Author symphony1125 Posted July 30, 2005 Author Share Posted July 30, 2005 Challenge her? How? What do you mean? Also, it's just unfathomable how she could see me prioritizing sex over love... I mean, if I thought that way, I wouldn't take the time, or put in the sincerity like I do with her... I mean it's purely logical how I think and work at our relationship... Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Originally posted by symphony1125 ...it's just unfathomable how she could see me prioritizing sex over love... I mean, if I thought that way, I wouldn't take the time, or put in the sincerity like I do with her... I mean it's purely logical how I think and work at our relationship... It doesn't have to be "logical". It's emotional....for her anyway. Men and women are NOT the same. We think and react differently. You are arguing about sex. Therefore, sex is YOUR priority. Right or wrong, that'll be how she sees it. She doesn't understand your emotional connection in the physical act. That's not a feeling she can readily identify with. Link to post Share on other sites
Author symphony1125 Posted July 30, 2005 Author Share Posted July 30, 2005 Does that mean that I should take an emotional outlook the next time I bring up the subject and not a logical one?? And if your answer is yes, then well you'll have to shed a bit of insight as how to do that, seeing as how getting my wife to talk about anything remotely hard, is kind of like pulling teeth. Link to post Share on other sites
westernxer Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Originally posted by Ladyjane14 Here it is: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t49416//15-1?highlight=flavius Flavius employs way too many emoticons... they detract from whatever he was trying to say. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Originally posted by symphony1125 Does that mean that I should take an emotional outlook the next time I bring up the subject and not a logical one?? . no, what you need to do SYMPHONY1125 is the exact opposite of what you've been doing. if you've been nice and understnading then be mean and impatient. If you've been sensitive then be insensitive. Start drinking heavily if you've not been drinking in the past. Change it up. Be exciting and dramatic and unpredictable. Remember that episode of Seinfeld where George started doing the opposite of what he would normally do? Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Originally posted by symphony1125 Does that mean that I should take an emotional outlook the next time I bring up the subject and not a logical one?? And if your answer is yes, then well you'll have to shed a bit of insight as how to do that, seeing as how getting my wife to talk about anything remotely hard, is kind of like pulling teeth. Yep! And you'll have to be persistant too. Unfortunately, some women can NEVER make the leap of faith that it takes. We can't think like a man, any more than YOU can think like a woman. It's like teaching a fish to fly or a bird to swim. She has to take it on faith that your feelings are incomprehensible to her....and yet still IMPORTANT. You have to do the same. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Originally posted by westernxer Flavius employs way too many emoticons... they detract from whatever he was trying to say. Link to post Share on other sites
SoleMate Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Symphony, glad you're reading the books and getting some benefit from them. I'm so sorry to hear about your wife's attitude. Do you get the feeling she's being flippant? Or is she seriously suggesting that you should accept a sex-free marriage or divorce? Here's a line that you might want to try before too many more months go by: "Start reading the book and discussing it honestly with me by the 15th of this month, or I am moving out of the house as a way to let you know how big of a crisis I consider this to be. I am very committed to you and to this marriage and family, but I am at the end of my rope on the sex issue. I can't go without sex, and all I really want is to be close and intimate with you, the woman I love." DON'T let this slide - don't let her brush you off - you are at high risk for an affair and/or divorce, and your wife needs to know this. I truly feel for you, best wishes, keep posting. Link to post Share on other sites
midlifecrazy Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 LadyJ this sounds so familiar I'm still trying to figure out how long this guy has been married to my wife. Link to post Share on other sites
Author symphony1125 Posted July 31, 2005 Author Share Posted July 31, 2005 sole mate, thanx for the great advice, i'll give it a go, and to answer the above post...2 years is how long i've been married to your wife lol. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Originally posted by midlifecrazy LadyJ this sounds so familiar I'm still trying to figure out how long this guy has been married to my wife. That's too funny! That's why I have such confidence that you'll do well, MLC.....because your humor is still intact. Mismatched libidos is such a huge problem in marriage. I do wish that I had better words for the solution for you guys, because SO MANY of you are dealing with it. I doubt that it helps you much, but ....it's no picnic for the wife either. Emotionally she feels minimized and depersonalized in the process of dealing it. Often she's overburdened and overwhelmed , trying to meet all the damands placed on her in today's modern world. Sex can be just one more chore on a otherwise pretty long 'to-do' list. Maybe that's why threats and ultimatums don't really work. They only tend to escalate the problems. The husband might get what he wants, at least temporarily....but it'll likely be given begrudgingly. Then, after a time, the problem will crop up again, because it was never really solved. And what's worse is that the commonality of the problem suggests that even if you change partners...you could very well be looking at the same situation 5 years down the pike. I'm the only one that I know of, posting to this thread, who has solved this problem AND remained married to the same partner. But sadly, I don't have the words to describe the solution to you. I know that in my marriage, it took a crisis for me to see how much importance my husband places on this issue. And it wasn't the threat of losing the marriage that caused me to see it. I had already prepared myself for divorce. I had already LOST my marriage. After our initial confrontation, when I told him in no uncertain terms that the marriage was over, and in a moment when I didn't even care why he had done what he did...the lightbulb came on. What I finally saw, was my husband's pain, his vulnerability. It was the realization that, even though my own feelings had been very badly hurt....the damage to him had been devastating. And it was ME that had caused his pain, because I had dismissed his complaints for YEARS as being of less priority than the hurt he was causing to me. The thing is....that it shouldn't take a crisis, for a woman to understand this. And the more I ponder the problem, the more convinced that I am, that it is the WOMAN who has to make this jump in their thought process. There's got to be another way, a way that folks can avoid the marriage-crisis, and still resolve the problem. Because in the end, it wasn't the crisis itself which caused my epiphany. It was the vulnerability that I observed in my husband afterwards. That, and my willingness to accept responsibility for my part in it. So, there IS a solution, I just can't lay my hands on it though in order to give it to you. I do know this though, Symphony, if you're done with the marriage and the family that you've created after two short years....there's nothing anyone will say that will help you develop the patience you'll need to see this through. It requires an ABUNDANCE of patience and understanding on BOTH sides. Further, if it wasn't this particular problem, it would likely be some other that crops up. There will ALWAYS be some kind of issue to deal with, some area in which the relationship can be improved. You wouldn't be the first young man to feel a bit overwhelmed at the prospect of familial responsibility. And while I'm NOT saying that this describes you, because I don't know you, I've seen alot of young men pick a fight and run. It's something to ponder on though, in any case. Because those young men, themselves, often don't see that they are seizing upon an opportunity to extricate themselves from a situation in which they feel trapped by circumstances. Like I said, I'm not accusing or minimizing the legitimacy of your problem, never that. But it's something to think about in terms of inner understanding. You do seem a bit prone to throw in the towel, at least through your posts. Possibly there could be more to deal with in your feelings than just this one issue. Link to post Share on other sites
Brandi Renee Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 This is nuts - absolutely nuts. I am getting so mad reading this. There are not allot of men out there that will go to the extend you have to really make this know to your wife how this is tearing the realtionship. IF she is a regular , common sense type of women then she should no damn well that she is basically forcing you to get the so desriere affection and intamacy somewhere esle...............!!!! GOD ! And I need a man that is like you ! For Petes sake I am in the same shoes but I am female and our sex life is a 1-2 sometimes if I am really lucky 3 times a week but that is rare. I guess if you were at least gettting it 1-2 tmies a week woudl that suffice???????????????????????????????????????????????????? And I really just want to smash the monitor when she said fine then divore me. I would make a drastic move asap and ge the extend a stay hotel room now. These other men in here are right - she does have you by the balls and that is such crap !!! Is taht a partente realtionship ! NO! Why dont you unleash those balls and get into a hotel room - maybe it will open up her eyes - it sure would mine. Link to post Share on other sites
midlifecrazy Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I'll get serious here for a minute. Symphony this is the voice of experience. I am you in 25 years or so. I think you do need to make some decisions but give yourself time to do them. If there wasn't a kid involved I would tell you to run, run like the wind. But there is so that is the biggest choice you need to make. I chose to stay for the kids. Would I do it again? Yes, my kids and grandkids are the single greatest source of joy and fulfillment in my life. So you have to decide how closely involved with your child you wish to be. I know divorced parents can still be close to their kids and do a terrific job raising them. I just think its a different dynamic when you're not there in the house with them at the end of the day. I would say do something now though. Don't expect her to change, doesn't sound like she wants to. I thought MW might after the kids were raised but that didn't happen. If anything she withdrew even further. What has MC done for you? I'm getting ready to try that myself. If she won't work on it maybe it is time for an ultimatum or maybe a trial separation so she'll know you're serious and her actions will ultimately have consequences. Link to post Share on other sites
Author symphony1125 Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 Okay, here's the thing...yes my daughter is involved...she's 15 months now, she's an absolute gem. There was a time when I gave an ultimatum, when I stopped trying...when I didn't care. I didn't talk to her, I didn't say I love you, I didn't even look at her. I was spiteful, I figured that if she was to so bluntly dismiss my feelings, well the thing to do would be to no longer talk to her...at all. And I didn't...I may have said a few words during the day but that was about it. I told her what was coming (a divorce) she stood scared, but still did not change. Then the day came, I had a hitch installed on my SUV and brought home a trailer and told her to pack, I was taking her home (we lived in TX b/c of the military at the time). This absolutely rocked her world and her persona did change, and at the end of the day when all was packed and I looked back at an empty house with my daughter sitting there, I took the trailer back in tears, and tried to explain once more. She was relieved yes, however, here we are again, same situation, just different time. Now I've gotten to the point where I think that staying together for the children is not a great idea... I believe that if husband and wife cannot talk civil, calm, and copasetic, it in turn hurts the children for the worse...scars them far worse than a divorce ever would. I speak from experience as I'm from a divorced family. My father stuck around trying to make it work for the sake of me, his son. The moment that I viewed their volatile arguments as normal...no longer crying, but continuing to play...that's when my father truly filed.... I don't know what else to say. Link to post Share on other sites
Author symphony1125 Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 As for the above posts, I agree with Renee on some aspects. How many more times do i have to feel like I'm going to break down... or how many times do I have to grit my teeth or walk away in pain, and not even feel slightly love because my wife will not follow?? I agree that any level headed person should see that the outcome is far from content. As for the other post on MC... MC did work fine...It did a good deal for us, it stopped working when one of us stopped working. In other terms, our marriage was improving until one of us stopped focusing on the knowledge we were given. Keep at it, and it will be fine....however, if one of you, and yes it only takes one, stops working at it, ...well sadly it's a waste of time. Link to post Share on other sites
Mz. Pixie Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 "That is great BLACKFROST....its nice to know there are a few women out there that don't use sex as a way to get what they want or as a "reward" for their man when he is good" Yes, there are (raises hand!) But, I'm reformed so to speak in this marriage, when I wasn't in the first! I read what you wrote about how you get tired of giving, working and doing when no one else is in the relationship Symphony. That is exactly how I felt in my first marriage before I had my A. Everyone came before me, everyone. All the time. There's only so long you can do that honey. MLC is way into what you are experiencing. By the way, MLC- good to see you hon. In my marriage now, I can see so much that I did wrong the first time. Being with the man that is my husband now, and hearing him talk about how rejected he felt when his exwife wouldn't make love with him really opened up my eyes to alot of things. What I didn't get (in my first marriage) was how very important that it is for a man to feel wanted sexually by his partner. That is how they express and feel love- most of the time. A woman cannot refuse to be an ethusiastic bed partner to her husband if she wants to keep him. Feminists can say whatever they want about it being the woman's body and that she can have sex when she wants to, but it just doesn't hold water. A man will eventually cheat (or 98% of them will) if they are not being sexually fufilled. I'm not saying that it's right but its just a fact. So sad how much time I wasted not figuring this out, and how many women lose the men they love because they stop making love to them..... Link to post Share on other sites
thegoodhubbie Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Ladyjane is totally wrong. DO NOT LISTEN TO HER. you have made it plain and clear what this is doing to your relationship and it needs to stop! There is no excuse at this point. You seem to be a very understanding and patient man who has tried quite long enough to baby her into seeing what this is doing to the two of you. I certainly would not put up with it for longer than six months. It is time for her to get some help on her own. If her marriage means nothing to her than you should absolutely move on, and take your daughter with you! Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Are you kidding me? Did you miss this part: Originally posted by symphony1125 There was a time when I gave an ultimatum, when I stopped trying...when I didn't care. I didn't talk to her, I didn't say I love you, I didn't even look at her. I was spiteful, I figured that if she was to so bluntly dismiss my feelings, well the thing to do would be to no longer talk to her...at all. And I didn't...I may have said a few words during the day but that was about it. I told her what was coming (a divorce) she stood scared, but still did not change. Then the day came, I had a hitch installed on my SUV and brought home a trailer and told her to pack, I was taking her home (we lived in TX b/c of the military at the time). That's a completely visceral image of the tired, old phrase, "PUT OUT OR GET OUT!" And she capitulated to keep her home deal going, but he's surprised he didn't get honest desire from her? Who would want to be intimate with someone who treated you that way? 'It's my way or the highway, babe'. And the moving van sitting on the street in front of you? The woman is an sexual hostage in her own marriage at that point. Her choice is to prostitute herself for the sake of keeping the peace, or to go out and make her own way in the world. There are REASONS why some of you guys aren't getting the love you want at home. You can't expect a woman to understand and tend to YOUR needs....while you can't be bothered to understand and tend to hers. That doesn't even make sense. And don't bother to say that you ARE taking care of business at home if you even remotely agree that this is how think it ought to be handled. Geez. Good luck with that. I'm out. This thread is getting pretty sick. Link to post Share on other sites
thegoodhubbie Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Sexual hostage? Prostitute? Are you kidding me? What about this - Even when I try doubly hard, with romanticism and the whole lot. Sometimes I'll even give her a massage, and just leave it at that, cuddling at the end of it, and nothing works! It's really discouraging, and yes, the temptation to walk or cheat has been there, although I would never actually cheat, I think it would be more like walking b/c of unmet needs and having my heart broken after I pour it all out time after time. or this- I have sat down rationally, many times, and have told her (yes, w/o raising my voice) exactly what intimacy means to me, how important it is, and how bad and unwanted she makes me feel, when there seems to be a lack of existance concerning that part of our live. She apologizes, seems to listen well...but in the long run, I conclude that she's listening, but not really LISTENING, ya know? or this- As for the other post on MC... MC did work fine...It did a good deal for us, it stopped working when one of us stopped working. In other terms, our marriage was improving until one of us stopped focusing on the knowledge we were given. This man's wife obviously has some type of biochemical problem that no amount of reasoning or understanding is going to fix, and if she is unwilling to work at the problem in counseling, what other option is there for this man? It is totally unfair for anyone to have to be put through that! I am wondering, Symphony, if the possibility of post partum depression has been raised in your counseling sessions. It can last for a very long time. Is she on any medications? Meds can have a huge impact on the sex drive. Was she on any meds to try and become pregnant? Just because you’re seeing a counselor doesn’t mean he/she is a good one. He/she might have overlooked some things. Good luck to you. Link to post Share on other sites
Brandi Renee Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Ok - if you ahve been down this road before - with paking and all ........................ its time to go. I dont think she is going to change. There are many women out there taht would really love to have a husband who loves thier wife so much and does everything in his power to keep the marrage working. And there are many women out there like myself who LOVE sex - even after having children. BELEIVE ME !!!! You two are clearly NOT sexually compatible and that is a recipe for DISASTER. You really should not put yourself thru this pain anymore. You need to accept this situation at this point and realize that YOU TRIED YOUR VERY VERY HARDEST - at the end of the day you can say to yourself you gave it your all. You tried ........very very hard and she was not respondant. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT . Link to post Share on other sites
Brandi Renee Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 PS - If my sex life got to the point that yours is at - I WOULD BE WALKING IMMEDIALTY. Hurt - but at least I know I would be looking for a mate that has the same overall sex drive for the long haul - that would be my BIG BIG lesson. AND I have thought of walking - but damn - I thought 1-2 times a week was bad.............. Please let us know what happens Link to post Share on other sites
Brandi Renee Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 symphony1125 - enalbe your private messages in your account options - I have some info for you Link to post Share on other sites
New_Wife Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Do you love your wife? I've read through this, and I can completely see where you'd be frustrated. My H and I have had a hardcore drop in our bootie-time due to basically life in general. We don't get to be in the bed too much at the same time - which makes getting busy in there a bit tough. Add to that my new meds, and we're really low on the sackroll roster. I'd love to have more, it's just not in the cards right now. But I love my husband. And I know that he loves me. And this will pass. When he's ready for some, If I'm there - it's a go! (If I'm awake). But, again, sometimes life gets in the way, especially with one night worker and one day worker. I'm digressing here though. What do you love about your wife? If you do. Besides sex, what about her really gets you warm, happy, safe? Besides sex, what have you two focused on? I'm not laying blame on you. Or her. Only you two know what goes on in your marraige. But I wonder if this is your sole focus, and as such, the only "weapon" she feels she has? Anyway - I think more MC. That way, even if you decide it's going to be a divorce, you can hopefully work through a civil one for your child. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Originally posted by New_Wife But, again, sometimes life gets in the way, . life is always gonna get in the way NEW_WIFE...it is not an excuse. Period. Link to post Share on other sites
New_Wife Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 LOL @ Alpha. clearly then, you've never worked opposite shifts with a partner, paying a mortgage, raising a bunch of kids. If he's too tired to put out, I'm not gonna rape his sleepy butt. There'll be another time. I can wait for a conscious performance. Link to post Share on other sites
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