constant fighting with girlfriend after moving in -- controlling/manipulation

[16run17]

16run17, you recognized 12 of the 18 BPD warning signs, which means you're describing a pattern of BPD traits. I suspect, however, that there are really 14 traits you've been describing here. So I will comment on the two you may have overlooked.

 

3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members -- You've been describing irrational jealousy. Specifically, you say "If I'm texting friends she wants to know who I'm texting and what we're talking about."

 

As to isolating you away from friends and family, you say "I have almost stopped spending time with friends and family except for the times when they invite me because it seems like if I actively make plans she'll take it as avoiding her.." And you say, "[she] has kept me from keeping up with some of my closest friends who I text everyday because I feel pressure from her not to text them."

 

As to her very controlling behavior, you say "I miss a call because I was in the elevator at work and she left me a voicemail calling me an ass hole." Likewise, "She assumes and expects me to spend certain times with her without coordinating them with me first." Similarly, "We had a huge fight because I stopped at the gym before coming home." You thus seem to be describing a woman who wants to control nearly every minute of your day.

 

7. Low self esteem -- If she exhibits a strong pattern of BPD behaviors, she almost certainly has very low self esteem. Indeed, she likely has been filled with self loathing since early childhood. This low self esteem is largely what fuels her great fear of abandonment. She lives in fear that, even if you seem to be loving here at this very moment, you will eventually walk away the day you discover how empty she is on the inside. This low self esteem also gives rise to her inability to trust you. Until a BPDer learns how to trust herself, she is incapable of trust you or anyone else who draws close to her.

 

I have told her that I felt like she was being controlling during the fight we had over the apartment decorations and she lashed out at me. She made it sound like she was just doing things out of care and made me feel guilty

 

I do believe that she has low self-esteem and has been upset at times when I've gone out with (male) friends because she is worried that I was going on dates with other women. Three separate instances where I met up with old friends from school for a few hours before coming back she was concerned that I had been with other women. I do love her and have been completely faithful the entirety of our relationship.

[Downtown]

She feels guilty knowing I'm not excited and that I'm going to ruin it for her.

If she is a BPDer, your lack of enthusiasm WILL "ruin it for her," as she says. Healthy, mature adults have strong personal boundaries and know they are responsible for their own happiness and other feelings. BPDers, however, have virtually no personal boundaries at all because they are so immature that they have a very weak, unstable, fragile sense of who they really are.

 

This means a BPDer usually cannot tell where her feelings leave off and where your feelings begin. Instead of knowing where that boundary is, a BPDer experiences feelings that are enmeshed with yours in a dysfunctional, unhealthy manner. The result is that she will be so enmeshed with you that your lack of excitement for a movie will "ruin it for her" because she won't recognize that those are YOUR feelings, not HERS.

 

Conversely, she also will fail to recognize that many of her own feelings are originating inside her own mind, not your mind. If she is feeling unhappy or fearful, for example, she will be convinced those painful feelings are coming from you -- i.e., are what you are thinking. This distorted way of thinking, which we all do occasionally to some extent, is called "projection." BPDers do it far more intensely and frequently than the rest of us.

 

Such projection will be especially evident when, despite your keeping your mouth shut to avoid triggering her anger, a BPDer nonetheless will suddenly become angry with you -- blaming you for the hurtful feeling or fearful thought she is experiencing at the moment. This means that, even when you don't say any thing or move any muscle, you nonetheless will be perceived as the cause of her unhappiness simply because you are the only person in the room with her.

 

I do feel crazy.

That's EXACTLY how you should be feeling if you've been living with a BPDer for the past four months. As I noted in post #6, of the 157 mental disorders, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be going crazy. Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will mistakenly believe that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning.

 

I also feel like she is being manipulative.

Due to their overpowering fears, BPDers tend to be extremely controlling. And sometimes they will try to be manipulative -- but they generally are not any good at it, with the result that you will see their manipulation efforts coming from a mile away. To be successful, manipulation requires careful planning and flawless execution. BPDers are terrible at the "flawless execution" part. Because they lack impulse control and cannot manage their own emotions, BPDers will quickly abandon their well-laid plans and react to whatever intense feeling they are experiencing at this very moment. Edited April 23, 2017 by Downtown

[16run17]

I missed a call and she left me a VM saying I never respond to her texts or call her back and she's still pissed and threatened to walk out but said she'll still pick me up the airport tonight.I think it's just an empty threat to manipulate me into calling. I was eating and she left me another VM saying just to call her so she can pick me up.

 

Tonight I'm going to tell her that I've loved and appreciated her but the relationship isn't something that I want to continue anymore. I don't think I can tell her the specific reasons why because she thinks that they are my fault

[16run17]

I missed a call and she left me a VM saying I never respond to her texts or call her back and she's still pissed and threatened to walk out but said she'll still pick me up the airport tonight.I think it's just an empty threat to manipulate me into calling. I was eating and she left me another VM saying just to call her so she can pick me up.

 

Tonight I'm going to tell her that I've loved and appreciated her but the relationship isn't something that I want to continue anymore. I don't think I can tell her the specific reasons why because she thinks that they are my fault

 

I just called her and she was upset that I found another ride from the airport.

I told her I didn't want her to pick me up because I didn't want to argue in the car because it wouldn't be a safe driving distraction but that we need to talk when I get home and she accused me of being manipulative and said she will be gone when I get home.

 

She was mad I didn't call her last night to argue while I was out with my coworkers and I said that I didn't know that's what you wanted when you left me a VM that made it sound like everything was ok. She said that she did it so she could get me to call back if I thought everything was ok.

 

She said she feels unappreciated and unimportant again. She accused me of avoiding talking to her, which is not true because I was the one who wanted to talk before I left and she's the one who kept saying everything was fine.

Edited April 23, 2017 by 16run17

[anduina]

Does this mean that she'll be moving out or does it mean that she will be out by the time you're home?

[16run17]

Does this mean that she'll be moving out or does it mean that she will be out by the time you're home?

She doesn't have plans, she probably means leaving and staying at her parents because she has done so in the past

[16run17]

during the flight she left me a VM where she sounded mad and said she was upset that I was avoiding her etc, then she left me another one where she sounded super OK and said that she just wants to talk and make things better and that she's not going to scream at me because she loves me etc.

 

My heart aches because I love her and I want to believe her, but given the history and the things you guys have brought to my attention I know that peace is not sustainable​

[Downtown]

My heart aches because I love her.... I know that peace is not sustainable​

Wise choice if she exhibits strong BPD traits. As I noted early, it is very painful to leave a BPDer because, due to their immaturity, it feels like you're abandoning a young sick child. The reality, however, is that you're harming her by staying if she has strong BPD traits.

 

As long as you're there with her, you will be triggering her engulfment fear when drawing close to assure her of your love. That is painful for her because it makes her feel suffocated and controlled. Yet, when you back off to give her breathing room, you will start triggering her abandonment fear. Hence, no matter what you do, you will find yourself upsetting her over and over again.

[Mr. Lucky]

My heart aches because I love her and I want to believe her, but given the history and the things you guys have brought to my attention I know that peace is not sustainable​

 

A healthy relationship complements the other things in your life, it's nurturing and sustaining. In other words, the opposite of what you're experiencing.

 

Is this your first serious relationship?

 

Mr. Lucky

[16run17]

Wise choice if she exhibits strong BPD traits. As I noted early, it is very painful to leave a BPDer because, due to their immaturity, it feels like you're abandoning a young sick child. The reality, however, is that you're harming her by staying if she has strong BPD traits.

 

As long as you're there with her, you will be triggering her engulfment fear when drawing close to assure her of your love. That is painful for her because it makes her feel suffocated and controlled. Yet, when you back off to give her breathing room, you will start triggering her abandonment fear. Hence, no matter what you do, you will find yourself upsetting her over and over again.

 

A healthy relationship complements the other things in your life, it's nurturing and sustaining. In other words, the opposite of what you're experiencing.

 

Is this your first serious relationship?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

This is my first serious relationship.

 

 

We didn't end up breaking up. I told her that I love her and I've appreciated having her in my life but that I think that we should break up. She reacted pretty calmly and told me that she didn't think that things were bad enough between us to justify giving up because the good times have been pretty great. We had a very civil discussion about how the last few fights have been much more calm, focused, and productive, even if we have still been fighting because we've both been working on the things that we've talked about. She told me that she called her mom for advice and that her mom told her how difficult it can be to argue with her and I guess her mom took my side so she said she was trying to take that into account. She begged me to give it more time and I was having a hard time arguing that the last few fights haven't been better. She ended up apologizing for not wanting to talk to me on the way to the airport when she was still upset and said that she wanted to do the couples workshop with me.

 

After we went to bed she woke me up in the middle of the night because she was worried that I was having doubts about the relationship and wanted more reassurance. We talked about how I want things to get better because I do love her but how I'm concerned that the won't and she begged me to give it more time.

 

We went back to sleep and in the morning she got up and started getting ready, then came in crying and woke me up again because she was still worried that I've been having doubts. I end up having an obsessive spike and get upset because I tell her how uncertain I feel inside because I don't know what the right thing to do is and how I'm a mess inside and she ends up reassuring me that everything can be ok as long as we keep trying.

Edited April 24, 2017 by 16run17

[Mr. Lucky]

she ends up reassuring me that everything can be ok as long as we keep trying.

 

16run17, I'll just say I hope the sex is really good . Because that's the only reason I could imagine would validate having this kind of constant drama and emotional turmoil in your life.

 

Keep posting, hope things go well. I have a feeling your story isn't over...

 

Mr. Lucky

[16run17]

16run17, I'll just say I hope the sex is really good . Because that's the only reason I could imagine would validate having this kind of constant drama and emotional turmoil in your life.

 

Keep posting, hope things go well. I have a feeling your story isn't over...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

It's not over and I don't know how to find the end.

 

everything was fine when she got home, then she completely shut down and was upset because she needed more reassurance. I tried to break up with her because obviously I can't give it to her because I haven't been able to for months and she said it wasn't true that I can't give reassurance and she just needs to know I still love her and want things to get better. I do feel like I can't give her enough reassurance because it's obviously been an issue for months at this point, and I thought moving in would be very reassuring but instead things have only gotten worse. Then said we should talk about how to make things better etc so we talked for a bit and everything seemed find again, then we had sex and then she turned around and got upset with me again and said I'm the one ruining things because I "am choosing to be unhappy" and "holding us back" when she's the one trying to improve things.

 

At this point I don't think things can get better and I feel trapped

[BettyDraper]

It's not over and I don't know how to find the end.

 

everything was fine when she got home, then she completely shut down and was upset because she needed more reassurance. I tried to break up with her because obviously I can't give it to her because I haven't been able to for months and she said it wasn't true that I can't give reassurance and she just needs to know I still love her and want things to get better. I do feel like I can't give her enough reassurance because it's obviously been an issue for months at this point, and I thought moving in would be very reassuring but instead things have only gotten worse. Then said we should talk about how to make things better etc so we talked for a bit and everything seemed find again, then we had sex and then she turned around and got upset with me again and said I'm the one ruining things because I "am choosing to be unhappy" and "holding us back" when she's the one trying to improve things.

 

At this point I don't think things can get better and I feel trapped

 

If this is how you feel, then you don't need to stay together.

A few arguments are normal as you get used to sharing a space.

This woman seems to thrive on drama and arguing. She isn't mature enough to be in a serious relationship. You come across as a very kind and caring man. Time to find someone who can appreciate that.

[16run17]

Everything I have read about breaking up with someone who exhibits bpd like traits involved going no contact. Since we live together this will be incredibly difficult and I'm not sure how to approach the situation. Fortunately I'm the only person on the lease.

 

I know she will want to stay in the 2nd bedroom until she makes other arrangements but I'm scared that she never will and will drag it out.

 

How can I initiate a conversation and make it clear that things are over? She doesn't want to listen to me any time I bring it up and try to break up with her

[NTV]

Plenty of women out there are actually fun to be around and nice to talk to. You don't want a second mom as end you don't exist to babysit her temper tantrums.

 

Ditch her before she turns up pregnant. Cause that's probably her next plan of attack for controlling you.

[Downtown]

I'm not sure how to approach the situation. Fortunately I'm the only person on the lease.

Give her till the end of the month -- a date certain -- to move out. Before discussing it, buy a VAR and keep it in your shirt pocket to record all conversations. Once you tell her she must be gone by a certain date, she may become furious and perceive you as the devil incarnate. BPDers are notorious for having their abused partners arrested on bogus charges and, because the BPDers generally BELIEVE their outrageous claims, they can be very convincing when they call 911.

 

My BPDer exW, for example, had me thrown into jail for "brutalizing" her. If your GF starts to call the police, quickly find your phone and be the first one to call. The police oftentimes are more inclined to believe the person who makes the first call. Also, you may want to consider offering her some money if she will move out a week before the date certain that you set. If she doesn't move by that date, call the police and get her escorted out.

 

Indeed, it would be good to check now with the police department and find out if you can have her escorted out in that way (the laws in your city may not permit it). If the law does not permit it (despite her not being on the lease), record her verbal tirades and seek a restraining order from the local police station. The recording will show that she is a danger. That will prevent her from returning to your apartment except when in the company of a police officer, who will watch her get her belongings.

[16run17]

I talked to her on the phone and she asked if I wanted to end things. I told her I thought it would be for the best and she's saying she'll do anything to change and is telling me to give myself a chance to be happy and to remember the good times . She pulled a 180 and asked me to go to counseling with her and calmly told me to think about it for a few days.

 

My heart is breaking because I do love her but I can't do this anymore.

 

I bought a voice recorder on the way home. I'm about to go inside but I'm already a mess.

[Downtown]

She pulled a 180 and asked me to go to counseling with her and calmly told me to think about it for a few days.

My experience is that, if she exhibits strong BPD symptoms, MC will be a total waste of time until she has had several years of individual therapy (e.g., CBT or DBT) to address her underlying issues. Until then, acquiring better communication skills -- as is taught in MC -- likely will just make her better at controlling you.

 

Moreover, even in the unlikely event she agrees to attend individual therapy -- as my exW did each week for 15 years -- it can be very difficult to determine whether she is making any lasting progress. Like smokers who are always throwing away their "last pack" every two months, BPDers typically will be seen making dramatic improvements every six to ten weeks. That's the way emotionally unstable people behave. Remember, even a roller coaster will be seen moving upward -- making dramatic gains -- half the time.

[16run17]

My experience is that, if she exhibits strong BPD symptoms, MC will be a total waste of time until she has had several years of individual therapy (e.g., CBT or DBT) to address her underlying issues. Until then, acquiring better communication skills -- as is taught in MC -- likely will just make her better at controlling you.

 

Moreover, even in the unlikely event she agrees to attend individual therapy -- as my exW did each week for 15 years -- it can be very difficult to determine whether she is making any lasting progress. Like smokers who are always throwing away their "last pack" every two months, BPDers typically will be seen making dramatic improvements every six to ten weeks. That's the way emotionally unstable people behave. Remember, even a roller coaster will be seen moving upward -- making dramatic gains -- half the time.

 

She said that at this point she wants to go to therapy for herself even if I dont' want to go with her. I told her that I hoped she would because I thought it could help her work through some of the things that have been troubling her.

 

 

When I tried to break up with her she was incredibly cool and calm about it. I was in shreds but she just kept telling me she wouldn't let me break up with her no matter how many times I said that I wanted to end things. She became incredibly sweet and reminded me of all the good times and good things between us, like our strong connection. We connected almost instantly when we met and ended up staying up talking all night for our first 4-5 dates. She kept saying that as long as there are things to work on that we can't give up, but I told her I can't keep hurting like this and she said that she wants to change and make everything better.

 

We talked pretty late and then she asked me to consider a taking a break for a few days and I finally agreed, then I went to bed. She woke me up in the middle of the night so we could keep talking about things.

 

This morning I was still feeling pretty devastated and she wouldn't leave and just kept trying to be sweet and cheer me up.

 

I still feel like things should end but it's so hard when she's being so sweet and affectionate.

Edited April 26, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[16run17]

Last night we broke up, then stayed up all night talking about the things that we could have done better. We are both still very much in love with one another but I told her that the push/pull cycles and volatility of the fighting has been hurting and been pushing me away for a while, which is something I have tried to tell her before. She admitted that she has a hard time with her emotions because a lot of things are black and white to her which is something that you guys picked up on and made me aware of. She says she wants to work on the emotional issues and learn to pick her battles when fighting, and I want to believe her because she has been doing a better job of controlling her anger the last few fights since I brought it to her attention but she still slips and screams occasionally.

 

We talked about transitioning to friends and then she asked me if we could reconsider in a few weeks after we've had some space apart. I want to believe that things can get better because I still love her deeply, but her admission of things being black and white has me scared of what the future could hold if we did get back together. The beautiful and normally sweet girl who I love so much has simultaneously been wearing me down and hurting me, even if unintentionally.

 

My heart aches and I've been feeling sick to my stomach

Edited April 27, 2017 by 16run17

[BaileyB]

I'm very sorry for your pain, but it is probably for the best. It was a very unhealthy relationship. Perhaps with time, you will gain perspective and find happiness. Best wishes.

[somanymistakes]

Is she seeking any sort of treatment for her emotional volatility?

[Whodatdog]

Please understand that you can love someone without being able to live with them. At this point its better that she move out and get help. It doesnt mean you can't keep seeing each other. Living with each other is putting way too much pressure on you. Its not giving you space from her, which you desperately need.

[lucy_in_disguise]

The thing is, she's 20. Looking back at myself at that age, it was a very confusing time in my life. College was mostly behind me, but I still had no clue what my future held. I did not know what career I would have, where I would live, all the people I would soon meet. I was also broke and stressed from financial issues. I'm not saying it's impossible to have a healthy relationship at that age, but imo a healthy relationship will support both parties continuing to grow and gain independence at this crucial time in their lives.

 

IMO twenty year olds have no business moving in together. Her volatile reactions may indicate deeper psychological problems, or it may be the symptom of someone young and confused making a bad decision and being uncomfortable with it and not knowing how to express that. If she hasn't outgrown enjoying drama and makeup sex, those could be factors too.

 

I wouldnt label her BPD just yet, but that's no reason not to run. Relationships should add to your life, not bog you down in drama and accusations. Take a long break and get some space from her, then reevaluate where she fits in your life. That means nc for a while.

[16run17]

Is she seeking any sort of treatment for her emotional volatility?

 

I guess she reached out to her mom to get help finding a therapist that takes their insurance but she isn't seeing anyone yet