

 

 

 

 

 

 

How many of you are brave enough to answer the questions above?

 

I still firmly believe you can't create an affair proof marriage. The best you can do is to be the best spouse you can. After that, it's out of your hands.

[understand50]

I still firmly believe you can't create an affair proof marriage. The best you can do is to be the best spouse you can. After that, it's out of your hands.

 

I truly wish this was so, that you could affair proof a marriage, but human nature being what it is, I do not think so. I do not think anyone really stops to count the costs, of cheating. Cheating lives in the moment and the action leading to it. That is the hell of it. I once posted that everyone has some chance of cheating, that there is a set of circumstance that can lead anyone to cheat. It is different for everyone, as are the odds. This does not mean you do not try and live the best and moral life you can. Yes I could cheat, and maybe the circumstance will come about where I will, but today, I will not. For those that have cheated and then redeemed themselves. They live with what they have done, but it does not have to be their future, if they try and live a good and moral life.

 

 

My two cents.....

[NTV]

It's nonsense though - people cheating don't think they'll get caught.

 

For most cases sure. Some criminals can't live within the law.

 

For others though the risk of paying 250 dollars is enough to keep them from parking in the handicap spot. But

 

If it reduces the rate of infidelity by 2% then wouldn't that be better?

 

Just like if there was a financial incentive to cheat wouldn't it encourage some people to cheat?

 

Yes there are folks who will never ever ever cheat and there are some folks who will never ever ever be faithful. But there are also some folks in the middle who would but don't have the opportunity or those that have plenty of opportunities but just never acted at the time.

 

Not saying that's a big group or a small group. Affair motivation is probably less likely to be statistically accurate than even occurrence numbers.

 

We could try a quadruple blind study though lol.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

I cannot speak for "cheating" people....I can only speak for me....and for those to speculate about what goes on in the mind of CHEATERS is ridiculous since they have never cheated.

 

Cheating began for me when i decided to keep his phone number instead of throwing it away. I knew it was wrong....and that is when the deception began...because i did NOT tell my husband the om gave me his phone number. I did not count the cost....I did not even think about the cost...so that whole perception is bonk for me. However....I knew it was wrong....and i think this is the place where some of you are making the mistake.

 

This was about morally knowing in my heart that i had crossed a line....and then what happened? nothing. I did not call....however...i began to convince myself that it was ok to keep that phone number.

 

You see how it works?

 

You cross the line with your little toe....you begin to weave validation in your mind and tell yourself...I am not really over the line.

 

So the next move becomes easier. It was not about counting the cost...it was about being morally responsible and accountable.

 

I had no intention of cheating....it was not my agenda. But then i called him to set up a lunch date. AHHHH....the next step. But i knew it was wrong to go to lunch with another man....if it had been morally correct...I would have told my husband. I didn't. Instead I lied to him...I told him I was going to lunch...but i did not tell him it was with another man....huge detail i "forgot" to share.

 

Once again....I had to morally cross the line and validate my behavior to myself. I had time to cancel that date....but i didn't. By the time the lunch date came around...I had convinced myself I was doing nothing wrong. I was having lunch with a friend.

 

You see I...still had a moral compass....I still knew right from wrong...and for me this is much more to the point than "counting the cost"...although i think i understand what you are trying to get at.

 

I dont get up everyday and think about what i might lose if i cheat...I get up everyday and hold myself acountable for my actions....I am morally accountable for what i do and say throughout the day....and this means i dont cheat, i dont lie, i dont steal....it encompasses a whole gammit of morally correct behavior.

 

Anytime we do something that we know is morally wrong...we convince ourselves it is ok. It was a white lie....I only went 5 miles over the speed limit....whatever.... and sometimes we take babysteps...right into infidelity...the whole while validating our behavior and convienantly blaming everybody but ourselves.

 

There is only one person responsible for my cheating....and that person is me. I can slice and dice and manipulate and validate til the cows come home...but the bottom line is still

 

no one made me fall into someome else's bed. I made that choice...I am totally and completely responsible for that decision.

 

NO... I did not count the cost

 

That is what I call "The Slow Fade"

[Mr Blunt]

By Mrs John Adams

It was not about counting the cost...it was about being morally responsible and accountable.

 

 

By Blunt

Deciding to be morally responsible and accountable IS part of counting the costs.

 

I have had chances to cheat on several occasions. In addition to my quote reprinted below, I did not want to NOT be morally responsible so I cut those opportunities off because I counted the costs.

 

Mrs. John Adams, I did not specifically include counting the cost of losing your moral responsibility and accountability to my previous quote that is reprinted below. Thank you for reminding me of some more counting the costs that I should have specified to my quote below.

 

 

Quote of Blunt

Selfish…..In the case of being selfish in the form of betrayal of the family, one way is to count the costs. You can cheat and get a sexual or emotional high for a short period but the cost is your loss of self-respect, loss of integrity, damages to your spouse and children, loss of finances, loss of home, Loss of 50% custody of the children, and permanent loss of 100% trust from your spouse. The costs of cheating are so very high and you will lose so much that a sane and balanced person would decide against betrayal IMO."

 

 

 

 

 

 

By Mrs. John Adams

I did not count the cost....I did not even think about the cost...so that whole perception is bonk for me

 

 

 

By Blunt

If you did think about the costs would that have given you pause?

[Mr Blunt]

By Mr. John Adams

I do think the BS does look at the cost as a major factor of reconciliation or divorce

 

 

 

By Blunt

Absolutely John!

And I counted the cost of cheating and decide NOT to cheat.

[Mrs. John Adams]

By Mrs John Adams

It was not about counting the cost...it was about being morally responsible and accountable.

 

 

By Blunt

Deciding to be morally responsible and accountable IS part of counting the costs.

 

I have had chances to cheat on several occasions. In addition to my quote reprinted below, I did not want to NOT be morally responsible so I cut those opportunities off because I counted the costs.

 

Mrs. John Adams, I did not specifically include counting the cost of losing your moral responsibility and accountability to my previous quote that is reprinted below. Thank you for reminding me of some more counting the costs that I should have specified to my quote below.

 

 

Quote of Blunt

Selfish…..In the case of being selfish in the form of betrayal of the family, one way is to count the costs. You can cheat and get a sexual or emotional high for a short period but the cost is your loss of self-respect, loss of integrity, damages to your spouse and children, loss of finances, loss of home, Loss of 50% custody of the children, and permanent loss of 100% trust from your spouse. The costs of cheating are so very high and you will lose so much that a sane and balanced person would decide against betrayal IMO."

 

 

 

 

 

 

By Mrs. John Adams

I did not count the cost....I did not even think about the cost...so that whole perception is bonk for me

 

 

 

By Blunt

If you did think about the costs would that have given you pause?

If i had really "thought" about it....if i had really evaluated it...i would never had cheated....and i seriously doubt most would.

 

However...when caught up in the moment...my point was...most are simply thinking about themselves and no one else....not their spouse...not their children...not their parents....not their God...and certainly not what may happen as a result.

[Mr Blunt]

By Mrs. John Adams

If i had really "thought" about it....if i had really evaluated it...i would never had cheated....and i seriously doubt most would.

 

 

However...when caught up in the moment...my point was...most are simply thinking about themselves and no one else....not their spouse...not their children...not their parents....not their God...and certainly not what may happen as a result

 

 

 

 

 

 

By blunt

I am sure that your point is right about those that think only of themselves and not what happens; my wife was one of them. I am fully aware of those that are not going to be deterred from betrayal.

 

However, I am directing my preventive disaster posts to those that can be reminded of the cost, consider the costs, and decide NOT to cheat. There are some that betrayal can be avoided; I know that to be true for me and it can be true for others.

 

I am confident you are one that is fully aware of the costs and will not cheat. You and others have done a very good job of explaining the costs in many of your past posts and I hope that some will take your words and others seriously and decide NOT to cheat. That is the purpose of this thread.

[cocorico]

Selfish…..In the case of being selfish in the form of betrayal of the family, one way is to count the costs. You can cheat and get a sexual or emotional high for a short period but the cost is your loss of self-respect, loss of integrity, damages to your spouse and children, loss of finances, loss of home, Loss of 50% custody of the children, and permanent loss of 100% trust from your spouse. The costs of cheating are so very high and you will lose so much that a sane and balanced person would decide against betrayal IMO

 

 

My H (fMM) was one who did "count the costs" before deciding to engage in an A. It was part of the negotiations I insisted on before we began. I needed to be sure we both agreed on ground rules, and that he was fully conversant regarding potential fallout on his side. He considered the "costs", both inevitable (e.g. Changes to how he would be able to perceive himself) vs potential (if she found out) and still considered the benefits far higher (e.g. Being able to stick it out for longer in his toxic M before forcing another split on the kids).

 

In the event, the ultimate costs turned out far lower than he'd imagined - the kids opted to be with us, even though he agreement said 50/5;, he "lost" the home only for a year (during the D process) before buying her out; no loss of finance (he's way better off now, without her compulsive spending hitting their joint expenditure) and he's worked through the issues concerning self-concept in IC.

 

However, the long and bitter process of ending that M taught him that it's far better to pull the plug early, rather than hanging in there trying to make things better for everyone else - because ultimately that's not sustainable and even though he thought he was doing it "for the kids" because of how they struggled with the first split, in reality they were far happier once the decision was taken and the M ended.

[understand50]

My H (fMM) was one who did "count the costs" before deciding to engage in an A. It was part of the negotiations I insisted on before we began. I needed to be sure we both agreed on ground rules, and that he was fully conversant regarding potential fallout on his side. He considered the "costs", both inevitable (e.g. Changes to how he would be able to perceive himself) vs potential (if she found out) and still considered the benefits far higher (e.g. Being able to stick it out for longer in his toxic M before forcing another split on the kids).

 

In the event, the ultimate costs turned out far lower than he'd imagined - the kids opted to be with us, even though he agreement said 50/5;, he "lost" the home only for a year (during the D process) before buying her out; no loss of finance (he's way better off now, without her compulsive spending hitting their joint expenditure) and he's worked through the issues concerning self-concept in IC.

 

However, the long and bitter process of ending that M taught him that it's far better to pull the plug early, rather than hanging in there trying to make things better for everyone else - because ultimately that's not sustainable and even though he thought he was doing it "for the kids" because of how they struggled with the first split, in reality they were far happier once the decision was taken and the M ended.

 

cocorico,

 

You and your husband are exception to the rules. In most cases marriage between the AP and BS do not turn out well. Your husband used this as a exit from a unhappy marriage, and that of course turns Mr. Blunts case on its head. He did count the cost and it was positive for him.

 

I think his main idea of, if one can stop and see what they could lose, and what pain and hurt will be inflicted, may make them not go ahead. Unfortunately, most of us, get cought up in the momment and just do not think. It is part of the human condition. Yes, in a perfect world, we would think about what the consequences are before we take the first step, but we do not, and it leads little step to little step until faced with doing the last and largest betrayal, we then comprise ourself. I do have compassion for those that can get cought up in this, but I also hold them too account. I have a lot of respect for those that confess and hold themselves accountable and accept all the consequences and work to trying to make things "right" or as "right" as they can.

 

I also, try and point out the I have lots of respect for those that do start down the path and stop before it gets physical. The man or woman, finding themselves in a EA, and steps back before PA, deserves much credit. We do find here that they take lots of "blow" back. Yes they were wrong, but they self fixed and remained true.

 

I would have had way less pain, if my then G/F, had just made out and stopped herself before going to her room with her OM. Same as if when she started to get really out of control with her spending , she had come to me and confess here overspending and raiding our accounts. That does show some self control, and a willingness to think and put their "loved" one before their own selfish needs and wants. That is also part of the pain and hurt of betrayal, it is knowing at that point, you were not even worth thinking about or what the impact to you would be. At that point in time, it as if you did not count for them. You were nothing.

 

My two cents......

[wmacbride]

My H (fMM) was one who did "count the costs" before deciding to engage in an A. It was part of the negotiations I insisted on before we began. I needed to be sure we both agreed on ground rules, and that he was fully conversant regarding potential fallout on his side. He considered the "costs", both inevitable (e.g. Changes to how he would be able to perceive himself) vs potential (if she found out) and still considered the benefits far higher (e.g. Being able to stick it out for longer in his toxic M before forcing another split on the kids).

 

In the event, the ultimate costs turned out far lower than he'd imagined - the kids opted to be with us, even though he agreement said 50/5;, he "lost" the home only for a year (during the D process) before buying her out; no loss of finance (he's way better off now, without her compulsive spending hitting their joint expenditure) and he's worked through the issues concerning self-concept in IC.

 

However, the long and bitter process of ending that M taught him that it's far better to pull the plug early, rather than hanging in there trying to make things better for everyone else - because ultimately that's not sustainable and even though he thought he was doing it "for the kids" because of how they struggled with the first split, in reality they were far happier once the decision was taken and the M ended.

 

Didn't his kids beg him to come back the first time he left? How old were they at the time?

[cocorico]

Didn't his kids beg him to come back the first time he left? How old were they at the time?

 

He didn't leave the first time - she did (after attacking him physically in front of them).

 

She begged him to take her back (after things didn't work out with her OM). He did (after she made promises) because of how badly the kids had taken the split. They were pre-teens.