Arieswoman Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 WhoKnew30 post #20 nails it here; He keeps doing this to you bc you & OW are allowing it. and I'm all about reconciliation when a couple can but in this situation, you need to let him go a 100% & then sit back & see how he behaves...that's the only way you're going to know, where he's really coming from...when he doesn't have you as a option...& in the mean time, worry about your own therapy to why you're allowing this in your life. Good luck I agree. Why are you and OW competing over this guy like two bitches fighting over a bone? Get some self respect and cut him loose. He doesn't want to save the marriage - he's had enough chances to do that. He just wants to eat cake. Now his cake supply from you is on the wane, he love-bombs you with all the flowers and chocs. Don't fall for it. Stay strong and good luck x 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mrscommited Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 The point you are missing is that HE was happy as HE was getting one committed woman at home who was loyal , honest etc and loved him AND on the side , he had another woman who f@cked his mind out with whatever he and she wanted. When he came home after being with her, he was satisfied. You gave him what she didnt but not vice versa. He wanted it all . How would you know this time ? To be honest, you cant. He can get a new phone for all you know. He was happy before the affair. Unhappy during the affair. I thought he had depression he probably did. Now he's happy again. I suppose I'm answering my own question about "how will I know?" Because each time he's gone back his mood plummeted. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mrscommited Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 WhoKnew30 post #20 nails it here; and I agree. Why are you and OW competing over this guy like two bitches fighting over a bone? Get some self respect and cut him loose. He doesn't want to save the marriage - he's had enough chances to do that. He just wants to eat cake. Now his cake supply from you is on the wane, he love-bombs you with all the flowers and chocs. Don't fall for it. Stay strong and good luck x I'm not fighting over him. I've always refused to do that. That's why I separated.if you read my original post, he's fighting for me. I'm just deciding how to respond. Link to post Share on other sites
cocorico Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 I've never done the "pick me" dance because he always decisively picks me Sorry to point it out, but no, he hasn't. Each time he's picked "both", but lied to you and pretended to pick you. If he really has picked you, he would never have resumed the A. He's just telling you what (he thinks) you want to hear. And because time proves it to be a lie, you can no longer trust what he says. Each time you catch him out he has to offer you a little more to try to convince you he's serious this time - MC, courting you, access to his phone (or at least, the phone you know about), looking for a new job.... - because he doesn't want to foreclose on his options. He doesn't want a divorce, because then *he* loses the power of choice. Right now he has two women, both of whom represent options to him. If either of you decisively dumps him, he is left with only one option - and the choice made for him may turn out over time to be not the choice he'd have wanted to make. That's not a risk he's wanting to take. It seems the OW is willing to keep providing him with that choice - so he needs to keep persuading you to do the same. He's managed three times so far, even if each time needs more effort. At some point he will run out of things to offer, and it will come down to a brutal choice - can you trust him enough not to lie to you _again_, not to betray your trust (and that of your family) _again_? Yes, people can change. But what evidence has he provided you that he has actually changed - other than words and promises (which have no currency, given his lies)? There are stories on these boards of WSs who have run up dozens of DDays, despite promising to change each time they're caught. You're only up to three (so far): you could quit while you're ahead, or into into the race for the most DDays and see if he can top those other WS... while hoping that you've had the last. Trouble is, you may never know for certain. And unless you're happy to accept that you may be sharing him (with this OW or the next), you may always feel the need to check up on him, just to be sure... The fact that he's lied to you. Repeatedly. That he didn't disclose the A willingly, and minimised when caught. That he tells you awful things about her, but returns to her.... suggest to me that he's fundamentally untrustworthy. You may have so much invested that you're willing to take the risk, but as an outsider, I'd caution against it. If he really is that serious, let him walk away, lose you and her, his job, etc., and then let him build up a new basis from which he can start trying to earn your attention, respect and trust. Making it too easy for him just lets him carry on as before. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
cocorico Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 I'm not fighting over him. I've always refused to do that. That's why I separated.if you read my original post, he's fighting for me. No he's not. He's fighting for both - to keep his options open. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mrscommited Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 Sorry to point it out, but no, he hasn't. Each time he's picked "both", but lied to you and pretended to pick you. If he really has picked you, he would never have resumed the A. He's just telling you what (he thinks) you want to hear. And because time proves it to be a lie, you can no longer trust what he says. Each time you catch him out he has to offer you a little more to try to convince you he's serious this time - MC, courting you, access to his phone (or at least, the phone you know about), looking for a new job.... - because he doesn't want to foreclose on his options. He doesn't want a divorce, because then *he* loses the power of choice. Right now he has two women, both of whom represent options to him. If either of you decisively dumps him, he is left with only one option - and the choice made for him may turn out over time to be not the choice he'd have wanted to make. That's not a risk he's wanting to take. It seems the OW is willing to keep providing him with that choice - so he needs to keep persuading you to do the same. He's managed three times so far, even if each time needs more effort. At some point he will run out of things to offer, and it will come down to a brutal choice - can you trust him enough not to lie to you _again_, not to betray your trust (and that of your family) _again_? Yes, people can change. But what evidence has he provided you that he has actually changed - other than words and promises (which have no currency, given his lies)? There are stories on these boards of WSs who have run up dozens of DDays, despite promising to change each time they're caught. You're only up to three (so far): you could quit while you're ahead, or into into the race for the most DDays and see if he can top those other WS... while hoping that you've had the last. Trouble is, you may never know for certain. And unless you're happy to accept that you may be sharing him (with this OW or the next), you may always feel the need to check up on him, just to be sure... The fact that he's lied to you. Repeatedly. That he didn't disclose the A willingly, and minimised when caught. That he tells you awful things about her, but returns to her.... suggest to me that he's fundamentally untrustworthy. You may have so much invested that you're willing to take the risk, but as an outsider, I'd caution against it. If he really is that serious, let him walk away, lose you and her, his job, etc., and then let him build up a new basis from which he can start trying to earn your attention, respect and trust. Making it too easy for him just lets him carry on as before. Yes. I do see what you mean. I'm pretty sure that each time he ends it he means it. And he's dumped her loads of times before I knew. He knows I've. Consulted a lawyer and that although I'm having contact with him, I'm not accepting him back this time. I just wonder if he'll keep it up, I'll give in, then he'll restart it. On the other hand, I know how rare it is for men to actually leave for the OW and he's had ample opportunity. Especially when I put him out. Link to post Share on other sites
BuddyX Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 "Honesty is a good value because it's something you have complete control over, it reflects reality, and it benefits others (even if it's sometimes unpleasant)" That's something your H lacks. And given his history, he'll never obtain. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Arieswoman Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 cc post 30# No he's not. He's fighting for both - to keep his options open Yup, as I said - cake-eating 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mikeylo Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Like someone pointed out -- you sound like a compassionate woman. The downside of this is that he knows that ! He knows you are kind hearted and he is playing on that. There is a possibility that he really has had a wake up call. The equal number of hits are that he is lying again. Its a gamble for you ! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Yes, that's what I've been doing. I separated and got on with the kids and work and getting better from the trauma. I don't think I've given him a platform by excluding him from the family. My predicament now is that he's saying it's all over and she's out of his system and he wants to come home. I have no intention of allowing him home at the moment. But wouldn't rule it out in the future if he proved himself. But how will I know? He's showering me with love, flowers, gifts and lots of practical help. He's desperate to book a family holiday etc. How long do I hold back and how will I know if/when it's safe? It's too soon just now for sure. He's offered to resign too. I'd quite like to downsize but the kids love their home and have been through enough. I don't think losing one salary is a good idea. And as for commenting on how others viewed our marriage. It seems relevant to me because they could see how happy and stable we were. It was obvious. If it was a crappy marriage I'd have seen this as an opportunity to walk away completely wouldn't I? Right now he's reacting and desperate. Showering you with love, flowers etc, but that's not genuine nor it is showing you that he is trustworthy. What has he actually done? Other than end it so many times with the OW/exOW? Has he sought out a therapist and in counseling so he can fix what's broken inside of him? He's selfish, addicted to the highs and lows of this affair. Doubtful it's actually about her, more about how she makes him feel when things are good between them. Until he quits his job, seeks counseling and proves to you he is trustworthy you're doing the right thing by not letting him move back home. You can't stop him from cheating, fact that everybody knows what he's done and he still chose to do it is proof he's not ready to change his behavior. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
mikeylo Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 OP, most likely he is lying. This sounds more like ' once a cheater always a cheater ' case. He is saying what he thinks you want to hear. If he wanted to prove his trustworthiness, the other woman would have vanished from town by now. He is making excuses. It's not that he loves her blah blah , he is just a guy with low morals who should be kept far far away from your daughters. Girls ( and boys) need a honorable dad not a one who is salivating over other girls. Yuck! I wonder how your girls would feel if they saw him ogling other women ! Keep them safe. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
wmacbride Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Yes and companies don't like hiring people with little to no integrity. If you can hear on your marriage you can steal office supplies and or money or whatever as it shows a lack of integrity. I'd totally fire anyone that I found out cheated and worked for me. If his wife can't trust him than neither can I I don't know if it's intergrety or butt covering. An affair between a superior and subordinate could quickly turn into claims of sexual harassment if it all goes sour ( even if it was consensual, it could involve an abuse of power, which is not acceptable) Link to post Share on other sites
wmacbride Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I'm not fighting over him. I've always refused to do that. That's why I separated.if you read my original post, he's fighting for me. I'm just deciding how to respond. Something you might want to consider... Many affairs actually need the bs to keep going. They need the us against them dynamic, as this creates a bond. Take away the bs, and what is left? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
mikeylo Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Something you might want to consider... Many affairs actually need the bs to keep going. They need the us against them dynamic, as this creates a bond. Take away the bs, and what is left? I agree. Anyways, he believes the OW is worth the risk of losing OP otherwise there wouldn't have been a reason for more than one chance. If your daughters are in their teens, keep them extra safe, along with their friends. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
aileD Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I don't know if it's intergrety or butt covering. An affair between a superior and subordinate could quickly turn into claims of sexual harassment if it all goes sour ( even if it was consensual, it could involve an abuse of power, which is not acceptable) Yes and gets a huge concern too. But even if there wasn't that dynamic I would t wanted a cheater working for me. Our marriage is supposed to be sacred and if you will cheat on that, surely you may have no problem cheating on an employer somehow 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ahurtgirl Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 (edited) Sadly, I heard my exMM telling his wife all those compliments while he would be on the phone with her while I was with him. He would hang up with her and tell me he didn't mean any of it and then would tell me how I was amazing and the best thing that ever happened to him, blah, blah, blah. Realize cheaters will say whatever they think they need to say to get the desired outcome they want. As for making sure he discontinued contact, I signed a no-contact agreement with his attorney so his wife could feel better about knowing I was no longer desiring to be with him and that we will never contact each other. However, I just found out he has established the start of a relationship with a friend of mine, so he moved on from me, and onto the next and since his wife was so focused on me, it made it easy for him to start fresh with a new AP. She has no idea there is someone new and her continued anger against me will make her blind to noticing that he has started up yet another affair. Edited April 1, 2017 by Ahurtgirl Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mrscommited Posted April 19, 2017 Author Share Posted April 19, 2017 Well, it's been almost 7 weeks since DDay3. In that time my husband has been very attentive, wishing to spend a lot of time with me. Very affectionate and has made a lot of efforts with gifts, treats, outings and jobs around the house. even taking me to the supermarket and pushing my trolley round like an old couple! (We're separated). He comes to the family home to cook, clean and garden. I have access to his phone and also track his location (though I know these things are not infallible). He sends me emails about meetings that are taking place away from his office. He insists on holding hands when we walk. He apologises constantly, expresses much remorse and takes full responsibility. He tells me he loves me and never loved her, it was all fantasy and he feels like a massive fool and a scumbag. He has started seeing a psychotherapist at my request. Some of this is the way he behaved for a week or two after dday 1 and 2 then it would tail off quite a bit when he broke NC each time. So it is notable that he has sustained it this time. It also feel much more authentic and now as "crazy" as before. I don't really feel I'm any further forward though. I know it would take trust a very long time to re emerge after what he's done and perhaps its just too soon to know. He is very keen to move back home and work on the marriage properly and I am a bit fed up of the limbo and of wasting more time. He was a great husband and dad for decades before this. What I need to take a step towards reconciliation is to KNOW that it's really over. What kind of proof have people been given or have supplied to their betrayed spouses to prove that their affair really is over? Each time he's done it I've seen really damning, cold emails to her. Last time he even got a vasectomy (OW has an only child and wants more kids) as a commitment to our family and a signal to her - he spoke very openly about it at work. But that didn't stop them getting back in touch after a while "as friends", which restarted the on-off affair of course. (They still work in the same, large, organization but not in the same department any more). Short of him taking a full page out in the national newspaper, or getting a tattoo of my name and saturating social media with it. How can I know?? I'd be grateful for any views on how others have overcome this. Thanks for reading. Link to post Share on other sites
cocorico Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 How can I know?? You can't. Even if "it is really over", he could restart it at any time, as he has before. Or start another A with someone else. You can never be certain. All you can do is trust. If, at some point, you feel secure enough to trust him, and his behaviour appears consistent with your level of trust, you might want to take the risk. Some do - and some never do. There are no guarantees and it's entirely your call whether you're willing to take that risk - and risk DDay4 - or not. There is no rush. At some point you might decide, "that's it, let's try" .... or you may never. It's your decision, on your own timeline. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BTDT2012 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Well, it's been almost 7 weeks since DDay3. In that time my husband has been very attentive, wishing to spend a lot of time with me. Very affectionate and has made a lot of efforts with gifts, treats, outings and jobs around the house. even taking me to the supermarket and pushing my trolley round like an old couple! (We're separated). He comes to the family home to cook, clean and garden. I have access to his phone and also track his location (though I know these things are not infallible). He sends me emails about meetings that are taking place away from his office. He insists on holding hands when we walk. He apologises constantly, expresses much remorse and takes full responsibility. He tells me he loves me and never loved her, it was all fantasy and he feels like a massive fool and a scumbag. He has started seeing a psychotherapist at my request. Some of this is the way he behaved for a week or two after dday 1 and 2 then it would tail off quite a bit when he broke NC each time. So it is notable that he has sustained it this time. It also feel much more authentic and now as "crazy" as before. I don't really feel I'm any further forward though. I know it would take trust a very long time to re emerge after what he's done and perhaps its just too soon to know. He is very keen to move back home and work on the marriage properly and I am a bit fed up of the limbo and of wasting more time. He was a great husband and dad for decades before this. What I need to take a step towards reconciliation is to KNOW that it's really over. What kind of proof have people been given or have supplied to their betrayed spouses to prove that their affair really is over? Each time he's done it I've seen really damning, cold emails to her. Last time he even got a vasectomy (OW has an only child and wants more kids) as a commitment to our family and a signal to her - he spoke very openly about it at work. But that didn't stop them getting back in touch after a while "as friends", which restarted the on-off affair of course. (They still work in the same, large, organization but not in the same department any more). Short of him taking a full page out in the national newspaper, or getting a tattoo of my name and saturating social media with it. How can I know?? I'd be grateful for any views on how others have overcome this. Thanks for reading. Did he find his own counselor and make his own appointments? Can you talk openly about what he has done? I haven't read the entire thread. What makes this time different than any other time? How has he proven to you that there is NC? Time, transparency and consistency. Seven weeks really isn't that long. Link to post Share on other sites
mikeylo Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 I agree. You really can't know. When he was having affair and false reconciliation, all the time you lived in a world where he was loyal to you and was trustworthy. So , he is capable of living a double life. He could become better at hiding it OR He hit his rock bottom and never in his life again he will look at another woman. The only way is to give him a chance and time. It's a huge risk for you though. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mrscommited Posted April 19, 2017 Author Share Posted April 19, 2017 Did he find his own counselor and make his own appointments? Can you talk openly about what he has done? I haven't read the entire thread. What makes this time different than any other time? How has he proven to you that there is NC? Time, transparency and consistency. Seven weeks really isn't that long. Yes he did and was keen on the idea of psychotherapy. He has always given the impression that we're talking openly but for sure there were times, and still are, when he's defensive and I feel he's minimising. I ask millions of questions and then get cross if I spot any inconsistencies. This makes him tense and clam up. It feels different this time because there's more affection and much less justification / blameshifting. There was quite a bit of that during false reconciliations. He has apologised and withdrawn all comments of that nature and said he was casting around for things to excuse his behaviour. I'd love it if he could PROVE it. But that seems impossible and that's why I can't let him back at the moment. I'm sick of limbo but scared of getting hurt all over again. True, seven weeks isn't long and I guess time will tell. I'm keen to move on with my life as it's been nearly ten months now since first DDay. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mrscommited Posted April 19, 2017 Author Share Posted April 19, 2017 You can't. Even if "it is really over", he could restart it at any time, as he has before. Or start another A with someone else. You can never be certain. All you can do is trust. If, at some point, you feel secure enough to trust him, and his behaviour appears consistent with your level of trust, you might want to take the risk. Some do - and some never do. There are no guarantees and it's entirely your call whether you're willing to take that risk - and risk DDay4 - or not. There is no rush. At some point you might decide, "that's it, let's try" .... or you may never. It's your decision, on your own timeline.[ Thanks. I think I just have to hang in and wait and try to enjoy life in the meantime. I'm lucky I have the house and the kids all to myself and he is living on very little so I have no money worries. My friends are amazing and I'm seeing much more of them. I also have a very good job with a lovely team. I'm managing to count my blessings and enjoy life after a very difficult time. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mrscommited Posted April 19, 2017 Author Share Posted April 19, 2017 I agree. You really can't know. When he was having affair and false reconciliation, all the time you lived in a world where he was loyal to you and was trustworthy. So , he is capable of living a double life. He could become better at hiding it OR He hit his rock bottom and never in his life again he will look at another woman. The only way is to give him a chance and time. It's a huge risk for you though. He certainly says he's hit rock bottom. (But he also said that in November). It is a risk. He's looking and hoping for some sign of reconciliation from me. The lease on his flat ends in 6 weeks and he wants to move home as soon as I'll allow it but that's going to be too soon. I just want PROOF but I know I won't get it. If one of them gets a new job then that would help. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mrscommited Posted April 24, 2017 Author Share Posted April 24, 2017 I've written this to my WH. You can read my full story by clicking on my stats. I thought I'd like to share it and hear your views and reactions. i haven't actually sent it yet. Still thinking things over. "I’ve been doing a lot of thinking and looking at that picture collage last night brought a few things home. After a year of lying by omission followed by a year of lying to my face about the affair and distorting facts, the main problem is that I no longer feel I know who you are. And that means I can’t trust you or myself. And I don’t think you know who you are either. You’ve spent so long acting - performing the roles both of loving husband/Dad and also star crossed lover/knight in shining armour/”hot” professor. It must have been / must be exhausting. The reality is that you have been the worst possible husband, feeding me layer after layer of lies upon lies until I don’t know which way is up and I have to take medication to function as a mother and employee. (Now I know why xxxxx, on her deathbed, still wonders whether xxx is going to get back with his other woman of over 40 years ago.) You were supposed to love and protect me to be on my team. And I’m sorry to say this, but you haven’t been a great Dad in recent years. You convinced yourself otherwise, but you were engaged not in a great romance between soul mates who were destined to be together and couldn't help themselves but a sordid, seedy, obsession, an illusion driven deliberately by two utterly selfish, flawed, immature drama queens for their own gratification no matter what the damage was to themselves and the people around them. And you chose not to stop but to keep going and keep lying until all the good stuff in your life was gone and there was no one left to hurt. (That’s assuming you have indeed stopped). As long as you kept lying to yourself about the nature of the affair you could justify going back in. You've twisted all three of us in knots of lies and manipulations. You've lied to three counsellors – painting yourself as the honest broker who made a few “mistakes” and was deeply repentant. You’ve permanently damaged the likelihood of the kids having healthy, normal, relationships in the future. And I don’t mean just romantic ones. Trusting friends, colleagues and family members will always be hard for them now. It’ll be hard for them to trust that when life is good it’s going to stay good and not come falling down around their ears without warning one day. And the fact that you've upset their last years at home, the ones they’ll remember more than the simple innocent times that they had before is very hard to forgive. In addition to the lies an gas lighting, I've had to listen to how flawed I am, how you don’t like my pyjamas, the way I initiate sex, the fact that I'm a prude (it’s true, I probably am too much of a prude to have sex in a storeroom with someone else’s husband – but who knows? There’s life in me yet). As a result I'm questioning our entire relationship and trying to work out who the real you is and whether I want a relationship with him. I'm craving authenticity now. I need some solid ground. I googled the verb “repent”. It means to “change one’s mind with regard to past (or intended) action, or conduct, on account of regret or dissatisfaction,” or to “feel regret, contrition, or compunction, for what one has done or omitted to do.” I thought you’d begun to “repent” ages ago – you spoke about it quite a lot. You convinced xxx (counsellor number 1) that you were the very model of repentance! You played a blinder there. But there was no repentance; otherwise you wouldn't have contacted her again and again. You claim you’re now 7 weeks out of the affair this time. Perhaps genuine repentance is now beginning to happen. Perhaps there’s an opportunity for us to come to a common understanding of the affair and a common view about her too – not a “nice woman” who made “mistakes” and loved you, but a messed up, conniving manipulator incapable of actual love and devoid of any human empathy. Someone who set her sights on another woman’s husband and wouldn't take no for an answer. Not because he was irresistibly hot and unhappily married but because he was her boss and it would assist her career, he was wealthy and, above all, he was foolish enough that she could manipulate him and perhaps “win” him off me. Me, your wife: her antithesis in character in every way. Because “winning” was the only way she knew how to garner a little bit of self worth. But it’s far too soon to know whether repentance has begun. And I'm only about 50% convinced you’re not still in contact with her anyway. Despite all this I think reconciliation possible. And it's still what I want, if done properly and wholeheartedly. Perhaps our chances of success hinge not on what you've done to me but about what you've done to yourself. I guess it’s time now for both of us to work out who the real you is and how you want to live your life from now on. Are you capable of living authentically - in other words in accordance with the values you purport to hold? Do you actually hold those values? Do you still think of yourself as special and different? Was your affair special and different? Things would have to be different. I know that my ability to trust has been shattered and that I'm now hyper sensitive to lies. I would never be able to tolerate the white lies and hyperbole I used to let slide The lease is up on your flat in about 5 weeks. A big question for me is whether we should work through this process this while still living apart or whether I allow you to move back in when lease is up and we take it from there. Your wife." Thanks for reading 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Furious Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 I've written this to my WH. You can read my full story by clicking on my stats. I thought I'd like to share it and hear your views and reactions. i haven't actually sent it yet. Still thinking things over. "I’ve been doing a lot of thinking and looking at that picture collage last night brought a few things home. After a year of lying by omission followed by a year of lying to my face about the affair and distorting facts, the main problem is that I no longer feel I know who you are. And that means I can’t trust you or myself. And I don’t think you know who you are either. You’ve spent so long acting - performing the roles both of loving husband/Dad and also star crossed lover/knight in shining armour/”hot” professor. It must have been / must be exhausting. The reality is that you have been the worst possible husband, feeding me layer after layer of lies upon lies until I don’t know which way is up and I have to take medication to function as a mother and employee. (Now I know why xxxxx, on her deathbed, still wonders whether xxx is going to get back with his other woman of over 40 years ago.) You were supposed to love and protect me to be on my team. And I’m sorry to say this, but you haven’t been a great Dad in recent years. You convinced yourself otherwise, but you were engaged not in a great romance between soul mates who were destined to be together and couldn't help themselves but a sordid, seedy, obsession, an illusion driven deliberately by two utterly selfish, flawed, immature drama queens for their own gratification no matter what the damage was to themselves and the people around them. And you chose not to stop but to keep going and keep lying until all the good stuff in your life was gone and there was no one left to hurt. (That’s assuming you have indeed stopped). As long as you kept lying to yourself about the nature of the affair you could justify going back in. You've twisted all three of us in knots of lies and manipulations. You've lied to three counsellors – painting yourself as the honest broker who made a few “mistakes” and was deeply repentant. You’ve permanently damaged the likelihood of the kids having healthy, normal, relationships in the future. And I don’t mean just romantic ones. Trusting friends, colleagues and family members will always be hard for them now. It’ll be hard for them to trust that when life is good it’s going to stay good and not come falling down around their ears without warning one day. And the fact that you've upset their last years at home, the ones they’ll remember more than the simple innocent times that they had before is very hard to forgive. In addition to the lies an gas lighting, I've had to listen to how flawed I am, how you don’t like my pyjamas, the way I initiate sex, the fact that I'm a prude (it’s true, I probably am too much of a prude to have sex in a storeroom with someone else’s husband – but who knows? There’s life in me yet). As a result I'm questioning our entire relationship and trying to work out who the real you is and whether I want a relationship with him. I'm craving authenticity now. I need some solid ground. I googled the verb “repent”. It means to “change one’s mind with regard to past (or intended) action, or conduct, on account of regret or dissatisfaction,” or to “feel regret, contrition, or compunction, for what one has done or omitted to do.” I thought you’d begun to “repent” ages ago – you spoke about it quite a lot. You convinced xxx (counsellor number 1) that you were the very model of repentance! You played a blinder there. But there was no repentance; otherwise you wouldn't have contacted her again and again. You claim you’re now 7 weeks out of the affair this time. Perhaps genuine repentance is now beginning to happen. Perhaps there’s an opportunity for us to come to a common understanding of the affair and a common view about her too – not a “nice woman” who made “mistakes” and loved you, but a messed up, conniving manipulator incapable of actual love and devoid of any human empathy. Someone who set her sights on another woman’s husband and wouldn't take no for an answer. Not because he was irresistibly hot and unhappily married but because he was her boss and it would assist her career, he was wealthy and, above all, he was foolish enough that she could manipulate him and perhaps “win” him off me. Me, your wife: her antithesis in character in every way. Because “winning” was the only way she knew how to garner a little bit of self worth. But it’s far too soon to know whether repentance has begun. And I'm only about 50% convinced you’re not still in contact with her anyway. Despite all this I think reconciliation possible. And it's still what I want, if done properly and wholeheartedly. Perhaps our chances of success hinge not on what you've done to me but about what you've done to yourself. I guess it’s time now for both of us to work out who the real you is and how you want to live your life from now on. Are you capable of living authentically - in other words in accordance with the values you purport to hold? Do you actually hold those values? Do you still think of yourself as special and different? Was your affair special and different? Things would have to be different. I know that my ability to trust has been shattered and that I'm now hyper sensitive to lies. I would never be able to tolerate the white lies and hyperbole I used to let slide The lease is up on your flat in about 5 weeks. A big question for me is whether we should work through this process this while still living apart or whether I allow you to move back in when lease is up and we take it from there. Your wife." Thanks for reading Gently....do not send him the letter. It's good your wrote down your feelings and that's a therapeutic exercise. Your anguish and hurt is palpable and my heart goes out to you. From your letter it clear you're intelligent and though you're hurting you concisely lay out the reality of deception you've experienced through his actions. I suggest you read your letter through a lens as if it were your daughter, or your mother, or a dear friend. Imagine what your advice would be if it were them instead of you. Now take that advice and give it to yourself instead. There's that cliche about leading a horse to the water but can't make it drink. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
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