constant fighting with girlfriend after moving in -- controlling/manipulation

[16run17]

Sorry if this post is ****ty, I typed most of this post on my phone. Also sorry about the wall of text.

 

 

Over a month ago I moved into a new apartment and my girlfriend moved in with me. Previously we had separate places but I was spending 5-7 nights at her place for the last 3 months and the ones I didn't she spent at mine.

 

 

The week before we moved in we had a huge fight about how I wasn't being reassuring enough in wanting to move in with her but I assured her I wanted to, that's why I had found a new place and started making all the arrangements like setting up the utilities and packing things etc.

The first week after moving was crunch time at work and I was working 10-12 hour shifts so I didn't do a great job of coming back and making a home. We agreed not to unpack all of our clothes until we got a dresser, but before that could happen things blew up and we had a huge fight about how she felt I was just waiting to leave by not unpacking.

 

 

A week later we were supposed to see a movie and I wasn't excited about it but I knew she was so I still made all the plans and stuff and then accidentally said I didn't want to go and ruined it all. But apparently she feels like she can't invite me to anything because even if I agree to go she's guilty because I'm not excited about it and it turned into another big fight about how she deserves someone who is excited about the art museum and dancing etc ande told me moving in was a huge mistake. I thought we talked about it an everything was ok for a while then she just completely shut down and told me she was going to bed and wouldn't talk to me anymore. The she got up and started getting ready, and wouldn't talk to me until telling me she was leaving to get breakfast then meet her mom for lunch. I waiting for 20 minutes and figured she wasn't coming back to I ran to pick up my backpack with my retainer from work but on the way she called and was pissed because she had come back and I was gone. She just called me back again and was and told me that it wasn't fair when she had come back that I wasn't there and that she's packing up and moving out because she's 20 and should be having fun and not be miserable with me because I'm just being a huge ass hole and I never do anything wrong etc. I miss a call because I was in the elevator at work and she left me a voicemail calling me an ass hole and screamed at me for not answering my phone. I just called her back and she asked me to come back so we could talk but said she was still packing. We made up and thing were ok for a whole week.

 

 

The weekend after that I bought her surprise tickets to see the movie Saturday night and bought snacks etc and surprised her with it. We spent most of Saturday cuddling in bed and I was a little frustrated because we had talked about the errands I needed to do and I hadn't done them at 5 o'clock when I realized how late it was. Things blew up again and she was pissed because she felt like all of that dumb stuff was unimportant etc and that I was saying I had wasted my day with her. Again she's screaming at me that I'm an ******* etc and that I don't appreciate her time and we end up up fighting pretty late again (2-3ish). In the morning she wakes up and says she's breaking up with me and keeps calling her mom to ask if she can to stay with her parents but she never picks up. She keeps telling me I'm ty and deserve to be alone etc I don't deserve her or appreciate her etc and so on. By the end I'm laying on the bed sobbing and she's packing but decides not to leave and starts apologizing and we make up again.

 

 

Then on Thursday after I suggested going to a couples educational course for building a stronger relationship that's meant for newly Weds but She thought I was saying she needed therapy and thought I was giving up on us etc And said something to the effect that she's strong and if there was a problem she would figure it out on her own because therapy is for weak people etc. This crushed me because I have been doing CBT for OCD for almost a year now, which she knows. I had to work on Thursday and Thursday night I had a sleep study so I didn't go home that night but was still feeling down about what she had said. we talked about it last night and things were ok then today she gave me a hickey on my arm and I said I didn't like it and she shut down and then got upset saying I have double standards about affection because I blow on her face and lick her sometimes etc and then she wouldn't talk to me and kept saying everything is fine and she's not upset etc and told me to just go run my errands but she pulled away when I tried to hug her and kiss her forehead. When I came back she kept saying everything was fine but clearly didn't want to talk and sat on her computer in the other room. After a few minutes she comes and tells me she's leaving to go see a movie by herself and angrily tells me to have a good night. If I had done the same I know she would have gone ballistic but I told her to drive safe and enjoy her time. She comes back after about 15 minutes and tells me she's upset but doesn't even want to talk to me because I'm just going to attack her etc. We end up having another fight about how unappreciated she feels and how unimportant I make her feel, etc. I end up having an OCD spike and kind of shut down and again end up sobbing. We made up but I was still feeling hurt and down and then she gets upset with me for not immediately feeling better and we end up talking til around 2 or so and I thought things were resolved and I was falling asleep as we were talking so we went to bed. Sunday morning I wake up and she's upset that I wasn't able to be reassuring enough after the fight and she's upset that I went to sleep when things weren't 100% resolved. We end up having another argument and I tell her that I don't feel like she respects my time when she assumes and expects me to spend certain times with her without coordinating them with me first.

 

Then Sunday night she shuts down on me and tells me she's having a hard time letting go of things, which is frustrating given her expectation that I do so immediately. Monday morning she is pissed again but doesn't want to talk and leaves for class but comes back after a few minutes and we start arguing. She screams at me and throws her keys. She feels like she can't ask for time with me because I told her that she doesn't respect my time the argument continues and I end up feeling hopeless and sobbing again. We spent so long arguing that I ended up calling in sick to work

 

This week I had a pretty bad cold and was really out of it starting on Monday. I had a work trip starting Thursday morning so I asked if we could move date night to wednesday night instead. Wednesday I was feeling especially ill at work and had an incredibly hard time focusing but we had a date night that night so I tried to rally. I tried to surprise her by taking her to the movie again but she gets upset and tells me that I don't listen and that I shouldn't take her to the movie because I already ruined it for her. We go to dinner and I wasn't feeling well so I was having a hard time holding up my end of the conversation so we talked about picking up a redbox on the way home. We get to redbox and I ask what movie we should get and she tells me to pick whatever so I asked her if a movie was ok and she said sure. When we get home I ask if I can pack really quickly before we start the movie and she says sure, so I pack and then try to start the movie but was having problems getting it to play correctly. She kept telling me things to try but she was on her phone playing a game and didn't see that I had already tried the things she was suggesting so she got upset when I told her so. When I finally get the movie to start she shuts down and tells me she's just going to bed.

 

She accuses me of yelling at her and then screams at me for being a jerk because we had apparently talked about getting another movie previously, even though she didn't remind me when I got there. She was also mad at me for being sick and feeling distant. I was frustrated because I didn't feel in the wrong for either of those things but I did apologize for having forgotten that we were going to get a different movie.

 

Thursday she's still mad but insists on driving me to the airport. I kept trying to talk to her but she would only give me one word answers so I stopped. She asked me if everything was ok and I said yes, but I said that it seems like she was upset. She's obviously upset so I keep asking what's wrong and she snaps at me and says nothing is, then accuses me of being upset with her.

 

I was in scheduled presentations throughout most of the day so I didn't text her except for every few hours to check in. I tried to call her before dinner but she didn't answer and I left her a VM. During dinner she texts me saying she wants to talk to catch up, then texts me nevermind before I get a chance to respond. I text her back and try to call before heading to the scheduled after dinner social but again she doesn't respond. She calls me a couple times while I'm at the social but I didn't want to be rude and take her calls during the event. Afterwards I call her back and she was upset that we hadn't resolved the night before (I think that means I hadn't apologized for everything) and accused me of yelling at her and avoiding her because I was busy with work and tells me she's staying with her parents for a while.

 

Every time we fight she tells me how unimportant and unappreciated she feels, which is frustrating because I go out of my way to do things to show my appreciation like picking up some of her chores, surprising her with dinner when she gets home, occasionally picking up flowers, surprising her with tickets etc. And she gets upset when I spend time away, we had a huge fight because I stopped at the gym before coming home when we had dinner plans which I was on time to. She says that even though I'm on time I'm choosing to be away from her because I spent the extra 40 minutes at the gym or running errands etc. She constantly tells me she doesn't need me but then makes it seem like I'm the sole keeper of her happiness. The frequency of our fighting has scared me but she keeps telling me that fighting is normal and part of any healthy relationship and says it isn't fair for me to be frustrated and scared about it.

 

Please help me approach this constructively. After writing it all out I feel very hopeless and I feel crazy now too. I do love her but I also feel like she is being manipulative and emotionally abusive to me.

 

How can I approach the situation constructively? Am I crazy for putting up with this? How do I break the cycle?

Edited April 21, 2017 by 16run17

[Nothingtolose]

Whoa. I know I'm only reading your side of the story, but assuming you told the whole truth, this girl sounds like a real nightmare. I can be insecure and sometimes demanding of my partner's attention, but that is just insane. I got tired just reading about her rants.

 

She sounds extremely spoiled, and I think if you stay with her you're going to end up walking on eggshells constantly trying to please her. However, since she's saying she feels unappreciated when you're going out of your way to do things for her, perhaps you two have different love languages: Discover Your Love Language - The 5 Love Languages®

 

Worth giving it a try and taking the test with her to find out what hers is, if you are willing to try and work on things. And yes, it is true that couples fight, but it's not normal to fight that much that early on - you just moved in together, and usually those are exciting times for a couple.

[darkmoon]

how many "huge fights" had she had before you with exes? she seems to like them on some level

 

half-way thru your post, I was like, okay - when is the next "huge fight"...

 

unless you are keen on drama, move on, try being with somebody less quarrelsome, and keener on civilised compromises, not huge fights

[somanymistakes]

Moving can be extremely stressful, especially if you're working a lot on top of that. So a little bit of friction when she's feeling insecure and you're super-busy wouldn't be surprising.

 

However, the way you depict it sounds too volatile to be normal.

 

You're both young, and she's not necessarily being manipulative on purpose - she may not understand her own emotions very well right now.

 

Are you friendly with her parents at all? Right now I think what she needs most is someone in authority to sit her down and order her to be calm and think things through more slowly. You can't really be that for her, it would set up a bad dynamic. There are things you could try if she WANTS to fix stuff and is willing to work with you towards a solution, but if she's flying off the handle all over the place, you can't force her to take part in a relationship strategy session, she'll see it as an insult.

[NTV]

Yeah moving in with her sounds like a mistake. Next time she goes off on you leave and don't do whatever it Is she's demanding. By doing it you show her she can get what she wants that way..... effectively training her to do it more often.

[Downtown]

16run17, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational anger, controlling behavior, easily triggered temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your GF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

 

We had a huge fight about how she felt I was just waiting to leave by not unpacking.

If she is a BPDer (i.e., exhibits strong and persistent BPD symptoms), she has a great fear of abandonment. Indeed, the fear is so great that a BPDer will see "abandonment threats" in ordinary, everyday events. My BPDer exW, for example, felt threatened by abandonment whenever I walked a few steps in front of her on a narrow sidewalk -- and whenever she caught me looking at another woman for a second instead of a half-second.

 

She claimed... I never do anything right.

This exaggerated claim arises from "black-white thinking," which usually is evident in the frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "You NEVER..." and "You ALWAYS...." If your GF is a BPDer, she is too emotionally immature to be able to handle strong mixed feelings, ambiguities, uncertainties, and other gray areas of interpersonal relationships. Hence, like a young child, she will categorize everyone close to her as "all good" (i.e., "white" or "with me") or "all bad" (i.e., "black" or "against me"). And she will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or action.

 

She wakes up and says she's breaking up with me... but decides not to leave and starts apologizing and we make up again.... she wakes up and says she's breaking up with me.... We made up and thing were ok for a whole week.

This repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back is one of the hallmarks of a BPDer relationship. It occurs because a BPDer's two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) lie at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means that it is impossible for you to back away from triggering one of her fears without starting to trigger the other fear.

 

As you draw close to assure her of your love, for example, you will trigger a BPDer's engulfment fear because, although BPDers crave intimacy, they cannot tolerate it for very long. Due to a BPDer's fragile, weak sense of self identity, she will quickly feel like you're trying to control her -- and she will get the scary feeling of being suffocated or engulfed. She therefore will create a fight -- over absolutely nothing -- to push you away. Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you unavoidably will start triggering her abandonment fear. Hence, if your exGF is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits), you were always in a lose/lose situation. You lose no matter what you do.

 

Due to this push-away and pull-back cycle, BPDer relationships are notorious for having numerous breakups. A BPDfamily survey of about 460 such relationships found that nearly a fourth of them (23%) went through 10 or more complete breakup/makeup cycles BEFORE finally ending for good. About 40% of the BPDer relationships experienced at least six breakup/makeup cycles before eventually ending. And 73% had three or more breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. See "Results" at BPDfamily Breakup/Makeup Poll.

 

I end up having an OCD spike and kind of shut down and again end up sobbing.

If you really have been living with a BPDer for a month, consider yourself lucky that you are only experiencing "an OCD spike." Most abused partners of BPDers quickly start to feel like they may be going crazy. Because BPDers typically are convinced that the absurd allegations coming out of their mouths are absolutely true -- they generally have a greater "crazy-making" effect than can ever be achieved by narcissists or sociopaths.

 

This is why that, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. And this is largely why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning.

 

Every time we fight she tells me how unimportant and unappreciated she feels, which is frustrating because I go out of my way to do things to show my appreciation.

The human condition is that, whenever we experience intense feelings, our perceptions of other peoples' intentions and motivations becomes very distorted. This distortion is so obvious that, by the time we are in high school, nearly all of us know that we cannot trust our own judgment when we are experiencing intense feelings. This is why, when we are very angry, we try hard to keep our mouths shut and our fingers off the keys. And this is why, when we are very infatuated, we try hard to wait two years before buying the ring.

 

Well, BPDers are like that too -- only much more so. Because BPDers are unable to regulate their emotions, they experience far more intense feelings -- and do so far more frequently. The result is that a BPDer frequently gets very distorted perceptions of your motivations and intentions. And because her feelings are so very intense, she is absolutely convinced that her distorted perception MUST be true.

 

The frequency of our fighting has scared me....

I agree with NothingtoLose that you must feel like you're "walking on eggshells constantly." That is exactly how most abused partners feel who are living with BPDers. This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book (targeted to those abused partners) is titled, Stop Walking on Eggshells.

 

She constantly tells me she doesn't need me but then makes it seem like I'm the sole keeper of her happiness.

BPDers will flip back and forth between devaluing you (claiming she doesn't you) and adoring you (claiming you are "the sole keeper of her happiness"). This is why the #2 best-selling BPD book is titled, I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!

 

I also feel like she is being manipulative and emotionally abusive to me.

Because of their fears, BPDers will try to control most aspects of your private life and the way you spend time. Although they sometimes try to be manipulative, they are not very good at it. You usually will see the manipulation coming from a mile away. To be successful, manipulation requires careful planning and flawless execution. BPDers, however, are far too impulsive and reactive (to how they feel at this very moment) to execute their plans properly. Instead, they tend to shoot from the hip.

 

How can I approach the situation constructively?

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your GF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as "constant mood swings," verbal abuse, and icy withdrawal.

 

Of course, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your GF's issues. Although the symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid remaining in this toxic relationship and avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her.

 

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells and raises questions, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, 16run17.

[16run17]

Whoa. I know I'm only reading your side of the story, but assuming you told the whole truth, this girl sounds like a real nightmare. I can be insecure and sometimes demanding of my partner's attention, but that is just insane. I got tired just reading about her rants.

 

She sounds extremely spoiled, and I think if you stay with her you're going to end up walking on eggshells constantly trying to please her. However, since she's saying she feels unappreciated when you're going out of your way to do things for her, perhaps you two have different love languages: Discover Your Love Language - The 5 Love Languages®

 

Worth giving it a try and taking the test with her to find out what hers is, if you are willing to try and work on things. And yes, it is true that couples fight, but it's not normal to fight that much that early on - you just moved in together, and usually those are exciting times for a couple.

 

I'm not claiming to be a total saint here either because I have yelled back when she is shouting in my face but I know it's not always a true accusation.

 

 

I'm pretty sure her love language is Words of affirmation, because she would much rather have me tell her how important she is to me than have me pick up her chores and surprise her.

 

We had a fight the week we moved in because I called her after work while I was on the way to the gym. Instead of telling me she wanted my help decorating she said ok enjoy and told me that she was watching TV to relax. Then when I got home she was pissed that I hadn't chosen to go home and help her and was pissed because I didn't immediately thank her for putting up all of the photos and art that we had, and she ripped it off of the walls during the duration of the fight that followed.

 

Moving in has been stressful and I do feel like I am walking on eggshells. We had a fight because I didn't unpack because of the dresser, then I bought a dresser and we had another fight because it wasn't big enough.

 

A different night we had another fight because she asked for my HBO account and I couldn't remember the password but she thought I was just avoiding giving it to her. I said that I had to reset it first but I would let her know and made a joke about her paying the bill and she called me an ******* and said I was being mean about it and we had another fight.

[16run17]

how many "huge fights" had she had before you with exes? she seems to like them on some level

 

half-way thru your post, I was like, okay - when is the next "huge fight"...

 

unless you are keen on drama, move on, try being with somebody less quarrelsome, and keener on civilised compromises, not huge fights

 

She claims to have never fought like this before. She says she doesn't like being upset with me and says that she hasn't ever screamed at anyone else before but basically I'm different because I don't get it

[16run17]

Moving can be extremely stressful, especially if you're working a lot on top of that. So a little bit of friction when she's feeling insecure and you're super-busy wouldn't be surprising.

 

However, the way you depict it sounds too volatile to be normal.

 

You're both young, and she's not necessarily being manipulative on purpose - she may not understand her own emotions very well right now.

 

Are you friendly with her parents at all? Right now I think what she needs most is someone in authority to sit her down and order her to be calm and think things through more slowly. You can't really be that for her, it would set up a bad dynamic. There are things you could try if she WANTS to fix stuff and is willing to work with you towards a solution, but if she's flying off the handle all over the place, you can't force her to take part in a relationship strategy session, she'll see it as an insult.

 

I am pretty friendly with her parents but I don't really consider that an option. Her parents are together but her dad has had a pretty passive role and her mom is pretty intense and I know that she would lie to her parents about things.

 

 

She says she wants to work on things, but only between us. We have agreed on things like taking pauses in the fights etc that have been helpful but I'm still concerned about the way we fight. Even if she stops herself before calling me an ******* or a jerk I know that's her intention and it still hurts

[16run17]

Yeah moving in with her sounds like a mistake. Next time she goes off on you leave and don't do whatever it Is she's demanding. By doing it you show her she can get what she wants that way..... effectively training her to do it more often.

 

Yeah, I have come to realize that it's not always my fault even if she makes it seem that way and demands an apology

[16run17]

Today I was in work sanctioned events most of the day so I texted her intermittently and she texted me back but was pretty cold. I tried to call her when I had a break but she never answered so I left her a VM. Then in the evening she texted me and was pretty sweet again out of the blue. I had a 15 minute break so I called her to say hi and she was talkative but told me she was upset but letting go. I had to go back to the event but I texted her again between that event and sent a snapchat before going to another social event. I didn't feel like calling her back again because we had already caught up and I felt like she was fishing for an apology the last time I had talked to her. I know she opened the snapchat but never responded to either and ultimately sent me another cold text saying she was going to bed

[wing81]

Run, if you want to see what the future holds please read some of my posts. It sounds like she is testing boundaries and seeing what she can get away with. Her wanting to talk on her time knowing you arent available because of work is her trying to get focus solely on her and to drop anything to give her attention. Correct me if I am wrong but this primarily started once you started the process of moving in together. Are there other changes you have noticed?

 

From just your post i can see this going two ways. One, you fear upsetting her and do what you can to appease her until you have nothing left to give. You will become a shell of yourself and just going through the motions and not making her happy or unable to make yourself happy. Second is that you will stand your ground and be in constant conflict with her finding harsher ways of "punishing" you. At some point you will give her the reaction she wants that allows her to be the victim.

 

Looking back now i see many signs that seemed weird at the time are part of a larger picture. If you want to make this work both of you will need to be in therapy. If for nothing else than to learn how to protect yourself. My guess is she will refuse which could show you her dedication to this relationship. You are not heavily invested and may want to consider all of your options.

[16run17]

Run, if you want to see what the future holds please read some of my posts. It sounds like she is testing boundaries and seeing what she can get away with. Her wanting to talk on her time knowing you arent available because of work is her trying to get focus solely on her and to drop anything to give her attention. Correct me if I am wrong but this primarily started once you started the process of moving in together. Are there other changes you have noticed?

 

From just your post i can see this going two ways. One, you fear upsetting her and do what you can to appease her until you have nothing left to give. You will become a shell of yourself and just going through the motions and not making her happy or unable to make yourself happy. Second is that you will stand your ground and be in constant conflict with her finding harsher ways of "punishing" you. At some point you will give her the reaction she wants that allows her to be the victim.

 

Looking back now i see many signs that seemed weird at the time are part of a larger picture. If you want to make this work both of you will need to be in therapy. If for nothing else than to learn how to protect yourself. My guess is she will refuse which could show you her dedication to this relationship. You are not heavily invested and may want to consider all of your options.

 

Yes, there are other changes and that expectation of availability is there in person too. I used to go to the gym 3-5x a week for about an hour each time and it was never an issue, even if I went before seeing her. Now I feel like I have to ask for her permission to go and I end up spending less time so she doesn't get upset with me for getting home too late. This has carried over into free time where I feel obligated to be available to spend time with her when she is home even if she is busy doing homework. I've basically stopped pursuing my hobbies because it seems like it isn't OK and has been the cause of other fights. She tells me she wants me to be able to ask for time for myself, but I feel like I shouldn't have to ask for my time and when I do she generally gets upset and takes it as trying to avoid her, like in the errands example. I have almost stopped spending time with friends and family except for the times when they invite me because it seems like if I actively make plans she'll take it as avoiding her.

 

I feel like I have a lot less privacy because If I'm around she's constantly asking what I'm doing etc and if I get up to go to the other room she'll ask why and sometimes gets upset because she takes it as not wanting to spend time with her if we were both in bed or on the couch. If I'm texting friends she wants to know who I'm texting and what we're talking about, which has kept me from keeping up with some of my closest friends who I text everyday because I feel pressure from her not to text them.

 

I do feel like I am going through a lot of motions and steps to avoid upsetting her and like you mentioned I feel like it has been at the expense of myself like cutting down on time with my hobbies and other relationships. Ironically she always says that I make her so happy, only to have her turn around and throw a bunch of things in my face saying I make her miserable when we fight.

 

My therapist has been helping me approach it from an angle where I don't necessarily apologize if I don't think I was wrong, but say that I may have done something that could have been upsetting and apologize that it feels that way while explaining my intentions. I feel like it doesn't work because she gets upset that I don't directly apologize for some of those things.

 

 

Another thing that has been weighing on me is that she has told her parents about my financial situation (paying off some loans) without asking me first.

[darkmoon]

She claims to have never fought like this before. She says she doesn't like being upset with me and says that she hasn't ever screamed at anyone else before but basically I'm different because I don't get it

 

I think she is editing her biography - ok, ppl bull**** to look good - BUT - then she dominates you again by saying you "don't get it" as if there is an "it" to get and you are no good bla bla

 

what is this "it"? please define "it" ask her to srsly

Edited April 22, 2017 by darkmoon

[anduina]

16run17, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational anger, controlling behavior, easily triggered temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your GF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it.

BPD was my first thought too considering how extreme her behaviors.

 

You must really love her 16run17 because no one should have to put up with that amount of disrespect. If you're the only name on the lease, you should evict her.

[Downtown]

I am going through a lot of motions and steps to avoid upsetting her.

16run17, if your GF is a BPDer -- as I described above in post #6 -- it is IMPOSSIBLE "to avoid upsetting her." Because a BPDer's two fears (abandonment and engulfment) lie at opposite ends of the same spectrum, any attempt you make to draw away from triggering one fear means you must draw closer to triggering the other fear at the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

Moreover, a BPDer has a stunted emotional development that is frozen at the level of a four year old. This means that, if your GF is a BPDer, she never had the opportunity in early childhood to develop the emotional skills needed to handle mature adult relationships. Instead, she is fully reliant on the primitive ego defenses you see in every four-year old child: denial, projection, black-white thinking, magical thinking, cold sulking, and temper tantrums.

 

It also means she never had an opportunity to develop an integrated sense of self identity. That is, she never learned to think of herself -- or other people -- as essentially good people who occasionally exhibit bad behavior. Instead, she will categorize everyone close to her -- as well as herself -- as "all good" or "all bad." This is done because a BPDer is too immature to handle experiencing strong conflicting feelings about herself and other people. She also will be extremely uncomfortable in trying to handle ambiguities, uncertainties, and the other gray areas of interpersonal relationships. She therefore simplifies her thinking by perceiving of all loved ones and close friends -- and herself -- as white (all good) or black (all bad). And she will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other, in just ten seconds, based on a minor comment or action. This is why, if she's a BPDer, you will often find yourself walking on eggshells around her to avoid triggering her anger.

 

Moreover, this immaturity is why a BPDer has a weak and fragile sense of who she is. To the extent a BPDer has any lasting, persistent sense of identity at all, it is the false self identity of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." As Wing explained so well (post #12), "At some point you will give her the reaction she wants that allows her to be the victim."

 

The result -- if you are dating a BPDer -- is that you will be allowed to remain in this toxic relationship only as long as you continue to play one of two roles, both of which "confirm" that she is "The Victim." One role, which you played for several months during her infatuation period, is that of "The Rescuer." As long as she believes you are rescuing her from unhappiness, the implication is that she must be "The Victim" or you wouldn't be trying so hard to save her.

 

As soon as her infatuation period starts to fade, however, she will stare perceiving you as "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of her unhappiness and every misfortune to befall her. Either way -- as rescuer or perpetrator -- you fulfill her powerful need to think of herself as "The Victim."

 

I feel like I shouldn't have to ask for my time and when I do she generally gets upset and takes it as trying to avoid her, like in the errands example.

As I noted earlier in post 6, a BPDer has such a strong abandonment fear that she will mistakenly see abandonment threats in common everyday actions. Moreover, because a BPDer has such a fragile self identity, she needs to have a stable partner around at all times to provide that missing self identity. This is why BPDers HATE to be alone by themselves.

 

Ironically she always says that I make her so happy, only to have her turn around and throw a bunch of things in my face saying I make her miserable when we fight.

This flipping back and forth between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you) is an immature behavior that BPDers are notorious for doing. Like young children, they will perceive of you as "all good" for a while and then flip in seconds to perceiving of you as "all bad." When you eventually have very young children, you will find that your young daughter will adore Daddy while he's bringing out the toys -- but will instantly flip to hating Daddy when he takes one toy away. This is how all human beings behave until they have an opportunity to learn more mature emotional skills.

 

My therapist has been helping me approach it from an angle where I don't necessarily apologize if I don't think I was wrong, but say that I may have done something that could have been upsetting and apologize that it feels that way while explaining my intentions.

Explaining your intentions can work wonders with a mature woman who has only mild BPD traits. If her BPD traits are strong, however, all the explanation in the world won't make a dent in her behaviors. Her feelings are so intense that they distort her perceptions of your intentions and motivations. The result is that she simply will not believe your explanation and will refuse to trust you.

 

I feel like it doesn't work because she gets upset that I don't directly apologize for some of those things.

If she is a BPDer, NOTHING will work. You cannot develop a husband/wife relationship with someone so immature that she is only capable of handling a parent/child relationship.

[16run17]

16run17, if your GF is a BPDer -- as I described above in post #6 -- it is IMPOSSIBLE "to avoid upsetting her." Because a BPDer's two fears (abandonment and engulfment) lie at opposite ends of the same spectrum, any attempt you make to draw away from triggering one fear means you must draw closer to triggering the other fear at the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

Moreover, a BPDer has a stunted emotional development that is frozen at the level of a four year old. This means that, if your GF is a BPDer, she never had the opportunity in early childhood to develop the emotional skills needed to handle mature adult relationships. Instead, she is fully reliant on the primitive ego defenses you see in every four-year old child: denial, projection, black-white thinking, magical thinking, cold sulking, and temper tantrums.

 

It also means she never had an opportunity to develop an integrated sense of self identity. That is, she never learned to think of herself -- or other people -- as essentially good people who occasionally exhibit bad behavior. Instead, she will categorize everyone close to her -- as well as herself -- as "all good" or "all bad." This is done because a BPDer is too immature to handle experiencing strong conflicting feelings about herself and other people. She also will be extremely uncomfortable in trying to handle ambiguities, uncertainties, and the other gray areas of interpersonal relationships. She therefore simplifies her thinking by perceiving of all loved ones and close friends -- and herself -- as white (all good) or black (all bad). And she will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other, in just ten seconds, based on a minor comment or action. This is why, if she's a BPDer, you will often find yourself walking on eggshells around her to avoid triggering her anger.

 

Moreover, this immaturity is why a BPDer has a weak and fragile sense of who she is. To the extent a BPDer has any lasting, persistent sense of identity at all, it is the false self identity of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." As Wing explained so well (post #12), "At some point you will give her the reaction she wants that allows her to be the victim."

 

The result -- if you are dating a BPDer -- is that you will be allowed to remain in this toxic relationship only as long as you continue to play one of two roles, both of which "confirm" that she is "The Victim." One role, which you played for several months during her infatuation period, is that of "The Rescuer." As long as she believes you are rescuing her from unhappiness, the implication is that she must be "The Victim" or you wouldn't be trying so hard to save her.

 

As soon as her infatuation period starts to fade, however, she will stare perceiving you as "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of her unhappiness and every misfortune to befall her. Either way -- as rescuer or perpetrator -- you fulfill her powerful need to think of herself as "The Victim."

 

As I noted earlier in post 6, a BPDer has such a strong abandonment fear that she will mistakenly see abandonment threats in common everyday actions. Moreover, because a BPDer has such a fragile self identity, she needs to have a stable partner around at all times to provide that missing self identity. This is why BPDers HATE to be alone by themselves.

 

This flipping back and forth between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you) is an immature behavior that BPDers are notorious for doing. Like young children, they will perceive of you as "all good" for a while and then flip in seconds to perceiving of you as "all bad." When you eventually have very young children, you will find that your young daughter will adore Daddy while he's bringing out the toys -- but will instantly flip to hating Daddy when he takes one toy away. This is how all human beings behave until they have an opportunity to learn more mature emotional skills.

 

Explaining your intentions can work wonders with a mature woman who has only mild BPD traits. If her BPD traits are strong, however, all the explanation in the world won't make a dent in her behaviors. Her feelings are so intense that they distort her perceptions of your intentions and motivations. The result is that she simply will not believe your explanation and will refuse to trust you.

 

If she is a BPDer, NOTHING will work. You cannot develop a husband/wife relationship with someone so immature that she is only capable of handling a parent/child relationship.

 

wow, somehow I missed your original post but a lot of things you're saying ring true. It does feel like she plays the victim card a lot and is really insecure.

 

I only have a few minutes to respond right now but I looked at what you linked and it does ring true:

 

1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor comment or infraction; this

2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;" she does this all the time

3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;

4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude (e.g., not appreciating all the 3-hour trips you made to see her for two years) and a double standard ; this, I used to drive a long ways to see her before we moved in together

5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells; this

6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later; this

7. Low self esteem;

8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums or cold sulking that typically start in seconds and last several hours; this, we've had fights over such stupid things and she has screamed at me and called me an *******,

a jerk, and a loser, and told me that I deserve to be alone multiple times.

9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans; this

10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune; this

11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending); She has put on some weight over the last few months because she frequently binge eats

12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well; this, she says I'm the first guy who's ever treated her right and showed her how a woman should be treated.

13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"

14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;

15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;

16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);

17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and this to a minor extent, she lied to my uncle and told him she was into motor cycle racing to impress him

18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence. this, we've had fights over things like the hickey where she felt like I was rejecting all forms of affection she offered me because I didn't want one of them

[16run17]

I talked to her on the phone during a 15 minute session break tonight. I told her I only had a few minutes so we caught up and she was like do you have more time to talk and I said no I have to go and she was upset and said ok bye and hung up. I went to a company dinner and she left me a VM and made every thing sound ok again :/

[Downtown]

16run17, you recognized 12 of the 18 BPD warning signs, which means you're describing a pattern of BPD traits. I suspect, however, that there are really 14 traits you've been describing here. So I will comment on the two you may have overlooked.

 

3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members -- You've been describing irrational jealousy. Specifically, you say "If I'm texting friends she wants to know who I'm texting and what we're talking about."

 

As to isolating you away from friends and family, you say "I have almost stopped spending time with friends and family except for the times when they invite me because it seems like if I actively make plans she'll take it as avoiding her.." And you say, "[she] has kept me from keeping up with some of my closest friends who I text everyday because I feel pressure from her not to text them."

 

As to her very controlling behavior, you say "I miss a call because I was in the elevator at work and she left me a voicemail calling me an ass hole." Likewise, "She assumes and expects me to spend certain times with her without coordinating them with me first." Similarly, "We had a huge fight because I stopped at the gym before coming home." You thus seem to be describing a woman who wants to control nearly every minute of your day.

 

7. Low self esteem -- If she exhibits a strong pattern of BPD behaviors, she almost certainly has very low self esteem. Indeed, she likely has been filled with self loathing since early childhood. This low self esteem is largely what fuels her great fear of abandonment. She lives in fear that, even if you seem to be loving here at this very moment, you will eventually walk away the day you discover how empty she is on the inside. This low self esteem also gives rise to her inability to trust you. Until a BPDer learns how to trust herself, she is incapable of trust you or anyone else who draws close to her.

[Mr. Lucky]

I talked to her on the phone during a 15 minute session break tonight. I told her I only had a few minutes so we caught up and she was like do you have more time to talk and I said no I have to go and she was upset and said ok bye and hung up. I went to a company dinner and she left me a VM and made every thing sound ok again :/

 

My friend, true love simply isn't this hard . And that's because some of the facets of love are respect, consideration, accommodation and patience, all missing here. I won't pick sides but will simply point out the obviously toxic dynamic at work.

 

Could be a case of right girl, wrong time. More likely, she might be the wrong girl for anytime. Regardless, you tried, didn't work so time to move on...

 

Mr. Lucky

[d0nnivain]

I don't think this girl is mentally ill. I think she's an immature 20 year old. She probably had some hearts & flowers unrealistic vision of living together that involved 24/7 togetherness & all romance all the time with no thought to the realities of life: school, work, chores etc.

 

 

When her fantasy didn't meet reality she got upset & lashed out.

 

 

The fact that you offered a concrete constructive possible solution: the couples' counseling & she got even more mad is a very bad sign.

 

 

Two things:

 

 

When she gets nutty & starts picking a fight, don't engage. You get calmer & quieter. Do not react. This will be very hard because you will feel defensive & you will want to get your side out to feel vindicated. Just let her rant until she runs out of steam. Remain calm. Your quietness will take the wind out of her sails more quickly.

 

 

Try to talk to her when she's calm. Get her to specify concrete things she wants. Try to get her to understand that you going to stuff you don't care about when you are not excited about it is a greater act of love then you being as excited as she is about the movie, the museum or the art. You are sacrificing for her. Point out that she needs to be more appreciative of that because when she rants that you don't love her, she is actually doing to you what she is accusing you of doing to her, hurting the relationship. She also needs to learn that she has to keep relationship secrets & not blab your finances to her mother.

 

 

The reality is you probably moved in too young & moving out may be the best thing.

[elaine567]

She already told you what the problem is.

"she's 20 and should be having fun..."

 

Is I guess that is the crux of the matter, she feels torn between playing "house" and being a normal 20 year old.

She now feels trapped and is lashing out at the source of her annoyance.

[16run17]

My friend, true love simply isn't this hard . And that's because some of the facets of love are respect, consideration, accommodation and patience, all missing here. I won't pick sides but will simply point out the obviously toxic dynamic at work.

 

Could be a case of right girl, wrong time. More likely, she might be the wrong girl for anytime. Regardless, you tried, didn't work so time to move on...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Afterwards I texted back and she continued to give me the impression that everything is ok. This morning I sent her a good morning text and she replied "Honestly, I'm really frustrated and it feels like you forgot how a phone works. I'm pretty upset"

[16run17]

She already told you what the problem is.

 

 

Is I guess that is the crux of the matter, she feels torn between playing "house" and being a normal 20 year old.

She now feels trapped and is lashing out at the source of her annoyance.

 

The thing is that she doesn't have any hobbies so I've suggested a few she may be interested in and I've suggested that she try and meet up with friends more frequently and she doesn't really have interest in doing either.

 

Ww initially agreed to split chores and Ive tried to do as much as I can to make things easier for her by picking up some of her chores. She insists on doing a lot of the chores, and if I'm doing something like cleaning dishes while she's around she usually comes and takes over because "it's not [my] job" or I "don't do a good enough job", but then gets frustrated because she didn't want to clean the dishes.

[16run17]

I don't think this girl is mentally ill. I think she's an immature 20 year old. She probably had some hearts & flowers unrealistic vision of living together that involved 24/7 togetherness & all romance all the time with no thought to the realities of life: school, work, chores etc.

 

 

When her fantasy didn't meet reality she got upset & lashed out.

 

 

The fact that you offered a concrete constructive possible solution: the couples' counseling & she got even more mad is a very bad sign.

 

 

Two things:

 

 

When she gets nutty & starts picking a fight, don't engage. You get calmer & quieter. Do not react. This will be very hard because you will feel defensive & you will want to get your side out to feel vindicated. Just let her rant until she runs out of steam. Remain calm. Your quietness will take the wind out of her sails more quickly.

 

 

Try to talk to her when she's calm. Get her to specify concrete things she wants. Try to get her to understand that you going to stuff you don't care about when you are not excited about it is a greater act of love then you being as excited as she is about the movie, the museum or the art. You are sacrificing for her. Point out that she needs to be more appreciative of that because when she rants that you don't love her, she is actually doing to you what she is accusing you of doing to her, hurting the relationship. She also needs to learn that she has to keep relationship secrets & not blab your finances to her mother.

 

 

The reality is you probably moved in too young & moving out may be the best thing.

 

The times when I don't engage she usually broods for a few minutes and then either screams at me to say something or says she's going out and leaves for a few minutes.

 

We have had that talk several times, and she always says that we can't go because she feels guilty knowing I'm not excited and that I'm going to ruin it for her. We've made plans to go to the museum or go dancing and one time she cancelled (she said she wasn't feeling well but then later said that I would have just ruined it for her) and the other time she suggested doing something else and I agreed, then she ended up bringing it up she was upset that we hadn't gone in both cases and made it seem like it was my fault. I've suggested that I do these things with other friends aside from me and she insists that she only wants to do then with me.

 

I do feel crazy