Dealing with someone else's kids

[viatori patuit]

Greetings -

 

I am happily involved with a fine lady and I am happy to say we are planning on getting married.

 

now if you check my posts, you will see I have on occasion posted about her less desirable approach to conflict management. I am certainly not blaming her for everything as I also have my faults.

 

What concerns me now is her children. I have no issue with them per se, and I certainly know they come first (certainly ahead of me). I am fine with this state of affairs. I love hanging out with her kids, and I certainly do not mind them being around. We interact very well and they treat me as a surrogate parent which I am fine with.

 

I need to say this directly - they are her kids. Hers, not mine. I have zero legal right to them nor will I ever (the kids father is involved in their life). She seems to want me to be surrogate father (which is fine) but she also wants to split the kid expenses and duties down the middle. To me this is not exactly what I envisioned. I don't mind paying for some things with them, but they are not my kids. Things like meals and incidentals are cool, but things like airline tickets and bigger expenses just are not necessarily my responsibility. Worse, I don't think she realizes how entitled she comes across by demanding I cover that type of thing. I would at the least like gratitude for helping out. I have purchased tickets for her children to go India and China for instance. I don't mind doing it, but I would appreciate a thank you or at least acknowledgement that I did not have to do that.

 

So, how do I broach this subject? She does not take kindly to most discussions of this nature, and they can be difficult to have as she can be emotional and volatile particularly when we are discussing sensitive issues like her children. She will calm down and work through the issues eventually, so it is short term pain. I just want to lessen that pain. I cannot seem to get her to focus on solving the issue - she seems to want to play blame games and "you do it too" type things. God knows how she will do that here, but rest assured she will.

 

The best solution I have to date is to simply stop the discussion when it gets heated (prior to me getting upset). Of course we never finish this discussion like this as we stop it prior to getting resolution.

[rester]

In your first thread you state,

I do not think we have any sort of giant issues or red flags that should derail us.

yet you have three threads worth of issues and red flags. The overriding one is your inability to communicate or discuss things with your girlfriend.

 

I would reconsider marriage until you can learn to communicate with each other without her blowing her top. You don't want to live walking on eggshells all the time and you can't push issues aside just because she can't or doesn't want to discuss them.

 

And if you can't discuss finances in a reasonable manner I don't think marriage is a good idea.

[todreaminblue]

its not your responsibility even after marriage...its on your discretion ...like a family holiday for instance...cant expect the father of kids ot pay for a family holiday once married you want to take with the kids.....and airfares and the like should be between legal responsible parents...i have full custody of my kids but my ex is allowed anytime to say eh wants to have them my kids are grown bu tit has always been that way....if they fly down i pay half always have....and he was with someone...who he has now split up with......their finances were always serparate they had my kids on their private health fund ....didnt cost them anymore than what they were paying......the ex of my ex ...lol....ahem...the ex of my ex now wants the girls to cone visit her anytime they are down her way adn she wants them to stay with her if my ex hasnt hsi own place...... and was really upset at the thought she would not have contact with my girls again....they rang her for her birthday yesterday....and she rang my ex and said what a credit they were and what beautiful girls they are........

 

i cant as a decent person make anyone grieve over losing family...........and i am glad that she feels so much for my girls...i wont stop her from seeing them ....even if it might be awkward at first.....when and if my girls stay with her i would expect my girls to pay for their own food and offer money for power and phone and in appreciation offer money for being allowed to stay there.....teaches them to be mindful......his ex has never had to pay for my girls unless she wanted to take them out......for dinner or a movie or whatever and expressly said my shout.....

 

 

if i were with anyone the same deal.....he wouldnt have to pay for my girls or kids unless he wanted too...and if i wanted my kids to go somewhere with us and i was broke and they were broke i would find free things....like beach days...picnic lunches that i made myself......dinners outdoors i bought myself like bbq stuff.......i dont want to be bought and i dont want my girls to be bought either.....i owe no man.....if i was too split with a guy i was serious about.....he would always have my girls in his life as long as he wanted to ..because if I was serious and considering marriage he would have already become part of my family.....my girls are nearly all over the age of 18 one has a job and the other supports herself anyway.....

 

im nto lookign fro aguy with money ...i wouldnt fit in because i have always had my own finances and would feel guilty if it were me always being shouted and i woudltn be able to do things with the guy i loved as often as i would like too.......i would feel indebted..obligated....and i dont want that obligation to be anything but rooted in love......never money...or had that held over me.....single mother gold digger paranoid crap......i am the opposite....

 

 

the reason why i have told you my experiences is because they are solid safe ..honest..reliable actions..... and they work..they have proven to be successful.....for years.......even when relationships end....my system works...and how i have bought my girls up.....they are noted as being unique beautiful and different.....

 

i think you should be honest with how you feel and if you cannot come to some form of compromise getting married would be a mistake.....you will resetn her and her children and that isnt fair on anyone.......deb

Edited April 12, 2017 by todreaminblue

[viatori patuit]

In your first thread you state, yet you have three threads worth of issues and red flags. The overriding one is your inability to communicate or discuss things with your girlfriend.

 

I would reconsider marriage until you can learn to communicate with each other without her blowing her top. You don't want to live walking on eggshells all the time and you can't push issues aside just because she can't or doesn't want to discuss them.

 

And if you can't discuss finances in a reasonable manner I don't think marriage is a good idea.

 

I have actually thought about this off and on. Here is my take fwiw:

 

Conflict resolution is an art, not a science. I do find her propensity to blow up difficult at times. But I also realize no one is perfect. Every partner I have had has had their quirks with which I had to learn to deal. This one is not awful compared to infidelity (which one partner was).

 

So long as she gets the point I am willing to accept her approach. If she stops considering my point then we have an issue. I can't in good conscience only look at part of the equation. Clearly I am just as issue prone since I am human as well.

 

To be honest, I am not 100% sure I am not misreading the situation. Maybe I am being selfish and inconsiderate. It certainly is a possibility. She isn't posting here to tell her side.

[Blanco]

I would tread carefully. I agree it is asking a lot of you to expect things regarding the kids to be split equally, especially when the bio dad is still involved. Does he not pay child support? Where is that money going?

 

She has done you a favor by showing you how she receives your generosity regarding her children: With indifference.

 

It's strange: I know plenty of good women who would be content with just having a good guy around who was willing to be a dad to their child(ren). That in and of itself is a major thing, especially when the guy has no children of his own. Unfortunately, there are also no shortage of women who seem to think that paying equal amount for the kids' expenses is simply part of the territory of dating/marrying a single mother, and for that, the guy isn't really to be praised for it.

 

I was in a not totally, but somewhere similar situation. The father was gone, but the kids received a monthly sum for his absence. At the time, she and I and her children were living together, though not married. Their monthly payments were more than enough to cover things such as food, clothes, birthday/Christmas, and some outings. As such, I didn't usually chip in with such things, since the mother's own money was only covering a small portion of it.

 

Only much later on did I find out that this arrangement wasn't to her liking, and she thought it was unusual that I wasn't kicking in more for her children's expenses. The fact that I cared for them as they were my own, bonded with them, and did a lot of the usual dad things; well, none of that seemed to matter. It was one of those moments where I further realized that she was mostly just looking for an able body to help her raise the kiddos.

 

In your situation, even if you communicate with her, I would not expect her views on this to change. At best, she will begrudgingly go along with it, but you can bet it'll be used against you at a later time.

[somanymistakes]

I need to say this directly - they are her kids. Hers, not mine. I have zero legal right to them nor will I ever (the kids father is involved in their life). She seems to want me to be surrogate father (which is fine) but she also wants to split the kid expenses and duties down the middle. To me this is not exactly what I envisioned. I don't mind paying for some things with them, but they are not my kids. Things like meals and incidentals are cool, but things like airline tickets and bigger expenses just are not necessarily my responsibility. Worse, I don't think she realizes how entitled she comes across by demanding I cover that type of thing.

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Are these adult children? Your attitude would make some sense then, but you call them 'kids'.

 

If you are a stepfather to young children and they are living with you, it is NOT 'entitled' at all to expect you to share in the expenses of the upbringing. They will be your family. They are part of the package that comes with her.

 

I don't know anything about your backstory or the state of this relationship, I'm just going on what you've posted here. I don't understand what you're talking about when you say you have no 'legal right' to them - you may not be adopting them and they may still have their first father but that doesn't make you not a parent. If you want to go on a family vacation with your new wife and kids of course you would help pay their travel expenses... if some other major cost issue like a medical problem occurred in one of the children's lives I would expect ALL the parents to chip in. Mother, father, mother's husband, father's wife... how much would depend on what resources you all had available and how involved in the kid's life you were, but the responsibility would belong to all of you.

 

Becoming a step-parent involves responsibility on your part, not just 'hanging out' with kids.

 

Now, if her kids are were already over 18 when you two got together that is a different story and you should not be expected to take a full share of responsibility for people you were never really a Parent to.

[todreaminblue]

I would tread carefully. I agree it is asking a lot of you to expect things regarding the kids to be split equally, especially when the bio dad is still involved. Does he not pay child support? Where is that money going?

 

She has done you a favor by showing you how she receives your generosity regarding her children: With indifference.

 

It's strange: I know plenty of good women who would be content with just having a good guy around who was willing to be a dad to their child(ren). That in and of itself is a major thing, especially when the guy has no children of his own. Unfortunately, there are also no shortage of women who seem to think that paying equal amount for the kids' expenses is simply part of the territory of dating/marrying a single mother, and for that, the guy isn't really to be praised for it.

 

I was in a not totally, but somewhere similar situation. The father was gone, but the kids received a monthly sum for his absence. At the time, she and I and her children were living together, though not married. Their monthly payments were more than enough to cover things such as food, clothes, birthday/Christmas, and some outings. As such, I didn't usually chip in with such things, since the mother's own money was only covering a small portion of it.

 

Only much later on did I find out that this arrangement wasn't to her liking, and she thought it was unusual that I wasn't kicking in more for her children's expenses. The fact that I cared for them as they were my own, bonded with them, and did a lot of the usual dad things; well, none of that seemed to matter. It was one of those moments where I further realized that she was mostly just looking for an able body to help her raise the kiddos.

 

In your situation, even if you communicate with her, I would not expect her views on this to change. At best, she will begrudgingly go along with it, but you can bet it'll be used against you at a later time.

 

in her defense .....they have not spoken i feel enough or discussed issues and laid down ground rules.....expectations....goals values wishes and needs ......so i feel its hard to know what is really going on ...as op said himself she isnt here and he may be mistaken...if i were him ....i would be wanting to get rid of any feelings of apprehension by mature discussion to deal with every point he has a problem with...with compassion compromise and a view of a future together as a family unit .........but thats me....and im not male..i liked what you said about bonding and such...

 

 

i feel thats what marriage and family is about those bonds....and it doesnt go around money those bonds like a money clip ..the bond is for going around hearts ......and wanting the best for the children you are with bio or not.....you should want to be their male role model they look up too an advisor ...a confidante ...even a best friend with clout who they can come too when they are low and need comforting......an investment in them and their future ...not invest fro them...with a bank account.......so i found what you wrote for the most part....refreshing........deb

[mrs rubble]

I have never expected any of my boyfriends and my now husband to pay for any of my children's expenses. That is my responsibility, just as I would never pay for his children's expenses, his responsibility.

I would have the discussion based around her child support and her budget and how she can make it work, so that you aren't paying.

It sounds like she is very ungrateful and entitled. I couldn't put up with that.

[Blanco]

I read OP's other threads about this relationship. Maaaan, I don't know. Seems like a powder keg.

 

Out of curiosity, what kind of age gap are we dealing with here.

[Blanco]

i feel thats what marriage and family is about those bonds....and it doesnt go around money those bonds like a money clip ..the bond is for going around hearts ......and wanting the best for the children you are with bio or not.....you should want to be their male role model they look up too an advisor ...a confidante ...even a best friend with clout who they can come too when they are low and need comforting......an investment in them and their future ...not invest fro them...with a bank account.......so i found what you wrote for the most part....refreshing........deb

 

Thanks, deb. It's been several years, but I still fiercely miss those kids every day, even though I am well moved past wanting to be romantically involved with their mother. Her son, especially, was such a ray of light on my day. I don't have children of my own, but I cannot imagine loving a child any more than I did him, even if it was my own. I had hundreds of photos of them, whereas I probably had a dozen or so with just me and my ex, just to give you an idea of what kept me hanging in there for so long.

 

Despite this, it was rare for her to ever acknowledge any of this. I wasn't bonding with her children to win points, but I'll admit it was frustrating at times how so much of my connection with them was seemingly taken for granted, all the while the most minute thing I did "wrong" was called out and examined.

 

I guess this is why I'm a bit suspect of the OP's relationship. I think he's been a bit selfish on his own getting seriously involved with a woman despite not being divorced. At the same time, some of what he says in his other threads makes me suspect his value to this woman is chiefly in the lifestyle he can provide for her and her children.

[todreaminblue]

Thanks, deb. It's been several years, but I still fiercely miss those kids every day, even though I am well moved past wanting to be romantically involved with their mother. Her son, especially, was such a ray of light on my day. I don't have children of my own, but I cannot imagine loving a child any more than I did him, even if it was my own. I had hundreds of photos of them, whereas I probably had a dozen or so with just me and my ex, just to give you an idea of what kept me hanging in there for so long.

 

Despite this, it was rare for her to ever acknowledge any of this. I wasn't bonding with her children to win points, but I'll admit it was frustrating at times how so much of my connection with them was seemingly taken for granted, all the while the most minute thing I did "wrong" was called out and examined.

 

I guess this is why I'm a bit suspect of the OP's relationship. I think he's been a bit selfish on his own getting seriously involved with a woman despite not being divorced. At the same time, some of what he says in his other threads makes me suspect his value to this woman is chiefly in the lifestyle he can provide for her and her children.

 

 

 

i am sure wihtout any doubt that son who you have hundreds of photos with, that was like your own ...misses you too...breakups are horrible but what is more horrible is when kids are involved..i think that is when adults need to drop the selfishness and think of those they profess to love.....and let exes have contact even if not bio......

 

 

family is family blood or not and he was your family and you two bonded...its rather cruel....connections however taken forgranted are real and have heart...its cruel to deny connections a life because beleive me ...connections like the one you have(notice i say have because it isnt dead) want to grow...big time..............im sorry .....i really am....i hope in the future you may see him again and remember the good times you had together.....smilin.....you never know.....i wish you well ...deb

[viatori patuit]

Interesting stuff so far.

 

I will give a bit more information.

 

THe kids are 2 and 6. She is 5 years younger. Their biological dad pays less than 500 a month in child support and lives in another state.

 

I am not as concerned about the emotional nature she has. Like I say, we seem to work it out. I think I am certainly part of that equation. On her own she is fairly calm as am I. We have been in a pressure cooker on occasion from outside issues. Learning about someone with screaming kids has been different, that is for sure.

 

As for my divorce, well hopefully it will be done in a few months. My soon to be ex simply refuses to negotiate. It has been nearly two years, so that is not exactly new. The trial is in June and that is certain to be the end as we did not have kids.

[Gemma1]

What kind of plane tickets are we talking about here? Trips that all of you guys went on?

 

And are you planning on merging finances completely (joint bank accounts)?

[aileD]

I didn't have time to read all replies so forgive me if I repeat or missed info.

 

But the way I see it, you're not just marrying her. You're marrying her kids too--in a sense. You're going to be a family, even if they aren't yours biologically and even if their father is in their life. Why would you want to be so petty about finances?

 

I don't think you should marry someone if you wouldn't love their children like they were your own.

 

My stepfather never made me feel I was anything but his daughter and he still calls me that even though he's been divorced from my mom for 18 years.

 

I do see an issue with ungratefulness and that should be addressed. I didn't read your back posts so not sure of other issues. But you talk about her children rather .....detached. Maybe it's just how you worded your post. But do you love her kids???

[Blanco]

What does she do for work?

[aileD]

I just read that the kids are 2 and 6 and the dad lives out of state.

 

Dude. YOU'RE THE DAD. The kids are going to remember you as dad, not some guy who doesn't live near them and doesn't see them often.

 

If you marry her, you carry this weight and you better be prepared for it. Those kids are your kids. It's unreasonable to expect you NOT to be involved financially in their lives

 

And yes. We all want to know what kind of plane tickets we are talking about. Are these trips you took together or are y'all sending the kids off alone to meet someone else (dad, relatives)????

 

You're a family, a young family. Or you will be. Blood doesn't matter at 2 and 6.

 

It's bizarre to me you are balking st talking this on.

[Blanco]

Yeah, I actually have to agree. When you said the dad was involved, I assumed that meant he was local and saw them maybe every week or something. Unless he is doing a ton of driving, he's likely not seeing them a lot, and at their age, you will absolutely be more "dad" to them than he will.

 

Please do not take this aspect lightly. I haven't read anything that makes me think you view the kids as baggage, but at their age, you are going to be way more involved in dad duties than you would be if they were teenagers.

 

My ex's youngest was about the age of your fiance's youngest, and by time we parted ways, he definitely thought I was his dad, even though we had continued to have the kids call me by my name.

[lolablue17]

I think you should reduce immediately the amount of money you pay for her children, with the explanation that you don't want to hurt their real dad, by letting them think you're their dad. She can argue until the end of the universe, but THIS IS HOW YOU FEEL, and no one can argue with feelings. You can even contact their real dad, telling him that you respect him and his position with the kids by never allow them to be confused about it.

 

By doing that, look what you've done - You changed the equation from "You're not satisfied", to "her is not satisfied". From now on, if she's not satisfied, she will start raising the subject, and it will be discussed by your terms.

 

And you cannot be blamed for acting hostile because you do it (not paying) only for a good reason (you do not wish to take their dad's place in their heart, and children can tell)

 

The risk - She might become hostile, but she's trapped too. If she starts demanding you to pay, she looks ridiculous. If she demands that, it looks like she only wants your wallet and doesn't care about your love. Stop paying for their expensive stuff. I think it's completely fair.

Edited April 12, 2017 by lolablue17

[todreaminblue]

at two and 6 the majority of their life is going to be spent with you and their mum...you are the dad.....as another poster put it...you need to speak to her.....as soon as possible...deb

[anika99]

You need to sit down with her and decide how the two of you are going to handle the finances before you get married.

 

When my kids were still at home I had a long term (9yrs) boyfriend whom I lived with. Guess we were common law. Neither of us made a ton of money but he made slightly more than me. We pooled our money together and all expenses came out of that pool which included expenses for my children. I did not get any child support from their father as it was back in a time when child support wasn't really enforced. I was very appreciative and grateful to my boyfriend for his financial contribution to our family and family is the keyword in that both he and I considered each other and my kids a family. He wasn't my roommate, he wasn't just my boyfriend, we were a family.

 

My kids knew he wasn't their biological father but they looked at him as a parental figure and referred to him as their stepfather. It doesn't sound like you're really embracing the kids, more like you are accepting their presence because you know you have to in order to be with the mom but you want to draw a clear line between them and you. You want to make sure that everyone is clear that they are not your children and not your responsibility. I'm not saying that is necessarily wrong. If you don't want be embraced into their family, if you wish to remain the guy mom married rather than becoming a parent and a full fledged member of the family then I guess that's your prerogative but you should probably be communicate that to your wife to be before you marry her.

 

Also want to add that my mom got married when I was almost ten. My stepfather adopted me and I took his last name. He had a lot of problems and was a bit of a mental case but to his credit he never ever acted or made me feel like I was less than his child. When my mom got pregnant and he became the breadwinner so she could stay home and raise their baby son he supported me just as he supported his baby. Bought my clothes, paid for my dental appointments, put a roof over my head and fed me just like he did for his own child. He and my mom agreed on this arrangement. You're entitled to want a different kind of arrangement but your soon to wife should be filled in on how you are picturing this arrangement before the wedding.

[amaysngrace]

As soon as you bought the plane tickets the very first time you helped set the tone of your relationship.

 

Why are you mad about it now and just blaming her and her actions for the situation that you've helped create?

[FoundLove]

My husband has 3 daughters from a previous marriage and he has never expected me to pay anything as he knows they are not my responsibility. That's why they have a mom and a dad.

 

You should set boundaries before the wedding. She must know exactly how you feel about this or you will always end up fighting over the children, which will not go down well as her children will always be a priority.

 

Just a firm "It is not my responsibility to pay for your children - they have you and their father to provide for them" should be the end of that discussion.

[AMarriedMan]

I would tread carefully. I agree it is asking a lot of you to expect things regarding the kids to be split equally, especially when the bio dad is still involved. Does he not pay child support? Where is that money going?

 

That is a very good question. Is she spending that money on clothes, shoes, bags or something?

 

She has done you a favor by showing you how she receives your generosity regarding her children: With indifference.

 

This.

 

It's strange: I know plenty of good women who would be content with just having a good guy around who was willing to be a dad to their child(ren). That in and of itself is a major thing, especially when the guy has no children of his own.

 

Absolutely. Calculating the monetary value of the concrete services rendered would amount to quite a bit. Then there are the intangibles like being a respectable male role model.

 

Unfortunately, there are also no shortage of women who seem to think that paying equal amount for the kids' expenses is simply part of the territory of dating/marrying a single mother, and for that, the guy isn't really to be praised for it.

 

Men eschew single mothers as potential mates. That's why a man who agrees to live with one can usually get a hotter woman than he would otherwise be able to get based on his mating market value. In turn, the single mother may reasonably expect the man to chip in with the kid's expenses in compensation for his relative deficiency in attractiveness.

 

I was in a not totally, but somewhere similar situation. The father was gone, but the kids received a monthly sum for his absence. At the time, she and I and her children were living together, though not married. Their monthly payments were more than enough to cover things such as food, clothes, birthday/Christmas, and some outings. As such, I didn't usually chip in with such things, since the mother's own money was only covering a small portion of it.

 

Only much later on did I find out that this arrangement wasn't to her liking, and she thought it was unusual that I wasn't kicking in more for her children's expenses. The fact that I cared for them as they were my own, bonded with them, and did a lot of the usual dad things; well, none of that seemed to matter. It was one of those moments where I further realized that she was mostly just looking for an able body to help her raise the kiddos.

 

In your situation, even if you communicate with her, I would not expect her views on this to change. At best, she will begrudgingly go along with it, but you can bet it'll be used against you at a later time.

 

I would never move in with a single mother or even date one, for that matter. The downsides are obvious. Women tend to be costly no matter what but when there are kids involved the cost tends to be at a different level altogether. The step-father has no legal rights whatsoever when it comes to the kids despite the fact he may have lived with them for years and bonded with them deeply. If the mother wants him out of the picture, he has absolutely no recourse and is in a much weaker position than the bio dad. Despite that, the step father may even be liable to pay child support under some circumstances post-divorce.

 

If I were single again, the only single mothers I might be interested in would be those uninterested in another serious relationship and only interested in occasional sex and an adult man's companionship.

[elaine567]

YOU cannot expect to marry a woman with such young children and expect to separate yourself from the responsibility of raising them and that includes the financial responsibility.

 

The bio father has essentially abandoned them apart from the 500 a month payments. As he lives out of state and they are very young then I guess he is not going to play a huge role in their lives.

I think that 500 should go into the marriage pot, and you are then a married couple WITH children. YOU cannot go into this with the mentality of simply marrying a woman. This woman comes with the added complication of having very young children and you need to accept that responsibility totally or just walk away.

 

As you do not seem to be suited to the role of step father, I am not exactly sure why you are in fact dating a woman WITH young children in the first place.

Maybe with your thoughts on step-children, you would be better finding a single woman to date.

 

(BTW this child is only two, are you sure she is really over her last relationship?)

Seems you have just jumped out of the frying pan into the fire here...

Be very careful.

[road]

Do not marry. Tell her good bye for your expectations and

hers are not and never will be compatible.