MM left wife, and now me

[MidnightBlue1980]

I hadn't thought of it like that. I know right now MM would do a combination of both, tell me ok but try to convince me otherwise. Silence would work best. I'm just worried I will hurt and upset him. How stupid is that?!

 

It's not stupid. Just realize that MM knows this about you and is using it to his advantage.

[sandylee1]

That marry me or end it got me thinking. I've a friend whose husband said something similar. What my friend said, is if he didn't want to get married when she did, they best end it.

 

He didn't want to end it and they got married.

He had the freedom to walk away and he didn't.

 

The truth with my friend, is that he knew she'd have no problem finding another guy and he was scared of loosing her.

 

She could have done way better than him and I wish he had walked away TBH.

 

What I see with your MM, is a man who refuses to take responsibility for anything in his life and blames anyone but himself.

 

The problem here is him. Not his wife, but him and if he wasn't feeling it enough after 5 years, then why didn't he have the guts to leave her?

 

Do you see a pattern here? He was wasting her time then and he's wasting your time now.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Everything you've said is spot on!! I think it's hard for anyone to be friends when feelings are involved and maybe, because of the nature of an A it's even harder because we are used to accepting 'less than' we normally would in a relationship, so I can imagine even a friendship could be enough to provide hope.

 

Yes, I agree with this. I accepted much less from xMM mainly to avoid hurting his daughter who was in her last year of high school, and hurting the other people in his life, too. It was a high price to pay for myself though, and ultimately I don't think he realized my sacrifice let alone appreciate it. I would never accept from ANYONE else, any type of relationship, the crap I accepted from him. You are doing amazing! Hugs!

[HadMeOverABarrel]

" Sometimes silence is the best way to let someone know they did something wrong"

"Silence cannot be misquoted"

"Silence speaks volumes"

 

I would tell you from my own experience, that telling him how you can't be friends will go one of two ways - he will use your statement as a sign of weakness and argue back, making his case about why you are wrong to feel the way you do. Or, he will say - you are right - and you will then feel like total crap.

 

Say absolutely nothing. It will send the best message and put you in a place of personal power and strength. Talk to him and you risk handing that strength over to him. Remember, what he wants is to be in control. Don't let him.

 

I agree with this, and did this with my xMM, but would like to add:

do some mental yoga first. In other words, be prepared for whatever follows. I felt and feel good that I took this position, but I was not prepared that he gave up so easily after I did. That itself took months for me to get past. Sometimes it felt like he dumped me even though I'm the one that cut contact. Sometimes I felt like it showed how little he really cared in reality. Other times, I felt like that was xMM's punishment for me taking away his candy...and maybe his way of trying to reassert control, like, "Oh so you think you'll cut contact with me? Well, then I'll cut contact with you." Maybe your MM is not as much of an A-hole, but be prepared for anything.

Edited May 20, 2017 by HadMeOverABarrel

[FoundMyStrength]

I agree with this, and did this with my xMM, but would like to add:

do some mental yoga first. In other words, be prepared for whatever follows. I felt and feel good that I took this position, but I was not prepared that he gave up so easily after I did. That itself took months for me to get past. Sometimes it felt like he dumped me even though I'm the one that cut contact. Sometimes I felt like it showed how little he really cared in reality. Other times, I felt like that was xMM's punishment for me taking away his candy...and maybe his way of trying to reassert control, like, "Oh so you think you'll cut contact with me? Well, then I'll cut contact with you." Maybe your MM is not as much of an A-hole, but be prepared for anything.

 

I second the be prepared for anything approach. I believe my xMM also took the punish me with silence approach after I cut off contact. And I agree, it felt like a way to reassert control. He spent much of the affair managing me, my expectations, and what went on in the affair. This was really the only time I was actually in the driver's seat. I don't think he liked it one bit.

 

I think when the OW finally and for good cuts off contact, there can be a range of hurtful MM reactions. Just like little children throwing a tantrum.

[Rebelnoir]

That marry me or end it got me thinking. I've a friend whose husband said something similar. What my friend said, is if he didn't want to get married when she did, they best end it.

 

He didn't want to end it and they got married.

He had the freedom to walk away and he didn't.

 

The truth with my friend, is that he knew she'd have no problem finding another guy and he was scared of loosing her.

 

She could have done way better than him and I wish he had walked away TBH.

 

What I see with your MM, is a man who refuses to take responsibility for anything in his life and blames anyone but himself.

 

The problem here is him. Not his wife, but him and if he wasn't feeling it enough after 5 years, then why didn't he have the guts to leave her?

 

Do you see a pattern here? He was wasting her time then and he's wasting your time now.

 

Yes, he has wasted so many years of his wife's life. She could have found somebody who thought the sun shined out of her bum and would never have cheated or contemplated leaving. Instead what she got is a husband who felt he had settled, thinks he is better than her and has lied to her throughout their relationship.

 

And yes he's wasting my life as he knows I want a family of my own and, although he can't give me that, he will happily continue spending time with me in the name of 'love'. That isn't love. It's selfishness.

[Rebelnoir]

Yes, I agree with this. I accepted much less from xMM mainly to avoid hurting his daughter who was in her last year of high school, and hurting the other people in his life, too. It was a high price to pay for myself though, and ultimately I don't think he realized my sacrifice let alone appreciate it. I would never accept from ANYONE else, any type of relationship, the crap I accepted from him. You are doing amazing! Hugs!

 

Thank you. Unfortunately love makes us do silly things, and in the heat of the relationship you justify it all away even though you know it's hurtful, crap behaviour!

[Rebelnoir]

I agree with this, and did this with my xMM, but would like to add:

do some mental yoga first. In other words, be prepared for whatever follows. I felt and feel good that I took this position, but I was not prepared that he gave up so easily after I did. That itself took months for me to get past. Sometimes it felt like he dumped me even though I'm the one that cut contact. Sometimes I felt like it showed how little he really cared in reality. Other times, I felt like that was xMM's punishment for me taking away his candy...and maybe his way of trying to reassert control, like, "Oh so you think you'll cut contact with me? Well, then I'll cut contact with you." Maybe your MM is not as much of an A-hole, but be prepared for anything.

 

Glad you warned me about this, I hadn't thought about it but you're right and I know it'd hurt. I guess I just need to focus on why I can't be friends with him. It doesn't mean I don't love him, so then I have to accept it may be the case for him too. If he wants to work on his marriage (which it appears he does) a friendship isn't going to be ok. So if he doesn't reach out, that's why. I'm sure it will hurt me. I can already feel myself thinking, he will reach out!

[Rebelnoir]

I second the be prepared for anything approach. I believe my xMM also took the punish me with silence approach after I cut off contact. And I agree, it felt like a way to reassert control. He spent much of the affair managing me, my expectations, and what went on in the affair. This was really the only time I was actually in the driver's seat. I don't think he liked it one bit.

 

I think when the OW finally and for good cuts off contact, there can be a range of hurtful MM reactions. Just like little children throwing a tantrum.

 

Oh yes I can imagine the lack of control is difficult for them! I hope I feel like you, that cutting off contact gives me some semblance of control. I really do need it.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Oh yes I can imagine the lack of control is difficult for them! I hope I feel like you, that cutting off contact gives me some semblance of control. I really do need it.

 

You know, Rebelnoir, one thing I'm starting to understand now that I'm almost 8 months out is the dynamic of control in an A. MM/MW must absolutely delight in it being that they are in the catbird seat. On one hand they have a socially accepted family life with all the perks, a smitten, adulating OW/OM on a string like a puppet on the other, and most importantly they are the only ones who know the whole truth about any of it. That must feel powerful for them. I used to think that xMM must've felt guilty hiding this secret from all the significant people in his life, but now I see he more likely enjoyed it in a sick, twisted, perverted way that he was being devious, getting away with it, and was the only one who knew what he was up to....giving a sense of power over his life and those potentially affected by his actions. Eureka! I think I finally answered one of my questions, which is why he loved so much that I called him devious. Three times he told me how much he liked my saying so in response to the one time I said it.

 

Anyhow, back to topic...sorry! I think OW/OM cede much power (way more than other relationships) to their xMM/MW...it's the nature of the beast. MM/MW control the traffic flow with OW/OM. Stop, my BS is on to something. Go, the coast is clear. Yield, we have to reduce contact in some way (frequency, method, timing) because the cop (BS) is suspicious. These traffic signs can be totally irrespective of the BS because maybe MM/MW just wants to slow down OW/OM for other reasons: OW/OM becoming too demanding; MM/MW need time and space for another OW/OM (if they enjoy multiples); etcetera. Meanwhile OW/OM become more and more frazzled and worn down. Is the coast clear? Can I express my affection for you now? I just want to love you. Can I? So unnatural. So unhealthy. Such conditioning. Now I see how LS folks talk about MM/MW grooming their OW/OM. I also think MM/MW have a tendency to be lazy. If they weren't, they'd work on the problems in themselves and their marriages. So that's why they prefer to return to their already groomed supply. Lots of work to identify someone in the first place who they can sink hooks into, and then the work to manage down expectations through the traffic control.

 

Writing this out helped me a ton, and I hope it helps you, Rebelnoir, and others. Take off the rose colored glasses, dear rebel. This is what is going on behind the scenes whether MM/MW is concious of it or not. I bet the feeling of power and control is one of the most addicting aspects of A for MM/MW. Plus MW/MM crave yummy validation and adulation from OW/OM. OW/OM crave and seek validation from MM/MW, but never quite get it and that's what keeps OW/OM hooked...chasing the love, approval, validation. Now I understand xMM's reaction when I called out my xMM on how he handled my birthday. He was indignant rather than remorseful for hurting my feelings. With my constant supply of adulation, that must have been a shock for him when I rebuked his dimissive behavior (standing up for myself). He must have thought one of my robot, puppet screws must have come loose. Plus, now I think I better understand why I haven't heard a word from xMM in all these months. It has nothing to do with love or lack of it, and everything to do with the quality of supply I provided him. When I began asking for more and standing up for myself, maybe he felt his supply was spoiling. I'm not good supply because I ultimately stood up for myself. He was certainly not going to give me what I asked for, what I deserved (real love), so why would he want to contact me? I'm not a fun plaything anymore.

 

In summary, you cutting contact, you making the decision, will for the rest of your life give you some small peace that after all the crap you accepted, at least you stood up for yourself in the end.

 

Wishing love and peace to you and to all the folks out there who are agonizing in this type of situation.

Edited May 21, 2017 by HadMeOverABarrel

[elaine567]

You know, Rebelnoir, one thing I'm starting to understand now that I'm almost 8 months out is the dynamic of control in an A. MM/MW must absolutely delight in it being that they are in the catbird seat. On one hand they have a socially accepted family life with all the perks, a smitten, adulating OW/OM on a string like a puppet on the other, and most importantly they are the only ones who know the whole truth about any of it. That must feel powerful for them. I used to think that xMM must've felt guilty hiding this secret from all the significant people in his life, but now I see he more likely enjoyed it in a sick, twisted, perverted way that he was being devious, getting away with it, and was the only one who knew what he was up to....giving a sense of power over his life and those potentially affected by his actions. Eureka! I think I finally answered one of my questions, which is why he loved so much that I called him devious. Three times he told me how much he liked my saying so in response to the one time I said it.

 

 

 

Yes, power and control is definitely a factor in some affairs

The Infidelity Megafecta – Non-Sexual Factors

 

1. Power and Control

 

There is often an undercurrent of resentment in the cheater’s decision to have an affair, so affairs commonly have a retributive element to them. There are often power struggles within the marriage and even regular compromises can build resentment. In exploring these issues with cheaters directly, it is apparent how they often use the affair as a way to exercise their personal power in their lives – they’ve made a significant choice for themselves without having to consult their spouse or compromise their own desires.

During an affair, the cheater has all the control. They possess all the facts and decide who has access to that same level of information. They decide what they tell their spouse, what they tell the affair partner, and what the rules are for the affair. They withhold access to information that might give others power in the situation, and use that withholding to preserve their marriage while enjoying the escape and sanctuary the affair represents.

Whilst few will admit it, an affair is often the cheater’s own private rebellion against societal norms, familial expectations, religious teachings, and their obligations, fueled by their own dissatisfactions. This can covertly undermine the relational dynamic in which the cheater believes themselves trapped or in some way disadvantaged by their participation in that relationship.

 

[FoundMyStrength]

Not to t/j, but following up on HadMeOver, I wonder how many of our xMM feel a lack of control in their home life, leading them to situations like an affair where they have an OW they can exert control over. Mine did this too, especially with respect to how the physical aspect of the affair progressed. In retrospect, I see that he often set me up with situations where I'd need to ask for more, allowing him to reject me or to feel like he was just a "good guy" led astray by my desires. And I definitely got the sense after he returned home to live with his wife that he enjoyed having someone so enthralled with him, sending him loving message after message even as he made a conscious choice to pull back himself.

 

His situation was that he lived in a foreign country with his wife to be closer to her family and advance her career. I got the impression he got the short end of the stick with the move and was deeply unhappy there. He gave up a career type job with an organization he loved and was unemployed for a long stretch. He had an almost "methinks thou dost protest too much" kind of thing going on when he'd explain the power dynamic in his marriage. I don't think he had much of a voice in his marriage, so I think he reasserted his power with me. And was pretty damn cruel when I took my power back.

 

Not a terrible human being, but a selfish one, and cruel in the way children can be cruel to insects or animals as they "play" with them thoughtlessly.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Yes, power and control is definitely a factor in some affairs

 

Rebel, please forgive my tj. Elaine, I thought of you while I wrote my post. Nothing specific but reminded me of the tone in your posts. Thank you for your response...makes me feel like I'm really seeing this for what it was. Also, I realized that I was a crutch to xMM in the way described in your post above. It gives me a sense of satisfaction that I removed that crutch forcing him to deal more directly with his issues even if just briefly (until he finds another crutch).

 

My next big question to solve is...why BS stay married to unremorseful serial cheaters. Must be the opposite side of same coin as to why OW/OM stay involved with the cheater. I want to understand this because it's what my mother did. It made me lose all respect for her when I was only 14 years old.

Edited May 21, 2017 by HadMeOverABarrel

[jah526]

You know, Rebelnoir, one thing I'm starting to understand now that I'm almost 8 months out is the dynamic of control in an A. MM/MW must absolutely delight in it being that they are in the catbird seat. On one hand they have a socially accepted family life with all the perks, a smitten, adulating OW/OM on a string like a puppet on the other, and most importantly they are the only ones who know the whole truth about any of it. That must feel powerful for them. I used to think that xMM must've felt guilty hiding this secret from all the significant people in his life, but now I see he more likely enjoyed it in a sick, twisted, perverted way that he was being devious, getting away with it, and was the only one who knew what he was up to....giving a sense of power over his life and those potentially affected by his actions. Eureka! I think I finally answered one of my questions, which is why he loved so much that I called him devious. Three times he told me how much he liked my saying so in response to the one time I said it.

 

Mine actually told me, before I even got involved with him, that he was a "sneaky guy". Said with a smile on his face, and obviously delighted with himself. I should've listened to him then...

[Chica80]

Yes, power and control is definitely a factor in some affairs

 

Holy $!!t.....I think my brain just exploded......

 

Whilst few will admit it, an affair is often the cheater’s own private rebellion against societal norms, familial expectations, religious teachings, and their obligations, fueled by their own dissatisfactions. This can covertly undermine the relational dynamic in which the cheater believes themselves trapped or in some way disadvantaged by their participation in that relationship.

 

THIS!!!!!

 

I said something to AP once....it's like a puzzle but we only get pieces you're the only one who has a view of the whole puzzle.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Sunshinechica

[MidnightBlue1980]

Mine actually told me, before I even got involved with him, that he was a "sneaky guy". Said with a smile on his face, and obviously delighted with himself. I should've listened to him then...

 

Kinda like mine, telling me in the beginning how he had been looking for an affair for 5 years (and how he had attempted but been shot down) and how excited he was about all this with me.

[jah526]

Kinda like mine, telling me in the beginning how he had been looking for an affair for 5 years (and how he had attempted but been shot down) and how excited he was about all this with me.

 

Wow, nothing if not persistent, huh? Wouldn't it have just been easier to get a divorce? Tells you how much time these guys have to spare.

[FoundMyStrength]

Kinda like mine, telling me in the beginning how he had been looking for an affair for 5 years (and how he had attempted but been shot down) and how excited he was about all this with me.

 

And like mine, who never called himself sneaky, but would get devilish grins when he talked about how he was "indulging" himself in the affair. Sometimes he acted like a little kid who'd been given the most awesome, super secret present ever. Too bad he broke it beyond repair. Now he doesn't get to ever have it again.

[sandylee1]

I suspect ED would make it a bit tricky to attract an AP and it's no surprise it took 5 years.

 

Looking for an A, should have told you all you needed to know.

[Rebelnoir]

So I've been a bit quite the last few weeks. MM is back from his holiday and we've quickly gotten into a routine of hanging out at work, a few lunches, phone calls and messages. He has tried to kiss me a few times and we have discussed resuming the physical side of the affair. However, I haven't responded to his advances and I've made it clear that I don't think sleeping together is the right thing to do given he is trying to R. It's just hard, when I see him I still love him and I want him to change his mind and decide that he wants me.

 

He's still saying it's because of his daughter and I believe that, but I can also see the relief he has in getting his life back. We've discussed this a bit and he says he knows he would've had a better life with me but it was too hard. It's just bizarre that he wants the life he claimed he was so unhappy in. That he's suddenly decided he can't be away from his child and, mostly, that he seems happy to have me on the side without any thought for what it would do to his marriage if she found out yet again. He says just enough to keep me there...he can't leave yet, maybe one day, he doesn't know what he wants, he loves me and wants me, I confuse him etc etc

 

I guess I've come to a place where I don't want to be with him, not really. I don't want to be responsible for the end of their marriage in this way. It's one thing for a guy to leave because that's what he wants and it's quite another to attempt to convince him to leave (just to be clear, I'm not doing that). I just don't know how to let him go, because I do love him and he loves me. It's like the rational part of my brain has it figured out and then all of a sudden my heart takes over when I see him or speak to him. Has anyone got any advice?

[freengreen]

So I've been a bit quite the last few weeks. MM is back from his holiday and we've quickly gotten into a routine of hanging out at work, a few lunches, phone calls and messages. He has tried to kiss me a few times and we have discussed resuming the physical side of the affair. However, I haven't responded to his advances and I've made it clear that I don't think sleeping together is the right thing to do given he is trying to R. It's just hard, when I see him I still love him and I want him to change his mind and decide that he wants me.

 

He's still saying it's because of his daughter and I believe that, but I can also see the relief he has in getting his life back. We've discussed this a bit and he says he knows he would've had a better life with me but it was too hard. It's just bizarre that he wants the life he claimed he was so unhappy in. That he's suddenly decided he can't be away from his child and, mostly, that he seems happy to have me on the side without any thought for what it would do to his marriage if she found out yet again. He says just enough to keep me there...he can't leave yet, maybe one day, he doesn't know what he wants, he loves me and wants me, I confuse him etc etc

 

I guess I've come to a place where I don't want to be with him, not really. I don't want to be responsible for the end of their marriage in this way. It's one thing for a guy to leave because that's what he wants and it's quite another to attempt to convince him to leave (just to be clear, I'm not doing that). I just don't know how to let him go, because I do love him and he loves me. It's like the rational part of my brain has it figured out and then all of a sudden my heart takes over when I see him or speak to him. Has anyone got any advice?

He made a choice to go repair his old relationship, good for his family (?)... thats fine, but he still wont let you go. Do you see what he is doing?, bringing you to square one. Like someone said, you are not going to stop anyone when they plan to use you, its what they want to do... what you can do is to not let them get away with it.

 

He decided to keep you on the side as long as you will allow him to, the ball is your court now...

[aileD]

Ask him to show you the photos they took on their holiday. All of them.

 

Maybe then it will help things sink in.

 

I'm sorry you're still going through this. Really nothing has changed though through all the talk. Nothing has changed

 

If you're not strong enough to let it go cold turnkey....just ignore his calls more and more and let it dwindle off

Edited June 12, 2017 by aileD

[BaileyB]

So I've been a bit quite the last few weeks. MM is back from his holiday and we've quickly gotten into a routine of hanging out at work, a few lunches, phone calls and messages. He has tried to kiss me a few times and we have discussed resuming the physical side of the affair. However, I haven't responded to his advances and I've made it clear that I don't think sleeping together is the right thing to do given he is trying to R. It's just hard, when I see him I still love him and I want him to change his mind and decide that he wants me.

 

He's still saying it's because of his daughter and I believe that, but I can also see the relief he has in getting his life back. We've discussed this a bit and he says he knows he would've had a better life with me but it was too hard. It's just bizarre that he wants the life he claimed he was so unhappy in. That he's suddenly decided he can't be away from his child and, mostly, that he seems happy to have me on the side without any thought for what it would do to his marriage if she found out yet again. He says just enough to keep me there...he can't leave yet, maybe one day, he doesn't know what he wants, he loves me and wants me, I confuse him etc etc

 

I guess I've come to a place where I don't want to be with him, not really. I don't want to be responsible for the end of their marriage in this way. It's one thing for a guy to leave because that's what he wants and it's quite another to attempt to convince him to leave (just to be clear, I'm not doing that). I just don't know how to let him go, because I do love him and he loves me. It's like the rational part of my brain has it figured out and then all of a sudden my heart takes over when I see him or speak to him. Has anyone got any advice?

 

I fear that you are in a slippery slope. Please be careful - I don't think it's possible to continue contact with this man and no slip back into the affair.

 

He certainly doesn't seem to have any personal integrity or responsibility to his family if he is still chasing you. I'll say it again, this is not a good guy...

[Starswillshine]

Oh this man, he makes me so damn angry and I don't even know him. He can't make a decision. He deceives you because he isn't strong enough to let you go. And he deceives his wife because he isn't strong enough to let her go. He gives her hope and likely is telling her all these things. She is likely trying like a damn fool to fix her self to have a better marriage. She is fighting for her family. And she will be devastated when this comes out again. (I know, I have lived this side.)

 

And then for you.... He is still keeping you on the hook. Continuing to give you little signs of hope. He may not be so conniving to realize what he is doing, but the false hope he is giving to you both is one of the most cruel things he can do.

 

I am sure he loves you both, but he loves himself most of all and hurting those he "loves" including his daughter .

[whichwayisup]

So I've been a bit quite the last few weeks. MM is back from his holiday and we've quickly gotten into a routine of hanging out at work, a few lunches, phone calls and messages. He has tried to kiss me a few times and we have discussed resuming the physical side of the affair. However, I haven't responded to his advances and I've made it clear that I don't think sleeping together is the right thing to do given he is trying to R. It's just hard, when I see him I still love him and I want him to change his mind and decide that he wants me.

 

He's still saying it's because of his daughter and I believe that, but I can also see the relief he has in getting his life back. We've discussed this a bit and he says he knows he would've had a better life with me but it was too hard. It's just bizarre that he wants the life he claimed he was so unhappy in. That he's suddenly decided he can't be away from his child and, mostly, that he seems happy to have me on the side without any thought for what it would do to his marriage if she found out yet again. He says just enough to keep me there...he can't leave yet, maybe one day, he doesn't know what he wants, he loves me and wants me, I confuse him etc etc

 

He is where he wants to be. Married to his wife living at home. AND, he wants you on the side just as an affair, nothing more serious. He's selfish! He couldn't care less about the affect this has on you or obviously his wife if she finds out again he's been up to no good behind her back.

 

Bolded part: This is on you now, not him. You're allowing him to give you hope knowing full well he isn't leaving or divorcing.

 

If you are OK with being his OW indefinitely then stay on this path and cling to hope that 'someday' he'll be yours.

 

OR, you can END everything with him now and really begin your grieving and healing process. Do counseling, do everything you can to get your life healthy and when the timing is right/better, find a great (single) guy who will love you, respect you and put you first.

 

I guess I've come to a place where I don't want to be with him, not really. I don't want to be responsible for the end of their marriage in this way. It's one thing for a guy to leave because that's what he wants and it's quite another to attempt to convince him to leave (just to be clear, I'm not doing that). I just don't know how to let him go, because I do love him and he loves me. It's like the rational part of my brain has it figured out and then all of a sudden my heart takes over when I see him or speak to him. Has anyone got any advice?

 

Please do counseling to help you get strong enough so you can end it. The choices you're making by staying with him is slowly killing you. You know better and instead of listening to your gut and head, you're letting your heart and emotions make the wrong decisions.

 

You need to quit your job, block him and make it impossible for him to contact you.

 

You can DO this if you really want it over.