MM left wife, and now me

[Whodatdog]

Requoted because it's so important:

 

 

 

The world is full of men (primarily) and women who will say anything to get what they want. In fact, I'd argue that when it comes to sex, most men are in the "say anything' camp; we've done it out entire lives, and we've gotten very good at doing it to get sex. I've lied countless times about my feelings for a woman to have sex; and, the worst part, it's not even because I couldn't have sex without lying, it was just easier to lie and say "I love you" than deal with the drama of "No, we're friends with benefits".

 

Add in the element of an A, now you're approaching 100% that are lying about their feelings; their actions are so counter to "love" that it should be absolutely obvious to anyone who's eyes are open that they don't love you, they don't respect you, and they don't care what happens to you, because, if they did, they NEVER would engage in an A with you (assuming your a married OW, if you're single, most of this still applies though).

 

When you're in doubt of how a man really feels, or what he's really thinking, stop listening to his words and start looking at his actions. Men "speak" though action, words are, for many of us, a way to spur others to action, to get others to follow our lead, or to, sadly, manipulate others into believing things that aren't true. But our actions will always tell the truth; you meet a man, profess love for each other, and he's at dinner with you the next week after serving D papers to his wife? He might love you. You meet a man, he talks about leaving all the time, professes love to you, has sex with you and then leaves to go be with his wife and kids? He doesn't love you, he probably doesn't even LIKE you, he LOVES the sex on the side, the forbidden nature of it, and the "charge" he gets out of it. But that has nothing to do with you and everything to do with sex.

 

I know I sound like a broken records on the OW forum, but I sincerely hope that some conflicted or hurting OW read my words and are spurred to action because; trust me ladies, there's a near certain chance that the man you're blowing your life up for wouldn't cross the street to offer you a bottle of water if you were dying of thirst if sex wasn't on offer. Women have no idea to the extent that men compartmentalize sex; it's just not the same for us as it is for you. And most OW would be devastated to see inside the mind of their AP for "how do they really feel". But you don't need to read minds, just look at actions; that'll tell you everything you need to know.

 

OP, if you remember nothing else from this thread, remember the bolded.

 

Remember it. Have it tattooed on your ass if need be...but remember it.

[Vivir]

Gosh, Overtaxed, your words hurt me so much, but knowledge is power and the truth shall set me free...

 

Add in the element of an A, now you're approaching 100% that are lying about their feelings; their actions are so counter to "love" that it should be absolutely obvious to anyone who's eyes are open that they don't love you, they don't respect you, and they don't care what happens to you, because, if they did, they NEVER would engage in an A with you (assuming your a married OW, if you're single, most of this still applies though).

 

Let the church say, "Amen!" Took me forever to regard the above sentiment, and it took me forever and a few days to ACCEPT the above sentiment. I told xMM repeatedly that the affair was hurting me emotionally. I went through hours and hours and more hours of telling, explaining. It took ACTION, without regard to how he took it, for him to take me seriously. His WORDS were things he used to create false intimacy with me so that I would keep accepting breadcrumbs. His actions, like Overtaxed explains, told a very different story. For instance, the last time we were together, it was time for him to go on home and leave me alone... again... I stopped him, intending to just hug him a bit longer and then let him walk out the door. He groaned, "Are you doing this again?" I am certain he meant whining about the fact that he was leaving to go home to someone else - something I told him had been incredibly painful for me every time he did it. His mask slipped a little in this instance.

 

And most OW would be devastated to see inside the mind of their AP for "how do they really feel". But you don't need to read minds, just look at actions; that'll tell you everything you need to know.

 

After I started waking up from the dream-like fantasy of our affair, I began doing these little exercises: anything that he would say, I would imagine him saying the opposite, and then I would take the opposite as the truth. Eventually, I realized how easy lying came for him. He would lie about anything - not just things related to how he felt about me... even things that I could easily determine were lies. It was unreal and sobering.

[Overtaxed]

I'm glad my post helped a few people, and I certainly did not intend to hurt with it, but, I'm telling you, as a man, this is how many of us operate, and women should ALWAYS look to actions more than words. "I'm a good guy, I'm just doing this because of you" (something my wife's AP said all the time); when the action was "I'm going to tell my wife I have a meeting so I can come see you while your husband is out of town". Come to find out, my W is A number 3 that his wife knows about. But his ACTION was showing you what you needed to see, he's not a good guy, and that's obvious by the fact that he's leaving his wife at home to see you (the AP).

 

Are there good people who get into A's? Yes, there are, I believe my wife was one of them. But, by and large, the people who engage in this behavior are broken in some way or another, and because of that, their words have to be taken as "lies until proven otherwise" rather than the way we normally deal with the world "assume truth unless there's a reason to suspect otherwise".

 

And, listen, let me be clear, my W lied through her teeth to him too, lies that I saw, plain as day, in the recovered TXT messages. He doesn't love me (lie). I'm leaving him (lie). He never got me (lie). All lies, her actions tell you all you need to know, as we start a life again together with this stain on our marriage. She chose me, and I offered her the "get out of jail free card" (and easy fast D with as few hard feelings as possible, including staying in our current house, so she wouldn't even have to move). But, nope, her actions tell you what you need to know, she chose me, and that's something that I fall back on often to comfort me when I get down about what happened.

[aileD]

It's interesting, your first few paragraphs are very similar to how I feel as a BS. I too believed that I had a life that we had planned together and was told all the time I was the love of his life. Promises and plans that were said before during and after he was sleeping with and professing his love to another woman. Lying to both of us, the only difference is she knew he was lying to me, I had no idea. It is very hard to give up the person you love, and still do too, after 20 years together it's hard to erase even with all his lies and the pain.

 

Yes. Agree. You think it's bad for you, and it is. But it could be worse. You could be his BS ?

[Rebelnoir]

I'm glad my post helped a few people, and I certainly did not intend to hurt with it, but, I'm telling you, as a man, this is how many of us operate, and women should ALWAYS look to actions more than words. "I'm a good guy, I'm just doing this because of you" (something my wife's AP said all the time); when the action was "I'm going to tell my wife I have a meeting so I can come see you while your husband is out of town". Come to find out, my W is A number 3 that his wife knows about. But his ACTION was showing you what you needed to see, he's not a good guy, and that's obvious by the fact that he's leaving his wife at home to see you (the AP).

 

Are there good people who get into A's? Yes, there are, I believe my wife was one of them. But, by and large, the people who engage in this behavior are broken in some way or another, and because of that, their words have to be taken as "lies until proven otherwise" rather than the way we normally deal with the world "assume truth unless there's a reason to suspect otherwise".

 

And, listen, let me be clear, my W lied through her teeth to him too, lies that I saw, plain as day, in the recovered TXT messages. He doesn't love me (lie). I'm leaving him (lie). He never got me (lie). All lies, her actions tell you all you need to know, as we start a life again together with this stain on our marriage. She chose me, and I offered her the "get out of jail free card" (and easy fast D with as few hard feelings as possible, including staying in our current house, so she wouldn't even have to move). But, nope, her actions tell you what you need to know, she chose me, and that's something that I fall back on often to comfort me when I get down about what happened.

 

It only hurt because you are right. It's a valuable lesson to learn. I think in an A you almost ignore actions and rely on the words being said. I know I did. There were actions that supported what he was saying, but usually those stemmed from deceit or just making himself feel better.

 

Ive been thinking all day about not trying to read minds and focusing on actions and it has helped

 

I'm glad you and your wife have found a way forward, and yes the fact your wife chose you when you gave her an easy out shows where her heart really lies

[Rebelnoir]

Yes. Agree. You think it's bad for you, and it is. But it could be worse. You could be his BS ?

 

This is something I think about frequently. I can't even imagine what she must be feeling. The first time that really hit me was when he started having doubts about us, and I hated myself for the pain I caused her. I wish there was some way to make it better, but I know there isn't. I will stay away from him so that their R had a fighting chance.

[aileD]

This is something I think about frequently. I can't even imagine what she must be feeling. The first time that really hit me was when he started having doubts about us, and I hated myself for the pain I caused her. I wish there was some way to make it better, but I know there isn't. I will stay away from him so that their R had a fighting chance.

 

Form a BS, thank you. It's hard enough thing to reconcile in these situations and it makes it harder when the OW sticks around. So I think you're doing an honorable thing here. It's up to him to work on his marriage but st least you can say you had no part in whether it succeeded or not.

 

When my H was going back and forth I knew if we ended it.....it would be partially because of HER. Now that she's gone, we may make it or we may not but at least I have peace of mind knowing it was ME and HIM alone that was the reason for us ending it. And that is healthy for my soul and for my children

 

So thank u

[Rebelnoir]

Form a BS, thank you. It's hard enough thing to reconcile in these situations and it makes it harder when the OW sticks around. So I think you're doing an honorable thing here. It's up to him to work on his marriage but st least you can say you had no part in whether it succeeded or not.

 

When my H was going back and forth I knew if we ended it.....it would be partially because of HER. Now that she's gone, we may make it or we may not but at least I have peace of mind knowing it was ME and HIM alone that was the reason for us ending it. And that is healthy for my soul and for my children

 

So thank u

 

I can imagine it's much harder when the OW is around. I'm pretty sure my MM will try and speak to me when he is back at work, but I can't keep doing this. It's not good for me or him.

 

I miss him so much today though and nothing is cheering me up. Oh well, day 3 of NC so it will only get better I hope

[MidnightBlue1980]

I can imagine it's much harder when the OW is around. I'm pretty sure my MM will try and speak to me when he is back at work, but I can't keep doing this. It's not good for me or him.

 

I miss him so much today though and nothing is cheering me up. Oh well, day 3 of NC so it will only get better I hope

 

It's not NC if you see him at your job. You won't feel better till you stop seeing him 100%. I know it's not what you want to hear but it is the truth. I wasted almost the entire 2016 trying to get over him while seeing him. It does not work. Trust me.

[Rebelnoir]

It's not NC if you see him at your job. You won't feel better till you stop seeing him 100%. I know it's not what you want to hear but it is the truth. I wasted almost the entire 2016 trying to get over him while seeing him. It does not work. Trust me.

 

I guess low contact is the better term. At the moment there's not much I can do other than look for new jobs. He is avoiding the office as much as possible and we don't have to interact at work which helps. I'm glad you're feeling better now, hopefully 2017 is a better year for you so far.

 

Missing him a lot today, thinking about the fact he is on holiday. This is hard.

[Rebelnoir]

I miss him. I hate myself for it, but I really do. I'm wondering if he's thinking about me, which is ridiculous.

[Birdies]

I miss him. I hate myself for it, but I really do. I'm wondering if he's thinking about me, which is ridiculous.

 

It's normal. You're fighting an addiction. Just try to keep yourself distracted, and it will get better with time. You're lucky in a way that he is forced to be out of touch, since it can be so hard to go NC voluntarily. By the time he gets back, NC will be a lot easier than now.

 

"When you're going through hell - keep going." - Winston Churchill

"Sometimes the only way out is through." - Robert Frost

[Rebelnoir]

I know you're right. It's just readjusting I guess. Knowing he won't be at work. And that he's probably having a lovely trip. It's just so...rubbish.

[WorstFeelingEver]

-OP says: MM had been unhappy in his marriage (according to him) for a long time. I knew that he had cheated with two other women, one before his wedding, and one just before his wife got pregnant (their child is now one and a half). Neither of these were long term, just one night stands and his wife doesn't know.

 

 

____did you not think about this before jumping "ALL IN" with MM? Once a cheater, always a cheater! Should of known then, he was going to do the same to you, (as noted from your posts).

 

Put yourself in the MM's wife shoes___I hope one day, 10-13 years from now, when you are married with child(ren), your H doesn't cheat on you. How would you feel if your H cheated on you and you found out about it? H sleeping with OW, then returning to you to continue sleeping with you like there is nothing wrong? GROSS.

 

I am not trying to be mean here, but a lot of people (married or not) that cause an A, with another MM/MW, do NOT see the whole picture when starting an A. It is a "Fling" in which most do not last. (LOOK at your outcome). Cheaters do not think about the other spouse, their family, the kids, the outcome, IE, (if he got the "D", he will still see his daughter & communicate with ex for as long as daughter is growing up, hich will involve you) etc... AND if you are co-workers, what do think the other staff are thinking of the two of you at work, especially if your co-workers know one OR both of you are married with children? Not very loyal to your wife & kids, are you? Can the other co-workers trust you during the "A"?

 

OP--Doesn't matter how much the MM comes on to you, you KNEW he was married, & he IS in a committed relationship & has a daughter with his wife. Maybe, you should have asked him to legally separate from his wife, or have MM start a "D", & then check MM paperwork on either, before jumping "ALL IN" with MM.

 

I been married with my wife just 18 years now, 22 years including dating. We have 2 kids. We were best friends all through our years together. Sure, we had some issues during our marriage, (everyone does) and we have always worked them out together. THEN, she asked me for a "D" in March 2017. Come to find out, she started hanging out with another MM from work around July 2016, and noticed she was becoming distant to me from October 2016 until March 2017, when she asked me for a "D" and it ripped out my heart & soul. I DO NOT understand why people do this to their spouses & break up marriage & families.

 

The MM will mostly NOT leave his wife & child behind. WHY?___because it is a safety/comfort zone for MM. He likely knows his wife is loyal & committed to the marriage & he can run back to his "safe haven" after the "A" (again, LOOK at your outcome). And if his wife doesn't agree to his cheating, (IE, marriage cannot be reconciled), his wife will start a "D" & take MM to the cleaners & wife will get CS and Spousal Maintenance for a long time from MM and he will only see his daughter every other weekend.

 

I DO NOT wish this on anyone, even my worst enemies. You DO NOT know what it feels like until you are in the shoes getting dumped from your betrayed spouse. It is very hurtful, especially when you are blind-sided from your own spouse. Now, I will soon be divorced, live on my own and my kids will not see their father every day & tuck them in bed every night, like I do now. You think my kids will wonder why this will be OR be happy with their new living arrangements? Again, the Cheating spouse does not see the whole picture OR think this all through especially with kids involved____they want to jump in the sack with some else to get their needs met. The ones who suffer the most are the kids and the faithful spouse----think about it.

[Rebelnoir]

-OP says: MM had been unhappy in his marriage (according to him) for a long time. I knew that he had cheated with two other women, one before his wedding, and one just before his wife got pregnant (their child is now one and a half). Neither of these were long term, just one night stands and his wife doesn't know.

 

 

____did you not think about this before jumping "ALL IN" with MM? Once a cheater, always a cheater! Should of known then, he was going to do the same to you, (as noted from your posts).

 

Yes, this is something I considered and something we talked about extensively. At the time, when I thought he was demonstrating his commitment to us, I accepted what he said.

 

I'm not sure you can say 'once a cheater, always a cheater'. Otherwise what about every BS that takes their WS back? Do they do it knowing that person will cheat again? Of course not. He hasn't cheated on me. He has decided to try and make his marriage work. I don't think that's the same thing, although you might.

 

Put yourself in the MM's wife shoes___I hope one day, 10-13 years from now, when you are married with child(ren), your H doesn't cheat on you. How would you feel if your H cheated on you and you found out about it? H sleeping with OW, then returning to you to continue sleeping with you like there is nothing wrong? GROSS.

 

I can't imagine how hurtful it must be. My MM told me he wasn't sleeping with his wife. I believed him for a number of reasons, the main one being the fact we were friends prior to the A and have mutual friends. We discussed his marriage at length and he discussed it with mutual friends. It was always the same story, even when he told it to people who he has no incentive to lie to

 

 

I am not trying to be mean here, but a lot of people (married or not) that cause an A, with another MM/MW, do NOT see the whole picture when starting an A. It is a "Fling" in which most do not last. (LOOK at your outcome). Cheaters do not think about the other spouse, their family, the kids, the outcome, IE, (if he got the "D", he will still see his daughter & communicate with ex for as long as daughter is growing up, hich will involve you) etc... AND if you are co-workers, what do think the other staff are thinking of the two of you at work, especially if your co-workers know one OR both of you are married with children? Not very loyal to your wife & kids, are you? Can the other co-workers trust you during the "A"?

 

I don't agree that one person causes the A. It's both people making bad decisions. We did try and see the whole picture. From the very first moment we discussed out feelings we were trying to work out what to do, how we would deal with family/his child etc. How we would cope with my involvement in his child's upbringing. Ultimately we decided if he left quickly and didn't disclose it was because of me, it would be best. He left within 4 months, which was the date we had agreed and he did not mention me. It was a week after he left that his wife discovered the tickets. I know that this sounds heartless to you, as a BS, but we were trying to think of the ramifications. In terms of co-workers this is not common knowledge in our office. Some people know, but they are people who needed to know for various reasons, and some people we are both very close too. Interestingly we have not had much judgment, even where I thought we would, as the people who know are aware of how unhappy MM was. They also know me, and know the reasons why I would do something like this. This reaction is similar to his friends that found out

 

OP--Doesn't matter how much the MM comes on to you, you KNEW he was married, & he IS in a committed relationship & has a daughter with his wife. Maybe, you should have asked him to legally separate from his wife, or have MM start a "D", & then check MM paperwork on either, before jumping "ALL IN" with MM.

 

He also knew he was married and has a child. I understand your point but I definitely do not have ALL of the responsibility for upholding his marriage vows. They were his vows, not mine. We discussed nothing happening until he got a D. Ultimately I couldn't ask him to do that on the basis of a relationship we did not know would work. However, you're probably right and this would have caused less pain in some ways. People do get divorced, marriages aren't binding forever, and I believed that was his choice to make, not mine. I still believe this which is why I will keep my distance now that he had decided to R properly with his wife. It's one thing trying to be together when he wants the same, it's another if he has changed his mind

 

I been married with my wife just 18 years now, 22 years including dating. We have 2 kids. We were best friends all through our years together. Sure, we had some issues during our marriage, (everyone does) and we have always worked them out together. THEN, she asked me for a "D" in March 2017. Come to find out, she started hanging out with another MM from work around July 2016, and noticed she was becoming distant to me from October 2016 until March 2017, when she asked me for a "D" and it ripped out my heart & soul. I DO NOT understand why people do this to their spouses & break up marriage & families.

 

I am very sorry for your pain. I'm sorry that you have been hurt in this way, and that your wife did this to you. This helps me understand some of your responses to my thread.

 

The MM will mostly NOT leave his wife & child behind. WHY?___because it is a safety/comfort zone for MM. He likely knows his wife is loyal & committed to the marriage & he can run back to his "safe haven" after the "A" (again, LOOK at your outcome). And if his wife doesn't agree to his cheating, (IE, marriage cannot be reconciled), his wife will start a "D" & take MM to the cleaners & wife will get CS and Spousal Maintenance for a long time from MM and he will only see his daughter every other weekend.

 

Yes, I agree now that he has told me he wants to R it is very unlikely that he will leave. So any relationship we had going forward would be based on the fact he wasn't leaving (i will not engage in this...). I know it was unlikely he would leave in the first place, but I told myself there are exceptions. I believed he was an exception. I think he also really believed it too.

 

We discussed what his relationship with his daughter and wife would be like. He reassured me continuously he would be ok with it. But I guess he didn't take the steps he needed to, such as enduring he had access to his daughter.

 

I now see these beliefs were based on his fantasy and my willingness to believe what he was saying. He was very convincing and I wanted to believe him, even when his actions were incongruous.

 

 

I DO NOT wish this on anyone, even my worst enemies. You DO NOT know what it feels like until you are in the shoes getting dumped from your betrayed spouse. It is very hurtful, especially when you are blind-sided from your own spouse. Now, I will soon be divorced, live on my own and my kids will not see their father every day & tuck them in bed every night, like I do now. You think my kids will wonder why this will be OR be happy with their new living arrangements? Again, the Cheating spouse does not see the whole picture OR think this all through especially with kids involved____they want to jump in the sack with some else to get their needs met. The ones who suffer the most are the kids and the faithful spouse----think about it.

 

I agree, I don't know what it feels like to be a BS, I've mentioned several times in my thread that I can't even imagine the pain she is going through. I think about it often and I am disgusted that I have been a part of causing that pain. She didn't deserve it. I know it must be worse that what I'm feeling.

 

I can't imagine how awful it is for you that you will not see your children everyday through a situation you haven't chosen.

 

Affairs are horrible situations, and I've learnt that nobody wins. There is nobody that had come out of my situation (or yours I think) better off. LS, I think, shows that they cause pain and hurt albeit different kinds, and in different amounts) to everyone involved; the BS, WS, children, AP and often wider families/friends.

[Rebelnoir]

Worstfeelingever- I just wanted to add that the last month for me has been an eye opener. People on here have helped my see the A for what it was. And the thing to bear in mind is that both myself and MM clearly have issues that allowed us to engage in this type of behaviour. I now see that it wasn't healthy love, it can't be. I think the BS and child definitely are the innocent party in any affair. They don't deserve the hurt that they are caused. As the OW, I do deserve it. It doesn't change the fact it hurts or that MM lied to me too. The difference is he didn't owe me honesty, but he did owe that to his BS.

 

I honestly do love MM, and yes I was all in because I believed it was the right thing for us both. I couldn't think about BS and what was right for her. Ultimately he was responsible for his marriage...that is evidently something he has realised now.

[jenkins95]

Another hug (((Rebel)))

 

I hope you got through the weekend ok and are feeling at least no worse than you were last week now that you are a little deeper into NC? I know it's daunting, but I wouldn't expect to feel any better until at least 3 months or so. Hang in and survive until then - you can do it!

 

I also wanted to apologise if I sounded very harsh in my message at the end of last week. I was on a train and had to get my message posted quickly without refining/editing! Re-reading it, my message comes across as harsh, judgemental and coarse. Sorry Rebel.

 

Just to clarify, as a former cheater myself, I don't see your MM as any better or worse than me (despite how it sounded in my other message). We are both ordinary men (good in the most part I hope!), who found themselves unsatisfied in life...and then followed a very destructive path to deal with it, hurting lots of people as well as ourselves in the process. Sorry for the "POS" stuff - I am not a very sweary person, so I normally use POS as a word in itself (rather than what it stands for) - that's way I can call myself that and it doesn't sound quite so horrible.

 

I think what shocked me before my post was mention of the cheating he did just prior to marriage and during pregnancy - that clouded my view during my post. But I now have a much better understanding of the whole story having re-read the thread and I see that the issues are much deeper.

 

From my own perspective as a former MM in an affair, I don't think he just blatantly lied to you to get what he wanted. More likely he just allowed himself to get swept up in the fantasy and pushed away awkward thoughts. He probably meant much of what he said to you and was genuine about the plans he discussed with you, but he was being irresponsible. He was allowing himself to wash over the full consequences and push away the nasty thoughts of the reality of what would come from all this. I can say from experience that things can change in an instant when one comes face to face with the reality of the pain inflicted on the BS. This happened to me. When I disclosed my affair, I expected extreme anger, a punch in the face and to be thrown out of the house...

 

But the reality was quite different. Instead I saw the woman who had dedicated her whole life to me, the woman I had made vows and commitments to, collapse and breakdown - physically falling to the floor, crushed and broken and so completely vulnerable right in front of my eyes. Her pain was palpable and suddenly things changed and became clear in my mind. I saw that she truly loved me (I had doubted this as we had drifted apart, mainly just due to the routine of normal married life) and that I still loved her, even though I had lost site of it. Suddenly, I saw in her the girl I first met again, all her emotions laid bare. In the next room, I heard my kids innocent play, totally oblivious to the potential destruction of their family unit occurring just feet away from them. Suddenly, reality hit me like a brick and my fantasy bubble burst open. I realised what a complete selfish idiot I had been. I was "in love" with the OW, but realised that I still loved my wife - that deep love that develops over decades. The love based on commitment, shared history, children, family. I realised that if my wife wanted to reconcile then I did too - because I felt the love there. I wouldn't have stayed just "for the kids" - although that is another very good reason to try to rescue the M.

 

This didn't change the fact that I had feelings for the OW, because I did - very genuine feelings. But I saw so clearly how I should never have got involved in the A in the first place. My marriage just needed TLC. Instead of telling my wife I was feeling unsatisfied and I was worried whether we loved each other any more, I distanced myself emotionally...and fell into an affair. Massive, massive mistake - a mistake that I will never fully get over.

 

Nearly two years after that disclosure, we are doing quite well in reconciliation, but it's a long road. My A broke several hearts and has changed my wife and I (and probably the OW) psychologically forever. But we will survive. We have to!

 

I will never forget the OW, my feelings for her were genuine, but they never should have been allowed to develop in the first place. This will be unpleasant for BS to read - but certain memories of her I will always cherish, selfish though that is - but I will lock them away only to be visited very occassionally. Every day I wish her nothing but the very best for her future. I hope she learns from what happened and never puts herself in a situation to be so hurt again. She deserves to be happy...and so do you Rebel.

 

Now, from what you've said, there are differences in our stories, but also quite a few parallels to be drawn. The one thing I feel quite strongly about is that he wasn't just deliberately telling you a pack of lies, he was simply a lost soul in love and out of control in a situation that never should have been allowed to arise in the first place. He allowed himself to be swallowed up by the fantasies and I'm sure he believed what he said. But when faced with the realities - his wife's pain and the thought of hurting his daughter and compromising his R with her, it brought him crashing back down to earth. But that doesn't mean his feelings for you weren't genuine - I'm quite sure they were and that he will never forget you.

 

Good luck Rebel! Stick to NC. First 3 months are brutal, then you will start to find yourself again...and great times await. I am sure!

Edited May 2, 2017 by jenkins95

[Rebelnoir]

Another hug (((Rebel)))

 

I hope you got through the weekend ok and are feeling at least no worse than you were last week now that you are a little deeper into NC? I know it's daunting, but I wouldn't expect to feel any better until at least 3 months or so. Hang in and survive until then - you can do it!

 

I also wanted to apologise if I sounded very harsh in my message at the end of last week. I was on a train and had to get my message posted quickly without refining/editing! Re-reading it, my message comes across as harsh, judgemental and coarse. Sorry Rebel.

 

Just to clarify, as a former cheater myself, I don't see your MM as any better or worse than me (despite how it sounded in my other message). We are both ordinary men (good in the most part I hope!), who found themselves unsatisfied in life...and then followed a very destructive path to deal with it, hurting lots of people as well as ourselves in the process. Sorry for the "POS" stuff - I am not a very sweary person, so I normally use POS as a word in itself (rather than what it stands for) - that's way I can call myself that and it doesn't sound quite so horrible.

 

I think what shocked me before my post was mention of the cheating he did just prior to marriage and during pregnancy - that clouded my view during my post. But I now have a much better understanding of the whole story having re-read the thread and I see that the issues are much deeper.

 

From my own perspective as a former MM in an affair, I don't think he just blatantly lied to you to get what he wanted. More likely he just allowed himself to get swept up in the fantasy and pushed away awkward thoughts. He probably meant much of what he said to you and was genuine about the plans he discussed with you, but he was being irresponsible. He was allowing himself to wash over the full consequences and push away the nasty thoughts of the reality of what would come from all this. I can say from experience that things can change in an instant when one comes face to face with the reality of the pain inflicted on the BS. This happened to me. When I disclosed my affair, I expected extreme anger, a punch in the face and to be thrown out of the house...

 

But the reality was quite different. Instead I saw the woman who had dedicated her whole life to me, the woman I had made vows and commitments to, collapse and breakdown - physically falling to the floor, crushed and broken and so completely vulnerable right in front of my eyes. Her pain was palpable and suddenly things changed and became clear in my mind. I saw that she truly loved me (I had doubted this as we had drifted apart, mainly just due to the routine of normal married life) and that I still loved her, even though I had lost site of it. Suddenly, I saw in her the girl I first met again, all her emotions laid bare. In the next room, I heard my kids innocent play, totally oblivious to the potential destruction of their family unit occurring just feet away from them. Suddenly, reality hit me like a brick and my fantasy bubble burst open. I realised what a complete selfish idiot I had been. I was "in love" with the OW, but realised that I still loved my wife - that deep love that develops over decades. The love based on commitment, shared history, children, family. I realised that if my wife wanted to reconcile then I did too - because I felt the love there. I wouldn't have stayed just "for the kids" - although that is another very good reason to try to rescue the M.

 

This didn't change the fact that I had feelings for the OW, because I did - very genuine feelings. But I saw so clearly how I should never have got involved in the A in the first place. My marriage just needed TLC. Instead of telling my wife I was feeling unsatisfied and I was worried whether we loved each other any more, I distanced myself emotionally...and fell into an affair. Massive, massive mistake - a mistake that I will never fully get over.

 

Nearly two years after that disclosure, we are doing quite well in reconciliation, but it's a long road. My A broke several hearts and has changed my wife and I (and probably the OW) psychologically forever. But we will survive. We have to!

 

I will never forget the OW, my feelings for her were genuine, but they never should have been allowed to develop in the first place. This will be unpleasant for BS to read - but certain memories of her I will always cherish, selfish though that is - but I will lock them away only to be visited very occassionally. Every day I wish her nothing but the very best for her future. I hope she learns from what happened and never puts herself in a situation to be so hurt again. She deserves to be happy...and so do you Rebel.

 

Now, from what you've said, there are differences in our stories, but also quite a few parallels to be drawn. The one thing I feel quite strongly about is that he wasn't just deliberately telling you a pack of lies, he was simply a lost soul in love and out of control in a situation that never should have been allowed to arise in the first place. He allowed himself to be swallowed up by the fantasies and I'm sure he believed what he said. But when faced with the realities - his wife's pain and the thought of hurting his daughter and compromising his R with her, it brought him crashing back down to earth. But that doesn't mean his feelings for you weren't genuine - I'm quite sure they were and that he will never forget you.

 

Good luck Rebel! Stick to NC. First 3 months are brutal, then you will start to find yourself again...and great times await. I am sure!

 

 

Jenkins, thank you. I wanted to take some time to get my head out of this situation and not focus on it so I made the conscious decision not to post on here, but I did read your post. Your words really helped with that as, for the first time, I could see maybe why he made the choice that he had and how the reality of what he had done could change everything he thought he wanted with me. I want to allow him to try and reconcile properly with his wife as that's the choice he has made. So I felt focusing on me and my life (rather than the situation) would help...and coming on LS was keeping me focussed on the situation in a way.

 

For the most part it's helped and the last week or so has been good. I've had moments of being sad, hurt angry and missing him like mad. But I've also had moments of clarity about the situation, and lots of moments of genuine happiness and hope. I almost feel like my old self most of the time.

 

yesyerday it all went a bit wrong. I messaged him saying how angry I was about all the lies he's told me for the last year. He hasn't replied and I have no inclination to contact him again. I know I don't want to be with him, I don't even really want to see him again. Unfortunately I have to at work, but I'm putting things in place to try and minimise that as much as possible. At this point I really would prefer never to see him again. I want him to make his marriage work, or at least try his best to do that. And I want more for myself than anything he can offer.

 

I still can't help but see him as weak as he is, as far as I know, not being honest with his wife, and I genuinely believe if all things were equal he would be with me. But all things aren't equal and he has a child and a history with his wife and I accept now that is enough to overpower any love between us, if it was love. He also has love for his wife, in whatever form that is. I'm no longer angry that he hasn't picked us and the future we planned, but rather that he had lied to me and everyone else for so long. I'm also angry at myself for the way I have acted and the mess I've created in the life of an innocent woman. I am disgusted with myself for even considering building my future on the ruins of hers. Those things alone are enough to convince me that I will not have anything to do with him, regardless of how much I miss him.

 

I also see that if it felt *this* good with the crumbs of love it will hopefully feel so much better when I'm with somebody I can fully be with.

 

So that's where my head's at. Hopefully it lasts when he's back next week.

[stillafool]

This is something I think about frequently. I can't even imagine what she must be feeling. The first time that really hit me was when he started having doubts about us, and I hated myself for the pain I caused her. I wish there was some way to make it better, but I know there isn't. I will stay away from him so that their R had a fighting chance.

 

 

His wife is probably immune to his cheating by now. This isn't her first ride in this rodeo.

[aileD]

His wife is probably immune to his cheating by now. This isn't her first ride in this rodeo.

 

You don't get immune to things like this

[stillafool]

You don't get immune to things like this

 

Lots of women do. My uncle cheated on my aunt for decades until she just didn't care anymore as long as it wasn't thrown in her face. She no longer wanted him sexually but didn't want to give up her lifestyle and all they had built together. She wouldn't let him touch her with a 10 foot pole. They even had separate bedrooms when she got older.

[aileD]

Lots of women do. My uncle cheated on my aunt for decades until she just didn't care anymore as long as it wasn't thrown in her face. She no longer wanted him sexually but didn't want to give up her lifestyle and all they had built together. She wouldn't let him touch her with a 10 foot pole. They even had separate bedrooms when she got older.

 

That's not immunity. That's a choice.

[jenkins95]

Jenkins, thank you. I wanted to take some time to get my head out of this situation and not focus on it so I made the conscious decision not to post on here, but I did read your post. Your words really helped with that as, for the first time, I could see maybe why he made the choice that he had and how the reality of what he had done could change everything he thought he wanted with me. I want to allow him to try and reconcile properly with his wife as that's the choice he has made. So I felt focusing on me and my life (rather than the situation) would help...and coming on LS was keeping me focussed on the situation in a way.

 

For the most part it's helped and the last week or so has been good. I've had moments of being sad, hurt angry and missing him like mad. But I've also had moments of clarity about the situation, and lots of moments of genuine happiness and hope. I almost feel like my old self most of the time.

 

yesyerday it all went a bit wrong. I messaged him saying how angry I was about all the lies he's told me for the last year. He hasn't replied and I have no inclination to contact him again. I know I don't want to be with him, I don't even really want to see him again. Unfortunately I have to at work, but I'm putting things in place to try and minimise that as much as possible. At this point I really would prefer never to see him again. I want him to make his marriage work, or at least try his best to do that. And I want more for myself than anything he can offer.

 

I still can't help but see him as weak as he is, as far as I know, not being honest with his wife, and I genuinely believe if all things were equal he would be with me. But all things aren't equal and he has a child and a history with his wife and I accept now that is enough to overpower any love between us, if it was love. He also has love for his wife, in whatever form that is. I'm no longer angry that he hasn't picked us and the future we planned, but rather that he had lied to me and everyone else for so long. I'm also angry at myself for the way I have acted and the mess I've created in the life of an innocent woman. I am disgusted with myself for even considering building my future on the ruins of hers. Those things alone are enough to convince me that I will not have anything to do with him, regardless of how much I miss him.

 

I also see that if it felt *this* good with the crumbs of love it will hopefully feel so much better when I'm with somebody I can fully be with.

 

So that's where my head's at. Hopefully it lasts when he's back next week.

 

Thanks for replying to my post Rebel. I'm very impressed at what you wrote here - your attitude here bodes very well for your future I think. Well done!

 

One word I really want to pick out from your post is weak! Bingo! If you look over my recent posts you'll likely see that word repeated over 10 times.

 

We MMs, including me and your ex MM are very weak - it's one of our character flaws. I was weak not too talk to my wife like an adult when I get dissatisfied. I was weak to fall into an affair and not foresee the consequences. I was weak to lie and cheat to cover my back. I was weak not to end it quickly when I knew it had to end. I was weak weak weak - and it all caught up with my when my world blew up. Perhaps the same can be said for your MM?

 

Another very common character flaw - conflict avoidance. Again I have a very extreme case of this and so probably has your MM. Weakness, dissatisfaction plus conflict avoidance very often leads to infidelity. And because the MM is weak and conflict avoidant, when everything hits the fan and the MM has to step up, grow a pair and make life-affecting decisions, he is often completely unequipped to deal with this, implodes, shuts down and leaves everyone around him in a mess.

 

You and I, plus the people in our stories​ have learned this the hard way.

 

At least you can see him for what he is - if you had started a legitime relationship with him, chances are his weakness and conflict avoidance (plus likely many other faults) would have crept into your relationship too. The same is true if my A had turned into a real relationship.

 

I hope eventually, when the time is right, you give a good, strong man, who doesn't deal with life difficulties in this way. As for me and your MM, it's a big lesson too - our flaws have been laid bare and if we don't learn from this then there is little hope for us.

 

Good luck Rebel!

[Vareg]

I've been in a relationship with a MM for around 11 months.

 

Fornication is just asking for trouble, fornication is bad news. And a married person who cheats on its spouse will eventually cheat on you someday, if you ever be the one that gets chosen anyway. But since you went along for the ride, accepting to be treated as a third wheel, you will never get true respect from that married person anyway. To have a healthy successful steady relationship you have to find yourself someone that is not only available, but sincere too, otherwise it's plain masochism and you're embarking for hell.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Vareg

[Overtaxed]

Thanks for replying to my post Rebel. I'm very impressed at what you wrote here - your attitude here bodes very well for your future I think. Well done!

 

One word I really want to pick out from your post is weak! Bingo! If you look over my recent posts you'll likely see that word repeated over 10 times.

 

We MMs, including me and your ex MM are very weak - it's one of our character flaws. I was weak not too talk to my wife like an adult when I get dissatisfied. I was weak to fall into an affair and not foresee the consequences. I was weak to lie and cheat to cover my back. I was weak not to end it quickly when I knew it had to end. I was weak weak weak - and it all caught up with my when my world blew up. Perhaps the same can be said for your MM?

 

Another very common character flaw - conflict avoidance. Again I have a very extreme case of this and so probably has your MM. Weakness, dissatisfaction plus conflict avoidance very often leads to infidelity. And because the MM is weak and conflict avoidant, when everything hits the fan and the MM has to step up, grow a pair and make life-affecting decisions, he is often completely unequipped to deal with this, implodes, shuts down and leaves everyone around him in a mess.

 

You and I, plus the people in our stories​ have learned this the hard way.

 

At least you can see him for what he is - if you had started a legitime relationship with him, chances are his weakness and conflict avoidance (plus likely many other faults) would have crept into your relationship too. The same is true if my A had turned into a real relationship.

 

I hope eventually, when the time is right, you give a good, strong man, who doesn't deal with life difficulties in this way. As for me and your MM, it's a big lesson too - our flaws have been laid bare and if we don't learn from this then there is little hope for us.

 

Good luck Rebel!

 

I love this post, especially the bolded. That's the thing I don't think AP's get (of either sex), if you are lucky enough to "win" your AP's "love", guess what? You'll be in the same situation soon enough on the other side. Do you really (in this situation) think it's his wife that's so terrible he's doing this? Or do you think it's really him? Hint, most of the time, it's him. Has nothing to do with you, or her. It's just a weakness in his character; he might be a fantastic guy, but, by doing this he's showing you in no uncertain terms that he is weak, and will very likely be weak again with you.