A letter to my Wayward Husband

[anika99]

I've followed this thread for a few days now and a few things stand out to me.

 

First a little over a week ago you came back here and said it's been 7 weeks of him consistently showing you attention and remorse and that it's the longest he's ever been able to sustain this kind of turnaround. That in the past he's only managed to change his behaviour and attitude for a week or two. So you think the 7 weeks of change means something but let's not forget that he has an agenda here. He wants to move home before he has to renew his lease so he does have an ulterior motive in this. He is trying to get something out of this for himself. Pushing you on letting him move home after he's done so much damage sounds selfish and self serving to me. It's the same selfishness that got him kicked out to begin with. Seems to me that if he had understanding and empathy for your pain and your dilemma that he would not be pushing his wants on you but rather letting you take all the time you need to heal and rebuild trust. It appears that his focus is still all about himself and what he wants.

 

Secondly you say that when you have berated him in the past he curls himself into a ball and cries. Something about that behaviour really bothers me. It seems weak and spineless and childish. It's not empathy or remorse, it's self pity. If he's crying it should be because he feels your pain, not because he's hurt and feels sorry for himself. If he's remorseful he should be able to stand up and bear your pain like a man. When you are unloading your pain he should be able to look you in the eye and show empathy, understanding and patience. Not revert to some kind of baby that can't bear the consequences of his own choices.

 

Thirdly he recently said to you that if you hadn't seperated then he could have done no contact with the OW and focused on you properly. What kind of horse manure is that? Is he delusional? Does he think you are stupid? He's had his chance to focus on you properly while he was still in the home and he didn't care enough to value the chance you gave him. He didn't have the least bit of appreciation for the precious gift of reconciliation you gave him. Now he has the audacity to say the problem is that you seperated from him and he says it with a straight face? This coupled with the way he talks about the OW and tries to shift the blame for his actions onto her indicates that he still has a very long way to go before he truly gets it.

 

I'm not saying don't reconcile I'm just saying take your time, read between the lines and don't let him move back in before you feel secure and safe with him.

[Mrscommited]

Don't confuse remorse with guilt

 

They are not the same

 

Can you expand? Thanks.

[Mrscommited]

Affair maybe over but the sporadic contact isn't. He needs to put an end to it. There is a reason to maintain that contact , even if it's after one week or a month or every few months.

 

When last did you dress up for him and he took you out and you together had fun? Do you even dress up for him ? He is busy crying in self pity now but I'm sure if you recall, he was the happiest man on earth when he had you and her.

 

Take care.

 

Agreed. I can assure you I'm a very well presented professional woman!

We have had lots of nice times together. We went to a lovely restaurant lately and he took photos etc. He was keen to have a night away if we can arrange child care. I don't know what that means really though. I can't trust my instincts at all.

When he's chipper does that mean he's glad to be free of the affair and living in truth? Or does it mean he's just exchanged some loving texts with the OW and been assured of her undying love?

When he's down, is it because he's guilty about being back in touch with her and confused about the future? Or is he down because he's no longer kidding himself about justification for the affair, grieving the OW and facing what he's done and the enormity of the road back? AAARRRGGH I wish I could read his mind.

[Mrscommited]

I've followed this thread for a few days now and a few things stand out to me.

 

First a little over a week ago you came back here and said it's been 7 weeks of him consistently showing you attention and remorse and that it's the longest he's ever been able to sustain this kind of turnaround. That in the past he's only managed to change his behaviour and attitude for a week or two. So you think the 7 weeks of change means something but let's not forget that he has an agenda here. He wants to move home before he has to renew his lease so he does have an ulterior motive in this. He is trying to get something out of this for himself. Pushing you on letting him move home after he's done so much damage sounds selfish and self serving to me. It's the same selfishness that got him kicked out to begin with. Seems to me that if he had understanding and empathy for your pain and your dilemma that he would not be pushing his wants on you but rather letting you take all the time you need to heal and rebuild trust. It appears that his focus is still all about himself and what he wants.

 

Secondly you say that when you have berated him in the past he curls himself into a ball and cries. Something about that behaviour really bothers me. It seems weak and spineless and childish. It's not empathy or remorse, it's self pity. If he's crying it should be because he feels your pain, not because he's hurt and feels sorry for himself. If he's remorseful he should be able to stand up and bear your pain like a man. When you are unloading your pain he should be able to look you in the eye and show empathy, understanding and patience. Not revert to some kind of baby that can't bear the consequences of his own choices.

 

Thirdly he recently said to you that if you hadn't seperated then he could have done no contact with the OW and focused on you properly. What kind of horse manure is that? Is he delusional? Does he think you are stupid? He's had his chance to focus on you properly while he was still in the home and he didn't care enough to value the chance you gave him. He didn't have the least bit of appreciation for the precious gift of reconciliation you gave him. Now he has the audacity to say the problem is that you seperated from him and he says it with a straight face? This coupled with the way he talks about the OW and tries to shift the blame for his actions onto her indicates that he still has a very long way to go before he truly gets it.

 

I'm not saying don't reconcile I'm just saying take your time, read between the lines and don't let him move back in before you feel secure and safe with him.

 

 

He was keen to seize the moment and move back in after the last DDay but is much more circumspect now. That worries me though. I want certainty and leadership from him. And I can't help thinking that ambivalence comes from still wanting to keep his options open.

 

Some of our conversations seem to involve real empathy while others are in the self pity category I'd say.

 

You're right in everything else you say. It's far too soon to risk moving back in and I have to be patient and live with the uncertainty. His story changes all the time. E.g. He hates being in the flat, his life is ****, then the next day it's a safe haven for him and he's reluctant to make a mistake and hurt us by moving back and it not working. This just makes me think he's hedging his bets! Then I realise I'm not at all ready or sure enough to have him back so maybe I just need to put divorce and moving in off the menu and see how things go. If he really has finished with OW then we ought to naturally come together?? On the other hand I don't want to waste a moment more time or a scrap more emotion on him if he IS still messing me around.

[Mrscommited]

At least he sometimes feels bad for what he did to you and expresses regret for what he has lost with you. So many BS never even get that much from the WS.

 

As for the real empathy for you, the remorse, you may never get that. He doesn't sound capable of that. Maybe he had empathy for you in the past, or maybe was faking it in the past. Whatever, the new man you now have, is apparently incapable of even faking it for you.

 

Don't assume that with the passage of time he is going to become a different person. He may stop cheating but regardless, I think he has shown you who he really is. Believe him. Then decide if he is good enough for you or not. Even assuming he will never cheat again, this may not be the kind of person that is right for you as a partner going forward.

 

I believe that he will, when stopped, use the experience to become a better person. But I could be naive. He's seeing a therapist.

[Mrscommited]

well this actually encourages me.....

 

He REALLY has to not work anywhere near this woman....because even if he gives it his best effort...she will do her best to sabatoge him i think. He has to block her every move...and avoid her as much as possible and if he sees her he has to tell you....he has to be completely transparent....and you have to feel he is being completely honest.

 

It feels like he's doing that. He emails details of meetings if he knows he's going to be in her building. He texted as soon as he realised she'd been invited to the dinner. But of course this could all be subterfuge to throw me off the scent.

[jenkins95]

 

Originally Posted by Mrs. John Adams "Don't confuse remorse with guilt

 

They are not the same"

 

Can you expand? Thanks.

 

I'm sure Mrs JA will be back to answer this. Just jumping in in the meantime to add my own twopenneth....

 

There are cheaters who regret things and feel guilty in a selfish way... They regret getting caught, they regret their stupidity in leaving their email unlocked, they regret that THEY are now hurting, maybe had to give up their AP. They regret that they didn't meet their star crossed lover in different circumstances - how cruel that they had to meet them when already married.

 

Then there are those who feel genuine remorse for what they've done to their spouse. The one person they promised to love and protect until death parts them. The woman who now lies crying alone in her bed. In this case, the regret and guilt is focused on the BS, not the WS's own sorry self.

 

I think that's what Mrs JA was getting at and i fully agree. I'm ashamed to admit that i displayed a bit of the selfish kind of guilt soon after disclosure. But i soon got my head out of my a** and starting focusing my attention and compassion with whom it was truly deserved. I truly hope your H can do the same. His head is all over the place at the moment, but he may come round. I hope for his sake that he does this before you give up on him, as you have every right to do.

 

Good luck

[Mrs. John Adams]

Can you expand? Thanks.

 

We feel guilt when we know we have done something not acceptable.. but it does not mean we are sorry for doing it and it certainly does not mean we are remorseful

 

You have referred to your husbands remorse several times in this thread and I have tried to explain to you that he isn't.

 

His actions... prove he doesn't even have a clue what remorse is.

 

Now having said that and in his defense... most waywards don't.

It took me years and I mean years to truly understand what remorse is... and while it is hard to explain what remorse is ... it is much easier to explain what it isn't.

 

Remorse is not crying and falling in the floor exclaiming how sorry you are... remorse is not declaring I would do ANYTHING to make this sto.. I am so sorry...

 

Nope... nor remorse

 

Remorse is getting out of yourself and into your betrayed spouse. It is an action... it is being totally accountable for the pain you have caused and doing whatever it takes to lessen that pain... I would say to take it away but we all know the pain never totally goes away...

 

Your husband is guilty ... he is sorry he got caught ... he is sorry he failed ...

 

But he is also feeling sorry for himself... he is having a huge pity party in hopes that you too will feel sorry for him.

 

And as a sympathetic kind person who still lives him.. you do. That's not necessarily a bad thing... but he has got to take responsibility for what he has done and do something about it.

 

I have recommended a book for you several times... perhaps the two of you need to sit down and discuss it.

 

Let me share with you ... for years... I would ask my husband .. what do you want me to do? And every time his eyes teared up... why? Because I kept asking the wrong question.

 

I should have been asking... what can I do to help you?

 

Some might say it's the same question... but is it?

 

I simply did not get it... I was still thinking about me and not thinking about his pain and how I could help him to heal.

 

Oh... we had a good relationship... we loved each other and we had made such progress...

 

But there was something there that he was missing in me. He could not describe it... he could not tell me what it was... but something...

 

That something was remorse

 

When I read that book... I finally understood.. I wanted the same information.. I was asking it the wrong way... and each time I said what do you want me to do... it indicated to him I still did not fully understand the pain I had caused him.

 

And until he knew that I truly understood.. he was afraid. Even though I had done everything I knew to do to prove to him I would never cheat again.

 

I had cheated the first time so I proved I was capable... he needed to know that I knew his pain...

 

And that final step... that last hurdle we had to jump was my remorse. And once I understood it and was able to show him... because remorse is an action... he was able to fully forgive me for what I had done TO HIM. Not just had done... but had done it to him.

 

I hope this helps you understand a little better. What you think you are seeing as remorse is not. He is still complete self pity... and as long as he is still absorbed in self.. he cannot help you.

[Mrscommited]

Meanwhile over on her twitter page, she is posting loads of self help things about letting something go in order to move on etc. But is this an elaborate plan to throw me off scent?? I so desperately need closure so that I can move on and decide what to do next. I need to know the truth and it's driving me crazy. I change my mind every 5 mins about whether I think it's off or on. I've seen lots of brutal "it's over" messages before, returned with her mature "I hate you" but this didn't stop them rekindling.

He told me recently that OW thinks he goes crazy then comes to his senses. Of course I think he comes to his senses each Dday then loses the plot again and justifies going back in.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Meanwhile over on her twitter page, she is posting loads of self help things about letting something go in order to move on etc. But is this an elaborate plan to throw me off scent?? I so desperately need closure so that I can move on and decide what to do next. I need to know the truth and it's driving me crazy. I change my mind every 5 mins about whether I think it's off or on. I've seen lots of brutal "it's over" messages before, returned with her mature "I hate you" but this didn't stop them rekindling.

He told me recently that OW thinks he goes crazy then comes to his senses. Of course I think he comes to his senses each Dday then loses the plot again and justifies going back in.

 

Don't believe anything he tells you he said to her or she said to him. He isn't trying to throw you off... and he may not even be lying... but quite frankly.. it does not matter. The damage is done... telling you that he told her he loves you for example... too late buddy... you should have done that before you got between her legs. Every time he mentions her to you... it keeps her in the picture. You don't give a crap what she thinks about you and telling you what she thinks does not make you feel one bit better.

 

Tell him to knock off this kindergarten crap and become a big boy.

[Confused48]

Meanwhile over on her twitter page, she is posting loads of self help things about letting something go in order to move on etc. But is this an elaborate plan to throw me off scent??

 

I really, really doubt that she is posting that to throw you off. However, I know you have been to the OW/OM side of this site. You KNOW there are tons of OW's who very much want to let the MM go and move on. But then they don't. They can't follow through with it though they really would like to be able to do that.

 

If this woman is human, she is likely intending to do the right thing but going to fail. Its just the way these affairs affect human beings. Affairs suck.

[BTDT2012]

You aren't ready to have him come back. You don't have to justify your feelings. What the AP feels is irrelevant. I've been through the back and forth. It's not a fun place to be. Take your time. His actions mean more than his words.

[mikeylo]

This OW has no intention of being out of your life because he doesnt want her out. Period.He wants both you and her.

 

His head will never get cleared till this manipulative OW is around.

[Mrscommited]

I'm sure Mrs JA will be back to answer this. Just jumping in in the meantime to add my own twopenneth....

 

There are cheaters who regret things and feel guilty in a selfish way... They regret getting caught, they regret their stupidity in leaving their email unlocked, they regret that THEY are now hurting, maybe had to give up their AP. They regret that they didn't meet their star crossed lover in different circumstances - how cruel that they had to meet them when already married.

 

Then there are those who feel genuine remorse for what they've done to their spouse. The one person they promised to love and protect until death parts them. The woman who now lies crying alone in her bed. In this case, the regret and guilt is focused on the BS, not the WS's own sorry self.

 

I think that's what Mrs JA was getting at and i fully agree. I'm ashamed to admit that i displayed a bit of the selfish kind of guilt soon after disclosure. But i soon got my head out of my a** and starting focusing my attention and compassion with whom it was truly deserved. I truly hope your H can do the same. His head is all over the place at the moment, but he may come round. I hope for his sake that he does this before you give up on him, as you have every right to do.

 

Good luck

 

Thank you. I think there is a lot of the latter but there's certainly been plenty of the former. I hope it's a one way journey from now on. If he slips back, I will assume he's resumed contact.

[deadsoul]

I think instead of focusing on her twitter page and your H's actions, you ought to focus on you. What do you deserve? What do you want?

 

Your H has not shown himself worthy of you. Take care of yourself. Disregard him at this point. Find your happy, because right now, it is not with him. It needs to be with you first. All that hokey stuff you might have read about: exercise, meditation, hobbies etc.... I'm here to tell you, it works. Because I have two "jobs" right now...as Mrs. JA said, doing what my husband needs me to do to help him and doing what I need to do to fix myself. Right now BH wants me to be happy. So I'm working on finding happy and peace with myself. I'm learning how to love myself and accept myself, faults and all. It isn't an easy process and I have more bad days than good. But I feel like I'm slowly moving forward and I'm living in the NOW.

 

When you truly find your happy and your peace without him, you might find you are worth more than what his actions have shown you. Because words don't mean ****.

 

Us Cheaters are selfish beings. Otherwise we would not have hurt the ones we love most in the first place. The ones we love might end up deciding they deserve better. We have to EARN their love and respect. Is your H truly doing that for you?

[Mrscommited]

I think instead of focusing on her twitter page and your H's actions, you ought to focus on you. What do you deserve? What do you want?

 

Your H has not shown himself worthy of you. Take care of yourself. Disregard him at this point. Find your happy, because right now, it is not with him. It needs to be with you first. All that hokey stuff you might have read about: exercise, meditation, hobbies etc.... I'm here to tell you, it works. Because I have two "jobs" right now...as Mrs. JA said, doing what my husband needs me to do to help him and doing what I need to do to fix myself. Right now BH wants me to be happy. So I'm working on finding happy and peace with myself. I'm learning how to love myself and accept myself, faults and all. It isn't an easy process and I have more bad days than good. But I feel like I'm slowly moving forward and I'm living in the NOW.

 

When you truly find your happy and your peace without him, you might find you are worth more than what his actions have shown you. Because words don't mean ****.

 

Us Cheaters are selfish beings. Otherwise we would not have hurt the ones we love most in the first place. The ones we love might end up deciding they deserve better. We have to EARN their love and respect. Is your H truly doing that for you?

 

 

Thanks, i don'y think it's hokey at all. It's bee a long road for me so I've made a lot of progress with doing what pleases me, seeing friends a lot more, exercising. I'm really busy and that helps. And as each day goes by, I feel stronger and more able to go it alone. So perhaps I'm keener than ever to get on with my life and I want closure one way or another. Either both jump in or go separate ways. And neither of us want to go separate ways. But I don't yet have the trust and confidence to jump back in to the marriage.

 

We've had a great day. Lots of heartfelt calm talking. No hysterics!

 

What I really respond well to is him validating my feelings of mistrust but telling me that he's sure we can make it. And expressing remorse.

[whichwayisup]

 

What I really respond well to is him validating my feelings of mistrust but telling me that he's sure we can make it. And expressing remorse.

 

It's a good start. Build upon this and go on date nights or nice afternoon lunches.

[Mrscommited]

So we are spending a lot of quality time together and I am becoming more convinced the affair is over.

 

We hug and kiss. BUT he tells me he can't imagine sleeping together again and, although he's keen for us to go away for the weekend, he admits that he will find it awkward in the bedroom department (join the club). It's not very nice to hear that you're not desired. But is this normal behaviour for someone coming out of an affair? Or does it mean that to him I am the save normality and security and his romantic sexual self is still with the OW because the affair has never ended? Is there a transition period? How long does it last? After the first two days we had sex but his enthusiasm waned quickly. Massive red flags I know with hindsight but I didn't have a clue back then.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Mrs C, I guess the best advice you got was from Deadsoul. She should know because she has been where yor husband was?is. I think there is no point flogging a dead horse. I guess you should change your moniker to MrsUncommitted as the previous one has not served you well. As deadsoul said you need to find your happiness from within yourself and not look to your husband for it. It has been remarked by people much wiser than me that Happiness for us is not obtained from something external to us but it is a choice that we make. If you move on from your husband you will find happiness if you so choose.

 

On another note, the fact that he does not desire you romantically indicates that he considers you a friend but not a lover. If this is acceptable to you well and good but if not then it is time to cut the cord binding you to him and move on. Let him figure out what he has lost and let him forever regret his loss and his folly in not saving what should have been so precious to him. I've said this before on occasion that one does not value what one has till one has lost it. Maybe in the future your husband will realize this. There was a lady who used the moniker Tinkerbelle, whose marriage came to an end after thirty years of a happy union because of infidelity on the part of her husband. After her divorce her husband was struck by remorse and would always tell her whenever they had occasion to talk that he never imagined they would not be together till the end of their lives. However by then she had moved on and had a relationship with someone else. Guess there is a moral to that story hidden somewhere in there. If you show strength your husband will respect you and you will be in a position to call the shots in your relationship.

Whatever you decide all the very best to you. Warm wishes.

[mikeylo]

Not a WS but your everyday guy here.

 

The emotional up and down can affect libido. He could be feeling guilty. Negative feelings and emotions can bring sex down. Once your emotional bond comes back , sex should follow easily.

 

If he has any sense, he would stay focused on rebuilding trust , take you out , have fun , and let sex flow naturally.

[somanymistakes]

Over on the OW side of things people always try to tell us that a guilty WS will have wall-to-wall sex with his poor BS when he tries to reconcile, hysterical bonding and all that. But honestly I expect it's more complicated, people don't really adhere to a single script.

 

It's not proof one way or the other about what's going on with his affair, but it is a sign that he is either deeply bothered by guilt or just doesn't feel romantic attraction to you at the moment.

[Confused48]

The hysterical bonding phase of reconciliation is well know and very common. It does not mean the reconciliation is a good one but it is decidedly uncommon to have an attempt at reconciliation without hysterical bonding.

 

I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule, no doubt about that at all. By this story is filled with examples of things that would ordinarily be red flags but the OP keeps thinking maybe this time the red flags don't mean what they would in other cases.

 

OP,

 

I'd be very concerned if your H doesn't recover his desire for you very quickly. Was your love life in a bad way before the affair too? If not, then I'd be very concened about this development.

[mercy]

 

BUT he tells me he can't imagine sleeping together again

 

He actually said those exact words? What did you say?

 

This is troubling.

[Mrscommited]

He actually said those exact words? What did you say?

 

This is troubling.

 

Actually, he said he couldn't imagine sleeping in my bed because we separated a while ago. Then in another conversation he said he thought lovemaking might be awkward. Maybe he's just trying not to pressure me.

 

We had a good sex life before.

[elaine567]

Actually, he said he couldn't imagine sleeping in my bed because we separated a while ago. Then in another conversation he said he thought lovemaking might be awkward. Maybe he's just trying not to pressure me.

 

We had a good sex life before.

 

What about during the affair?