Midnight reading

[Clockwatching]

I thought I'd share my story, a year and a half after it's over as I see a lot of patterns amongst the people here and this part of my life has been in many ways transformational for me, painful, but transformational, and I thought if someone reads it that it may help someone else.

 

 

It's the usual story really, I didn't think I'd ever be here – I've never cheated on anyone or assisted anyone to cheat before – it's never been a dream, fantasy or goal of mine so it bewildered me how I went ahead with what I did, and also how unaffected emotionally I was by my affair. I didn't feel an ounce of remorse or guilt, it felt natural between us. I was the single other woman and he was married.

 

 

While he was working in my area (he was a contractor that worked from place to place) things were good, we had a great relationship until his contract ended and he had to go home. I knew when he left that it wasn't sustainable and I assumed that he would acknowledge the same, and that it wouldn't continue. He lived 150 miles away from me, it couldn't possibly work.

 

 

It became clear that he wanted to continue - I did too and I knew emotionally I was too involved to stop although I did try, then broke and we started again. It was overwhelming, the feelings I had when he was such a marginal part of my life led to my self esteem plummeting, I became apathetic with my life, I waited on every phone call and tried to be as engaging as possible even though I was emotionally destitute and unable to live my life.

 

 

I did the only right and honourable thing, and pretended to be happy.

 

 

I went to see him about once month, travelling that far to see him for just a couple of hours. He made it clear that he may never leave his wife and so he wasn't going to promise anything to me, and to be honest, I didn't want him to. I didn't know who I was any more let alone what I wanted from him, and having been through a divorce myself I already knew that if he did leave, there was one emotional sh*tstorm waiting to happen and that the affair itself was just a symptom of deeper problems for him, and also for me.

 

 

What I couldn't figure out for the life of me, was what the deeper problems were for me – what are the issues that led me here, that got me so hooked, that made me so desperate in the end?

 

 

I ended the sexual part of our relationship a few months after the long distance visiting had been going on – I can't do disconnected sex, before that, we had made love, and now I felt like a vessel for his fantasy and escape and it made me feel empty and destitute. I had expected him to not speak to me again, I was feeling used and was really hoping he would prove me right and reject me so that I could get angry and get over him.

 

 

It didn't happen, the emotional aspect of the affair continued under the guise of friendship, and I struggled to really feel that way about him – as just platonic. A few months after that I had truly reached rock bottom, and we stopped contact under my request.

 

 

I was a shadow of my former self, I was ridden with anxiety, depression, and overwhelming feelings of loneliness and isolation – I had told a couple of people who didn't understand and didn't want to ask too many questions so I really didn't have anyone to share my pain with.

 

 

I spent the next couple of months trying to forget him, trying not to check up on him, I had absolutely no impulse to contact him at all because I had nothing left, but I couldn't shake the ghost that haunted me every single day when I woke up, and every day when I went to bed.

 

 

It was one day that I came across a video on youtube that I realised what my problem was, and what my problem always had been – what I had done throughout my entire life and throughout my relationships that had gone wrong. I had never known why things didn't work out for me in my relationships to the point where I avoided them completely, and then got involved with a married man, and I had now found my answer.

 

 

It was like waking up from the matrix, and I had absolutely no preparation for it and no co-ordinates.

 

 

You see, when I met him, I had felt in a comparatively good place – I say comparatively as I really have had no 'great' place to compare it to. I was feeling ok (I have always struggled with depression and anxiety in dips and troughs), pretty comfortable in my own skin, and pretty open rather than closed off. What I couldn't understand was how I got from there, to a place of utter despair – what had happened?

 

 

I had always known that there was something missing, something lacking in me, I call it the void, because that's how it feels. There was something in me that I lacked and I felt everyone else had, somehow I was weak and less than, and I couldn't figure out what that was or where it came from.

 

 

The answer is essentially identity – throughout most, if not all of the relationships had been in, I had moulded myself to my impression of what was lovable to them – my first boyfriend, he was into physics and science, I had a marginal interest but it became a big thing, my second boyfriend was into computers and gadgets, material things, that became my thing, my next partner was into art and creativity and that became my thing.

 

 

At no point to my recollection in my family life, my social life or my romantic life could I hold on to my own identity and say 'this is who I am' – I always ended up melding myself into a version of what was lovable, identifiable and relatable to my partner. So I lost all sense of myself, and searched for validation, love and acceptance through changing who I was.

 

 

I am co-dependent. (Recovering.)

 

 

When I look back to my childhood, that's how I survived – I was brought up by narcissists and a completely disconnected parent – emotional neglect and psychological abuse was rife, then I was bullied, then I was raped. The survival mechanism for me has always been to shape myself to the expectations and desires of other people, to be safe, accepted and in some way (although it's an illusion) loved.

 

 

Your early years shape your life – if you were brought up in an abusive household, where you felt invisible, shamed, punished for any kind of individual expression, repressed, bullied, you name it – a very common coping mechanism is to hide inside yourself.

 

 

The problem with hiding inside yourself is that you never get to explore and develop who you actually are, you're too busy trying to stay safe inside the shell of a person you have become and you become emotionally stunted.

 

 

That's the void, that's the chronic loneliness and sadness that lies within – there are major aspects of yourself that are unexpressed, ignored, denied and pushed away – your self, your personhood, your individuality is therefore never connected truly to anyone else in your life, ever. If there's a base for loneliness, that's it.

 

 

That's the basics, but it's like an onion – you remove one layer and there is more underneath – I had numbed myself so much, denied my true feelings so much that I had no idea how despairing I actually felt.

 

 

And here was a man who I connected with – he accepted all aspects of myself (at least, the parts that I chose to reveal). He appreciated me, he was emotionally connected to me – we could sit in silence and feel the air between us like a warm blanket, or we could talk about anything – I felt validated, seen, heard, connected, he had touched my heart.

 

 

What part of that, for a co-dependent is not something that you would sacrifice your values for? The truth is, that we all sacrifice our values for our needs – our primary needs for survival are emotional, not physical, and when those basic needs aren't met, our morals will fall like clay idols.

 

 

Conversely, the truth is that I did the same thing with him that I did with everyone else, I hid certain aspects of myself that I felt were shameful and unlovable. I pretended interest in things that, yes, I liked, but had no passion for. I was again shaping myself to my image of what was lovable, and what was not.

 

 

This got worse when he moved back home, my need to be lovable and to be validated, seen, heard, all of that was out of control – I was desperate and there was no way to get back what we had when he was here. He was gone, and the need to prove myself as worthy was overwhelming.

 

 

Man's search for meaning is exactly that – what do 'I' mean? What am I if I am not loved?

 

 

The problem is that if we categorise parts of ourselves into loveable and not loveable, we are denying the full person that we are, and we cannot be fully loved if we cannot be fully ourselves.

 

 

Surviving like this through my life has been a form of passive suicide, and I have entertained thoughts of active suicide through various stages of it, because I haven't seen the point of being a caged animal in my own body. What underlies this is hopelessness, despair and helplessness.

 

 

Now that through trawling through the dark shadows this last year and a half, and simply the fact that I've given these emotions acknowledgement, my presence, my space and my time, I'm starting to feel better. I understand myself better, I can see what's gone wrong and why and what I can do about it.

 

 

I'm not going to say that this is like the ending in Rocky and suddenly you've taken one swift upper cut to the game of life and you've won the day, it's not like that as life is composition, not a finale. But, I can spend time with my shadows to be able to see the light more frequently than I have done before and I'm seeing possibilities and ways forward.

 

 

Through this journey I have lost friends who I realised were a reflection of my messed up inner world, and who I had to say goodbye to, and I've made new friends that I am getting to know myself with. I've been able to help other people, because now I can see through my own BS, I can help others with theirs. It's a humbling experience.

 

 

Most of us have numbed, suppressed or denied our own emotions and it can take your heart falling apart for you to see the pieces that need putting back together. It's my dream that we can all do this, see and feel the pain and welcome it as a part of ourselves and a part of our life journey.

 

 

We are all such a tapestry of aspects that make us unique, and the things that bring us joy, happiness, grief and pain, are very similar because we all need the same thing – love.

 

 

The question is what does love mean to you? What does it look like and where did you get the idea from?

 

 

Don't beat yourself up for wanting and needing love, it's what everyone wants and it's a good thing, but the methods and reasons of why you try and get it the way that you do may surprise you.

 

 

Hopefully, the journey that you're on will lead you onto love that is more authentic, that touches your heart on a level deeper than you've ever experienced and crashes like waves around you to make your life, quite spectacular.

[freengreen]

Thank you for your post. It is very warm.

 

I learnt after my A that love is a beautiful thing and that so many things try to copy it but these faux love like things cant stand their ground for long and show their real self. I learnt that someone elses love should be considered as precious as mine. I learnt that I cant dispense love to every dick and harry and that it is brittle. I learnt that I cant hurt people who actually do things for me out of love ( not just throw beautiful bunch of words at me).

 

The EA almost made me lose myself but thanks to few other people and LS.. I am still standing.

[Clockwatching]

Hi freengreen,

 

Thank you for giving your insight - I feel that I found love as something of layers rather than something that's easily broken.

 

Most affairs are because of unmet emotional needs, and it takes great self understanding and authenticity to say - this is who I am, this is what I need to feel loved and to feel seen.

 

I look at communication between people, and in my own past, and I see that I could communicate what I felt, but I couldn't see the root of it and what was underneath it.

 

I feel like love is only brittle if we're depending on people to either hold it in their hands or drop it and there's a feeling of insecurity in that, a feeling of lack and dependence.

 

That's when the trust is gone, and you can only build trust through being able to be authentic with yourself and authentic with other people and through allowing that gentle emotional space to begin to know that the you and the other person has their best interests at heart.

 

It takes vulnerability to get there, but if any love is going to be true that needs to take place.

[freengreen]

Hi freengreen,

 

Thank you for giving your insight - I feel that I found love as something of layers rather than something that's easily broken.

 

Most affairs are because of unmet emotional needs, and it takes great self understanding and authenticity to say - this is who I am, this is what I need to feel loved and to feel seen.

 

I look at communication between people, and in my own past, and I see that I could communicate what I felt, but I couldn't see the root of it and what was underneath it.

 

I feel like love is only brittle if we're depending on people to either hold it in their hands or drop it and there's a feeling of insecurity in that, a feeling of lack and dependence.

 

That's when the trust is gone, and you can only build trust through being able to be authentic with yourself and authentic with other people and through allowing that gentle emotional space to begin to know that the you and the other person has their best interests at heart.

 

It takes vulnerability to get there, but if any love is going to be true that needs to take place.

Agree to every point Clock, beautifully put .

[Clockwatching]

Thanks for reading freen, it's good to know I'm not alone

[Chica80]

Yes!! Thank you for sharing.... such good thoughts and reflections....

 

I relate to all of it!

 

Can you share the YouTube video?

[anika99]

That was a great post OP and very relatable. When I was younger I was very much the shell of a person you describe. My only desire was to be loved and validated, I didn't know anything about myself beyond that. I was so fragile because I felt like my very existence depended on the approval of others, especially a man. I had been raised by a mentally disturbed stepfather who was also a religious fanatic, so yes I was very repressed as a child. I was never to assert myself, never allowed to express my emotions, always told I was bad, going to hell, displeasing God, etc. Any time I stepped out of line the punishment was swift and harsh. Sometimes it was only the expression on my face that landed me in big trouble. It has taken me a lifetime to find myself and to embrace my own identity.

 

Your post is so insightful and full of wisdom. Our adult relationships don't happen by accident, there are reasons that we end up in painful relationships and usually those reasons have very little to do with our partner and everything to do with ourselves. Thanks again for sharing your experience and views.

[What_Did_I_Do]

Clock, another brilliant and insightful post. You have again reached to my inner core.

 

At the beginning of my A, I felt strong and empowered which we all now know here, had a definite time limit. The resulting affects though, are/were crippling. Emotional suicide.

 

I am now learning to pay attention to those yearnings (albeit it's a slow process) and redirect into a healthier channel. And during this transformation, I am attracting confident and SINGLE men. We reap what we sow.

 

Would love to PM you

[Overtaxed]

Hi freengreen,

 

Thank you for giving your insight - I feel that I found love as something of layers rather than something that's easily broken.

 

Most affairs are because of unmet emotional needs, and it takes great self understanding and authenticity to say - this is who I am, this is what I need to feel loved and to feel seen.

I look at communication between people, and in my own past, and I see that I could communicate what I felt, but I couldn't see the root of it and what was underneath it.

 

I feel like love is only brittle if we're depending on people to either hold it in their hands or drop it and there's a feeling of insecurity in that, a feeling of lack and dependence.

 

That's when the trust is gone, and you can only build trust through being able to be authentic with yourself and authentic with other people and through allowing that gentle emotional space to begin to know that the you and the other person has their best interests at heart.

 

It takes vulnerability to get there, but if any love is going to be true that needs to take place.

 

I'd adjust the bold above and add "Female affairs". My wife is the only female affair I know of and that was certainly because of unmet emotional needs. However, I know a lot of men who are having affairs, and for them, I've never heard them talk about "unmet emotional needs" as the reason for the A. The reason for the A is almost exclusively "lack of sex" or "lack of good sex" or "a missing sexual act" that their wife won't do.

 

Yes, I'm sure there's an emotional component for some men. But I'm pretty sure that's the minority of affairs for men, just like it's very likely that a woman involved in an A isn't there mostly for the sex, she's likely there for the unmet emotional needs.

[Clockwatching]

Yes!! Thank you for sharing.... such good thoughts and reflections....

 

I relate to all of it!

 

Can you share the YouTube video?

 

Hi Sunshine

 

To be honest I've watched so many videos on this stuff I'm not entirely sure which one exactly it was, but this is a good example of it:

 

 

I thought there might be a few who relate to this stuff around here! It's good to share and acknowledge that this exists, matters and is real. I really hope that if the video's relevant to you that it helps.

[BTDT2012]

I'd adjust the bold above and add "Female affairs". My wife is the only female affair I know of and that was certainly because of unmet emotional needs. However, I know a lot of men who are having affairs, and for them, I've never heard them talk about "unmet emotional needs" as the reason for the A. The reason for the A is almost exclusively "lack of sex" or "lack of good sex" or "a missing sexual act" that their wife won't do.

 

Yes, I'm sure there's an emotional component for some men. But I'm pretty sure that's the minority of affairs for men, just like it's very likely that a woman involved in an A isn't there mostly for the sex, she's likely there for the unmet emotional needs.

 

The vast majority of men don't acknowledge their emotions. They are taught that expression of emotions other than anger is unmanly.

[Clockwatching]

That was a great post OP and very relatable. When I was younger I was very much the shell of a person you describe. My only desire was to be loved and validated, I didn't know anything about myself beyond that. I was so fragile because I felt like my very existence depended on the approval of others, especially a man. I had been raised by a mentally disturbed stepfather who was also a religious fanatic, so yes I was very repressed as a child. I was never to assert myself, never allowed to express my emotions, always told I was bad, going to hell, displeasing God, etc. Any time I stepped out of line the punishment was swift and harsh. Sometimes it was only the expression on my face that landed me in big trouble. It has taken me a lifetime to find myself and to embrace my own identity.

 

Your post is so insightful and full of wisdom. Our adult relationships don't happen by accident, there are reasons that we end up in painful relationships and usually those reasons have very little to do with our partner and everything to do with ourselves. Thanks again for sharing your experience and views.

 

Hi anika,

 

Your upbringing sounds very hurtful and although I didn't have religious fanatics for parents I can relate - I found that I've developed a hypervigilance which has made me extremely empathetic and this has both helped and hindered me in my life.

 

When we use it as a mechanism to avoid anything that makes you feel unsafe (and when that list is vast because the fear is that your boundaries will be violated and you will be abused and have no choices) then it helps us to avoid facing our true feelings and moving into a happier place in our lives.

 

I definitely agree that our upbringing's dictate the relationships we have as an adult, until we become aware. From that standpoint we can change things.

[Clockwatching]

Clock, another brilliant and insightful post. You have again reached to my inner core.

 

At the beginning of my A, I felt strong and empowered which we all now know here, had a definite time limit. The resulting affects though, are/were crippling. Emotional suicide.

 

I am now learning to pay attention to those yearnings (albeit it's a slow process) and redirect into a healthier channel. And during this transformation, I am attracting confident and SINGLE men. We reap what we sow.

 

Would love to PM you

 

I'm glad that you could relate and that it meant something to you what-did-I-do - it was definitely my hope that this would help people out there. Surely message me if you'd like - it's always good to talk!

 

What I found, and I don't know about you, was that although I was feeling stronger and more empowered before my affair began, it was without insight as to my need for validation, or my tendency to use everyone outside me as a means to define myself, and therefore my lack of boundaries - without those things, you're really only going with the flow of the river outside of yourself and not staying with the core truth of who you are.

 

That's why the feeling of lack is therefore always present, because you're always flowing against your true self for the most part.

 

I'm so glad that you're attracting what it is that you really want now! That's a great sign that your energy is flowing in the right direction and you have better understanding of your life and your emotions - big kudos to you!

[Minnie09]

I'd adjust the bold above and add "Female affairs". My wife is the only female affair I know of and that was certainly because of unmet emotional needs. However, I know a lot of men who are having affairs, and for them, I've never heard them talk about "unmet emotional needs" as the reason for the A. The reason for the A is almost exclusively "lack of sex" or "lack of good sex" or "a missing sexual act" that their wife won't do.

 

Yes, I'm sure there's an emotional component for some men. But I'm pretty sure that's the minority of affairs for men, just like it's very likely that a woman involved in an A isn't there mostly for the sex, she's likely there for the unmet emotional needs.

 

You're either right, or - whatever you hear from other male WS - is not authentic, because quite frankly, I don't think they would tell you they're in it for the emotional connection also. I've never heard of men who would discuss those things among their male peers.

 

My A lasted 3 yrs, and I got a lot out of it, and I believe he did, too, in addition to the sex. We went on vacations, spent holidays together, etc. - but who knows, in retrospect, he might have just made the effort for the sex on the side.

[Clockwatching]

I'd adjust the bold above and add "Female affairs". My wife is the only female affair I know of and that was certainly because of unmet emotional needs. However, I know a lot of men who are having affairs, and for them, I've never heard them talk about "unmet emotional needs" as the reason for the A. The reason for the A is almost exclusively "lack of sex" or "lack of good sex" or "a missing sexual act" that their wife won't do.

 

Yes, I'm sure there's an emotional component for some men. But I'm pretty sure that's the minority of affairs for men, just like it's very likely that a woman involved in an A isn't there mostly for the sex, she's likely there for the unmet emotional needs.

 

Hi overtaxed,

 

It's a societal illusion I'm afraid - men are brought up very differently than women, they're taught to buckle up and get on with it, stop whining like a baby and 'be a man'. In reality men are just as emotional as women.

 

If you could see the amount of men that talk to other women (that they're not having sex with) talking about how lonely, insignificant and disconnected in their relationships they are and how they are unable to talk to their male friends because they would be rejected as a result of it, you'd change your mind.

 

It is unfortunately the nature of our society, and it's a massive disservice to humans worldwide and disenfranchises men to the essence of who they are.

 

Men and women generally have a big issue on their hands because of this - women's main gripe about their relationship is that their man is not emotionally connected to them, they don't know how to be present. You'll often here this interpreted as in - we need more quality time, I want more attention, you never compliment me, you never listen to me any more. What's being really said, is that they are not emotionally connected - because of the way that women are raised, this is the way that we communicate love, we operate outside of the mental level and the activity level, and reach from the heart - this is how we're brought up.

 

Men on the other hand are taught that to be a 'good boy', to show appreciation and love he must 'do' things - so they are taught to fix things, change things, be the point of action. In stressful situations such as a job move, house move, children being raised they jump right into action - this shows that they're supporting their family, building, this is showing love to a man. Common man gripes will therefore be - you don't appreciate me any more, we don't have sex any more, I come second to everything else and your friends are more important (likely because there's more connection) etc.

 

For women the doing aspect is disconnection - they are focussed solely on getting things done and the connection from the heart is gone. There's a misunderstanding of communication and needs and a lack of understanding of how to meet those needs, resentments set in because both parties feel neglected, deprived and they each become the enemy to each other.

 

Distance forms, anger sets in, they can't understand each other and don't feel seen or heard, more distance forms, and before you know it, the relationship has gone to hell.

 

Do you see the disparity in how we communicate and what it means for how each sex operates? To the core we are no different, but the way that we cope and the way that we communicate is an entirely different matter.

 

Socialisation has a lot to answer for and is (I believe) the illness that we all need to recover from.

[Overtaxed]

Hi overtaxed,

 

It's a societal illusion I'm afraid - men are brought up very differently than women, they're taught to buckle up and get on with it, stop whining like a baby and 'be a man'. In reality men are just as emotional as women.

 

If you could see the amount of men that talk to other women (that they're not having sex with) talking about how lonely, insignificant and disconnected in their relationships they are and how they are unable to talk to their male friends because they would be rejected as a result of it, you'd change your mind.

 

It is unfortunately the nature of our society, and it's a massive disservice to humans worldwide and disenfranchises men to the essence of who they are.

 

Men and women generally have a big issue on their hands because of this - women's main gripe about their relationship is that their man is not emotionally connected to them, they don't know how to be present. You'll often here this interpreted as in - we need more quality time, I want more attention, you never compliment me, you never listen to me any more. What's being really said, is that they are not emotionally connected - because of the way that women are raised, this is the way that we communicate love, we operate outside of the mental level and the activity level, and reach from the heart - this is how we're brought up.

 

Men on the other hand are taught that to be a 'good boy', to show appreciation and love he must 'do' things - so they are taught to fix things, change things, be the point of action. In stressful situations such as a job move, house move, children being raised they jump right into action - this shows that they're supporting their family, building, this is showing love to a man. Common man gripes will therefore be - you don't appreciate me any more, we don't have sex any more, I come second to everything else and your friends are more important (likely because there's more connection) etc.

 

For women the doing aspect is disconnection - they are focussed solely on getting things done and the connection from the heart is gone. There's a misunderstanding of communication and needs and a lack of understanding of how to meet those needs, resentments set in because both parties feel neglected, deprived and they each become the enemy to each other.

 

Distance forms, anger sets in, they can't understand each other and don't feel seen or heard, more distance forms, and before you know it, the relationship has gone to hell.

 

Do you see the disparity in how we communicate and what it means for how each sex operates? To the core we are no different, but the way that we cope and the way that we communicate is an entirely different matter.

 

Socialisation has a lot to answer for and is (I believe) the illness that we all need to recover from.

 

To the first part, I have to agree with you, I assume that men have a completely different talk track with women, just like you should assume they have with other men. Which is authentic? I have no idea, perhaps neither?

 

What I can tell you, as a man, is that emotional needs for me rank very close to the bottom of things I want/need from a relationship. I simply don't have very much in the way of emotional needs, and those that I do have, are easily filled by my family and the limited sharing I do with my male friends. I'm not going to speak for every man, because, I'm pretty sure I'm different than many, but the way men talk to me rings as "authentic" because, when I'm talking to them, I'm not "hiding" my emotional responses, I simply don't have them or, if I do, I don't need to talk about them.

 

My argument, BTW, for the reason men are talking that way with their female friends is because they know it disarms women, and they are trying to sleep with them. Perhaps some day I'll post up the TXTs between my wife and AP, he said EXACTLY the kind of stuff you mentioned above. Was it because his wife wouldn't listen to him? I sincerely doubt it. It was because he knew that was a way to get my wife engaged/interested and that is the way that women talk to one another, so it feels "safe" (until it's not).

 

I wouldn't really know. I have no female friends, and wouldn't even consider trying to build a friendship with a woman; there's a few billion men out there who I won't have possible sexual tension with, I'd very much prefer to have friendships like that. It's just not worth the fallout, IMHO, sharing from an emotional level is not something I desire enough to seek out a female friend and deal with the possible consequences. Besides, I have my wife (or if I D, another woman I'm intimate with) who I can share all that stuff with if I really wanted to.

 

Now, granted, all men are not like me. I was raised in the "stiff upper lip" school of thought. I turned off my emotional responses early, and I've never really turned them back on except for my wife. But I think I'm more common than you think, and I know my friends, who seek out and engage in A's, are out there looking for women to build that connection with to get sex. Do they also want the EA? Who knows, perhaps. But absent some very strong evidence to the contrary, I'd assume that a man entering into an A is there for sex, just like I'd assume that a woman in the same situation is there for the emotional connection.

[Overtaxed]

What's being really said, is that they are not emotionally connected - because of the way that women are raised, this is the way that we communicate love, we operate outside of the mental level and the activity level, and reach from the heart - this is how we're brought up.

 

Sorry to post back to back, but I really am curious about this statement. You gave a few examples of incorrect interpretations (You'll often here this interpreted as in - we need more quality time, I want more attention, you never compliment me, you never listen to me any more. ), what is the correct one? Because I do think my W felt this way, and I really don't know what the right response is to it.

 

Simply put, what exactly does one "do" when trying to build or enhance an emotional connection?

[Chica80]

Contrary to popular belief....especially here on LS. Most A are not about sex.

 

Research shows that those who study A, psychology etc state that it is not about sex.

 

Does it happen yes of course but for the most part it's not.

 

No man is going to say yes I'm having an A because I need that emotional connection. Especially not to his male friends.

I believe most men are not even in tune with their feeling in the first place. Like OP said it's not something that men are usually taught to do.

 

Speaking of my own experience. I used to think intimacy and closeness was obtained through sex. My AP used to joke I thought very much like a man when it came to sex. Because it was the only way I knew how to connect. But have since learned that's not so.

And really what I wanted was that bond that emotional connection. Although I wouldn't have been able to explain that or say that when it all started.

[Clockwatching]

To the first part, I have to agree with you, I assume that men have a completely different talk track with women, just like you should assume they have with other men. Which is authentic? I have no idea, perhaps neither?

 

What I can tell you, as a man, is that emotional needs for me rank very close to the bottom of things I want/need from a relationship. I simply don't have very much in the way of emotional needs, and those that I do have, are easily filled by my family and the limited sharing I do with my male friends. I'm not going to speak for every man, because, I'm pretty sure I'm different than many, but the way men talk to me rings as "authentic" because, when I'm talking to them, I'm not "hiding" my emotional responses, I simply don't have them or, if I do, I don't need to talk about them.

 

My argument, BTW, for the reason men are talking that way with their female friends is because they know it disarms women, and they are trying to sleep with them. Perhaps some day I'll post up the TXTs between my wife and AP, he said EXACTLY the kind of stuff you mentioned above. Was it because his wife wouldn't listen to him? I sincerely doubt it. It was because he knew that was a way to get my wife engaged/interested and that is the way that women talk to one another, so it feels "safe" (until it's not).

 

I wouldn't really know. I have no female friends, and wouldn't even consider trying to build a friendship with a woman; there's a few billion men out there who I won't have possible sexual tension with, I'd very much prefer to have friendships like that. It's just not worth the fallout, IMHO, sharing from an emotional level is not something I desire enough to seek out a female friend and deal with the possible consequences. Besides, I have my wife (or if I D, another woman I'm intimate with) who I can share all that stuff with if I really wanted to.

 

Now, granted, all men are not like me. I was raised in the "stiff upper lip" school of thought. I turned off my emotional responses early, and I've never really turned them back on except for my wife. But I think I'm more common than you think, and I know my friends, who seek out and engage in A's, are out there looking for women to build that connection with to get sex. Do they also want the EA? Who knows, perhaps. But absent some very strong evidence to the contrary, I'd assume that a man entering into an A is there for sex, just like I'd assume that a woman in the same situation is there for the emotional connection.

 

I think what you're talking about is very very common - when we do have to switch emotions off early in our lives, the only time they switch back on again is when the emotions overtake our control mechanisms and they must come out, and it often takes events external to us to allow this to happen.

 

That kind of emotional numbness is a defence - the absence of feeling is in itself a feeling, and I've found is that it's usually indicative of having to separate the emotional body from trauma/threat/disconnection of one kind or another - it's a fundamental denial of emotion in order to cope with circumstances that are surrounding a person that threatens their survival.

 

It's a perfectly intelligent and common way to react, and some people do manage to get through their entire lives doing this - it really depends on what journey you take and how many pressures you have that may or may not break that mechanism.

 

Underneath the absence of feeling there is usually a host of stuff going on, but the brain will generally keep away anything that's perceived as a threat to survival by hook or by crook, or in this case, by denial.

 

I think what needs to be understood is that this isn't something within conscious control when this happens - this is not something that people deliberately 'choose' to do. As humans we don't operate on an independently conscious 'thinking' level until we're about 8 years old, before then we are purely emotive and instinctual and we develop ways of coping and methods of finding love and acceptance purely by the method of learning what is good and what is bad, what makes us lovable, what makes us unlovable, what is safe and what is unsafe.

 

These instincts are buried deep in the unconscious and become a template that we live by, so we are literally not aware of what we're doing until something makes us aware by event or circumstance.

 

There's a really good analogy about binoculars that explains this - while you're looking through the binoculars you can only see the perspective of the binoculars, and not the binoculars themselves. In this way we only see our perspective, not the perspective of the perspective.

 

When we talk about emotional needs I think it needs to be understood that the emotional needs that may be being met may not actually be met by the affair partner themselves - for example, there are people out there who will have multiple one night stands rather than affairs. So, where's the emotional need if there's no feedback?

 

The way to get to the root is to access the feeling the person has when they're doing it - for some it may be that they feel powerful (so what they're lacking is a feeling of significance - to feel wanted and important), for others it may be the kick of doing something illicit (meaning they lack excitement and variety) - do you see that underneath the action, regardless of the emotional connection or lack thereof with the affair partner that the emotional need is there?

 

The need itself will ultimately dictate the situation and therefore the partner and situation that someone is involved with, for some men and women it will be purely one night stands, for others it will be an emotional connection and there are all sorts of flavours in between.

 

The methods of getting those needs met will also vary - for men who do engage in an EA to have a regular sex partner and are feigning the emotional connection will also have needs themselves that they are telegraphing purely from their need to lie. When they're essentially conning someone into this kind of a situation it may make them feel significant, in control, excited - these are still valid needs, although they've been gained in a machiavellian way.

 

 

So I'm definitely not disagreeing with you that there are men that do this, but I would say that this is very much telegraphing a need, not denying it.

 

 

I would also say that there are men who come on this forum to cement the idea that it was just sex and the partner was using their wife purely for sexual ends, and I would suggest that this is an easier thought for most people that an emotional connection was involved – it is after all far less threatening to a marriage than falling in love. Just a thought and not one that I intend to hurt with in any way, but it may be worth looking at what it would mean for you, or for anyone else reading this, if there was an emotional attachment beyond the physical act of sex.

 

 

For me, it would make me curious about what that emotional need was and how it can be met - it's really an opportunity to open a dialogue and deepen the connection with your partner, another layer of the onion.

[Overtaxed]

I would also say that there are men who come on this forum to cement the idea that it was just sex and the partner was using their wife purely for sexual ends, and I would suggest that this is an easier thought for most people that an emotional connection was involved – it is after all far less threatening to a marriage than falling in love. Just a thought and not one that I intend to hurt with in any way, but it may be worth looking at what it would mean for you, or for anyone else reading this, if there was an emotional attachment beyond the physical act of sex.

 

 

For me, it would make me curious about what that emotional need was and how it can be met - it's really an opportunity to open a dialogue and deepen the connection with your partner, another layer of the onion.

 

 

Very interesting post, thank you.

 

To the quoted above, in my case there's no denying the emotional component of the A from my wife's side. She did it for that emotional connection. As to the AP, I really could care less why he did it, but I suspect it was for sex. But, it really doesn't matter to me; it's no easier or harder to think he was in love with my W. I am sure, however, that it matters to his W, and I know he told her it was "for sex" (we talk). Standard script, W says emotions, man says sex because both are easier on the BS. In my case, it's probably true.

[Clockwatching]

Sorry to post back to back, but I really am curious about this statement. You gave a few examples of incorrect interpretations (You'll often here this interpreted as in - we need more quality time, I want more attention, you never compliment me, you never listen to me any more. ), what is the correct one? Because I do think my W felt this way, and I really don't know what the right response is to it.

 

Simply put, what exactly does one "do" when trying to build or enhance an emotional connection?

 

 

Hi overtaxed,

 

 

Oh no please don't be sorry – this conversation is brilliant and really interesting so a really big thank you, it's really making me and everyone think (I think), and hopefully, feel a little bit.

 

 

It's a really good question because it's something that's not explored or explained enough.

 

 

The answer is that none of those statements are correct – it's the message underneath the words that needs to be heard. What every statement has in common is the request for your attention – not just once, but to be aware of your partner on a feeling level. This is really a lovely request – it shows that your partner still wants to be with you, they are still committed to you and they're trying to ask for what they want.

 

 

For example, remember when you first met and you were pursuing her and when you had conversations your focus was on her, how she was feeling and what she was thinking, how you were feeling with her and what you were thinking about when you were with her? That is presence.

 

 

Presence is your undivided focus and attention towards someone on an emotional and mental level, and it can get so close as to when you're with someone that you can be looking into someone's eyes and not have to say a word? That's the feeling level, that's presence.

 

 

The issue that a lot of men have, is that once the deal's done, and you're together and your lady has given themselves to you, that the contract is signed and the deal is done, men move onto building, supporting and 'doing' things to be the provider for their family, because that's what is done in our society. There is, in essence absolutely no problem with this and it's a perfectly beautiful way to show your love for someone – the issue is when presence is then taken away as your lady will no longer feel loved because she will not feel you with her on that crucial emotional level and problems will inevitably occur.

 

 

To emotionally connect with someone you need to firstly understand how you feel and there are reasons for this.

 

 

For those of us who have grown up in societies that are emotionally repressed we need to tap into our emotions to connect with others because other's emotions are felt within us. Emotions are felt as sensations in the body and you can start by doing a body scan, from your head to your toes feeling each sensation and trying to name anything that you do feel.

 

 

Examples of this would be a quickening of the heart, a heavy feeling on the chest, tingling in the lower back – these could mean excitement, anxiety, nervousness – once you feel something, stick with it. Does it feel hot or cold, heavy or light, does it expand or contract, can you name it? This is a really good exercise with starting to get back in touch with your emotions.

 

 

You may find when you first do this that you get distracted easily, bored, numb – these are all defence mechanisms which are perfectly fine and have protected you for years, if they arise, just stay with them. Often giving those emotions themselves undivided attention will help the process.

 

 

A good thing to note for those who operate on a primarily mental level, is when you're doing this with yourself keep your gaze down rather than up – looking up means that you're focussing on your mental faculties rather than your heart, gazing down will help your focus.

 

 

You can then extend this with your partner – when you're with them do a body scan and see how you feel around them, what are you feeling towards them? Can you describe it?

 

 

By you doing this, you are giving them emotional presence, and it will be felt by your partner.

 

 

If you would like to try and feel your partner on an emotional level you can do this whilst talking or silent, maintain eye contact and reach again into your body for sensation and see how you feel – can you describe it?

 

 

When you're ready extend this outward to your partner and their heart space – try to 'feel' them emotionally. How do you feel? Can you describe it? Is it warm, cold, loving, distant? This is a very emotive exercise, so if you haven't been intimate for a while, it's a good call.

 

 

If you can do the above you'll be amazed at what it will do to encourage emotional connection with your wife, and it should mean a very much happier household.

 

 

I hope this has helped, I know I've written a lot but it's quite a big subject.

[Clockwatching]

Very interesting post, thank you.

 

To the quoted above, in my case there's no denying the emotional component of the A from my wife's side. She did it for that emotional connection. As to the AP, I really could care less why he did it, but I suspect it was for sex. But, it really doesn't matter to me; it's no easier or harder to think he was in love with my W. I am sure, however, that it matters to his W, and I know he told her it was "for sex" (we talk). Standard script, W says emotions, man says sex because both are easier on the BS. In my case, it's probably true.

 

I have a lot of respect for your honesty and open mindedness - whatever the truth is I don't think really matters, we all work with what we've got from where we are and as long as you have honesty and an open mindedness as starters for one, it's a good hand to play.

[S2B]

This is an interesting thread... as I have numbed myself after my 23 year marriage ended. My identity was majorly tied to my marriage, my family and my image...

 

And then I learned...I learned to depend ONLY on me! I learned about me...I learned to be authentic, to have a voice and speak my truth.

 

My world changed when my trauma counselor asked me "what do you want from a man?...and how can YOU get THAT from YOURSELF?" Whoa!!! I was stunned... I'd been expecting men to validate me my entire life... is been seeking love from them instead of giving love to myself.

 

 

And my whole world has changed! Never, ever again will I ALLOW that shift in power/control again.

 

If I expect to be happy then I can provide that FOR MYSELF!

 

What new things are you doing now to make sure you are happy?

[Clockwatching]

This is an interesting thread... as I have numbed myself after my 23 year marriage ended. My identity was majorly tied to my marriage, my family and my image...

 

And then I learned...I learned to depend ONLY on me! I learned about me...I learned to be authentic, to have a voice and speak my truth.

 

My world changed when my trauma counselor asked me "what do you want from a man?...and how can YOU get THAT from YOURSELF?" Whoa!!! I was stunned... I'd been expecting men to validate me my entire life... is been seeking love from them instead of giving love to myself.

 

 

And my whole world has changed! Never, ever again will I ALLOW that shift in power/control again.

 

If I expect to be happy then I can provide that FOR MYSELF!

 

What new things are you doing now to make sure you are happy?

 

Haha welcome to the world outside the matrix eh? I'm very happy for you - it is such a revelation when you realise what you never realised isn't it?

 

I went one step beyond men and I have been doing it for my entire life due to my childhood and it extended to everyone around me, never mind men - I have quite a journey ahead of me!

 

I'm not really in the camp that we can ever be totally self reliant - we're a social species and have a need to belong and be validated and be seen for who we are and I don't think there's anything wrong with that - but only and solely, if we don't change who we are, repress ourselves and stuff our emotions in order to control people around us, be accepted, or to receive love.

 

I definitely agree that we need to love ourselves and accept ourselves fully before we can ever give that authentic love that doesn't require specific outcomes, to other people - that way, we're not dependent on what we're getting, in order to give.

 

I do believe that we're headed towards unconditional love towards ourselves and other people, but we have a way to go before we can get there.

 

What am I doing to make myself happy? In all honesty I'm still in the 'coming to terms' stages of things but I'm discovering things as I go - I've discovered that my real passion is spirituality and psychology as well as health, and I have enrolled on a course next year to change career, and I'm considering moving. In the day to day, I'm taking baby steps as I'm still hampered by my emotions quite a bit but I'm learning.

 

How about you?

[S2B]

Haha welcome to the world outside the matrix eh? I'm very happy for you - it is such a revelation when you realise what you never realised isn't it?

 

I went one step beyond men and I have been doing it for my entire life due to my childhood and it extended to everyone around me, never mind men - I have quite a journey ahead of me!

 

I'm not really in the camp that we can ever be totally self reliant - we're a social species and have a need to belong and be validated and be seen for who we are and I don't think there's anything wrong with that - but only and solely, if we don't change who we are, repress ourselves and stuff our emotions in order to control people around us, be accepted, or to receive love.

 

I definitely agree that we need to love ourselves and accept ourselves fully before we can ever give that authentic love that doesn't require specific outcomes, to other people - that way, we're not dependent on what we're getting, in order to give.

 

I do believe that we're headed towards unconditional love towards ourselves and other people, but we have a way to go before we can get there.

 

What am I doing to make myself happy? In all honesty I'm still in the 'coming to terms' stages of things but I'm discovering things as I go - I've discovered that my real passion is spirituality and psychology as well as health, and I have enrolled on a course next year to change career, and I'm considering moving. In the day to day, I'm taking baby steps as I'm still hampered by my emotions quite a bit but I'm learning.

 

How about you?

 

 

Those are great changes - especially school - education is one thing that can never be taken away from you.

 

 

Well, for me, I've been at this discovery about ten years now - so my ideas about self reliance have evolved knowing that my "perception" of others is an illusion or better yet "temporary thoughts about how someone acts/feels".

 

Since I can't rely on an illusion or a temporary feeling I really needed to know only how I feel.

 

 

I am no longer co dependent. I base decisions on evidence - solid evidence (not "feelings") - and I know firmly what MY healthy boundary looks like - for me.

 

I expanded my creative outlets (they keep me happy and healthy and sane) and I know how to be a happy gal all on my own! When I'm interested in a man I know full well I'm offering my happpy self to a potential relationship. What he may offer comes with the evidence he presents. Ahaha!

 

In any event, each day I am truly happy...that's the gift I give myself. It's not dependent on things or other people. It took a long haul to get to this place of balance for me - but I'm quite enjoying it!