My friend's family and CPS involvement

[AMarriedMan]

I'm concerned about a good friend of mine and his family. He is married with two boys. His older son is in fourth grade and his younger son is in preschool. My friend's wife has been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome. The older son has some traits of Asperger's but not enough for diagnosis. The younger son is a more likely candidate for having Asperger's syndrome. He is going to see a psychiatrist soon to see if he has the syndrome.

 

My friend has told me about how hard it can be with the boys sometimes. My friend takes care of the kids and his wife does most of the household chores. Both my friend and his wife are unemployed and have been for a long time. Their rental condo is messy but not dirty to any harmful degree. They don't drink or do drugs of any kind. They are not abusive towards the children or each other. My friend is fairly intelligent and well-read. Both he and his wife have a middle to upper middle-class familial background.

 

The boys behave normally for their age most of the time. The older son has some minor difficulties in following routines. The younger son has more serious problems. The melody of his speech is somewhat formulaic, and he is greatly bothered, for example, by having the Velcro straps in his shoes not precisely aligned.The younger son is also fairly easily triggered into fits of rage. I have once seen him get so worked up that my friend had to hold him still to prevent him from hitting objects with his legs and arms. After calming down a little bit, the boy spent about 10-15 minutes sitting in a corner by himself shaking with anger and shouting he would kill everybody every few minutes. After that, he went back to being his normal self. My friend told me that he had been told by the younger son's teachers at preschool that he had been talking about hitting people with a knife. They did not report it to CPS but suggested that my friend do that himself. The preschool psychologist spoke well of my friend's parenting skills. I've seen him in action myself and he is good at explaining the boys the difference between right and wrong at an age-appropriate level and creating a stable routine for them. He is getting tired with them, though.

 

A year ago, my friend came to me telling he was very depressed about his entire situation and had suicidal thoughts. I told him to see a doctor as soon as possible but be careful not to mention anything about his suicidal thoughts so as not to give the doctor a cause to report him to Child Protective Services. He did see a doctor, got a prescription for medication and started to feel much, much better in a matter of a couple of weeks. Last autumn, his wife had to move to another city for a few months to complete her studies. While she was away, my friend fell asleep and neglected to pick his younger son up from preschool on time one afternoon. Being mandatory reporters, the preschool staff reported him to Child Protective Services. Since then, the whole family has been under scrutiny.

 

The CPS caseworkers have been polite and professional and the parents have been getting their written case notes by mail on time and they have not contained any inaccuracies or falsehoods except for the claim that the wife does not do any housework. When I met him the last time, my friend told me that the caseworkers have been pushing foster care. I assumed was using the wrong term or had misunderstood something. Obviously, removing the boys from the family would be heavy-handed as an initial means of support. If I were a social worker assigned to their case, I would offer respite care and fast-track access to a psychiatric evaluation for the younger son so as to find out if he has Asperger's syndrome and if rehabilitation services tailored to those afflicted would be of use. I'd like to speak with him again to find out if it indeed was a misunderstanding or if the caseworkers were actually planning to place the boys into foster care. It would be easier for them if the parents relinquished the boys voluntarily rather than having to present their case to the court if the parents declined.

 

I don't think my friend fully realizes the gravity of the situation. Removal of children from their home is a drastic measure and highly traumatic for them (not to mention the parents and the extended family) in itself. I don't think it is even legal to remove children from their home unless they are in acute danger and only temporarily even in that case, without offering other services first. But CPS everywhere in the developed world is notorious for disregarding the law and ethical standards.

 

Most of the time, the boys are adorable, sympathetic and funny, the younger one of them in particular. The older one and my daughter are friends. The younger one likes me very much and I like him back. Fostering them ourselves is not a realistic option as my wife's job is too time-consuming and because we've had some marital problems that I've talked about here earlier. Besides, I'm uncertain as to whether we would be able raise a special needs child with behavioral problems that usually do not get any better when teen kids reach teenage.

 

It is dangerous to rely on the welfare state for too long or too much. Even though it is possible to survive and even life comfortably, to a modest degree, on benefits for families with minor children, doing so means risking coming under way too much scrutiny and lacking control over one's life. Working a low-paid job is preferable to living on welfare even when the financial benefits are paltry.

Edited April 18, 2017 by AMarriedMan

[Telemachus]

While the wife was away for a few months, she wasn't doing any housework. You identify a caseworker's note to that effect to have been false, but it was true.

 

There's a whole lot of information in your posting, and ultimately the question, near the end of your posting but without a question mark, seems to be whether the family would be better off supporting themselves through earned income. The answer is, unless the parents are physically or mentally disabled from work, unequivocally: "yes!"

 

It isn't just abuse that causes children to be removed from the parents' care, but neglect. Neglect is far more common, and more of a judgment call. An unemployed father, the sole parent at that time, who takes a nap instead of picking up a four-year-old at the end of the school day is a problem. He has to accept the consequences of his actions and inactions.

 

He and his wife have to take responsibility for improving their family's situation or else live within the current arrangement they've made. If the wife's continuing education is a substantial step in that direction, then they're doing that.

 

You don't indicate that anyone outside the family has acted in any way other than in the best interests of the children. You should expect that they'll continue to do that. Family courts do everything possible to keep families together. If a judge orders the children removed from the home, which is unlikely at this point, it will be because the parents failed to meet some commitment or series of commitments they made. Again, they'll have to take responsibility for their own actions and inactions.

[Mr. Lucky]

He and his wife have to take responsibility for improving their family's situation or else live within the current arrangement they've made.

 

Could agree more and was in fact struck by these two conflicting posts:

 

My friend is fairly intelligent and well-read. Both he and his wife have a middle to upper middle-class familial background.

 

Both my friend and his wife are unemployed and have been for a long time.

 

How does this couple not feel a need to support themselves and their children? Regardless of background, training or circumstance, there are jobs out there from loading trucks to flipping burgers (both of which I've done ) that would improve their conditions and address the CPS concerns.

 

No excuse...

 

Mr. Lucky

[AMarriedMan]

While the wife was away for a few months, she wasn't doing any housework. You identify a caseworker's note to that effect to have been false, but it was true.

 

The wife did not do housework when she was absent, obviously. However, the wording of the case notes indicates that she *never* does housework, which is patently false. This could have the implication of the potential removal of the children to hinge solely upon their father's fitness for parenthood.

 

There's a whole lot of information in your posting, and ultimately the question, near the end of your posting but without a question mark, seems to be whether the family would be better off supporting themselves through earned income. The answer is, unless the parents are physically or mentally disabled from work, unequivocally: "yes!"

 

I never meant to question whether or not one should rather work than rely on handouts even if one did not benefit much from choosing to work. In fact, I said so. In effect, that would be exchanging one's free time for respectability (in the eyes of society and oneself).

 

It isn't just abuse that causes children to be removed from the parents' care, but neglect. Neglect is far more common, and more of a judgment call. An unemployed father, the sole parent at that time, who takes a nap instead of picking up a four-year-old at the end of the school day is a problem. He has to accept the consequences of his actions and inactions.

 

He should've set an alarm to ensure that he'd wake up or otherwise make sure what happened wouldn't have happened. He did act irresponsibly. He has forgotten the children's doctor's appointments a few times in the past as well. I hope that he is now getting the kind of cold shower that'll motivate him to get his act together.

 

He and his wife have to take responsibility for improving their family's situation or else live within the current arrangement they've made. If the wife's continuing education is a substantial step in that direction, then they're doing that.

 

My friend has worked before in IT support and has also driven a taxi. I have suggested that he should go back to doing those things if can't find a job suitable for his current education. The reasons he gave for not doing that had to do with the unpleasantness of those lines of work. In my opinion, the reasons he gave were rubbish. He once lamented being a bad role model for his sons. I agree. They are too young to fully understand that now, though. But when they grow up they will come to understand that's somethings not right about their parent's lifestyle. I'm firmly of the opinion that one should NOT procreate without the intention and the means to support one's children without public assistance.

 

You don't indicate that anyone outside the family has acted in any way other than in the best interests of the children. You should expect that they'll continue to do that. Family courts do everything possible to keep families together. If a judge orders the children removed from the home, which is unlikely at this point, it will be because the parents failed to meet some commitment or series of commitments they made. Again, they'll have to take responsibility for their own actions and inactions.

 

There are no family courts where we live. If a child's guardian is opposed to the child's removal from home, a leading social worker responsible for the case will have to submit it to an administrative court. Administrative courts decide whether or not an administrative decision was technically legal or not. From what I've heard it is not uncommon for CPS case documents to contain errors, inaccuracies or even downright lies. CPS investigators don't have time to do a thorough job and because they're human, too, they sometimes let their personal prejudice affect how they handle their cases.

[GunslingerRoland]

I'm not sure where you live, but this situation just doesn't add up to me. Child protective service's first goal is always to keep the family intact wherever possible. I'm not sure about your statement that everywhere in the world CPS oversteps the law, but I'm pretty sure that is very rare.

 

But again, I've never heard of a place where a school has a mandatory law to phone child protective services if a parent is late one time for pickup. (i don't know a parent is hasn't happened to once, how many CPS workers do you have to deal with all of these unnecessary calls?)

[AMarriedMan]

I'm not sure where you live, but this situation just doesn't add up to me. Child protective service's first goal is always to keep the family intact wherever possible. I'm not sure about your statement that everywhere in the world CPS oversteps the law, but I'm pretty sure that is very rare.

 

CPS in particular is badly overworked pretty much everywhere and is known to cut corners. Also, their actions are judgement calls often based on sparse information. I have seen cases of very poor quality documentation rife with provably false statements.

 

But again, I've never heard of a place where a school has a mandatory law to phone child protective services if a parent is late one time for pickup. (i don't know a parent is hasn't happened to once, how many CPS workers do you have to deal with all of these unnecessary calls?)

 

That's not what "mandatory reporter" means anywhere. Many professionals like doctors, teachers, social workers etc. who work with children are mandated by law to report any child to CPS whose situation they consider should be investigated by CPS. The law does not say that picking up a kid late from preschool must be reported or anything that specific. However, in this case, the preschool staff decided it was necessary to report my friend's kid probably because my friend must have told them that he had fallen asleep because he was exhausted from caring for his children to excuse himself. Also, as I wrote in the posting that started this thread, the kid's behavior at preschool had been problematic, which probably lowered the threshold.

[AMarriedMan]

Could agree more and was in fact struck by these two conflicting posts:

 

"My friend is fairly intelligent and well-read. Both he and his wife have a middle to upper middle-class familial background."

 

"Both my friend and his wife are unemployed and have been for a long time."

 

 

I don't know the wife very well except for the fact that she has been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome. My friend told me that his mother used to be an extremely hard worker who was unable to delegate any responsibilities. Growing up, he heard countless times from his mother that he was good for nothing.

 

How does this couple not feel a need to support themselves and their children? Regardless of background, training or circumstance, there are jobs out there from loading trucks to flipping burgers (both of which I've done ) that would improve their conditions and address the CPS concerns.

 

No excuse...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

At this present time and in my friend's situation, you are correct. There is nothing to stop him from getting a job as a taxi driver, for example. The pay is hardly better than the handouts he is living on but that would address the issue of being a bad role model for his sons ...

 

However, I predict that in a few decades all jobs of the burger flipping kind will be gone forever. This will happen as a result of advanced AI allowing jobs of increasing complexity to be automated. This type of job destruction is happening already and is picking up speed. White collar jobs are also affected. Look up "jobless growth".

[Mr. Lucky]

However, I predict that in a few decades all jobs of the burger flipping kind will be gone forever. This will happen as a result of advanced AI allowing jobs of increasing complexity to be automated. This type of job destruction is happening already and is picking up speed. White collar jobs are also affected. Look up "jobless growth".

 

Strikes me as a discussion for another day. He doesn't have obligations due "in a few decades", they're happening now. If you want to be his friend, help him read the want ads and drive him to some interviews. Perhaps a push would get him going...

 

Mr. Lucky

[GunslingerRoland]

CPS in particular is badly overworked pretty much everywhere and is known to cut corners. Also, their actions are judgement calls often based on sparse information. I have seen cases of very poor quality documentation rife with provably false statements.

 

 

 

That's not what "mandatory reporter" means anywhere. Many professionals like doctors, teachers, social workers etc. who work with children are mandated by law to report any child to CPS whose situation they consider should be investigated by CPS. The law does not say that picking up a kid late from preschool must be reported or anything that specific. However, in this case, the preschool staff decided it was necessary to report my friend's kid probably because my friend must have told them that he had fallen asleep because he was exhausted from caring for his children to excuse himself. Also, as I wrote in the posting that started this thread, the kid's behavior at preschool had been problematic, which probably lowered the threshold.

 

Oh I have no doubt that CPS is under staffed, and their clients sometimes don't get the care you need. But it's still a HUGE deal to take kids away from their parents. It's never taken lightly to take kids away from parents, and for the types of reasons you are talking about, it would be pretty unheard of (could you imagine how many kids would be taken away if being a mediocre parent was grounds for it? )

 

Coked out people leaving their kids at home alone for the weekend get their kids taken away, not someone who left their kid at school too long because they over slept their nap.

[AMarriedMan]

Oh I have no doubt that CPS is under staffed, and their clients sometimes don't get the care you need. But it's still a HUGE deal to take kids away from their parents. It's never taken lightly to take kids away from parents, and for the types of reasons you are talking about, it would be pretty unheard of (could you imagine how many kids would be taken away if being a mediocre parent was grounds for it? )

 

I very clearly remember my friend telling me that the CPS case workers had been trying to get the parents to accept "foster care" (his words). I immediately thought he had used the wrong term and that they had meant respite care or something else. He told me that I did not want to agree because he wouldn't trust alternative carers.

 

Coked out people leaving their kids at home alone for the weekend get their kids taken away, not someone who left their kid at school too long because they over slept their nap.

 

Such clear cut cases are not the only types of cases where kids are lost. One group of families at risk are those with special needs kids with behavioral problems that are mistakenly judged to be caused by emotional abuse.

[AMarriedMan]

He had indeed used the wrong term. The caseworkers had been suggesting respite care. There is nothing so seriously wrong with the situation as to warrant removal of the children. However, the case is open and it is deemed necessary that they receive open care support measures. As the kids grow, the younger one night be at risk of developing behavioural issues more serious than his current severe tantrums that are, at present, manageable in part by physically restraining him if necessary. I've seen one of these fits happen during a gathering. Had the younger son been a teenager, it would have taken both his dad and I (the only adult men present at the time) to restrain him and even then would probably have been difficult to do without anyone getting hurt.

[basil67]

I'm late to this thread.

 

As a parent of an autistic child, I would bet that the younger son has an autism spectrum disorder. Your description of his behaviour is textbook stuff.

 

What actions have the family taken to have their son diagnosed and helped? There is a lot that can be done to make his life easier without great expense.

[AMarriedMan]

I'm late to this thread.

 

As a parent of an autistic child, I would bet that the younger son has an autism spectrum disorder. Your description of his behaviour is textbook stuff.

 

What actions have the family taken to have their son diagnosed and helped? There is a lot that can be done to make his life easier without great expense.

 

The younger son will be evaluated for diagnosis next fall. His older brother was found to not meet all the necessary criteria for Aspergers but was found to have clear traits.